Dentology Podcast with Chris Baker

Transcript from Dentology Podcast with Chris Baker

Episode release date – Monday 24 April 2023

andy___chris:
So again we sit here podcast recording. I love them. I love them, Great dentology Don’t love it. listening to people tell their stories, We are just facilitates. We are just that and today we are lucky. we are very, very fortunate. We’ve got a very, very well known character across a dental profession. He’s the founder of Corona marketing, especially market agency and dentistry, A keen quizzer, and actually a well known fixing dentistry and all Good blow come Chris Baker. How are you,

chris_baker:
Yeah,

andy___chris:
O R Baker?

chris_baker:
I guys. Yeah, I’m very well. Thank you guys. you will.

andy___chris:
Yeah, very very. Yeah, we enjoy doing this. To be honest with, It’s really good fun. You know, we get to speak to people all across the profession. Some we know some, we don’t. We know you very well, so it’s like chatting to a friend, which is quite other people we’ve never met before we get to talk to them, But there’s always interesting stuff that comes. Even though we know people well, we quite often find things that we didn’t know about. It’s quite interesting. fascinating stuff. We haven’t got a point in our hand. Yeah, that’s good. It’s good as an opener. Chris. You’ve been on both the chaise and Master Mind, which clearly is a great qualification with Ize master mind music Is

chris_baker:
Yes, it

andy___chris:
I

chris_baker:
is the most of

andy___chris:
think

chris_baker:
my music.

andy___chris:
it is

chris_baker:
Yeah, that’s true. That’s true.

andy___chris:
Anyway. So I blew opporuniso. You obviously need the ability to retain enormous amount of information which I’m sure has varying usefulness. Have you? have you just got a photographic memory? How does that work? How do you get good at being a good quizzer and just butt in before you ask that question? Because everyone will be asking what was your Master Minds subject? There’s a story that goes with excellent,

chris_baker:
Is this story

andy___chris:
Excellent,

chris_baker:
Just so? When you, for those who haven’t done this when you do as you need to provide four specialist subjects.

andy___chris:
Four specialist

chris_baker:
The reason

andy___chris:
subjects.

chris_baker:
being is If you,

andy___chris:
It gets worse.

chris_baker:
if you got through one, you need three and they one in reserve. So you do first round final Fin,

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
and then on one in reserve. Unfortunately, what they did with me is they on me back up. So I had had a production meeting that went through and discuss it on Was going to find out whether successful when I was actually on holiday in Spain, when they rang me up and said, Right, good news. we want you, but we don’t want any of you specialist subjects. so they said, I remember. Yes, minister, someone,

andy___chris:
Oh,

chris_baker:
someone was already doing it because it’s a classic.

andy___chris:
Yep.

chris_baker:
I wanted to do something on many, King, I think might be Henry the second, but they had someone else covering the clan, so they weren’t in on doing that either. I

andy___chris:
Uh,

chris_baker:
wanted to do something on Susan Vaga. There wasn’t enough evidence for that

andy___chris:
Okay,

chris_baker:
guy the galaxy. Some one had beaten me to it again, so

andy___chris:
Wow,

chris_baker:
I had to come up with four special subjects in about six days.

andy___chris:
Oh, my goodness,

chris_baker:
Go back to them and then they said Yeah, they’re great, and then obviously the first one which was General elections nine. So

andy___chris:
Flirt. how, Chris. how do you? Because I mean, there are lots of people on here that have watched. Listen to listening to this that have watched Master Mind. There are lots of they won’t, But there’s a general knowledge round. and then there’s your specialist subject, and by virtue of being a specialist subject, they go quite deep in terms of what they ask you. How do you go from just offering titles and subjects to the knowing enough about it to do well On master mind, what? what was the process you go through to retain information at that depth so quickly?

chris_baker:
It’s a fair question. I took a day a week, actually, for about five months from every Friday after work on it. You may or may not be aware. Hopefully lot, because our normal people. but after every general election there is a book released by the Oxford University Press that looks at the trends, The wings all the information,

andy___chris:
No

chris_baker:
and that’s that’s happened since nineteen forty five. The guy

andy___chris:
Flip.

chris_baker:
who set up died literally just over Christmas. He was about ninety nine, and the

andy___chris:
Writing

chris_baker:
guy set

andy___chris:
it.

chris_baker:
it up

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
so

andy___chris:
Flip.

chris_baker:
Basically for five months there is not you can imagine. I’ve watched every B C Election night cover since nineteen seventy. In all of it all night, I’ve

andy___chris:
Wow,

chris_baker:
watched all of those and then I’ve read these books and gone through, but I think it’s also the thing, The reason I’m not a bad quizerisbecause. You have to know the type of question that they’re likely to ask you. They’re going to be interested. You have to have in your brain, you have to have an aten for what they like to ask me. Why they’re not going to just ask you any old. Sat? There has to be a reason Why they’re gonna ask you. You kind of

andy___chris:
Right,

chris_baker:
a thinkthe’r for instancy. First question on Master General. The reason there was a general action was there was confience. lost it. and the reason they lost it is because one guy was in hospital And you probably actually, maybe you’re not old enough to rembecueits, Late seventies, but they were busting

andy___chris:
Chris, would be,

chris_baker:
grass. In the last Events they were

andy___chris:
To be honest, I wasn’t very interested

chris_baker:
were

andy___chris:
in the laity politics. I think I probably had other things

chris_baker:
Well, well,

andy___chris:
on my

chris_baker:
I hope

andy___chris:
mind.

chris_baker:
so, but they were bustling laboring pace back and forth just to make a majority. Every time the vote, this guy called Elfrdrowas, Really, we can’t bring him down to the house, though it, because that was his name and that was the first question. who, as the guy who couldn’t make it The,

andy___chris:
Oh wow,

chris_baker:
and I could just tell that because that’s what I would ask it.

andy___chris:
It’s interest in what you say. That as listening to piece he weekend, Matthew Side was talking about cross words and how people think, and he says that Apparently the Times Cross word, there’s only five setters or the Science Cross word, and lots of the people who really specialized when they read the first question, they know they know who the setter was and they know what sort of questions are going to be asked, And they were saying that those sort of people like yourself, Chris would have been great blecly in terms of code breakers In the in the days when we were trying to find out what was going on with that enigma machine. You know that thing that you said about you know, understanding why they would be asking the question. And then that takes you closer to the sort of information you need to learn for the answers.

chris_baker:
Yeah, I mean, I have a next girl to the garden Cross, and absolutely would go straight away as to which the cross. just,

andy___chris:
Wow,

chris_baker:
They have a style to you to you or me. It might be the diferenenoasis and blryoulike, that it’s the same for cross,

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
but but I’m I’m not sure. I’m not a great cross word. Actually, my partner is, I’m pretty poor, but yeah, I think I think I’m pretty good at getting into the minds of people why they might think, and I think if you do enough cases over the years, you get to know

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
You’re going to ask that I know what you’re asking. That

andy___chris:
What was more fun to do, Master Mind or the chase? Was it the chase

chris_baker:
Fun the chase by a long way, masmindisthe,

andy___chris:
Right?

chris_baker:
most frightened I’ve ever been in my life. Actually,

andy___chris:
I imagine it’s quite intense. You sort of

chris_baker:
it

andy___chris:
like

chris_baker:
is, and it wasn’t the question. I’ve done my stuff. I knew Ud be all right once he. just

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
it’s the build up. Make the build up scare meant to be a bit right, and you sit in the chair And

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
so that was terrifying. as the chase. I was more relaxed about that. That was a bit of fun. and as I went on fully enough, I was the first contestant up. I was standing there for. quite. what? About Now They were getting all the levels like that In the studio. I could see the first question on the screen. He was gonna ask me the answer to something. I was relaxed. I was

andy___chris:
Oh, not

chris_baker:
so yeah, Chase was funny. It was meant to be My news meant me a bit more scary. I think

andy___chris:
Vexin.

chris_baker:
I enjoyed both.

andy___chris:
Have you applied for any more

chris_baker:
No, although master minds are always always clear, they will have you back if you want to go back and do one. But I’ve just been busy. It’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of effort to kind of get ready for it.

andy___chris:
Dental marketing from two thousand

chris_baker:
Yes, exactly

andy___chris:
to two thousand and twenty three?

chris_baker:
that would be helpful. but it’s just that’s the problem. and

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
so I think as you get a bit older, it starts to be a bit harder to retain it all as well noticed.

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
years still

andy___chris:
and probably you can’t be asked.

chris_baker:
well as. but yeah,

andy___chris:
Yeah. I suppose you’ve. You’ve already done it as well,

chris_baker:
there’s

andy___chris:
haven’t

chris_baker:
that

andy___chris:
you?

chris_baker:
have faces, master mind, particularly, there was a bit of a drop off. The I’m just not bothered in the same way I was. I’m annoyed because

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
obviously people don’t. I didn’t In it, so I didn’t expect to win the whole thing, but I wanted to.

andy___chris:
Are you a pub quizzer?

chris_baker:
Yes, I was.

andy___chris:
Hold on before we go to the pub quizzer. Just just just in Chris’s defense, you did. In your round. You did miss out to the eventual winner of Master Mind, didn’t

chris_baker:
I did

andy___chris:
you? so? so so is playing it down? But you did. You did miss out

chris_baker:
Well.

andy___chris:
to the person

chris_baker:
I

andy___chris:
who

chris_baker:
scored.

andy___chris:
went on to win

chris_baker:
scored

andy___chris:
it?

chris_baker:
twenty three. I came third, So I was three.

andy___chris:
Well,

chris_baker:
Some weeks would win. so

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
yeah,

andy___chris:
but were you the most entertaining guests?

chris_baker:
Yeah, probably, but I don’t know whether that speaks well of me or badly of the other. but

andy___chris:
You

chris_baker:
yeah,

andy___chris:
just think some of those are. Yes, I’m going to do chemicals created since nineteen, O, eight to nineteen seventy four.

chris_baker:
Well, the lady who wanted was doing classics, so that’s kind of hard.

andy___chris:
Oh,

chris_baker:
That’s proper.

andy___chris:
nice.

chris_baker:
The guy

andy___chris:
nice,

chris_baker:
who came above me as well, did wonders, which I would have done all right. Actually, that was

andy___chris:
Been all right On one is

chris_baker:
that was okay. That was an interesting

andy___chris:
well,

chris_baker:
one.

andy___chris:
I’ll say that I don’t know about three.

chris_baker:
Yeah,

andy___chris:
so before we get into your pathway into the dentastry, which is where you are today, is er a time back in your childhood that you could look back on and say this is the reason I’m sitting here today

chris_baker:
By today, do we mean the dental just just were.

andy___chris:
Just in terms of your life. What was you as your childhood? Like, What kind of a defining moment in your childhood? kind of put you on a path where you’ve ended up now.

chris_baker:
Well, I’m sure every small boy dreams of working in dental marketing happen

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
to me.

andy___chris:
I have a dream.

chris_baker:
Yes, exactly. I was used to make me laugh when people used to go and play like Shrowsbury Town, and they, they grew up in as they always

andy___chris:
Uh,

chris_baker:
dream play.

andy___chris:
h, Uh,

chris_baker:
but I suppose in some way my parents teaches so that where retaining inform

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
all that kind of stuff comes from Um, child. I mean to decide that makes fern. But as to where I where I am, Yeah, maybe I mean just in terms of retaining knowledge and interesting. How interested in how things work, I think liking people, relationships, people that that? in any

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
business,

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
I think of a Being gregarious Going social those things as well, but from my childhood speciiclly, I was, I wasn’t a bad student messed about because obviously having parents teachers, they were eternally embarrassed, having to attend open evening with their friends and colleagues in Ness. I went and then on to the big school as well. Yeah, they always looked ebarrassed, but yeah, on’t hin. I did too badly. Yeah, it

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
was it was. It was a good child. I was lucky enough to be born to middle class parents in a nice part in the part of the world down near Paul, in the grown up in the seventies Eighties. I suppose interesting times, Rsnlyrenly, joyable, I think could talk.

andy___chris:
Did you of when you know? like quite when you’re growing up, you sort of either your school or you go. Yeah, I want to be a. Whatever. What did you actually want to do as a job of stroke of career? or did that never quite happened? We’re assuming it wasn’t mental

chris_baker:
No,

andy___chris:
marketing.

chris_baker:
I think that far, I think I think At one I wanted to do something history related because doing a degree in social science and history things is one of my history. I think so something involved in that, but there are a great deal O history. Unless you’re

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
talking bout museum or that all wanted to do. so, I kind of came out college Again not really knowing what I wanted to do, but

andy___chris:
Hm,

chris_baker:
I probably haven’t at some sects that well, I was a student. I got a job an windows.

andy___chris:
Okay,

chris_baker:
I think it still around because its a student job. At the time it was brilliant. It was three out fifteen hour, which wasn’t bad for a student job anyway, And then you got paid per appointment. You got to sit in a warm office on

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
the telephone and bring people up, and let’s be honest, annoy them. I’m sure ayoyremembers having a phone. He remembers that, but it was a great Even job Made me realize quite good with people. I’m talk.

andy___chris:
Interesting.

chris_baker:
Yeah, so that problem is part of it. So when I came out

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
of college, I went and one as working, which was when we stadbetween the old Twin Towers, Proud hospitality company.

andy___chris:
Oh, Keith Rouse,

chris_baker:
Yeah, so

andy___chris:
Wow, you’ve got. you’ve got a funny story, haven’t you about your first sale? The first sale

chris_baker:
Yeah,

andy___chris:
you made

chris_baker:
I

andy___chris:
when

chris_baker:
mean

andy___chris:
you worked for Keith Prose.

chris_baker:
in those days and I’m not. this isn’t raised in the spectacles that used to be like this. Literally To go, on Monday morning I was introduced to the boss. There was a rack of old fashion pages there on the shelf and you were given one And there’s a script of you. That was it,

andy___chris:
Wow,

chris_baker:
and it was all quite commissioned. If you didn’t sell anything, you didn’t earn any money. Really terrific. but anyway, I’ve been there a day or two and I think I was away on the Wednesday. the Thursday. I have a good converse. We sectary the home county somewhere and it was in selling. It was the first week of and selling and they wanted two spots And so and then they said, Oh, yeah. Well, we send over the four and we’ll send it back. I was like Yeah, you’ve done sales. You’ve kind of head that before, so it hopefully nd. then I was off and then I came back on the third day and everyone pointing out me laughing and I went up to often went up to

andy___chris:
Oh,

chris_baker:
The front as Bott showed me through this form and basically been sent over by this. Actually, I’ve been speaking to and basically said, There was a note at the bottom. O Nyhingelse. You want to add? Said Well, Actually, so and so was blind. Follow the sound of the. The. The play. So he sitter the front. They thought it was a wind up. Obviously, I think probably old Pabutthey

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
ran up the company and it was absolutely straight up. So Yeah, ale about from the But was Just then one

andy___chris:
Its brilliant. So that was your co link across the sport and I know that you’re You’re an avid Totum Hotspur football club fan and

chris_baker:
For my sins,

andy___chris:
the on

chris_baker:
I am.

andy___chris:
which were recording, They just had a good weekend and you’re passionate England cricket fan as well. There we go. Those of you watching on

chris_baker:
Yeah,

andy___chris:
you tube. Clearly, your mug, because I was an Astor fan. So

chris_baker:
See

andy___chris:
you’ve

chris_baker:
my

andy___chris:
got to

chris_baker:
spurs

andy___chris:
hot.

chris_baker:
mark us at home, See and raise you. But yeah,

andy___chris:
If you just said it was in a cabinet, I’d say on its

chris_baker:
Yeah,

andy___chris:
own, because there’s

chris_baker:
indeed

andy___chris:
no other

chris_baker:
you would.

andy___chris:
cups in it.

chris_baker:
Yes, I’ve known enough personal fans to be used to this. Don’t worry. this is not new.

andy___chris:
So before it degenerates into bad footboard In your you’re to English cricket, I’m always fascinated between the stuff that we sport. No, I’m not fascinated by you. You can’t help yourself. There’s quite often these links out there between what we seen sport and how sports teams perform and behave and into business. James Curve. Famous about Black For legacy and he’s got things in their like, sweep the sheds, N you know, they always make sure that you know the change rooms tidy and clean when they finished the game. But I think I think no defense. Yeah, decus. I think the Japanese football team did the same thing and the recent woke up. the changing room is always left in magnate condition. Supporters. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah.

chris_baker:
Oh yes, that’s right. I think I saw that.

andy___chris:
yeah, Have you got any kind of wisdom or insight that you’ve seen from the world of sport that work in business? Anything that you’ve seen in business that would kind of improve the English cricket team

chris_baker:
Well,

andy___chris:
or totem,

chris_baker:
Yeah, to think with us another day,

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
but a couple of things to bring to mind was, I mean, In turns of a cricketing analogy would be famously anyone. I suppose England cricket would not rely one of the most as most successful England in, I suspect, But Mike Rely was wonderful England captain, but bluntly he wasn’t the best batsman. He were picking on pure talent. He probably shouldn’t have been in the Engsidatthe. time were talking back now the early eighties on. But the reason why he was such a fantastic in the, had a degree in syologyand management, and all that kind of stuff. But it’s about people, business,

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
this about managing people, long after people.

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
he got the best. E’s the classic example if he knew what to say to both of them to fire him up, but at the same time there were other who weren’t bombastic pas needed round the shoulder, so I think it

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
really kind of personify that, then the other thing as well as you see sports team is kind of Idea of incremental games. I think In business, sometimes we can want to get from not to a hundred really really quickly, which, which is understandable, but what we should, we can have that in our minds, but what’s useful to do is just make all those inrementalgames a regular basis. and suddenly you look back and you see how far you’ve come. It hasn’t felt like it at the time. I think that Espclbecaue you’re talking about, Let sport. These people are already really good play for anyone.

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
Any professional. you’re gonna be really good. What separates the top from the one below is not. They’re all kind of ninety five per cent. Is that five per cent that separates the renothemess at the top from somebody plays in league to at the bottom. They’re still very good, but it’s working on those kind of things. So how do I make myself little bit better And this is true business dental practice. What can we do just little bit differently That will make a stand out increase? Conversions will make our patients rave about all those kind of things.

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
That’s one thing. I think.

andy___chris:
Yeah. Now I mean, I know that Dave Browsford, when he joined the British cycling team, he kind of introduced that concept of marginal gains and what we do it in our business. You know, we, we look for kind of little one per cent, And I think you’re right and I think over appeared of time. The compounding effect of those small improvements is massive, but no, it’s a good point. I think, In business, we perhaps don’t always think in that language often looking for big transformation. Al things something twin, Well beaten. Yeah, Yeah,

chris_baker:
I.

andy___chris:
so you then moved into into dentistry? How did how did that come about? What was your kind of entry point into the profession? And was that? when was that was that fun?

chris_baker:
Yeah, it was the minies finished working looking another role and I went to work for a dental restorative company. Actually, as far from West London. Now the time was keen to take me on your very one. Give me a week and pick it up, she said, a right. I’ll give you. yea. So that’s what I did and I was Possible for for the Irish market. So which was a great market to look after, So we go

andy___chris:
M

chris_baker:
and did like a speaking tour of Island. Ninety Eight

andy___chris:
Drinking

chris_baker:
was

andy___chris:
to Vinland. Probably

chris_baker:
just

andy___chris:
be

chris_baker:
yeah,

andy___chris:
nice.

chris_baker:
I remember I was. I was in Island. Just as they signed, A Good Green was kind of east,

andy___chris:
Oh wow.

chris_baker:
So we were on a tour of doubling, But so had responsibly for that. That was fun. but they then decided they were gonna relate to the middle, and I did think about because I did enjoy the role, but I thought I, despite based in Southeast, luckily a connection. I had an interview with people

andy___chris:
Uh, yeah,

chris_baker:
went Friday After he is just about to finish. he said you start, and I wanted to said Day, And so he made the publishing Colossus that his offensive. This was

andy___chris:
Wow.

chris_baker:
eight. This,

andy___chris:
And and how long did you secure? You stayed here up to the point where you found your Corona Marketing? Was that was that

chris_baker:
No,

andy___chris:
right?

chris_baker:
there was. There was a bridge in between. I stayed here for five years to two thousand and three,

andy___chris:
Right?

chris_baker:
and then work with someone client. I’m still working with medical and dental ad. I went to work for him, doing a little bit of what I’m doing Now marketing side, Things go back twenty years. we, going back to the idea of things, practice newsletters and that kind, hard copy

andy___chris:
Why not?

chris_baker:
news letters and still work the right. But anyway that was that was in two, thus three, so I did that for about three years. Working for this became obvious to me that There were many other things we couldn’t should be doing, and it was only really going to work if I did it for me, so that

andy___chris:
Hm?

chris_baker:
Corona was set up to six

andy___chris:
Right?

chris_baker:
when I went.

andy___chris:
obvious, pre preprecovid, Just just

chris_baker:
Yes,

andy___chris:
you, you beat the corona virus,

chris_baker:
I did

andy___chris:
but

chris_baker:
and

andy___chris:
I’m sure there were lots of jibes coming your

chris_baker:
oh

andy___chris:
way during that time.

chris_baker:
is iron. It was literally one of those things that I wanted a name that was near the start of the. I didn’t want it to be my name Ornythinglike. That consultancy me, Ike. that it was like that near the start of its Latin for crown, which I lad out almost no dentist has got since so I kind of

andy___chris:
Oh

chris_baker:
wasting my time with that one, but was

andy___chris:
Uh,

chris_baker:
all fine and then, yeah, as you say, twenty twenty. we had a lot of hits in a The months on the web site.

andy___chris:
A bet.

chris_baker:
A few, few kind of raised eyebrows, and I did think you may be aware that the beer company was seriously thinking about at the cane, their name, or the

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
same reason I kin people rise, Smile and moved on, but it was. It

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
was interesting for a time.

andy___chris:
I bet. it’s such a shame that the name didn’t come up that you were in the pub one day, and you, Yeah, corona. That works.

chris_baker:
I mean, allowed us to do a few gags about vial marketing, but not too soon, if you know what I mean, because obviously we’re in the middle of a pandemic, so we had to wait a bit. but yeah,

andy___chris:
I was going to say when everything settled down, thing is, get funny. I don’t

chris_baker:
Exactly

andy___chris:
know. Perhaps

chris_baker:
yeah.

andy___chris:
not

chris_baker:
there

andy___chris:
so

chris_baker:
was

andy___chris:
funny in the

chris_baker:
time

andy___chris:
moment

chris_baker:
and place

andy___chris:
In.

chris_baker:
for that

andy___chris:
So you started this business and we spoken to a number of founders on this on this podcast and we started businesses as well. What was it like in the early days for you? What were the challenges that you had when you when you started corona,

chris_baker:
Fair question. I mean, I sup first. Even before I started. what done with Partner said, Actually, we can just about to live on your car if we don’t make any money. So that was the first thing to have like

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
safety. I don’t think you always need, but I think he is helpful. So

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
the challenges. I already worked in the industry from that on, not quite ten years

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
years, though a few people, but getting in front of people talking to people. creating enough as your name who you are. what you do Without maybe finance that you might to do that cause that’s easy to do. If you got anyone can

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
do that you don’t when you start on, and it’s about working really hard, but it’s also about knowing when to. I think when you start and see me in late into the evening, I’m not sure. Effect just felt I should be working because the balance

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
show where I wanted to be, but actually I was probably more effect of and relax. Use my time. Yeah, and it’s just a lot o work. But that’s why. Just and it takes time and it normally takes longer than you expect as well. rience.

andy___chris:
If you could go back and change anything, would you?

chris_baker:
No, I don’t think I would. I think because it feels there’s almost like cheating. Is that you’ve learned so go again, but I think there’s also a law of consequence consequence, so you change somethin obvious for the best, But then what would that lead to

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
the sliding doors?

andy___chris:
Yeah, Yeah,

chris_baker:
All of that? So actually, I’m pretty comfortable and happy where I am at the moment, I think With hindsight I’m not sure there is any. The

andy___chris:
I mean, I think

chris_baker:
of

andy___chris:
that’s

chris_baker:
course,

andy___chris:
really cool.

chris_baker:
Seems I could do better, and I’m not denying that,

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
undoubtedly true, but I don’t think I want to go back and massive. You change any cause of all the things That of, leave off

andy___chris:
I say,

chris_baker:
that.

andy___chris:
because you don’t know what the consequence of even what might be perceived as something that wasn’t very good. How that affects the future? Fascinating? Well, God, who was the Co. Google? He has this thing where he calls it the razor test and he says that If you go back and you you change something, so you raise something, you also need to accept that everything that would have come about as a result of that going forward gets changed as well. On. Very sadly he lost his son, his son, I think, was a teenager and he was having an operation and he passed away under the operation And so he knows, from the very bitter end of this, you know what that is, and he still maintains that he wouldn’t change that situation, Because if you change that, everything going forward changes and I know that’s a real kind of dark

chris_baker:
Yeah, that

andy___chris:
end

chris_baker:
is,

andy___chris:
of it, but I think you’re right. I think all those learnings that come from the process we go through the things that make us the people we are today. After

chris_baker:
And you learn so much more from your mistakes. Doing it well. That’s the other thing is

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
back to kind of ultimate realities and back to the future to Terry. Yeah, that’s obviously dark. Ye think I think that’s interesting.

andy___chris:
Yeah, So just run through what does corona do for do for dentists? You know, Marketing is a very broad church in terms of what what it has to offer. What’s what’s your specialty,

chris_baker:
It is. I mean, were especially the market marketing agents we can prate with market desire on line. I think our particular area of experts is looking at internal marketing, which experience shown over the years is so often overlooked. That’s not to say, cause we prate problem. But what we find is so many practices That there’s a number of things going First. Marketing is viewed as a bit of a tap, and not actually, you can take it

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
off and on, but not even just that is viewed an arm of your business over there somewhere and not integlto. Everything you do, I mean how you want. The

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
phone is marketing. setting your prices is marketing. All of this stuff is every market people say. Do marketing what you do. You might not do. Marketing comes your marketing the way you do business. So I think our particular skill that is working with paces on their internal processes. They’re into Marketing. Making that. then, looking at Le of Ouse and Ow, we can convert doing matin now, But yeah, I think in turn of marketing is unfair. When you’re talking about cost per league. There’s an old clear of it percent in your business, Percent for a reason, most

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
mental prices, in my experience, all the customer treatments been probably already on the books. Just they’re not looking

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
after. Probably this isn’t near selling, E, looking after people, And that’s the other thing to be Marking isn’t just selling about giving the customer what they want.

andy___chris:
And over pea time you developed a niche helping dental practices win awards. You know, in the U, we love a dental award, don’t

chris_baker:
We

andy___chris:
we?

chris_baker:
tell you it.

andy___chris:
You know? beatin as going, say, Come on, dresses up October time. It feels like my dinner jackets in the cleaners every week for a couple of months.

chris_baker:
It’s got to the point. Now I wear my dinner suit more often a regular. That’s a changing

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
culture, but no, October that sometime. Yes, it’s It’s a nice kind of happened by accident. Actually, there’s a Le clients I was working with about ten years ago and they said we want it was. I remember being there was the last year as the first, which is the hotel Swiss Cottage, But literally there were about eight compared to what they are

andy___chris:
Did

chris_baker:
now last year. How many people thousand people know

andy___chris:
Thou ear in the room? Did go get highly

chris_baker:
Well

andy___chris:
commended.

chris_baker:
at that’s a discussion for another.

andy___chris:
I was the greatest

chris_baker:
Well,

andy___chris:
of all

chris_baker:
Obviously

andy___chris:
time.

chris_baker:
was it was to

andy___chris:
See what I did there.

chris_baker:
the greatest of all time. But

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
but no, in these climes wanted me. Actually, I’m really enjoying doing this. As I got more into it, I started to realize that I suppose so many people do it badly. I’ve just been said something this week actually from someone dental. Because we do you not. And they said always thought we’ve done a really good entry we’ve given back That we haven’t. I’ve looked at the stuff and it’s like, Yeah, it’s about how great you are, but it hasn’t answered the question. And I speak of someone. Maybe that’s permanent to me. I speak of someone who I did my level history, which I’ve done really well in my personal study. He sat in the exam and done a lot of stuff on persons foreign policy. So question comes up in the level history paper, Talk detail and relevant about Pameson’siper Policy By just one word changed in spot, So I wrote two sides of stuff about Belgium and his, like that, like imperial, not foreign, So I got very low marks. I spent most of the time talking about something wasn’t so actually, Not answering. the question is quite important to me. Amazed at how many

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
people with dental. particularly, I know, because when we have the initial consultation will say, go through what you need to cover. and the almost What they like to do is kind of the carpet. If there’s a bit of the area. The award they’re not strong. It’s like not worry about that. You have

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
you have to cover everything. The reason you

andy___chris:
m,

chris_baker:
want to peak to people so early is months to work. At what your week? Some people

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
rush the carpet Is you have to deal question, As for instance, I explain how your patient journey, Now that patient interact with you. If you think on that written down, That’s not good enough. you have to actually come up

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
and provide it too.

andy___chris:
and in some ways, when, when the Quality Commission arrived in industry for the people who had good systems processes around their businesses were effectively just gave a structure for how they hold that information. Looking at awards in a similar way is an argument that. perhaps if you did enter the awards, the one of the by product of that is, you may end up with a better business, because talking about you know, can you kind of chart your patient journey That business and end up with a better process and system as a result of entering the awards and feeling that they weren’t particularly strong in that part of their application,

chris_baker:
Definitely, it’s a bench making process Isn’t measuring

andy___chris:
M

chris_baker:
yourself An Your competition makes

andy___chris:
m,

chris_baker:
you step back and think Because the common response I get from many process. You want all that even thought,

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
but at that that

andy___chris:
m,

chris_baker:
I mean good practice as well. So these people are doing a lot of the stuff they just

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
to include. so I think you. I think it allows you to take a step out. Look at what you’re doing well, and there will be a couple o things I raise, And so you could be doing that better. however good they are. There’s always something they could be

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
doing better as well as that. I mean, I’m obviously, perhaps maybe from market awards. Nothing better practice.

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
but it’s also fantastic. team develop as well, Really makes the team feel part of something. If you see these days obvious, talk about the driven businesses that what people want to work for these days and I think was part of that. It makes there’s a reason to come to work. We’re doing this. Other people doing this were doth, An we should be really proud, So I

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
think I think very much. it’s part of that and that’s something we’re leading into. Were now looking at the Queen’s awards probably seem to be branded this place, but the kind of the piniclofwad were doing a few of those this year. That’s kind

andy___chris:
Well,

chris_baker:
of the pinnacle of the awards trade. That’s why,

andy___chris:
Interesting.

chris_baker:
because

andy___chris:
a nice, nice.

chris_baker:
yeah,

andy___chris:
It’s a nice notion. Say you should ask where as we could enter, but yeah, I know I know from the night that we’ve been there. You kind of do litle tali, and you always do incredibly well for the clients that you’re working with more more broadly on dentistry. It’s always changing. You know, it’s ever changing Is evolving. What? for you? Would you say? The biggest thing that worries you about dentustry at the moment,

chris_baker:
I mean from from a practice perspective, I mean, here’s a few things going on as I’m sure you’re aware that everyone is about recruitment. They they

andy___chris:
Hm,

chris_baker:
get. I think there’s probably I think. at some point a decision has to be made on what people Vot is what they want. With dentistry you wanted

andy___chris:
Hm,

chris_baker:
to be, which is fine. You’ve got to pay for it.

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
You wanted to be a cool service to community service. I mean, there’s lots of ways you can go with it because at the moment it’s not really serving anyone. I don’t think

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
not, so work very hard. What the system is? not helping any. think there, the ways and means of improving it. I think to deliver

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
better care. Obviously, we work with practices are mix. You may mix everything in tween, but I think that for me solve a lot of issues more generally in the sect. I think the problem is the genets. There’s not

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
so the chief

andy___chris:
hm,

chris_baker:
in about So that’s definitely

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
something. It’s a bit of a concern. I’m also aware of certinly close. We work with Cove couple of months to take a step back and look at the finances and actual doing some losing money

andy___chris:
Yeah, yeah,

chris_baker:
making. it’s like it’s all very well wanted back and working for society. But you have to be remunerated. even

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
if you know that slightly lower than you might be private

andy___chris:
M,

chris_baker:
decision you make. You

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
have to think

andy___chris:
yeah.

chris_baker:
there’s a big picture thing to be. I don’t. I think it’s going to happen. I suspect not.

andy___chris:
I mean, though we saw loads of practice, you would have seen them as well, quite who did very well privately through Ovid, and I think the challenge of that created was that there wasn’t the chair occupants when when things opened up and they had to get back to the living, the contract at full value Here just wasn’t the chair occupancy available to deliver that industry, which in some ways is a great problem to have, because you got really busy another side of your business, but in terms of access to an industry,

chris_baker:
Yeah,

andy___chris:
there as lots People that struggling to find addendis that had the time and the valuability to see them, so yeah, I think you’re right. I think it needs addressing, but I mean, we’ve all been in the market for a while and it’s been kicked around for a long while. Isn’t it

chris_baker:
It has. I mean, you know, come the anti society, Rob, waiting this. depending on where you are in the country, you can be waiting. He and half years now it was. It was always a long time. It was probably two years before.

andy___chris:
Well?

chris_baker:
but it’s gone out.

andy___chris:
huge?

chris_baker:
Yeah,

andy___chris:
Yeah, that’s crazy, isn’t it? Which would then also lay over with the explosion of authodontics, And you know the clear Aline systems

chris_baker:
Yes,

andy___chris:
out there, but I guess from a society point that isn’t available to everybody is in

chris_baker:
And the other thing is, there’s obviously more demand ful because people have seen. the

andy___chris:
M

chris_baker:
people are more aware of what they like on social media and there’s more demand than there was thirty years ago. Just

andy___chris:
M

chris_baker:
the state is never going to

andy___chris:
Rue,

chris_baker:
pay for

andy___chris:
So

chris_baker:
that,

andy___chris:
true

chris_baker:
but something

andy___chris:
yea,

chris_baker:
needs to be dealt with.

andy___chris:
absolutely. it’s a fascinating market, fascinating profession. We always ask our guests the same two questions at the end. The first one we ask is if you could be the fly on the wall in a situation with somebody somewhere, what room would you like to be in And where would your fly be hovering and listening?

chris_baker:
Okay mentioned, Given this baby more than every le bothering me all the week End these two questions.

andy___chris:
Yah.

chris_baker:
but because it’s interest cause you could go anywhere with him you. this is what I’ve

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
I’ve kind of been dealing with, but on this one haps, not surprisingly my history background, I’ve to a floor on the wall in the Tower of London in fourteen eighty five to find out whether he really did kill the two Princes in,

andy___chris:
Okay,

chris_baker:
because he may well have done, But Shakespeare obviously was a very good propagandist for the Tudors, and the winning side writes history and all that. There’s a bit of a that he might not have cully done it. The were other candidates he might have done, but I’d like to know one way or the other, so that the

andy___chris:
Hm.

chris_baker:
his historian in me wanting to know for sure.

andy___chris:
Interesting.

chris_baker:
Yeah,

andy___chris:
that’s great because so quite often people go to go quite broad, But that’s a very historian. That’s a very specific thing that you don’t want hanging out there. You want to know the answer?

chris_baker:
I do, and

andy___chris:
you know. I’d like

chris_baker:
obviously

andy___chris:
to know

chris_baker:
his big.

andy___chris:
that as well.

chris_baker:
he’s bigger news than because I was really into. I did a lot of work on part of my is level as well, and he was now. no one was talking about him, apart from the play and then obioslygot car park, And he’s

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
big news again, But it’s always interested me, always interestin.

andy___chris:
I’m sure he’d be delighted to know that he got. He got found in a car mark in Lester.

chris_baker:
Well, they as well, because obviously they wanted to, they wanted to send him back to York, didn’t they? but

andy___chris:
Yeah,

chris_baker:
as someone probably Catholic, pointed out, I’ve got no skin in this game whatsoever, but they said he wouldn’t want to be sent back to York Minster, which is now C. because he was a Catholic. when he went, He wudn’t want to go about that,

andy___chris:
That’s true. that’s true. Yeah,

chris_baker:
no one thought, but that’s my answer on that one.

andy___chris:
Lovely. it’s a great answer. and the follow up is If you could meet somebody, this can be anybody you want. You can sit down and have a cup of coffee or a pint of beer with them, living or dead, fact or fiction,

chris_baker:
Yep.

andy___chris:
and given your interest in history, the dead part might interest.

chris_baker:
Now he’ve gone alive on this one and this one very left. I

andy___chris:
Okay,

chris_baker:
suspect no one would give this answer. I wanted to be glad of pute.

andy___chris:
Oh, not, had

chris_baker:
No,

andy___chris:
put in yet. I don’t think

chris_baker:
I’m

andy___chris:
we have

chris_baker:
not surprised.

andy___chris:
no. give us. gives gives you reason.

chris_baker:
I’m just interested because it’s obviously we all know what’s happening in the crane at the moment, But I just like t sit down in a room with him and just just thinking because now I’m aware that if we live in the west and like it were, not that might color our judgment and decisions the different parts of the world make. but I just be interest in getting inside he thought process. Maybe not agreeing with him, but just understanding what he’s done. what he’s done over the is not just cranegenerally as well, I think it’s the church your Russia are wrapped up. Wrap something else right. Generally, I kind of interesting place. and so yeah, for that reason,

andy___chris:
Yep,

chris_baker:
I think I’m not saying I could solve the problem, but I just like to know why

andy___chris:
No,

chris_baker:
he’s made some of the decisions he’s made.

andy___chris:
Do you think Anna is very hard to answer? Do you think he genuinely believes that he’s doing a good thing? or do you think he’s just just thinks differently to most people on the planet?

chris_baker:
I think that would depend on your point of view. I think he’s the ultimate makivelliand, An he will. He will take any advantage he

andy___chris:
M.

chris_baker:
can. I suspect somewhere, he probably thinks that he is working in the cause of Greater Russia. The words adviser,

andy___chris:
Greater rush on, Get rid of the fastest.

chris_baker:
I think. I think he probably

andy___chris:
That’s

chris_baker:
thinks

andy___chris:
what his

chris_baker:
he

andy___chris:
idea

chris_baker:
is,

andy___chris:
was, wasn’t it?

chris_baker:
but he certainly misguided, but I suspect he will certainly take any advantage he can get. no doubt.

andy___chris:
Yeah, yeah, I think thought you could get away with it.

chris_baker:
Yes,

andy___chris:
Yes, after crime after after crime He thought we could have another push.

chris_baker:
Well, indeed, that’s what happens when you don’t tell people you can’t do that,

andy___chris:
Yeah, yeah,

chris_baker:
but yeah, interesting.

andy___chris:
that’s a nice political oppotuoexatly.

chris_baker:
Yeah, sorry. keep it light.

andy___chris:
exactly,

chris_baker:
Yeah,

andy___chris:
but no, Chris. it’s been. it’s been wonderful. Always enjoy conversations al ways. A good day when I see you Andringnadental show five minutes and you’re not being escorted out, But that’s another

chris_baker:
That’s

andy___chris:
story

chris_baker:
a story

andy___chris:
for another

chris_baker:
for

andy___chris:
time.

chris_baker:
another day. I will be in

andy___chris:
That’s

chris_baker:
the show

andy___chris:
part

chris_baker:
next

andy___chris:
two.

chris_baker:
month, but hopeful I won’t be a Scltdthat’s.

andy___chris:
No, No, Well, all being where we’ll see you

chris_baker:
Yes,

andy___chris:
there. But thanks for your time today. Chris been great. speaking

chris_baker:
No,

andy___chris:
to

chris_baker:
thank you, guys.

andy___chris:
Chris. Thanks very

chris_baker:
Look

andy___chris:
much,

chris_baker:
forward

andy___chris:
man,

chris_baker:
to seeing you So yeah,

andy___chris:
look after yourself,

chris_baker:
and you?

andy___chris:
cheers.