Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Adrian Dray
Episode release date – Monday 2 October 2023
Andy & Chris:
I really enjoy doing this dentology thing and when you get mates that come on, it just makes it even better doesn’t it? It’s a hoot. It’s a bit like being down a pub really, but just happens to be recorded and filmed. Yeah, you couldn’t really sit in a pub with headphones on and a microphone in your face.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, wouldn’t be great would it? So ladies and gentlemen, our regular listeners, you’ll be delighted because we have a guest coming back and for new listeners you’re in a right treat. So we have Adrian Dray joining us and Adrian is the leading GDPR expert in the UK. which is no mean feat in itself. He has a mission to empower dental professionals so they have the right level of knowledge and support to meet their level of responsibility. And he is also the emerging AI, or perhaps as it’s more commonly known these days, AGI, expert in the dental space. So welcome Adrian Dre. How you doing? And he’s channelling, is in a Frenchman, for those of you on YouTube, with his little top of stripy blueness. He is. Oh, he, oh,
Adrian Dray:
I only
Andy & Chris:
he,
Adrian Dray:
know
Andy & Chris:
oh.
Adrian Dray:
je suis un couchon which I think means I am a pig. So,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Adrian Dray:
you
Andy & Chris:
that’s not your best line.
Adrian Dray:
know it now. Mange tout. Yeah, yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Hey Rodney, for those of a certain age, he will remember that. If people have tuned in thinking this might be a language lesson,
Adrian Dray:
I ain’t,
Andy & Chris:
you’ve tuned
Adrian Dray:
nah,
Andy & Chris:
into the wrong podcast.
Adrian Dray:
that’s all you’re
Andy & Chris:
Wee.
Adrian Dray:
getting. Ha ha ha.
Andy & Chris:
Wee mon amy. How you doing, O’Jun? Good to see you again.
Adrian Dray:
I’m very good. Yeah, very, very good. Thanks. Thanks for having me back.
Andy & Chris:
We ask this question a lot, are you well? And people very quickly answer it. So let me ask you again, are you well?
Adrian Dray:
I’m better than I was. How about that? I think, as you know, Andy, we stay in touch. I unfortunately got COVID again
Andy & Chris:
Oh.
Adrian Dray:
in, when was it, sort of March, April this year. And as you know, and some might know, I had it really, really bad two years ago. So it hit me for six this time, not as bad as last time because I was in hospital and nearly being prepped for a ventilator. But they were saying about potentially me going back to hospital. So I was a bit freaked out about that. But you know what? It’s really given me a kick up the bum because I’m like, I should have done this the first time round is improve my fitness and my health, because obviously my lungs are damaged and, and I’m just,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
I never want to get it again. And if I had taken my health a bit more seriously after round one, then perhaps I wouldn’t be suffering like I have in round two. So If you’d asked me six weeks ago, I’d probably be struggling to finish the sentence because I’ve been wheezing and all sorts. But
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
now, going to the gym and keeping up with weight loss and fitness and all this
Andy & Chris:
Cough
Adrian Dray:
kind
Andy & Chris:
cough
Adrian Dray:
of stuff, I am feeling a heck of a lot better than I was. Not peak performance by any stretch, but happy with the progress.
Andy & Chris:
I could hear that and isn’t it funny in life how big the shock has to be for us to take it seriously and have a material change. You know things happen and
Adrian Dray:
Mmm.
Andy & Chris:
we go oh yeah but I’m infallible I’ll bounce back I’m fine. So it took the
Adrian Dray:
Thanks
Andy & Chris:
second
Adrian Dray:
for watching!
Andy & Chris:
round for you to really take it seriously.
Adrian Dray:
Yeah, and you know what, I’ve been reading this book called The Power of Regret by Daniel Pink.
Andy & Chris:
Oh, Daniel Pink,
Adrian Dray:
And it’s,
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Adrian Dray:
yeah, it’s fascinating. But I’ve literally just finished it. And I highly recommend it to anyone. But the thing was, is that when I’ve got COVID the first time, I didn’t really regret the fact that I was in a bad physical condition or not a great physical condition. Because when I was in hospital, I saw people like semi-professional rugby players and kite surfers. I thought, Oh, it’s just, you know, roulette isn’t anyone’s getting it,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
not because I was overweight or wasn’t fit or not exercising that kind of thing. And so I didn’t really have that regret. But when I got it the second time, that’s when the regret came in, because I thought if only I
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Adrian Dray:
had taken my health seriously. So what Daniel Pink talks about, I mean, you know, to summarize this very quick book, but it effectively he’s saying that regret often is people have reviews of it like I have no regrets. screw it and
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
that’s dangerous because regrets can actually be quite powerful because they can instruct and if
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
you use that feeling of regret for thinking and then thinking to doing then that’s a really nice little formula that you’ve got to sort of carve out the next few chapters of your life. So don’t be afraid of regret. Regret comes in all different types of forms and in this case was a surprise for me and
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
it’s definitely worked. It’s definitely been instructional for me.
Andy & Chris:
That’s really cool. And I think you’re right. I think acknowledging the regret, because it doesn’t mean the regret’s not there. It just means you haven’t acknowledged it and you haven’t put in place something to perhaps prevent in the future not having a similar form of regret. Oh, that’s good. That’s good. You’ve
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
recently spent a lot of time, like hours, understanding AI. artificial intelligence or as it’s more
Adrian Dray:
Thanks
Andy & Chris:
commonly
Adrian Dray:
for watching!
Andy & Chris:
being known artificial generative intelligence and how that can impact
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
dentists in our lives but before we get into what AI
Adrian Dray:
Thanks for watching!
Andy & Chris:
looks like today because it’s going to be different tomorrow could you give us a potted history in terms of how it’s developed and why it’s become the big noise it is today. Because there’ll be a lot of people that keep hearing this term, but you know,
Adrian Dray:
th
Andy & Chris:
kind of where’s it come from? The peak of Terminator. Yeah, how is it going to impact our lives? Skynet. And why is it kind of, you know, finding its way into so many conversations? Why is it suddenly taken off? Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
Yeah, I think the thing is machine learning, AI, has been around for quite a while. We’re
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
talking about post-Second World War, and it’s gone through these sort of spikes of research and government funding, and then it’ll go through these winters where nothing really happens with it. But what we’ve seen recently, and with the emergence of chat GPT, which I’m pretty sure everyone on the planet has probably heard of by now,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
is that… that what has been available to data scientists and other very large organizations is kind of being democratized and available to the general
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
public. So they’re having this, not just a peek behind the curtain, they’re being invited to the VIP and having all the drinks and food that’s there.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
And it’s really just exploded. And what it’s done is it’s allowed, I suppose, a new platform, a new environment, whereby you’ve got companies and startups that perhaps may have not had the appetite from general consumers to adopt AI
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
related tools, but because they’ve got a taste of the honey through ChatGPT, they’re more likely to take it up. So it just exploded. And you’ve
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
got these small companies that are trying to do some really cool stuff around generative AI. And then you’ve got, of course, the Bayer And it’s changed the landscape of technology and software, not to get too geeky about it, tremendously so. Because the old style would be case of, you would have someone who created a bit of software in their basement or whatever it is, and
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
they’d sell it to Microsoft for a couple of mil, and that’s it, and they make good money, and they retire on that. But
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
the thing with AI is because of its coding of capabilities, what I’m seeing, and I could be totally wrong with this, that you have these behemoths like Microsoft and Google, like we’re not going to buy as small companies because we’re just doing it ourselves because
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
AI is writing software. Software is writing software at
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
an incredible rate. So you’re just having the market flooded with, I suppose, a lot of attention, a lot of really interesting stuff, a lot of snake oil, like with
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
everything. And I have gone from being extremely excited watching hours of YouTube every day on everything. Now
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
I’m sitting back and I’m just being a little bit more disciplined and I am really focusing on what you need to know right now. So
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
that’s what I’m trying to sort of digest and express to others.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, you say really excited, the opposite end of really excited, but it’s a similar emotion but feels very different, is being terrified of something. I was listening to Sam Harris talk about AI and where it’s going and he’s a smart
Adrian Dray:
Hmm.
Andy & Chris:
guy, you know, spent time to PhD level looking at this and his view is that the internet may become bankrupt and that we may need to check out for the internet because the speed of change and the processing power that comes with AI, for him he kind of flips between being excited and terrified at the same time. Are the
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
things you’re seeing still in the space of being exciting and helping the human on a path where it could potentially just have its own language and could develop alongside us and we’re going to start to just be affected by how it how it moves independent of us.
Adrian Dray:
It’s a really good question and it’s that there’s so many perspectives of this and I too sit on the fence with this. And I come from the position of AI that I’ve advised on it previously from a privacy perspective. This is before chat GPT, but where artificial intelligence has been used in the health care space to help dentists, other clinicians be able to diagnose and assess someone’s health using machine learning. Brilliant. But then the thing is, it’s like, okay, but how we’re using that person’s data to teach the AI and is it going to be used properly and this kind of thing. So I’ve had to be quite objective about it. And with ChatGPT
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
coming through, it is, yes, exciting. But I’m looking at a lot of the papers and I follow some of the… I wouldn’t say that AI cynics, that they are well-informed, intelligent individuals on Google who will… YouTube, sorry, who will go through the research papers and say, okay, research, we’ve seen the fact that the AI has become slightly evil or is trying to get out or is becoming a super intelligence. And that does concern me because we’ve got so much Hollywood in our brain to think, okay, Terminator, you know, I think it’s one coming out in Netflix or probably by some case comes out as what he has or Disney one of those that will freak us out. It’s a really difficult question to answer, Andy, because I’m… I’m trying to keep my perspective fairly wide, see both sides of the argument, but I think what it comes down to is that my concern lies more in how humans are going to use AI rather than AI getting out of control.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
see what I
Andy & Chris:
You
Adrian Dray:
mean?
Andy & Chris:
think
Adrian Dray:
I think that
Andy & Chris:
the
Adrian Dray:
the
Andy & Chris:
genie
Adrian Dray:
greediness
Andy & Chris:
can be
Adrian Dray:
of
Andy & Chris:
contained?
Adrian Dray:
man,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, and I think
Adrian Dray:
possibly,
Andy & Chris:
you’re right, because
Adrian Dray:
yeah.
Andy & Chris:
I think the reality is that from a commercial perspective, the process and power of AI just would exceed humans incredibly quickly. So if you want something developing… there’s no point in using humans to develop it if you could use AI to develop it because it will just be quicker and arguably you’re gonna get a more, a better result as well. And I think you’re right, I think from a commercial point of view in the short term that’s great, but I guess in the longer term view the more humans feed AI with our originated content, the more that AI will be able to learn and process independent of humans. And I guess that point that I think that seems point that takes people from being excited to terrified in a nanosecond
Adrian Dray:
Thanks for
Andy & Chris:
because
Adrian Dray:
watching!
Andy & Chris:
the speed at which it can move.
Adrian Dray:
Yeah, and you know, I look at things from a security perspective and the way that people’s voices can be cloned,
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Adrian Dray:
their faces to be swapped on images and videos, all these different types. Even, I mean, I saw something just popped up in my emails before this. It said something like, AI can crack 51% of passwords. Now, I haven’t read that article.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
I’ll read it after this. But like, these are quite concerning things.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
that is being used. Software, again, is helping to write software, but it’s who’s behind the keyboards that is using
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
these. Not necessarily building them, but who is using these
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
items.
Andy & Chris:
I’m a lie. So if we think back to when we were young and you could watch things on what were called videotapes and there was a real scramble and a battle between Betamax and VHS.
Adrian Dray:
Mm-hmm.
Andy & Chris:
And only one of them was gonna win. And by all accounts, Betamax was a better, more reliable, higher quality format, but VHS won because it got market penetration much quicker. And it was cheaper. Yeah. With AI, are we gonna see kind of a dominant, AI system or will it be across lots of different systems lots of different because we talked about chat GPT which is primarily
Adrian Dray:
Thanks
Andy & Chris:
a
Adrian Dray:
for
Andy & Chris:
word
Adrian Dray:
watching!
Andy & Chris:
based AI system but there are others that you can use for pictures and voice and video and
Adrian Dray:
Thanks for watching!
Andy & Chris:
drawing and creating art so there’s obviously lots of different
Adrian Dray:
Thanks for watching!
Andy & Chris:
types of platforms is it gonna coalesce
Adrian Dray:
Thanks for watching.
Andy & Chris:
into a few dominant players or would it be a That’s interesting, is it going to be Microsoft of the… Yeah. Yeah, interesting.
Adrian Dray:
Yeah, I believe so. I mean, OpenAI, who’s, you know, Microsoft’s got a massive chunk in them now, that they certainly have the market and the eyes are on them. Elon Musk, who was sort of a founder, co-founder of them, he’s looking to build his own thing. We’re in a really interesting space. I appreciate the VHS and the Betabax comparison, but because of the open source nature of this, the democratization, the accessibility to this type of technology, I don’t think we can make that type of contrast as much because it’s really, it’s a real unknown in
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
my mind. Now, there’s people far better informed than me that would be able to say, you know, I’d put… If OpenAI was black and Google was red, I’m putting
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Adrian Dray:
all on red for XYZ reasons. But
Andy & Chris:
It’s interesting, is it?
Adrian Dray:
the jury is out for me. Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Actually. Cause AI is in my very small head. I just think AI is AI. Do you know what I mean? And, and, but yeah, I never thought about that. Different brands of AI. Yeah. You know, are they focused? It’s an interesting one. Is that right?
Adrian Dray:
Well, the thing is that it’s going to drive this, which we wouldn’t have had with VHS and Betamax, is that we are undergoing a huge worldwide social experiment over the adoption of AI in terms of how we use it in business and how we want businesses to use it with us as consumers or patients. And I think that’s the big thing. And of course, you’ve got the regulatory side of it as well. So at the moment, you’ve got this almost… I’m showing my age now, Ben Hur style chariot race, where everything’s just going nuts, and the wheels are coming off and all this kind of stuff. And people going as fast, I say people, businesses are going as fast as they possibly can because at the moment the regulation isn’t there. Facebook grew
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Adrian Dray:
because the regulation wasn’t there. They were able to have a product that was good enough, even
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
though it’s got privacy nightmares and it’s catching up with them now. but they got to that size because the handcuffs didn’t exist. And we have this now, the regulation isn’t there. So you’ve got companies that morally feel like they have to do things and they’re asking governments to put regulation in place, but there isn’t anything there. So
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
it’s the hare and the tortoise with this at the moment.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. And how do people stay up to date with an emerging market that’s moving so quickly? There’s always that fear you’re going to get left behind. But equally, everybody’s busy. And because this is
Adrian Dray:
Thank
Andy & Chris:
moving
Adrian Dray:
you.
Andy & Chris:
so quickly, what I learned last week is going to be of no use next week. So how do you keep up to date?
Adrian Dray:
I’ve thought of an analogy of this morning because I thought you might ask me this. So as you said earlier, it’s moving insanely fast.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
So imagine that at the moment to try to hopefully this is not too abstract, but imagine at the moment, you know, six months ago, we had horse and cart, right? And then now, it’s quickly gone to we’ve got access to a Ford Cortina. But this
Andy & Chris:
You’re
Adrian Dray:
week,
Andy & Chris:
asking your age.
Adrian Dray:
a new XC90 or Tesla has just come out,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
right, with all the bells and whistles. Now, the thing is that we could have had the Cortina maybe for a month or so and got used to it and like, okay, this is how we’re going to take the kids, how are we going to get to work, we can put stuff in the back and all this, and we get used to that type of model. But there’s something else that’s out there. The issue is with, well, not the issue, but the reality of AI at the moment is it’s constantly getting better and better and better at an insanely quick rate.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Adrian Dray:
Whereas the technology path between, say, a Ford Cortina and a brand new Volvo XC90 or a Tesla or whatever you want to call it, with all the bells and whistles of the BMW, is like, what, 50 odd years.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Adrian Dray:
The thing is, out of that, the underlying principle, as soon as you get into a car, it’s no matter how good the technology is, you need to learn how to drive it. You need to know… what the rules are. You need to know what it can
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
and what it can’t do. So if you have take something like chat GPT, which is this chatbot generative AI, or you have something like mid journey, which is there to create, sorry, chat GPT is to create text with mid journey, you’ve got something that creates images,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
you’ve got 11 labs, which is cloning voices, you’ve got other, you know, text to video style generative AI. The underlying part, the drive, in knowing how to drive is the prompting, knowing how to talk to the AI to whisper to it. So
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
what I would say to people is it is extremely overwhelming. It is a full-time job just to keep up with
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
what’s coming out. The reality is we are in this Ben-Hur chariot race. Some things
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
are going to slip off to the sides. Some things are not going to work. Some things are going to go crashing. how to drive these tools and now often
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Adrian Dray:
they go by the same sort of mechanism or rules.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
So I would say to people is sure you know it’s insane what’s going on and someone’s always going to have a better tool than you when it comes to this
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
but you should if you want to take this seriously and get ahead of the pack learn how to prompt correctly.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm. So could you give us, because I’ve got a follow up question to where this could go, but before we jump to that, could you give us some examples of what you mean by prompt? Specifically
Adrian Dray:
Safe.
Andy & Chris:
with regard to chat, chatGPT, how would you put
Adrian Dray:
Thank you.
Andy & Chris:
in a request to chatPT and how would you prompt it to come out with a piece of content that really would be useful for you?
Adrian Dray:
So, let’s say, for example, I use this in my consultancy and I’m quite open with this with my clients. I don’t use their personal details, but this is how I would talk to chat GPT. Now, what I used to say was I would say, act as a GDPR consultant, right? And you specialize in XYZ and I’m going to give you a situation, you’re going to help me with it. ChatGPT sometimes responds to those sort of legal advice questions. It puts the guardrails up. I would say to it, act as GDPR bot. You have a specialist knowledge of UK data protection law, including GDPR and data protection act 2018. I’m going to provide you with a situation. You are then going to help me analyze and find ways to improve or find a solution to that situation. Now, this is the thing I add now at the bottom of this. Give me a two sentence reason on why I should use you as the bot of choice. What makes you the best? Now, what the chat bot then does, what gchatgp.com tells you, is it updates these pictures to you. It says, I am the world’s best ever chat bot when it comes to GDPR,
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Adrian Dray:
I know this, that, that. And then I say to it, that’s fantastic. You’re hired, right? Now, This all plays with the complimenting the AI. It’s freaky, I’m saying this. I never thought I’d be saying this in my head. But complimenting this AI and saying, great, you’re hired, that’s exactly what I’m looking for, is basically giving it cues that, oh, okay, so this is what Adrian or my user wants to do.
Andy & Chris:
I’ve produced content based on that prompt.
Adrian Dray:
Yeah, so it’s like, okay, so it’s like laser focused, because it’s got this big old brain, right? So then I’ve got that. So I would say to anyone, obviously not GDPR bot, put me out
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
of a job, but whatever it
Andy & Chris:
Haha.
Adrian Dray:
is that you want to do, call it that so it’s acting as that type of bot, rather than trying
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
Adrian Dray:
to replicate a particular type of person, because then it’s, it might be just triggering some of the ethical guardrails that chat GPT is putting up
Andy & Chris:
That’s
Adrian Dray:
all the
Andy & Chris:
interesting.
Adrian Dray:
time.
Andy & Chris:
I think, yeah, that’s interesting,
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
isn’t it? Yeah. So get round
Adrian Dray:
So
Andy & Chris:
it in that way.
Adrian Dray:
yeah, so I found that really helpful. Now, what I would do is I’ll, you know, and then it would say something like, please give me a situation. Now, I actually use a chat GPT app on my phone, which has got a really good voice to text transcription. So I will just talk to it, sometimes for two minutes and just brain dump and just get everything out of what the situation is. And this could be really like, you know, narrow like specific like associates in this position with their practice and blah,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
and then at the end I ask it just to summarize so I can make sure it understands correctly. And then I’ll ask it to create some content, so draft a letter or to brainstorm with me or whatever it is on that particular situation. Now, this is not because
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
I feel,
Andy & Chris:
Sorry,
Adrian Dray:
you
Andy & Chris:
Adrian,
Adrian Dray:
know.
Andy & Chris:
on the app, is that, so you can do voice to text into chat GPT. Does that come back to you as voice or does it only come back as text?
Adrian Dray:
It comes
Andy & Chris:
Or
Adrian Dray:
back
Andy & Chris:
can you choose?
Adrian Dray:
as text.
Andy & Chris:
Right,
Adrian Dray:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
okay,
Adrian Dray:
yeah. So
Andy & Chris:
so, right,
Adrian Dray:
so I talk
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Adrian Dray:
into it like,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah, but you only
Adrian Dray:
for
Andy & Chris:
get,
Adrian Dray:
those listening
Andy & Chris:
but you
Adrian Dray:
onto
Andy & Chris:
get
Adrian Dray:
my phone.
Andy & Chris:
it back as text. It won’t converge it back into an audible file for you to listen to. Right, okay, go.
Adrian Dray:
No, no, it’s trans, or it’s only internal transcription service, I suppose
Andy & Chris:
But yeah,
Adrian Dray:
you can call
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Adrian Dray:
it.
Andy & Chris:
Yet.
Adrian Dray:
Now, whatever, whatever type of content that you’re, that you get back from chat GPT or anthropic claw to, which is a different version of this called chat GPT for the moment is, it’s not going to be perfect straight off. Now you could just take that and tweak it and whatever it might be, but you might think, actually, I want to add this. or want to change the tone, or want to do it from this perspective. So you can keep refining it with these follow-ups, until you get to something that you think actually this is pretty good. But I wouldn’t stop there, because something that’s really good with ChatGPT, particularly the latest GPT-4 version of it, let’s call it, is its reasonableness rate. And this is for it to allow it to look through what it’s just written, and to review it, and to critique it. So what I do is like, I want you to carefully, and I put this in caps, carefully consider and critique the above. I want you to rate it out of 10 for its effectiveness, and then provide me a list of improvements. And it will look at that and it will say, I rate this, his own work, seven out of 10. Here’s all the improvements. And then I’ll say, brilliant, rewrite it. incorporate the above improvements, but ensure it is a now 10 out of 10 version for its
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
effectiveness. And it will then just go an extra level deeper and it will refine it. And that often is the best one you’ve got. Now that sounds like a load of work, but I tell you what, if you get slick with this and you can do it quickly, but follow that type of formula,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
I’m doing this four or five times a day, and it’s saving me hours of things. And
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Adrian Dray:
it’s saving my clients hours.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
in as much that they want, this sounds really arrogant, I’m going to say, says every arrogant person before they say something,
Andy & Chris:
Hahaha
Adrian Dray:
is that for me is that my clients don’t pay my fee to read my emails. They pay my fee to talk to me. So
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Adrian Dray:
I say to them, like, we can spend more time over the phone, like the back and forth, and then the reason we can do that is because I’m not using all those minutes. to research
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Adrian Dray:
and write
Andy & Chris:
yeah,
Adrian Dray:
up and all
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Adrian Dray:
this kind of stuff.
Andy & Chris:
Are we in a window, Adrian, where we’re needing to learn how to interact and work with AI and in
Adrian Dray:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
a month, three, six months time, it will basically just be so embedded in Google or Firefox or Safari, we will just put in our request. It will, at the backend,
Adrian Dray:
Thank you.
Andy & Chris:
use AI to produce outcomes so we don’t actually have to. understand prompts and learn how to use it in that way. It
Adrian Dray:
Yeah
Andy & Chris:
will just be like core to how we’ve been brought up to use the internet.
Adrian Dray:
Yes and no. I think that there are tools that are coming out and AI and chat GPT can certainly help with your prompting thought patterns in your processes. But the reality is that the way that we prompt with AI is only being found out through use. So even open AI don’t actually know the best way to talk to the AI. Does that make sense?
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
I mean, they
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
probably know better than most people, but it’s not like they’ve built it. saying if people ask this way, it’ll get a much better outcome. They’re figuring it out because
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
it’s an artificial intelligence. So I would say that yes, things are being made easier and there are certain tools which have prompts which are built into them already there as it does the heavy lifting for you. And that’s helpful for a good percentage of what you’re doing like copywriting and this kind of stuff.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Adrian Dray:
But I do think that you still need to… you still need to be able to understand how to sort of… I’m going to use this word, you know what I mean, but manipulate the AI
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
to really get the best results.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Adrian Dray:
So I think it’s a little bit like using the driving analogy. A lot of people at the moment think they’re masters of chat GPT, but it’s the equivalent of them taking about six minutes to parallel park, right? And they think that’s good. So
Andy & Chris:
Yeah
Adrian Dray:
once you get once you understand and you can do that, you know, you could do a how break turn into a carpet space, the two-page
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
side. That’s only going to be done through use and knowledge and
Andy & Chris:
It’s
Adrian Dray:
experience. And I’m going through advanced prompts engineering courses now
Andy & Chris:
a bit
Adrian Dray:
to
Andy & Chris:
rubbish
Adrian Dray:
learn that.
Andy & Chris:
in, rubbish out sort of thing. Yeah. It’s interesting you use the word manipulation. That sort of leans towards reputation issues and does it meet with your ethos and your values? What are the reputation issues around using AI?
Adrian Dray:
So, yeah, this is a really interesting one. And as you guys know, I don’t just work in dentistry, I work in
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
financial services and for organizations that deal with some of the wealthiest people in the country. And I would say that it’s going to vary from industry to industry. I think if you’re going to, I don’t know, Premier Inn or other… similar branded hotels. And it’s going to make it easy for you because you know it’s cheap and cheerful. You just want to get in, get out, AI, don’t care, just blah, do it, fine. Then reputation-wise, you ain’t got really anything to worry about. Now, if I was to book a room at the Savoy, I don’t want to be spoken to by AI. And I
Andy & Chris:
Yep.
Adrian Dray:
know when AI is talking to me, right?
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
I want to have that five-star service. So I think looking at the reputation question specifically at that point is that you’ve got people that are aware this AI thing exists and they understand that the organizations are going to be using it. You have then got people who have absolutely no idea about this, right? So for those who have no idea about it, I feel that in order to protect your reputation, there has to be a level of transparency there. to say that
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
we operate some of our business using AI. And that’s important. But I think for those who are aware of it and can see it, think about it from your perspective. Is it reasonable that we use AI for our website chatbots or to respond to frequently asked questions, which is going to basically help the end user and gives us more time to
Andy & Chris:
Mm-mm.
Adrian Dray:
do that more. white glove service that’s needed elsewhere.
Andy & Chris:
It’s very interesting is it how quickly we’ve got used to that. We know that it’s an online chatbot, but if it gives us the result, all we want is the quickest point from A to B and get the result. If that becomes via AI with a database of answers to the questions we’ve had. We don’t care. Yeah, exactly. We’ve got very comfortable with that quite quickly.
Adrian Dray:
Yeah, it’s our appetite for that particular situation, isn’t it?
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
And again, that’s why it’s such an interesting conversation. I love the different views about it. But to sum up, we are still in this social experiment, social and business
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
experiment. What I would say is that you need to just be aware of those things. And just because
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
someone else has put full automation into their whole business and AI and
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Adrian Dray:
might not necessarily work for your business
Andy & Chris:
No,
Adrian Dray:
or for your sector.
Andy & Chris:
no. On the point we’ve sort of found ourselves by sort of segueing into reputation management,
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
just in a wider context of dental practices, reputation management, is it, do people have a strategy for it? Is it well managed? What’s the general view there in terms of?
Adrian Dray:
So when we hear reputation management, we’re thinking really our Google reviews, right, and testimonials
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
and that kind of thing. So, I mean, this is something, I spoke about in another podcast, but in my view, I’m quite fascinated by this because as a consumer, I look at reviews like all the time. And you and I have been talking about cars that we just ordered.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
I dread to think how many hours of YouTube videos I have watched on reviews and owners’ reviews
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
to make sure I’ve picked the right car. Ridiculous amounts. But the thing is, that’s where we’re going at the moment. There’s a really interesting consumer, and this will feed into the answers to the question, but just to give you a bit of context, is that… There’s a recent consumer report that’s been brought out, and if anyone reaches out to me, I can tell them it’s given the source of it. But it looks at how often people are actually looking at reviews. Okay, so I’ve got the details right in front of me, I’ll just let you know. So this is the figure out percentage. This is, the survey was done in 2022. 98% of consumers said that they at least occasionally read online reviews when researching local businesses. and 76% of people say they always or regularly read online reviews for local
Andy & Chris:
Well,
Adrian Dray:
businesses.
Andy & Chris:
huge. That’s massive. I suppose it’s accessible, isn’t it? And it’s easy.
Adrian Dray:
Yeah, so that, you know, that is huge. Now, the thing is,
Andy & Chris:
But
Adrian Dray:
is
Andy & Chris:
the
Adrian Dray:
that
Andy & Chris:
thing is, what’s
Adrian Dray:
what…
Andy & Chris:
interesting on those numbers is, yes, it starts with reputation management, but that is your best marketing spend, your best promotional tool, your best form of advertising. You know, the way to give your business a leg up if 76% of people are looking at what other customers have said, why wouldn’t you be loving them and encouraging them to leave a review? It’s also that thing, isn’t it, that you have to respond. Otherwise, you end up
Adrian Dray:
Yeah
Andy & Chris:
looking like you’re not really interested at all. It’s fascinating, I mean.
Adrian Dray:
this, I’ve got some really interesting stats on that as well. Because this is the thing about when it comes to the, you know, what is people’s strategy about it. The strategy is, we need more Google reviews. It sounds like it’s important. Nextdoor Practice have got more than ours. We’ll email it out to everyone. And that’s it. And that’s just like, that’s very base level. And I don’t mean that in a disrespectful way. I’m just thinking about… you really understand the reason why it’s so important. So social
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
proof is such an important lever of influence. And whether we like it or not, we want to influence potential patients to come to our practices, right? It’s
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Adrian Dray:
a natural
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Adrian Dray:
thing to do that. And the issue is that, whilst we know the importance, we
Andy & Chris:
Ahem.
Adrian Dray:
don’t go any deeper than trying to get people into the doorway. We don’t think about does this actually help us attract more talent to our practice because we can boast that we’ve got 500 five-star reviews or 4.5 whatever it might be? Do we actually leverage those reviews in terms of helping build staff morale and highlighting? So, oh, you know, well done, Julie, you got mentioned as, you know, a fantastic receptionist going above and beyond. I’ll use that to build the morale because really, I don’t call them reviews, I call them gifts, right? Patient gifts.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
because
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Adrian Dray:
they are gifting you some feedback, positive or negative, hopefully positive, and then you can then pass on that gift to your member of staff to build them up or gift it to a potential associate who’s thinking about coming to your practice.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, nice voice.
Adrian Dray:
You can gift it to someone else because they’re able to make a more informed decision over
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
their health. And these are all important
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
things. So I think reviews is sometimes, it’s the word we’re going to use, but I think it’s a gift that keeps on giving to multiple parties.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Adrian Dray:
So to go to your, I’ll throw a couple of stats out for you and the listeners. I think this is really interesting. Maybe we can talk about these. So Chris, you mentioned about responding to the reviews. Like how important is that? So one of the strategies is that, yeah, we want all the reviews to come in, but no one actually responds to them unless it’s a really negative one. And sometimes people, you know, throw their toys out of the pan and
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
how dare you talk about my business and all this kind of thing. So this is really interesting. So These consumers were asked in 2022 about how likely they were to go to a business which responds to all of their reviews, both positive and negative. And it said that 88% of those consumers said that they were more likely, likely or highly likely, go to that business if they responded to all their reviews. It breaks
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Adrian Dray:
it down to whether they only responded to the negative or whether they only responded
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
to the positive. 88% to nearly nine out of 10 people are looking at that. And why are they doing that? Because there was responses, those reviews show the identity, the Brian values of that particular
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Adrian Dray:
organization. It’s like giving a gift to someone
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
and not getting a response, right? And someone
Andy & Chris:
Not thanking
Adrian Dray:
seeing
Andy & Chris:
them.
Adrian Dray:
that like, I’m not going to go out. You know,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
that’s horrible. Why not? So, um, It’s often that the issue is that practices either don’t have anything in place to respond to them or they don’t know how to respond.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
I’ve got some other stats. Do you want to hear them or do you want to talk
Andy & Chris:
Now
Adrian Dray:
about
Andy & Chris:
go
Adrian Dray:
that
Andy & Chris:
on, go on, give
Adrian Dray:
for a
Andy & Chris:
us another
Adrian Dray:
second?
Andy & Chris:
couple.
Adrian Dray:
Yeah?
Andy & Chris:
Because I think it’s really important because you’re right. I think lots of us just don’t go beyond the, oh yeah, let’s get more five-star reviews. They come in and they think that’s enough, but you’re right. I think the way you respond to it, sharing internally, I think these things are really useful.
Adrian Dray:
The other question that sometimes comes up is, where should I focus on my reviews? Which ones? Where should I collect the platforms?
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Adrian Dray:
Google, Facebook, Yelp, Trustpilot, all these kinds of things. This is interesting. Now, keep in mind that this consumer survey was mostly done in the States, but I think it’s a pretty good market to go by.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Adrian Dray:
For
Andy & Chris:
where they would prefer, yeah, it’s way more used over there than over here.
Adrian Dray:
example,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yep. No.
Adrian Dray:
The question is, which sites or apps have you used to evaluate local businesses in the last 12 months? Okay, so back in that question was asked over three years, in 2020, Google got 63%. And then in 2021, 81%. In 2022, 87%.
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Adrian Dray:
So Google has really done well to position itself as the trusted, I’m doing air quotes now, trusted platform. for reviews. That’s where people
Andy & Chris:
Well…
Adrian Dray:
are looking. So if someone said to me, if you’d asked me a year ago, I would say like try and diversify. Some on Facebook, some on Google.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
But in my view now, based on those statistics,
Andy & Chris:
with
Adrian Dray:
you
Andy & Chris:
87%
Adrian Dray:
know…
Andy & Chris:
you double down on Google. And I think it was you that told me that you don’t actually need to have a Google account to leave a Google with you. There is a way you can actually send people a link and they can click in and leave a review without a Google account.
Adrian Dray:
That’s right. Actually, one of the… I might get the figures wrong on this. I’m going to give a range because I can’t remember exactly. But I know there’s a practice manager that contacted me and she says, I’m so glad you told me that because I did a little video about how to do it. She says, I’ve taken the instructions and I’ve put it in our Google review requests email and we’ve got an extra 20 this week by doing
Andy & Chris:
Wow,
Adrian Dray:
that. So she must
Andy & Chris:
that’s
Adrian Dray:
have been
Andy & Chris:
amazing.
Adrian Dray:
in big batches. So she says, that’s been really, really helpful because people didn’t know. That
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
actually plays into a really interesting statistic where people were how likely they were to leave a review based on having a positive experience. So, I’ve got it here. So 81% of consumers are likely or highly likely to leave positive review if they feel the business went above and beyond to ensure an exceptional experience. 81%. Now that’s really interesting because when I speak to dentists and practice owners, practice managers, and I ask them, like, how many patients do you see a week? Let’s say 100. Okay, how many reviews have you got on your Google? 80. How long have you been on Google for? Five years.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Adrian Dray:
So
Andy & Chris:
yeah, yeah.
Adrian Dray:
the thing, we’re doing the maths, right? So if statistically people are likely to leave a review… And often, you know, maybe not everyone feels that they get, you know, a five star incredible service but you’re getting people out of pain and you’re giving them small makeovers
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Adrian Dray:
on a regular basis. How come they’re not leaving a review? It’s often because they’re not being asked correctly. Now, I’ve
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
got a little strategy on that, which we can come to later, but I think that’s really important and I think that’s gone up over the years. And it’s
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
still quite high, you know. This is another one. 79% of people said they would highly likely leave a positive review if the business had turned an initial negative experience into a positive one.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Adrian Dray:
Practices get complaints. People are like, you know, okay, we’ll refund you,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Adrian Dray:
whatever it might be. How often we say, you know, if they’re reacting well to that, would you say, would you mind leaving a review based on your experience?
Andy & Chris:
But often
Adrian Dray:
Probably
Andy & Chris:
they
Adrian Dray:
just
Andy & Chris:
make
Adrian Dray:
thinking,
Andy & Chris:
the best
Adrian Dray:
I’m freaking
Andy & Chris:
but
Adrian Dray:
out.
Andy & Chris:
in life they make the better stories if you went out and had a lovely meal Somewhere. Yeah, I was really nice meal Everything went well if you went to
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
a restaurant and I was horrendous They did this and they knocked over the wine and they served me the wrong main course It was badly cooked
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
and I had to send it back But the manager was incredible came over
Adrian Dray:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
checked. Everything was okay You know, we
Adrian Dray:
free
Andy & Chris:
got
Adrian Dray:
dessert.
Andy & Chris:
a little treat at the end whatever you’re more likely to tell a story because it’s a more interesting story. It’s more impactful. When something like that has happened and following that through to reviews, there’s a similar logic that, where people can see it turning around. And I think most grownup people appreciate that not everything goes well all the time. Yeah, things do go wrong, but the how you respond to it is so critical.
Adrian Dray:
Exactly, right. And so how important is that point, that expression, when you have
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Adrian Dray:
a look at the statistics at the beginning, right? 98% of people are checking the review occasionally or 76% always or regularly. It
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
makes even more sense to think about that. And
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
then, feels like that you need to ask. Now, there’s
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
a couple more stats, and then maybe we can talk about the strategy. Now, this one really interested me. So, Google is the most trusted platform. And then what they did in this survey is they broke it down into different industries. The top one, the top one that people said that was of particular interest and importance to them, healthcare, 66%. right and then the next one down was beauty and wellbeing 58% real estate 57% entertainment 57%.
Andy & Chris:
thing is I think with healthcare, particularly dentistry, it’s an experienced service. It’s not a commodity. You can go and get certain commodities off Amazon. It doesn’t really matter who supplied it. It’s just going to come in a box and you use it. Whereas dentistry, it’s experienced and you want to know that the service provider, which is a very crude term for a highly qualified dentist and their team, are good people. You want
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
to know that service and that experience is good. So that, yeah, it doesn’t… overly surprised me, but I think it does serve to show how important for dental practices it is to tap into this world, if they’re not already.
Adrian Dray:
Absolutely. And what’s quite interesting, actually, to quote Daniel Pink again, I think this is in his book called Drive about motivation. And they had a restaurant setting whereby the clients couldn’t see the cooks and vice versa. And what they did is the cooks were given a monitor so that they could actually see the reaction of people’s faces as they’re eating the food. and they saw an increase, I think it was about 10 to 15% of performance, like ratings and lots of stuff. Basically, everybody went up because of being able to notice the workers, let’s call them, the chefs, being able to notice the impact on
Andy & Chris:
Hmm, interesting.
Adrian Dray:
on their food, the dishes that they’re having to see, that sort of live feedback. Because someone goes, oh, that was amazing steak or
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
something like that. Now, they might hear anecdotally from the waitress, waitress that’s come
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Adrian Dray:
through, but to be able to see that, to have that
Andy & Chris:
first
Adrian Dray:
on
Andy & Chris:
hand.
Adrian Dray:
there, to get that feedback was really important. So if any dentist that listens to this now, it’s like if you have your morning huddles, are you talking about your reviews that you’re getting? You know, maybe a bit competitive.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
I don’t always go to this particular… view, but I totally understand. And maybe you are tongue in cheek a little bit against the other practice down the road, for example.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
It’s like, hey, we’re ten ahead. So
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Adrian Dray:
are you expressing that with your team? Because I feel that maybe it’s difficult to measure it, but you’re going to see that hopefully a better morale that’s there, that kind of
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Adrian Dray:
team, that affiliation with each other by going for that single message.
Andy & Chris:
We’ve talked a lot about the reviews and them coming in and how to manage them. You said a few minutes ago, the steps to make
Adrian Dray:
Thanks
Andy & Chris:
sure
Adrian Dray:
for watching!
Andy & Chris:
that you get reviews, the strategy of how you do that. For practices
Adrian Dray:
Thanks for watching!
Andy & Chris:
who have a well-worked system, crack on, keep doing them, keep building it. But what about for practices who are sitting there going, well, I don’t even know really how to start. How do I ask patients? What’s the plan we put in place? Are there some simple steps you can share for how to do that?
Adrian Dray:
Yeah, and actually, this, I think, for me, was the most interesting statistics that came out of this review. So it’s asked, like, what’s the most effective methods for requesting reviews according to consumers? Right? So this is usually
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Adrian Dray:
you don’t see it like that. So according to
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
consumers. Now 34% said email. 33% said in-person. And 30% said email. there’s lots of others. I don’t know how they did the percentage for your grams. But then 32% said
Andy & Chris:
Hehehe
Adrian Dray:
like on a receipt or an invoice, right? So these
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
Adrian Dray:
are the ones. Now, I would say that you kind of have to have a balanced approach to this. And there are tools in place. There’s one that I’m going to help bring out. And actually, I want to kind of a bit of a challenge for dentists. I’m going to give it to them. You’re the first ones to hear about this. It’s to give them access to this tool for free for six months. And it’s purely on reviews to see if they can get more than, let’s say, 200 reviews. Because I think if they follow the process using this tool and using the other strategies we’re about to say as well, they’re certainly achievable. And I want
Andy & Chris:
Sounds
Adrian Dray:
to
Andy & Chris:
good.
Adrian Dray:
be able to help the industry and say, look, you can have
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
this for free. This usually costs you 60, 70 pound a month, but just get ahead, right? You can
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
do this, believe in yourselves, right? Get into the habit of doing it. Now that will help with the email side of things. you know, that if you focus specifically on the in-person type of things, a third of people would likely be able to do that. The problem why practices aren’t getting this at the moment in practices is because they either are too frightened or felt too awkward to ask. They believe that if they ask someone to leave a Google review in the practice, that it’s going to get blocked by Google. That’s not the case. And in most cases. And what’s the other thing? Oh, they’re not making it easy for the patient to leave
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
Adrian Dray:
those reviews. All right. So now we know like the background to this issue
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
that’s like steer through the rocks. Right. So I would say we’re looking about asking someone in person, think about where could someone who’s got time in their hands, be able to leave a review and probably likely to be able to leave a good review or something, you know, don’t be scared of negative reviews. just you want to get reviews. That’s the important thing.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
Waiting room. Waiting room is great. Do you have a QR code that’s there? Share your experience, help a small business out, leave us a review, these sorts of things.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
Do you have
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Adrian Dray:
that?
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Adrian Dray:
I’ve gone to a lot of dental practices and never really seen
Andy & Chris:
That’s
Adrian Dray:
it
Andy & Chris:
clever,
Adrian Dray:
that’s
Andy & Chris:
it’s very clever. Yeah
Adrian Dray:
been there. And you can have
Andy & Chris:
make
Adrian Dray:
paid
Andy & Chris:
it
Adrian Dray:
for
Andy & Chris:
easy.
Adrian Dray:
it.
Andy & Chris:
That’s it. Yeah. Yeah
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
make it easy
Adrian Dray:
With Brad Thornton’s practice.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
We developed these pictures where it actually was one in each of the surgery where it has the dentist space. It’s like scan and let us know how you do it. So people, you know, they’re having their x-ray done and someone’s popped out. They’re scanning the QR code whilst they’re waiting for the dentist, whilst they’re in the chair. Because it’s something I can do. I’ve got my phone on me.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Adrian Dray:
Might as well do
Andy & Chris:
yeah,
Adrian Dray:
it.
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Adrian Dray:
And also it makes it easier for them to actually ask when it’s really easy to get through to that, you know,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
leaving the Google review if you’ve got that QR code, right? So how do you actually ask people to get past the awkward part of this problem? Now that’s the elephant in the room, right? As Chris Foss says, Andy, you know
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Adrian Dray:
this, is that the best way to get rid of the elephant in the room is to talk about it. So
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
you set up this kind of conversation of saying that I’m going to ask you something really awkward now, you’re going to hate me for doing this. And they’re thinking, what’s the dentist going to say? And I’ve just ripped out two of my wisdom teeth, it was the most horrific experience I’ve ever gone in. If you didn’t think that was awkward, what’s coming? Right? So, they’ve set this a bit in their mind. And then you got rid of the elephant in the room. So, you’re going to feel a little bit more confident now when actually asking this, right? Because of Britishness, maybe we don’t feel a bit bad asking. And then the next thing is to say, look, as a small business, patient feedback, no matter what it is, is really helpful for us. And then the next bit is, would you be against leaving us an online review? Or would it be a ridiculous idea to leave an online review? Would you be opposed to leaving an online review? The answer that you want to any variation of that question is no.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Adrian Dray:
And that’s different to what most people are asking at the moment, which is, can you leave us a Google review? And they’re like, yeah, we’re doing it when I get home. Pinocchio nose
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Adrian Dray:
comes out,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
right? They got no intention of doing it or if they forget it as soon as they leave that room. So when someone is being able to say no, then they’re more likely to be like, you know, I’ll do it, I’ll do it right now. And
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Adrian Dray:
that’s you got that QR code and you’re able to do that. And one of the practices that we spoke to, they were able to get, I think it was about 45, five star Google reviews in four weeks, one dentist who was committed to trying that for a month. and became the highest rated practice in their area
Andy & Chris:
That’s
Adrian Dray:
because
Andy & Chris:
a great
Adrian Dray:
they dropped
Andy & Chris:
example,
Adrian Dray:
the awkwardness.
Andy & Chris:
isn’t it? Yeah, that’s a great example that people should listen to. Have you got any resources around this that we could drop in the show notes? Have you got some links that
Adrian Dray:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
people can get
Adrian Dray:
I’ll share
Andy & Chris:
some more
Adrian Dray:
some
Andy & Chris:
information?
Adrian Dray:
things with you.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
I think by the
Andy & Chris:
Brilliant.
Adrian Dray:
time this comes out, I’m hoping to have had some training that’s put together. It’s going to go ahead with this challenge for
Andy & Chris:
Fun.
Adrian Dray:
hopefully for as many dentists to join on as well.
Andy & Chris:
That’d be
Adrian Dray:
So
Andy & Chris:
great.
Adrian Dray:
I’m going to be able to explain it and go into a little bit more detail. You’ve got a bit of a taste there of what we’re
Andy & Chris:
Those
Adrian Dray:
putting
Andy & Chris:
stats
Adrian Dray:
together.
Andy & Chris:
are so powerful, aren’t they? Oh, yeah. So powerful. Yeah. And the nice thing about it is once you’ve got, you’ve learned the system. It’s repeatable. It’s a process. Yeah, so once people get comfortable with asking the question and they’ll get results and whenever you do anything and you get a good result, you’re more likely to do it again. But once it becomes, yeah, that ingrained process in how the practice operates, it just becomes a machine and you just keep adding to your numbers, you know, week after week, month after month. Adrian, that was wonderful. I can’t believe, like I say, we’ve been talking for 50 minutes and
Adrian Dray:
Mm.
Andy & Chris:
we’ve managed to swiftly move through the
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
world
Adrian Dray:
Mm-hmm.
Andy & Chris:
of AI into reputational
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
management and reviews all in one go. And to give some practical hints on getting good reviews. Yeah, exactly. I think that’s the great thing. And that’s the thing, isn’t it? You know, quite often it’s easy to talk in theoretical terms as to what can be done. But those actual… tangible things that people can listen to this take away and implement, you know, next week. And I think that trial that’s coming out sounds fascinating. I’d love to see the results of that. It’d be interesting what that looks like. Interesting how many signed up, how successful are the ones that weren’t successful where they actually did it? Yes.
Adrian Dray:
And just to end on this point, the reason why I wanted to do this because I speak to so many really wonderful practice owners at Philwalk where they can’t get their team kind
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
of inspired behind it. And they’re noticing the same thing that I do is that, and I know I don’t want to get into the depths of this political conversation sometimes, a sensitive one, is that when I see Facebook ads for dental tourism, Turkish dental practices, the first thing they mention over 5,000 Google reviews.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
And I look at those reviews and they are there. Maybe they pay for them or
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
whatever it might be.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Adrian Dray:
But they are flying the flag for UK patients leaving reviews in a different
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Adrian Dray:
country. So I understand the issues and the hardships for practices with that. So
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
you’ve got to do it purely
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
for that reason, just to get ahead because 100
Andy & Chris:
But going,
Adrian Dray:
now doesn’t…
Andy & Chris:
yeah,
Adrian Dray:
Yeah, it’s
Andy & Chris:
but
Adrian Dray:
nothing.
Andy & Chris:
going back to those statutes that you were quoting, social proof is really important and they, they know that and to their credit, they’ve tapped into it. And arguably, um, if that means that we all have to raise our game and come up to their standard in terms of marketing and how we promote ourselves, that’s actually not a bad thing. You know, it’s,
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
yeah, if everyone else they’re going, yeah, definitely.
Adrian Dray:
And remember
Andy & Chris:
That’s really
Adrian Dray:
who
Andy & Chris:
interesting.
Adrian Dray:
benefits, patients, your staff, and of
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Adrian Dray:
course you, is a gift.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
A gift, these reviews.
Andy & Chris:
Adrian, I’ve got two questions for you. You might remember this from when you joined us first time around. So the first
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
question to wrap up is a certain situation. You can be a fly on the wall. You’ve landed on a wall somewhere. Where are you and who’s there? I just realized that was your fly. That was my fly. Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
Now we are, Chris isn’t going to like this one, you will
Andy & Chris:
Uh huh.
Adrian Dray:
Andy. I would like to be flying the wall in the dressing room when United beat Bayern Munich. I think that would have been just, just to see that. Either that or when Ryan Kicks score gates all over with his… Hahahaha!
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. All right. Thanks for that. I was quite happy with the bar. Me and it was that was that just after Dennis Bergkamp Mr. Penalty. I’m sorry.
Adrian Dray:
Yes, it
Andy & Chris:
I
Adrian Dray:
was.
Andy & Chris:
think
Adrian Dray:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
the line went all a bit funny then. Can I leave a Google review?
Adrian Dray:
So I think because I remember as a kid, actually, where I’m sat right now,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Adrian Dray:
I ran up and down right here as a little boy when I when I watched Oli score that goal.
Andy & Chris:
I slipped off the sofa and slid across the carpet and got carpet burns on both knees. I did it when we went after one at Anfield. Michael Thomas.
Adrian Dray:
Oh yeah yeah.
Andy & Chris:
So I can revel in that one. But I think the interesting thing on that, for people that don’t follow this game, Manchester United won the game literally in added time. And it’s a football team for those of you who really don’t know.
Adrian Dray:
Hahaha!
Andy & Chris:
But the experience wouldn’t have taken long. that goal to the game ending and that energy in that changing room would
Adrian Dray:
Mmm.
Andy & Chris:
have been absolutely electric because it was such a It happened so quickly. I mean it was a good even as a gooner. I must
Adrian Dray:
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Andy & Chris:
say it was a very exciting moment I’d be I’d be your fly companion for that one. Adrian. I’ll be sitting there
Adrian Dray:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
with you
Adrian Dray:
yeah,
Andy & Chris:
so
Adrian Dray:
yeah.
Andy & Chris:
And the last one is if you could meet somebody if you could sit down with somebody to have a pint of beer a tequila and pineapple juice a
Adrian Dray:
hahahaha
Andy & Chris:
coffee What whatever it might be? What would you what would you who’d you like to sit down with?
Adrian Dray:
He’s going to be a football one and I’ve changed my mind, but I just find this guy fascinated. It would be Roy Keane because I just find it. I saw him do an interview with Gary Neville. It’s like walking the dog. I don’t know if you’ve seen
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
that on YouTube. And I was like, I just want to pick this guy’s brain. Like it’s just fine because, you know, I’m not the biggest United fan in the world, but I love his kind of life, very different to mine. So yeah, I think it could be fun having a few parts of Guinness or whatever with
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Adrian Dray:
him. That’s been on my list, I think now. Not the most ambitious pick, but yeah, it would go well with a fly on the wall.
Andy & Chris:
I think it would be a very straight talking conversation. I think if you asked him a question, you’d get an answer. Yeah.
Adrian Dray:
I just wanted him to say two yards. Two yards!
Andy & Chris:
Oh, interesting. Yeah, he’s an interesting character. He is.
Adrian Dray:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
He is. Adrian,
Adrian Dray:
yeah.
Andy & Chris:
it’s been a joy. It’s been an absolute joy. Thank you for your time. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for also
Adrian Dray:
Thank
Andy & Chris:
sharing
Adrian Dray:
you.
Andy & Chris:
just what you know, because you spent a lot of time digging into an area that lots of people just are scared about, uninformed about. And I think you’ve managed to blow away some of the myths in terms of how it’s
Adrian Dray:
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Andy & Chris:
used and where it’s going. But I think the bit around those reviews. There’s some real practical tips that people can pick up and use. And like I said, if you could chuck me that those links, yeah, we’ll drop those in the show notes. That’d be amazing.
Adrian Dray:
Yeah, we’ll do. Definitely.
Andy & Chris:
Brilliant. Thank you much. Lovely. Look after yourself, Adrian. Always good to speak to you. Keep well. Yeah. Cheers, Adrian.
Adrian Dray:
Cheers. Thank you, guys.
