Dentology Podcast with Doug Watt

Transcript – Dentology Podcast with guest Doug Watt

Episode release date – Monday 20 February 2023

00:00:00:14 – 00:00:18:06
Speaker 1
Welcome to the The Business of Dentology Podcast. In this podcast, we delve into the nonclinical aspects of dentistry with inspirational guests from across the profession. You will hear incredible life stories, pick up valuable business tips and be entertained on and Yankton. And I’m joined by my co-host, Chris Strevens.

00:00:19:02 – 00:00:41:18
Speaker 2
So talking to Doug was the most enjoyable of hours, wasn’t it? What? Absolute joy. Oh, brilliant. I love I love the fact of the music that he’s interested in and what he does. An interesting thing on the scanning litigation, which is we should be a good one for people to think about if when they’re listening. So yeah, it was great and he’s just a nice guys the very self-effacing.

00:00:42:00 – 00:01:05:05
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. And incredibly talented just letting me he plays down the music side of his life heavily, but when you listen to the stuff that he’s created, he’s a is a good guy. But also it shows that he’s passionate about stuff about music in the basement. Be passionate about digital dentistry. You he’s, he’s interested in things and that really comes through.

00:01:06:09 – 00:01:26:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, definitely. Definitely Good stuff. It’s a very enjoyable It was yeah. Another and another. Great. Well we get so many that keep coming. Yeah, I think they’re all just interesting people aren’t they, with interesting lives. Not only are they involved in dentistry in some way, but they’re just interesting people and I think that’s what’s fascinating about it already.

00:01:27:03 – 00:01:48:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think where you find people who are multifaceted, they’re not dull. It just brings that extra to 1% a degree that makes people slightly different. Not good on paper. Enjoy that one, I’m sure. So welcome, everybody. And here we are today. We are so over the moon because we are joined by Dr. Doug Watt and he’s the musical dentist.

00:01:48:00 – 00:02:00:21
Speaker 2
He’s a dentist. He’s a partner at the Euston Place Dental Practice in Leamington Spa, a musician. And if you haven’t already, you should check out his content on Facebook and Instagram because he is a serious talent. Hi. How you doing?

00:02:02:01 – 00:02:03:06
Speaker 3
Very well. Hi, How are you?

00:02:03:17 – 00:02:19:16
Speaker 2
We are. Hello. Yeah, Good to see you. Even with the studio already, like, ready to make some music that’s on bass, it’s like we just. It’s. It’s some proper rock. God, like it’s an Aerosmith type guy, and he’s just spun round in his chair to talk, just for a few minutes.

00:02:20:07 – 00:02:26:16
Speaker 3
Oh, hi, guys. Yeah, sorry. I was just chillin and, you know, just playing with the band and nothing. Nothing like.

00:02:27:06 – 00:02:29:15
Speaker 2
That. I’ll make sure you live up to it.

00:02:30:10 – 00:02:39:03
Speaker 3
Yeah, I know. I need to do the full rock star thing, don’t I? You know? Yeah. I don’t know if I’ll manage that. It’s been a busy morning and surgery. I think it’s time to.

00:02:39:18 – 00:02:42:04
Speaker 2
Pick up a bottle of whiskey or something. So that’s.

00:02:45:01 – 00:02:47:04
Speaker 3
Camomile and honey tea to help my.

00:02:47:04 – 00:02:51:02
Speaker 2
Voice. Oh, here we are. Slightly different level. Oh.

00:02:51:17 – 00:02:52:12
Speaker 3
Yeah, This.

00:02:53:10 – 00:02:55:00
Speaker 2
Is. Yeah, Yeah.

00:02:55:12 – 00:02:59:16
Speaker 3
I. Yeah. Who knows what it could be? Anything in the anything.

00:02:59:16 – 00:02:59:23
Speaker 2
It’s.

00:03:00:00 – 00:03:03:15
Speaker 3
It’s a couple of whiskey. Yeah.

00:03:04:07 – 00:03:17:04
Speaker 2
So to kick off Doug, as someone who’s now got a teenager in the house, what things we need to know about you as a teenager that give us an insight to the person you are today?

00:03:17:04 – 00:03:42:09
Speaker 3
I suppose as a teenager, I was, I guess, sort of going into secondary school and things like that. I think most people are quite awkward and so I find that stage of their lives a bit difficult. I guess I spend a lot of my time playing the guitar and doing kickboxing and things to to sort of just, I suppose I was never really pushed by my parents into music and hobbies.

00:03:42:11 – 00:04:07:07
Speaker 3
And so it was something the as I came into my teenage years, I had an interest in, I wanted to get involved. And so I remember being in a music lesson when I was probably 12, 13, a school, secondary school, and the music teacher said, Who who wants to learn instruments? And anyone got interested. And I put my hand up and said, Electric guitar, which I think a lot of the the cool kids thought was quite funny, the thought of me playing electric guitar.

00:04:07:07 – 00:04:31:04
Speaker 3
But, you know, I got into I got into it and I spent most of my teenage years doing that. So I think it’s an odd time of life. And, you know, I try and remind myself the to my now 13 year old. Yeah. How difficult it can be. Try to find yourself and discover who you are. And that’s strange balance between being your own person and being the person your parents tell you to be in certain situations.

00:04:31:04 – 00:04:33:23
Speaker 3
It’s a very odd, odd feeling, I suppose.

00:04:34:07 – 00:04:50:07
Speaker 2
So that taught me not one of those guys. So go. Oh, sorry. I was going to say. Were you one of those guys? Doug, you know, used to magically magic up a guitar, a maybe. You know, you go somewhere and someone says, Oh, what do we do tonight? And then you go, Oh, I just happened to have a guitar.

00:04:50:07 – 00:04:50:13
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:04:50:23 – 00:05:21:09
Speaker 3
Look at this. I could do that now. My magic trick. No, I know the point. I think I was probably a bit too self-conscious. And it’s interesting. I was really quite into singing when I was in junior school because I was in the choir and I was doing all that kind of stuff. And I always enjoyed singing. But then I got to teenage years, went to secondary school and got a little more self-conscious and, you know, so joined the choir, terrified me, and the thought of actually singing in front of people scared the hell out of me.

00:05:22:19 – 00:05:40:06
Speaker 3
So no, I think I can only think of, you know, few times, probably as I got into my university career, when I ended up at parties or things like I remember the final year of the BBC conference. I took a guitar along and we sat in a bar till three in the morning playing, playing and singing songs. So the big group of people and things like that.

00:05:40:11 – 00:05:59:17
Speaker 3
So that was kind of, that was, that was my teenage years. I was far too self-conscious to do. I mean, I don’t think it helps. I was I was 14 years old with size 15 feet and about five foot ten tools. You know, I was showing my feet, my feet stuck out almost. This is ridiculous. So, yeah, luckily I kept growing and then.

00:06:00:19 – 00:06:24:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, I grew into so many people. Teenage years are awkward and it’s interesting you kind of saying that that kind of awkwardness that comes with it because there’s so much chucked at teenagers that they’re not prepared. Sort like the sleep patterns changing and that kind of intensity of studying that. There’s a lot that you’ve got to get through at a time where, like you said, you’re so trying to find out who you are and what you about will interest you.

00:06:24:18 – 00:06:33:18
Speaker 2
But it was nice to hear that your parents gave you the freedom to find the things that interest you, I suppose, to kind of push you down to groups.

00:06:33:18 – 00:06:47:04
Speaker 3
You know, I think, you know, I had had one or two violin lessons when I was in school, in junior school and things like that, but my parents never pushed. Justin Yeah, I know. Well, horrible, horrible, horrible solo instruments. Yeah, I know what you mean.

00:06:48:05 – 00:06:48:13
Speaker 2
It’s like.

00:06:49:22 – 00:06:50:08
Speaker 3
I mean.

00:06:51:00 – 00:06:51:07
Speaker 2
This is.

00:06:51:09 – 00:06:52:21
Speaker 3
Quickly given bagpipes sort of Do.

00:06:54:04 – 00:07:05:24
Speaker 2
So. Yeah, horrendous noises. I never understand it. They the worst sounding instrument. When you play badly, they then give to small children. If that’s not enough to put people off music forever. Yeah.

00:07:06:09 – 00:07:28:22
Speaker 3
Between probably a seven year old playing violin and a five year old trying to play the recorder. You know, the house does not sound nice, does it? No, I think it was. Yeah. My parents didn’t push me. And I think you see a lot of the people who took up instruments as, say, five years old and they were pushed, pushed, pushed and they hit grade eight by 12, 13 they hit the teenage years and they’re not interested.

00:07:28:22 – 00:07:49:05
Speaker 3
They don’t want to carry on playing because it because the joy of it, I suppose, has been squashed a bit. Yeah, yeah. They never did it because they enjoyed it. They did. It was okay to do. And you know, it’s quite sad if you really if you enjoy doing something, you pick it up. And I don’t think until you’re probably a teenager, you can really work out what you really want to do or enjoy.

00:07:50:00 – 00:08:02:13
Speaker 3
I mean, you know, speak to my and my younger son now and probably just want to be on trampolines all day and do forward rolls everywhere as a career. But obviously no valid career choice. But well, who knows.

00:08:02:13 – 00:08:19:05
Speaker 2
Doug, are you one of these irritating people who can like, play lots of different instruments or have a go at them? You know, sort of like, Oh, well, I can I can play the guitar so I can do this and do that. And whilst you might not be as good as you are a mum, but you’re still sort of proficient and can knock a noise out.

00:08:20:03 – 00:08:35:21
Speaker 3
No, no, you know, I can, I can play a few little bits on keyboard, but I’m not great by any stretch of the imagination and I can play a few beats on the drums, but I’m not, I’m not sort of a the level of some people who just seem to not pick up any instruments and be able to play it.

00:08:35:24 – 00:08:55:19
Speaker 3
You know, I’ve spent a lot of time on my guitar. That’s a lot of my thing. As you can probably see from the actually, you probably can’t see this clip down. There’s about seven guitars and a rack behind me and a load of other guitars around the room. So yeah, I said. A Yeah, I’m very much a guitarist and second secondarily a singer.

00:08:55:19 – 00:09:01:02
Speaker 3
And then yeah, probably drums would be my third, but I’m not great by any stretch.

00:09:01:21 – 00:09:16:20
Speaker 2
I love I love the fact that you’re like, Well, I don’t really. And I’m thinking, I can’t play guitar. I probably could knock out a few tunes on, on a, you know, and drums pool. It’s all relative, isn’t it, for me as a musical numskull.

00:09:17:13 – 00:09:21:01
Speaker 3
Yeah, I suppose that’s the difference. So when I can play a couple of things on the piano.

00:09:22:01 – 00:09:49:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, but what you’re saying, Douglas, was the bits that you upload online and you clean, enjoy it, you clearly enjoy the creation of it, you know, the putting together. And so it’s really enjoyable to watch because when you see people particularly younger kids who are told to do something, the joys in there, you know, when it’s something you’re passionate about, you know, it just it just shows it and it shows in lots of different lights.

00:09:50:03 – 00:09:57:08
Speaker 2
So we’ve we’ve, we’ve been chatting about music, but we’ve gone nowhere near dentistry yet. Which is your day job? So what was it that’s, you.

00:09:57:08 – 00:09:59:21
Speaker 3
Know, okay, I can go for hours speaking without dentistry.

00:10:00:03 – 00:10:02:00
Speaker 2
But I think so.

00:10:02:01 – 00:10:21:20
Speaker 3
I could talk about guitars all day. No, I, I think when I was I was interested in a vocational job when I was in my A-levels and I, it was always kind of a presumed thing that I just do my A-levels go to university. My I didn’t really ever I think that’s the way my parents pretty much said it was going to happen.

00:10:22:02 – 00:10:44:11
Speaker 3
So I just, I presume that was what was going to happen. And so a vocational job was relatively attractive because at the time there were a lot of reports of people coming out with pure science degrees of uni, not being able to get a job in any way linked to their degree or their subject matter. And, you know, with income of £8,000 a year or whatever it was, you know, lowest income you could get.

00:10:44:11 – 00:11:12:19
Speaker 3
And so I remember my sort of mum talking to me about and say, you know, I maybe consider consider dentistry. I was interested in factory medicine and I did quite a lot of work experience in factory medicine. But my mum, my mum, I think she saw my dentist car and this lifestyle because my dad, my dad’s a retired anesthetist and he used to work with a lot of dentists because he did the special needs dental lists at the Birmingham Dental Hospital.

00:11:13:00 – 00:11:31:05
Speaker 3
And so our dentist was someone my dad knew and I think my mum saw, you know, he’s driving a nice car, he had a nice lifestyle tool and saw my dad going out to three in the morning to go and do an emergency call or whatever. So I think at that point Mum probably said to me, you know, do do something that’s a bit more, a bit more family centric, a bit more family friendly.

00:11:32:22 – 00:11:47:23
Speaker 3
As she said, she suggested dentistry, and I did and I didn’t I suppose I didn’t really understand what I was getting into or what to expect until I got to unions, which I think a lot of love the students don’t. When you’re 18 years old, you’ve got to make a decision on how you’re going to spend the rest of your natural existence.

00:11:48:01 – 00:11:50:16
Speaker 3
It’s a big ask about age, isn’t it?

00:11:50:16 – 00:11:59:23
Speaker 2
Yeah, and quite often people are daunted by somebody, but it sounds like your mum had really good logic to why it would work for you. Yeah. Yeah. And so.

00:12:00:10 – 00:12:01:06
Speaker 3
I think.

00:12:02:11 – 00:12:03:22
Speaker 2
It’s so I got.

00:12:06:05 – 00:12:35:14
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think she was she was not burned but some were aware of how my, my dad’s career in hospital medicine was, you know very, very hard and you know, hard on him, but also a big, big sort of part of all our lives. So yeah, she was she was the one who sort of pushed me in the direction of dentistry, you know, And I think I think it was the right thing, you know, I wanted to go to London and do a diploma in guitar playing for a year and then become a rock star.

00:12:35:14 – 00:12:43:07
Speaker 3
But, you know, Oh, well, could have been a very different scenario. Know, I could have been the slightly slimmer, slightly better looking Lewis Capaldi.

00:12:46:14 – 00:12:54:12
Speaker 2
So you didn’t go to London to be a rock star, You went to Birmingham to become a dentist. So what was a bit what was your experience like.

00:12:57:00 – 00:12:58:23
Speaker 3
When you put it like that, the wrong decision?

00:12:59:06 – 00:13:01:14
Speaker 2
But no, I think.

00:13:03:21 – 00:13:29:18
Speaker 3
Dental school. Dental school was an interesting one because again, it’s another transition like like becoming a teenager. You will you become an adult pretty much. You be thrown out into the world. I mean, I wasn’t so much thrown out to the world as my parents lived in, but I went to Birmingham Dental School, but I didn’t live in live in halls of residence and have a relatively sort of independent lifestyle compared to living in my parents house.

00:13:29:18 – 00:13:41:00
Speaker 3
And you, again, you’re thrown into this in use yourself you’re an adult is also directed learning. You have to you have to learn all this yourself. But also at dental school, you kind of still treated a bit like a kid in the is a lot.

00:13:41:00 – 00:13:41:16
Speaker 2
More.

00:13:43:20 – 00:14:08:00
Speaker 3
Focus than a lot of degrees because you have to go to the lectures, you have to attend for the clinics, you have to do all these things. Whereas, you know, you’ve got other other courses which aren’t quite as pushy and focus. So I think it was I had a really good time at uni. I walked the middle of the tightrope I suppose, on, on getting through my exams in passing, but also having a good social life.

00:14:08:00 – 00:14:12:24
Speaker 3
I definitely wasn’t one of the students who stayed in all all night party. I didn’t.

00:14:13:03 – 00:14:14:07
Speaker 2
Overdo education.

00:14:14:17 – 00:14:55:17
Speaker 3
I’m not going to say I didn’t overdo partying. I think on occasion that might have happened. Not every night, but. Yeah, but also. Yes, every night. Yeah. No, I did study as well so. Yeah. No, I think it’s an interesting balance. And I think the thing is you sort of need to find that balance. As you as I came out of dental, you know, A-levels took a gap year, went into dental school and it was all, it’s just always these changes and transitions are difficult I think for anyone, but especially those ages where you’re really, you’re really swapping and changing quite regularly what, what your position in the world is and how you fit into

00:14:55:17 – 00:14:58:11
Speaker 3
situations. And it’s very odd dynamic.

00:14:58:11 – 00:15:00:10
Speaker 2
And then did you come out of you did a gap year?

00:15:00:10 – 00:15:29:04
Speaker 3
Douglas I did, yeah. I wish I did say I get loans. So I worked I worked a in a landscape gardening company. I also worked in a hospital as a theater porter. And then I was the junior in structure of my martial arts club. And then at the end of the gap year, just always coming into first year of uni, I started teaching the guitar.

00:15:29:07 – 00:15:45:12
Speaker 3
So as a as a Saturday job. So yeah, I didn’t I wish I’d gone traveling or done something a bit more, but you know, I did that my elective those following but it was one of those, one of those things where I should have gone with my gut instinct. But I think that was a good option as well.

00:15:46:04 – 00:15:48:18
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Did a little.

00:15:48:18 – 00:15:49:24
Speaker 2
Study martial arts.

00:15:50:23 – 00:16:14:10
Speaker 3
So I, my youngest son took up karate last year. So now Sunday mornings, although I haven’t been for the last few weeks, Sunday mornings we go to a local karate club and the other week I was trying to, trying to fight against some of the other guys in the club and I realize my hips don’t work. So he thought I was going to burst into a Shakira song and then my hips were felt like I used to go, Nope, not.

00:16:14:10 – 00:16:25:08
Speaker 3
They don’t lie, they just don’t work. So I’m not trying to throw kicks at people’s heads and getting halfway through, it’s shouting out and the instructor going, Oh, you’re your. I was like, I’m absolutely fine. I’m just 43.

00:16:26:12 – 00:16:31:16
Speaker 2
So you kick box to a high standard, didn’t you, As a younger man, you did kicks. But yeah.

00:16:31:19 – 00:17:00:17
Speaker 3
So yeah. So in 98 I used to compete I competed in country Nationals Bee Cafe so and I akca so the national competitions and I used to do the yearly national competitions and do local competitions and stuff. So yeah, I used to enjoy that back when I was younger. But then yeah, I got to go to uni and I still carried on, but it’s just yeah, obviously work and things became more, more full on.

00:17:00:17 – 00:17:11:22
Speaker 3
So. So yeah, I could have been Bruce Lee could have been Jimi Hendrix, but I decided to be I can’t even think of a dentist. The holiday was a.

00:17:13:05 – 00:17:16:08
Speaker 2
Bit ago that spots free for you. Yeah, that’s.

00:17:17:00 – 00:17:24:06
Speaker 3
That’s what I did. Yeah. Jimi Hendrix. He’s already there. Bruce Lee. He’s already there, you know. Well, dentistry is missing a superstar.

00:17:24:06 – 00:17:36:20
Speaker 2
So it doesn’t. That’s what it needs. So yeah, you’ll see quite a yoshihito duty job. What was it in VCE back then? You qualify you in a sense. You’re an associate before you decided to go into ownership.

00:17:38:12 – 00:17:51:18
Speaker 3
Ten years. So I graduated 2003 and I did ten years tenure as majority NHS practice. In 2013, I moved into Euston Place.

00:17:51:18 – 00:17:57:02
Speaker 2
And did you go as an associate with a view to buying or was an opportunity to is upon this great?

00:17:57:02 – 00:18:21:06
Speaker 3
Oh no. So I bought in as part of straight off. So it was a guy who I’d known for a good few years who was retiring and I bought Paul his share of the business and his wife used to work with me. One the practices I worked with and she she sort of seemed to head the people who took over from partners as they retired.

00:18:21:12 – 00:18:38:01
Speaker 3
So Paul Paul Mulligan, who is one of my partners, he took over from someone that he used to work with, with Rosie in the practice. And then, yeah, I took over from Andrew in 2013. So so it’s a very quick ten years.

00:18:38:01 – 00:18:39:11
Speaker 2
Was like I never looked back.

00:18:39:18 – 00:18:40:21
Speaker 3
And never looked back. Indeed.

00:18:41:13 – 00:19:03:03
Speaker 2
And it’s and it’s quite a significant practice isn’t it, because it’s a is a private practice. Yeah. In Leamington Spa this is running it. And have you found it. Did you whilst you got kind of approach which is, which is flattering and amazing. So why did you see yourself getting into ownership in partnership with others as opposed to being a sole principal?

00:19:03:08 – 00:19:08:15
Speaker 2
Or was it something that the opportunity for you to suit to?

00:19:08:15 – 00:19:38:16
Speaker 3
I suppose I was open to any of the options really. I my I quite like the idea of partnership because you’re not the buck doesn’t stop with you necessarily in that if you go away on holiday there, there are other people there. There’s always other people around My you know I’ve seen a lot of people who own practices solely you know, although you might have associates, they never have the same level of care or drive towards a practice I suppose, as as you would as an owner because they don’t have to they don’t have that.

00:19:38:22 – 00:19:59:12
Speaker 3
If you if you go away on holiday, you’ve got to you’ve still got everything. You’ve still got to sort out who’s covering you. You still have to know who’s so I would I think at the time I would have happily bought into a partnership. I would have probably looked to go as an associate with a view to buy from from a done to, say, a retiring colleague or something like that.

00:19:59:19 – 00:20:17:23
Speaker 3
Or I also would have happily, you know, set up a squat. I think probably setting up squat would have been the least happy thing, I think since COVID, the idea of setting up escorts being a little more attractive because we’ve seen the number of new patients are just sort of flowing into the practice without us having to actually do advertising or anything.

00:20:17:23 – 00:20:36:16
Speaker 3
Whereas if the thought of going somewhere and going, right, I’m going to put myself out there and say I’m taking on patients and no one turning up, it’s quite a terrifying thing. And if you’ve got no word of mouth, you’ve got no basis to base that on because I think, you know, people putting their trust in you as a dentist is a big thing, is quite terrifying thing for a lot of people.

00:20:36:16 – 00:20:53:18
Speaker 3
So if you’re new to the area or new to dentistry and no one knows anything, it’s just that worry, I suppose, of of how well that’s going to go. So, you know, all of the options I think I would have been happy to try if, if there hadn’t been an option to buy and I probably would have would have gone with the squat option.

00:20:53:18 – 00:21:20:13
Speaker 3
But I know friends who’ve done that and it’s been successful. But yeah, and it’s quite terrifying. I did look at a few practices to actually purchase our rights as a as a principle. You know, there were some, some that were okay, but a lot of the time the practices to get to the open markets, you know, there’s you’ve got to do a lot of due diligence before, you know, whether it’s right to buy.

00:21:20:21 – 00:21:32:19
Speaker 3
If you’ve worked in a practice, I suppose you know a lot more about the vibe of the practice than the feel of it. So that that that was my concern with buying a practice that someone was selling is, you know, I didn’t know really what I was planning.

00:21:32:19 – 00:21:57:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. And if an outgoing principal’s wife approaches you, you know, there’s already a some introduction and obviously I’m that is, you know Chris and I business together of course a number different businesses and we’ve got other business partners but I don’t know whether I’d like the idea of being a solopreneur. Well actually everything is on your shoulders and you have to do obviously, I think I’m always very impressed by those people.

00:21:57:00 – 00:22:02:13
Speaker 2
So I understand the comfort that comes with partners is huge.

00:22:02:13 – 00:22:27:00
Speaker 3
Yeah, and I think I’m impressed by those people. I think if you can do that very well, if you can delegate and you can get into good business manager, you can get in heads of parts of your team and you can build that side of the business. So so we can run without you there. So if I’m not there, you know, my practice manager, my head receptionist, all these people can take care of the business and it runs without me present.

00:22:27:09 – 00:22:46:08
Speaker 3
But I suppose I would worry if, if you’re not good at delegating and the kind of person who has to, has to be the boss and, well, let anyone else be involved, that’s when I think things can can fall down a little bit and something’s got to give because no one can run a business solely on their own.

00:22:46:08 – 00:22:54:06
Speaker 3
No one can be a dentist in surgery full time and then run a practice in the evening or later nights or.

00:22:54:12 – 00:22:55:22
Speaker 2
Demands on your time.

00:22:56:00 – 00:23:16:14
Speaker 3
Who is. And it’s getting worse and worse, you know, with you compliance with all the different consent processes. We have to go through all that kind of stuff. You just can’t you just can’t do it all yourself. You know, I think if anyone who thinks they can will probably sort of drop a ball somewhere. I think you need you need team, you need backup on that kind of stuff.

00:23:17:13 – 00:23:38:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, we used to do a lecture. Do you remember how we used to in lectures? We’d say we’d throw up on the board and we’d say, You know, you got to be a marketing manager, a sales manager, finance manager and i.t. Manager, an ops manager, managing director, a strategy manager, a husband, a wife, dad, or whatever. And you have to be a dentist.

00:23:38:19 – 00:23:46:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, that dentistry is basically 90, 95% of your day. And you have to they cram in all these other areas of focus. It’s just like.

00:23:46:16 – 00:23:47:12
Speaker 3
Exactly. Yeah.

00:23:47:13 – 00:23:48:18
Speaker 2
Know, it’s just not mad. It’s not.

00:23:49:03 – 00:24:15:00
Speaker 3
It’s not, it’s not really feasible, is it? And I think I think the further the more these businesses I mean the problem is we we’re automating things. We’re making everything much more efficient, which you think would take the workload office a little bit. But all it does is make us more efficient at doing more work. So, you know, the automation, all the the automated booking stuff, all the being able to send out records and things just means that, you know, we’re as busy as we have.

00:24:15:00 – 00:24:17:04
Speaker 3
We were we’re just doing more treatments in the same time.

00:24:18:01 – 00:24:20:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, it creates more space. Yeah.

00:24:20:11 – 00:24:24:08
Speaker 3
Yeah. To fill with, with, you know, doing bits. Yeah, whatever.

00:24:24:15 – 00:24:49:04
Speaker 2
So, so yeah. So this is quite remarkable. You so much change. So you also have a family, you have your music, your your of practice on a day to day clinician, but you also enjoy learning because you involve your having got to be a safety net that concerns your board member. You’re heavily involved in the dental chewables so that that learning that.

00:24:49:08 – 00:24:49:23
Speaker 3
Was a busy one.

00:24:50:07 – 00:24:58:16
Speaker 2
But it was I was going to say it’s been a busy effort. I think I saw you both sort of table wasn’t back, did you? Yes. Yes, I enjoyed being part of that.

00:24:58:16 – 00:24:58:21
Speaker 3
Yes.

00:24:59:03 – 00:25:15:13
Speaker 2
It’s an outside of the specific clinical learning. You don’t have a get off is the question how he did it. I saw the guitar presence at but was because he seemed to more times I didn’t see the guitar at the AC he.

00:25:16:04 – 00:25:33:06
Speaker 3
Did I think I did have a miniature guitar in my room. I did bring it down. I had a little Taylor Scope mini. It’s to the back there somewhere. Yes, I did take a guitar with me just in case I got bored, but I didn’t have. I think I played it once and the full five days I was there.

00:25:33:15 – 00:25:35:04
Speaker 2
Just in case. I think the.

00:25:35:10 – 00:25:51:09
Speaker 3
Cube tubules tubules are hard for guitars. When they were five, I can’t remember, but yeah, because we were playing in the band on the Thursday night. So yeah, it was a lecture lecturing all day on my hands. On course on the day then. Yeah. To 45 minutes sets with the band in the evening.

00:25:52:03 – 00:26:06:14
Speaker 2
But you still might be somebody who has a duty to suck every moment of enjoyment and the things you do. So going to these courses isn’t just about attending to learning. There’s this. There’s more to infuse and there what other things does it give you? Like going to the.

00:26:09:00 – 00:26:30:06
Speaker 3
I think a lot of a lot of it is is meeting people and and I don’t want to say networking is almost sounds to businesses it’s it’s it’s interaction ins with you know it’s not a focused networking thing where I’m trying to to gain something from meeting people because I’m not it is just meeting people interacting and if you know, there’s interesting things.

00:26:30:06 – 00:26:48:24
Speaker 3
So, you know, a lot of the time I’m I get now quite a few messages on social media and things about digital dentistry and asking me about scanners, 3D prints, all that kind of stuff because and it’s usually people I’ve met or because I’ve been on a lecture and then people ask me question, they’ve given a lecture and people ask me questions.

00:26:49:07 – 00:27:08:06
Speaker 3
So I think I think that’s the main thing. It’s the interactions with people in a similar situation to yourself who want to learn from you or people I can learn of. So, you know, in the last few weeks, I’ve I’ve had a lot of questions, but also I’ve been out for dinner with guys like Ashok Sethi, who’s, you know, one of my mentors and an amazing like a clinician.

00:27:08:10 – 00:27:26:01
Speaker 3
So, you know, the fact I’m going out for dinner with someone who’s, you know, I would love to be able to do some of the things he does surgically. And also I’m sort of of getting questions on courses of people who are Max Vox consultants and things like that, doing stuff that just blows my mind asking me about digital stuff.

00:27:26:01 – 00:27:41:01
Speaker 3
So all of this is that sort of melting post. I don’t think you ever want to be the guy who thinks I’m the top guy. Everyone comes to me to ask questions because there’s always so much learning from everyone. And I remember my dad always said to me that you learn more in the bar than you do in the lecture sometimes.

00:27:41:01 – 00:28:16:09
Speaker 3
And I think that stuck with me. And I think going to these things to speak to people and and interact, I think that’s one of the biggest, biggest parts of any of these conferences or anything is and you know, the thing that you bluetones thing is great fun hanging out with Simon Yeah. And the Alan Stuart and Sahb and just doing doing music stuff, you know, the day before tubules we, when we went down to a practice studio about half an hour away and just spent 5 hours playing, playing through our set lists and ruining our voices, ready for the next day, lecturing and singing in the evening.

00:28:16:09 – 00:28:25:12
Speaker 3
But it was great fun and that kind of stuff. It’s just a sort of more human interaction, isn’t it? So all good fun. So that’s what I that’s what I like.

00:28:25:12 – 00:28:29:04
Speaker 2
Yeah. You’ve mentioned Digi’s been sort of therapeutic as well. Um, oh.

00:28:29:08 – 00:28:30:19
Speaker 3
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely.

00:28:31:00 – 00:28:31:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:28:31:14 – 00:28:51:21
Speaker 3
Yeah. I think the thing is, if you don’t feel so alone in the world, if you, if you’re dealing with other people who are in a similar situation to you. And that’s the thing with dentistry, it’s a lonely job. It’s such setting your surgery uniqueness and the patient all day. So you’re actually being able to have those sort of moments of interruption I think is massive.

00:28:51:21 – 00:29:14:04
Speaker 2
You’ve mentioned digital dentistry a few times in there in the, you know, you’ve got scanners in your practice and many you said about 3D printers as a kit. Have you always been interested in tech or is it one of the things as dentists evolve, you’ve seen the opportunities in digital dentistry, you’ve been priced more.

00:29:14:04 – 00:29:37:20
Speaker 3
Yeah, I’ve always, always been interested in tech. So my brother’s very computers and he works works in, in I.T. Now, my dad was very into computers and, you know, so so I’ve grown up with massive interest in computing and how things work. And my yeah, I suppose when I started in dentistry, that wasn’t really a thing. That was there were digital X-rays just coming around 20 odd years ago when I graduated and things like that.

00:29:37:20 – 00:30:17:16
Speaker 3
But I think the ability to bring all these together is great. I mean, I had my computer, my Amiga 500 when I was 12 years old of thinking, you know, I had things, things like digital video capture devices on that. And then I got a little recording dongle for it and then I got a PC later. So all the other time when I was a uni, when I, when I had my PC in my room, I always had a recording set up for music and just like to sit around and play with my guitar and did some, did some songs and midi medi keyboard inputs into stuff and just playing around with sounds, which at

00:30:17:16 – 00:30:44:16
Speaker 3
the time was I suppose a relatively basic set up compared to what you can do these days nowadays. Oh my, my, the break up box down here to plug on my guitar and I’ve go to monitor speakers, microphones, everywhere, however many guitars. So I don’t want to say say on a podcast because it’s a little bit embarrassing and you all the other stuff and you know, electronic drum kits in the background, all that kind of stuff.

00:30:44:21 – 00:31:13:05
Speaker 3
So the stuff now is amazing and I’ve just really enjoyed watching how things are developed and changed. I think the thing with digital dentistry is there’s been the Sarich stuff and things like that for years, but actually seeing even how it’s evolved in the past four or five, however many years, I’ve been sort of involved with three shape and using the Treos scanners, it’s changed massively and always it’s always changing, which is exciting and a bit different.

00:31:13:05 – 00:31:26:24
Speaker 3
And it’s interesting to see what new bits come out and how you can apply them to clinical practice and how you can start using that. So yeah, I’ve always I’ve always had an eye on tech and I’ve enjoyed tech and I’ve always found computers relatively intuitive. So, you know, it’s, it’s good.

00:31:27:14 – 00:31:43:18
Speaker 2
Good fun and in the I enjoy dentistry anyway. Yeah. In terms of Yeah. It’s not been around for that for that long, you know. Are we still early days because of the age I think creepin as well now. Mm.

00:31:44:12 – 00:32:02:16
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I think we’re, we’re sort of, we’re beyond the early adoption phase. I think we’re into the mainstream adoption and sort of the early mainstream to mid mainstream. Now I think it’s getting to the point where there’s a lot of people getting scanned as whether they’re getting the right scan or not. Another matter, but that depends on what type of practice they want to use it for.

00:32:03:22 – 00:32:20:01
Speaker 3
And I think it’s getting to a point now where the new scanners that are coming out, I mean, the more wireless scanners, there are more scanners, the scan over wi fi, and you don’t need a big sort of acquisition. You know, you have to wheel around between surgeries and cars up the stairs and things to do this stuff anymore.

00:32:20:01 – 00:32:40:08
Speaker 3
You all you need to move is a small camera room to room. So I think we’re we’re at the point now where it’s a very feasible thing to, you know, rarely take an impression for the industry. But still we take impressions. There are still reasons why you need to take impressions. But I think, you know, with a lot of the tech we can do without impressions.

00:32:40:08 – 00:33:09:05
Speaker 3
You can digitally scan majority of things. CT scanning, as you mentioned, is taking a massive part in that, especially implant planning, but also wisdom, teeth, things like crown lengthening, any surgical procedure. There are benefits to having CT scans. So I think yeah, it’s a massive, massive area and I think it’s really coming to the point where people are starting to see it as a real option rather than few years ago, I was probably just picking up a toy.

00:33:10:18 – 00:33:43:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. See, also, I know Chris, Chris talks about some work that he did with a dental five years ago where they had the new bit of kit, whatever it was, and they would explain technically what it can be done. But then what we did was actually converted that into patient benefits and is always with all the things. So if I didn’t have any digital dentistry, are they clearly being converted into patient benefits or they’re a stage where they’re in 1922 results or quick results or whatever might be good to patients?

00:33:43:20 – 00:33:47:17
Speaker 2
See the benefit of digital dentistry?

00:33:47:17 – 00:34:07:06
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think, I think they do. I think without necessarily even having to convert it a lot of the time the patients, when you do something like a digital scan or you make your crown same day or any of these things, the patients are actually quite blown away by that. And a lot of patients, you know, when I’m scanning them saying, What’s this?

00:34:07:07 – 00:34:10:08
Speaker 3
And I’ve already explained to him why I’m doing a lot of them don’t.

00:34:10:21 – 00:34:11:03
Speaker 2
Get.

00:34:11:03 – 00:34:27:19
Speaker 3
What I’m saying. So then I’m they’re clicking around with this thing most this and they generally go, that’s amazing. But it’s, isn’t it? So I think the patients see the benefits from that perspective. I think the risk we have at the moment is that dentists are seeing scanners as digital impressions and that alone. So it doesn’t matter what’s going on.

00:34:27:19 – 00:34:43:02
Speaker 3
You can go if you can get an impression out with us, that’s all you need. Whereas there are so many tools wrapped in with these scanners the people are utilizing. And that’s a lot of when I, when I do give lectures and talks and things, a lot of the stuff is I’m showing how you can use these workflows.

00:34:43:02 – 00:35:02:15
Speaker 3
So starting with the end in mind for the patients. So for example, doing a two dimensional smile design, doing a photorealistic mock up to give the patient an idea of where you’re going and then work your treatment plan back from that. And that’s a really exciting thing, I think, with digital dentistry is one consent to litigation and three, just predictability.

00:35:02:15 – 00:35:34:16
Speaker 3
The fact that you are to the patients from the very start, this is what I’m aiming to give you. This is what we are. This is how we’re going to do it. And this is, you know, the the steps to get there, but also the patient and ask questions. And if you are doing this planning and you say, right, I have this set up, I have all this set up on a 3D digital model, you can look at it in so much more detail than if the patient’s not there and you’ve got a set of models or you’re looking at photos, you can actually zoom in and, really sort of look into detail and say,

00:35:34:16 – 00:35:54:09
Speaker 3
actually that’s not going to work, or this plan or write up a letter to the patient saying these are all the things that could possibly go wrong or right or, you know, all that I think focuses on the you can use a lot more detail from scanning and your digital workflows just to work out how you’re going to proceed with your treatment planning.

00:35:55:09 – 00:36:14:04
Speaker 3
And the other thing I will talk about is co diagnosis with the patient whereby you show the patient that digital scan, photos, photo overlays, all that kind of stuff and discuss it with the patient. The patient will then look at it and say, Oh, I can see what the problem is or know, you say, Have you broken this tooth?

00:36:14:04 – 00:36:30:14
Speaker 3
And they say, Oh, but I don’t like the look of that one or I don’t like this one. And actually then you get a dialog with the patient about their own teeth and their own problems and they’re diagnosing their own problems. So you’re not going to patient saying you need to crown it costs X amount. You’re saying, what do you think you need?

00:36:30:21 – 00:36:37:02
Speaker 3
That’s probably, you know, potentially diagnosing more than you would as a dentist. And then you.

00:36:37:02 – 00:36:38:02
Speaker 2
Can just it’s not.

00:36:38:02 – 00:36:38:10
Speaker 3
Just because.

00:36:39:11 – 00:36:50:07
Speaker 2
The litigation angle was an interesting one, isn’t it, in the fact you can, you know, you’re you’re recording the scan. Yeah. Those you know, people can see what’s going on. I think that’s a real interesting one actually.

00:36:50:21 – 00:37:12:01
Speaker 3
I think I think that’s a big one because if you can if you can say to a patient, So for example, I had a patient a few years ago who I did some com sits on a rope around terror teeth, and she said to me, oh you’ve, you’ve, they look great. Great, thanks. But. And she phoned. This was the next day she phoned up and said they look great but since you’ve done them this tooth has moved.

00:37:12:15 – 00:37:28:16
Speaker 3
I was like What? She was saying. A canine tooth moved across her mouth. I was like, Well, since I put some composite on your teeth yesterday, a rock solid tooth has drifted about four inches across your mouth. But I just sent her a picture of the skull and said, Look, this is a scan we took however many months ago.

00:37:28:20 – 00:37:59:18
Speaker 3
That’s why I said, Oh, yeah. So it just looks, looks different because you’ve, you’ve put the fillings on so, so you know, that kind of thing, even if it’s, you know, a completely ridiculous thought that actually that tooth could have moved from a dentist perspective, from a patient’s perspective. They don’t know that. They don’t, it’s no ridiculous law to them that you could put something up here in the tooth move and if she felt 100% that tooth was in a different place before I taught it to treated her, then instantly she’s she’s going to be thinking all something’s changed.

00:37:59:18 – 00:38:08:14
Speaker 3
Actually, if you call that scan, you can go back and say, no, this was the presenting situation. This is where you are. And I think we don’t take enough photos of guns.

00:38:08:15 – 00:38:27:05
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, says one of my guys on the dental supply Sirona thing he was he was quite clever. And what he said was he effectively scans everybody’s mouth when they arrive. And he said that way, then I’ve got a complete record of their teeth when they came to me. So if anyone wants, you know, if they break a tooth.

00:38:28:05 – 00:38:28:20
Speaker 3
You can copy it.

00:38:29:02 – 00:38:34:21
Speaker 2
Back the way it was. And it’s brilliant. It’s really clever ways, innovative use ways of using them on it.

00:38:34:22 – 00:39:02:05
Speaker 3
Yeah. And so this is what I do know. Every new patient gets a scan regardless, you know, when they when they come in, the first thing they do is a scan just to record your presenting situation. Just say, look, actually this is where where you were when you came in. The other thing we use it quite a lot for is my nurse will then go into the scans and she’ll take pictures of the scan and put that into treatment plan letters and dream presentations for the patients.

00:39:02:14 – 00:39:23:05
Speaker 3
And then we that’s again another way of generating that conversation of consent. So we have a treatment plan, PowerPoint that we put up on the screen, we chat through with the patient and then we know and that’s all. Then she’s typing away the keyboard while I’m discussing with the patient. So that’s about as valid of consent process as we can imagine getting because the patient’s got all the information on each step of treatment.

00:39:23:08 – 00:39:41:24
Speaker 3
We’ve discussed it with them. We said, this is this is the situation, this is what I suggest to resolve it. What do you think? And then they can ask the questions. Those are all noted down and then you can prove the patient has not only been told what their problem is, the diagnosis, their treatment options, they’ve also discussed those treatment options and made a decision.

00:39:42:05 – 00:40:01:01
Speaker 3
And that’s you that’s the whole of your your consent process done because you’ve got you’ve got a way of discussing that and I suppose a framework through which to discuss it. And I think that’s a really good, good option because if, you know, I hold up a little black and white x ray to patients, I see that you’ve got a whole you need a feeling, okay, we’ll put you in next week.

00:40:01:06 – 00:40:11:08
Speaker 3
That’s no consent. That’s just that’s just telling a patient something that they don’t understand. Whereas this co diagnosis, I think is a huge thing and a big part of consent.

00:40:12:08 – 00:40:44:12
Speaker 2
I think it’s really smart because actually if you think where you feel more in the process, whether this by the and you see it’s more interesting or more exciting and I guess with the new technology of our in dentistry there have been easier for us as patients to feed involved in that process with things appearing on TV screens and then having those conversations and I think turning in that way must help build a greater bond between dentist and patient and the trust which between the two as well, because a genuine autonomy.

00:40:44:16 – 00:40:46:06
Speaker 3
And an understanding.

00:40:46:06 – 00:40:46:23
Speaker 2
Hmm. Mm hmm.

00:40:47:01 – 00:41:09:20
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think it’s massive. So, I mean, I had a patient a few years ago, and this was before we was. No, it wasn’t before we started. We were scanning, but I had this chap who came in and we took a filling out, we looked at his tooth and there was a crack running through and I, he was having no symptoms from it and I said to in that point look we can refill, we can put a crown on it, we can do this, that and the other.

00:41:10:11 – 00:41:25:02
Speaker 3
And I just said to my nurses, I’m just take a quick photo of that. So she got the SLR camera out the mirror. We snapped, took a photo of this truck. So we got a full HD photo inside this tooth with a big crack running down the middle. And the guy says, Oh, well, it’s not hurting me. Can we fill it?

00:41:25:02 – 00:41:40:05
Speaker 3
And we’ll see how it goes. Anyway, year and a half later, the same chap comes back. This is hurting. This is the filling you did not that long ago. Why is it hurting kind of thing? And I said, I said, well, I don’t know usually, usually, you know, it wouldn’t hurt at that point. It would hurt straight after.

00:41:40:06 – 00:42:05:15
Speaker 3
And so I’m not sure what’s going on here. And then but no, no, it’s a tough smile, shoulder and points. The note is that it’s read well, her notes were and it was just like, you know crack in the tooth these options exclusive it she’s brilliant She wrote tons of notes you know pages and pages reams of notes and so all these these notes on you know she if she a patient comes in and says, oh, I’ve crushed cracked a tooth, she’ll write down patient cracked a tooth on Marks and Spencers olive bread.

00:42:05:15 – 00:42:19:03
Speaker 3
It’s not just any olive bread it’s it’s a stone in most respects is olive red. Thus that’s the kind of level of notes we’re going to have. So, so, you know, there’s this big picture put up on the screen with a crack right down the middle. So I said to the patient, Oh, no, look, you had a crack in the tooth.

00:42:19:03 – 00:42:34:05
Speaker 3
We told you this was potentially going to happen and that, you know, the tooth would need to come out if it did. Also, we’re going to know, too, what happened, what it was cracked and, you know, all this kind of stuff. So I think, you know, that kind of level from a litigation point of view is where we need to be, what we need to be doing.

00:42:35:16 – 00:42:55:12
Speaker 3
You know, we’re not going to do it every time. We’re not going to get it perfect every time. But if you’ve got a situation like that where you’ve got a crack in a tooth and you’ve got a photo of it and you know all these notes saying not only what tooth it was for which brand of olive bread, it was cracked on or, you know, that’s a different level, isn’t it?

00:42:56:09 – 00:43:01:12
Speaker 2
But I know it’s going to get these episodes sponsored by when I saw With the Olive.

00:43:01:13 – 00:43:07:15
Speaker 3
But no, no, I don’t think so. It was it was Aldi olive bread throughout Ireland. Anyway.

00:43:08:06 – 00:43:13:10
Speaker 2
The idea would you say I’m sure anyone that’s still got a stone bread won’t be happy.

00:43:13:16 – 00:43:19:22
Speaker 3
No, no, it wasn’t bread. It was. I don’t know.

00:43:19:22 – 00:43:20:12
Speaker 2
It was.

00:43:21:18 – 00:43:24:03
Speaker 3
It was a locally shot pheasant with buckshot in.

00:43:25:01 – 00:43:39:21
Speaker 2
Oh there was. Yeah. That was. So which would you say your, your dentistry has influenced your music or your music has influenced dentistry or are they just two separate parts of your life that run along happily but in parallel?

00:43:40:09 – 00:44:04:14
Speaker 3
I think I think I think there’s sort of every part of your life will influence other areas and I think the thing is, if you are particular about certain things, you find a degree of focus on it. So like with guitar, probably teenage years, I spend hours practicing and you know, you I think it helps you focus and helps you develop a mindset on how you get places.

00:44:04:20 – 00:44:19:11
Speaker 3
And I suppose when I was when I was training as a dentist, I would spend a lot of time just listening to music while I was revising and reading stuff. And it’s interesting. I remember my mum saying, How can you possibly concentrate while you’re doing that? You know, you need to turn the music off, just concentrate and then turn the music off.

00:44:19:11 – 00:44:44:05
Speaker 3
I’d look at the book and I’d fall asleep. So actually from my perspective, it helped me focus. And I suppose I suppose there’s lots of different interplay. Also, you know, playing the guitar, it does does help quite a lot of mobility and dexterity. So hopefully it’s helped me a little bit. I build build muscles in my fingers that help me pull people’s strong tongues and cheeks out of the way.

00:44:45:21 – 00:45:12:22
Speaker 2
Yeah That’s interesting, actually. I wonder how many dentists just thinking on that dexterity thing. I want to have anything to do or play a musical instrument of some description or make models or something. Because you’re right, It’s is such a, you know, that a member of Frank, the old Frank kind of regional guy, used to say in lectures, you know, you spend your whole day looking in a in a hole this big for a hole this big inside.

00:45:12:23 – 00:45:20:17
Speaker 2
And then you’re, you’re trying to do these things and it’s so true because I suppose as a, as a patient, you just lie and you go and.

00:45:21:00 – 00:45:47:05
Speaker 3
You know, we’re talking now with magnification loops, lighting, all that kind of stuff. You’re talking fractions of millimeters. You’re looking at preparing these and I suppose a degree of the sort of dexterity, muscle memory, all that kind of stuff will come from practicing dentistry. But also doing that, that sort of hand-eye coordination, the, you know, repetitive motion, all that kind of stuff, I think really helps on guitar around with dentistry.

00:45:47:05 – 00:45:51:08
Speaker 3
So there’s got to be some sort of, you know, interplay and benefits.

00:45:53:07 – 00:46:09:07
Speaker 2
It’s a supremely uncomfortable working position, isn’t it, really? No matter how much they try and make it into, you know, whatever your band backs or whatever, when you actually look at what you guys are doing, the answer is you. You’re constantly twisting it. You know.

00:46:09:12 – 00:46:21:22
Speaker 3
I, I sometimes use I have a microscope, so I use that and I use loops and I use a saddle stool and everything else. But at the end of the day, I’m six foot five, you know, the I’ve got I’m going to get by.

00:46:21:22 – 00:46:23:04
Speaker 2
Bending over somewhere or.

00:46:23:04 – 00:46:27:19
Speaker 3
Whatever happens. I’ve got long levers. So that’s going to be going to be issues.

00:46:28:02 – 00:46:33:16
Speaker 2
Do you do exercise? Do you do exercise for that? You know, just to really ask. And with.

00:46:33:19 – 00:46:35:07
Speaker 3
I’m going to say something.

00:46:35:07 – 00:46:36:04
Speaker 2
Exercises stuff.

00:46:37:03 – 00:46:56:07
Speaker 3
So a few years ago was doing quite a lot of weights and core core stuff, and I did quite well that. But I must admit over the last few years I’ve definitely let that the let that go a bit. It’s so when I was doing a lot of the weight lifting stuff and no weight lifting so much weight training oils and like.

00:46:56:19 – 00:46:56:23
Speaker 2
Hmm.

00:46:57:07 – 00:47:00:03
Speaker 3
But I, I did.

00:47:00:18 – 00:47:01:18
Speaker 2
Play guitar then.

00:47:02:01 – 00:47:03:23
Speaker 3
Well no too bulky on the fingers.

00:47:04:15 – 00:47:05:15
Speaker 2
And just Right Yeah.

00:47:06:10 – 00:47:17:19
Speaker 3
So yeah I could that’s really hard but it breaks the neck No more intensive guitar. Well I think none of the a compress really hard but not very quick.

00:47:17:19 – 00:47:18:14
Speaker 2
Yeah but no.

00:47:18:20 – 00:47:40:23
Speaker 3
The Yeah I was doing, doing a lot more stuff and I did find a lot of the back pain and things I was experience have gone and then I’ll probably rest on our laurels the best since and I haven’t done as much but yeah it’s something I think I think and again this last few months has been absolutely manic just with, as you’re saying, tubules back.

00:47:40:23 – 00:48:03:03
Speaker 3
And in the intervening weeks I’ve had lectures to give and things like that. So I’ve been doing quite a lot the last few months and then obviously working in practice and all the fathering and husbanding and all the other things that come along with that. So yeah, it’s something I really should make more time for and I think it’s really important, but I just don’t, I don’t really.

00:48:04:15 – 00:48:17:01
Speaker 3
Sometimes it drops by the wayside, but I’ve now signed up for a 100 mile bike ride next May. So I’m doing this bike ride through through London next May. So I need to get.

00:48:17:01 – 00:48:18:03
Speaker 2
Jane to get on and.

00:48:18:03 – 00:48:18:21
Speaker 3
Get a bit of exercise.

00:48:18:21 – 00:48:20:14
Speaker 2
I think he got his bike recently.

00:48:20:22 – 00:48:21:24
Speaker 3
He’s on there as well as me.

00:48:22:14 – 00:48:23:01
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:48:23:04 – 00:48:42:06
Speaker 3
Yeah. So, yeah, I saw my bike and I was I think I said to him, I don’t think I’ve ever met James before. And I think that’s the first thing I said to him is, oh, I’m on my bike saying what is your doing next to me? He probably thought, This guy’s very strange. Yeah, but no. So yeah, that should be good fun.

00:48:42:06 – 00:48:57:12
Speaker 2
Over the years, you’ve done very sporty things with the bike ride coming up and you scuba dive and snowboarding and the kickboxing sport is is often characterized as being, you know, people do this as a competitive element to it. Would you say you’re a competitive person?

00:48:57:18 – 00:49:03:18
Speaker 3
Mm Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:49:04:22 – 00:49:05:16
Speaker 2
Yes I.

00:49:05:23 – 00:49:06:06
Speaker 3
Know.

00:49:07:02 – 00:49:07:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00:49:07:22 – 00:49:29:01
Speaker 3
Know I am, I am competitive. I think I, yeah I, you know I used to, I used to enter all the competitions, kickboxing, I, you know, snowboarding not so competitive then. Courses were always quicker and as I say, I’ve got size 15 feet so they just trail in the snow when I try and turn. So that’s not you.

00:49:29:16 – 00:49:49:16
Speaker 3
I’ll go too quick. Smaller. It’s more like snow surfing than snowboarding when I do it because, the boat’s I bloody big then. Yeah, I guess relatively so. I don’t think I’m stupidly competitive. I’m not the kind of person who turns everything into a competition. So, you know, No, I’m not going to shake someone’s hand and crush it till I cry or anything like that.

00:49:49:20 – 00:50:02:21
Speaker 3
So I want to win. But you know, I will be. I will be, I’d like to say healthily competitive. I still let my kids win. Sometimes when you play games and things like that, I’m not going to going to be that guy who.

00:50:03:21 – 00:50:08:13
Speaker 2
Honestly I think is not going to punish you for being competitive. You £2.

00:50:08:13 – 00:50:09:09
Speaker 3
Worth of competition.

00:50:10:15 – 00:50:22:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, but I worry sometimes that younger people, it’s kind of getting lost in society where, you know, at school level you can’t compete. Yeah, you know, we’ll get back to it.

00:50:22:06 – 00:50:24:11
Speaker 3
I think. I think you need to do it.

00:50:25:11 – 00:50:26:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.

00:50:27:12 – 00:50:29:09
Speaker 3
And then when someone does win, they’re angry at them.

00:50:29:16 – 00:50:30:12
Speaker 2
So. Yeah.

00:50:30:21 – 00:50:59:08
Speaker 3
You know, I never I was never the kid who cried if they lost a race because I wasn’t running. I was always going to swimming. The Yeah, I was, I was never that kid who cried when I lost. But I, Yeah. Obviously felt guilty if I did lose in the same way. But you know, I think I think a degree of competition is is necessary really if you don’t if you compete, you know, there’s if there’s no competition, there’s no reason to strive to improve.

00:50:59:19 – 00:51:18:03
Speaker 3
I think, you know, if everything’s at the same level that you’ll you’ll never you’ll never improve if if every guitarist out there only played GC and D you know why why bother with in a minor. You know there’s there’s nothing to drive you to to, to get better if everyone was at the same level. We never get any progress in anything.

00:51:18:03 – 00:51:35:01
Speaker 3
So yeah you know, if everyone said, oh, dentistry is just, just about getting people pain, then we just take every tooth out that we came against and we never looked at ways to replace them. Everything. We still have no teeth. So, you know, there’s I think you need something just to push you and drive you to to improve.

00:51:36:06 – 00:51:56:19
Speaker 2
And life is generally competitive, isn’t it? Yeah, Simple as that. I could never understand in the I can’t remember. I was probably it was after I went to school, but the governments had all this great idea that nobody ever won anything and nobody ever lost because you didn’t have winners sports. You just had competitors and stuff and it’s just not.

00:51:56:19 – 00:51:59:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, but life’s a bit of a competition really.

00:52:00:00 – 00:52:22:03
Speaker 3
I, I suppose I can see the this of being kind to kids and not trying to damage their mental health. I can see why they do it. And I think that’s going to be different with different types of kids as well. Some kids will thrive on competition, some won’t, some will hate competition. And I think it’s more of a an issue of Blunkett treating every every child in the same way.

00:52:22:03 – 00:52:39:01
Speaker 3
And if you go a kid who’s not competitive, isn’t interested in competition, don’t put him into competition, be aware of it. Don’t insist they compete in school sports days, don’t insist they do this because they’re going to do it. Whereas if you go to the competitive kids, then they’ll push each other to get further. I think, you know, it’s it’s horses for courses.

00:52:39:01 – 00:53:03:06
Speaker 3
And I think education of children is a massively important thing. And I think having too much of a blanket way of educating and pushing children to do stuff or not is is a worry. And I think, you know, you’ve got you’ve got kids who will learn very well in one way. But if that’s the only way this taught, because 90% of the kids will learn that way, what happens to the 10% who don’t?

00:53:03:18 – 00:53:22:02
Speaker 3
You know, they, they don’t achieve their potential. So I think there’s a there is a place for competition and I think there’s a place for being very aware of people’s differences and who who should be treating a specific way based on their ability to compete or their inability to compete.

00:53:22:02 – 00:53:43:20
Speaker 2
And I think it’s about education, as you say, it’s about education, and it should of this great thing that I must have told so many people about those TV show years ago where basically they they took people and they just assess them on nonacademic sort of ideas. And then I remember them saying to this woman who works in an office, they said, You’d make a really good free diver.

00:53:44:03 – 00:54:02:14
Speaker 2
And she said, But I can’t swim. And they said, Yeah, but you’ve got the temperament. And they said, Would you be prepared to try it? And she tried and she became British champion free diver. And it was brilliant because it was not academic. It was about her attributes. And I always think it’s always stuck with me in the facts of, yeah, you know, everyone’s got a skill.

00:54:02:15 – 00:54:03:21
Speaker 2
It’s just we need to find it.

00:54:03:21 – 00:54:16:03
Speaker 3
Sometimes I just worried if I had that kind of conversation that say something like, You’d make a really good mortician. Why? Because, you know, funny, you know, friendly. And, you know, you work best on your own with dead people. Yeah.

00:54:16:14 – 00:54:17:06
Speaker 2
Thanks. Yeah.

00:54:17:21 – 00:54:39:06
Speaker 3
I do end up with something, really, You know? So no offense to any morticians listening. Well, you know, you know, you’d make a you’d be the world’s best. Something really embarrassing. I don’t know. I. I’m being very aware that I can’t insult anyone. No, I’m just. I’m just Stop. Stop before I say something.

00:54:40:06 – 00:54:48:24
Speaker 2
Even make an apology to the morticians in that I don’t think we get heavy numbers so the mortician can be just like. No, I think you’ll be surprised if.

00:54:48:24 – 00:54:51:11
Speaker 3
You watch it Now.

00:54:51:11 – 00:54:51:17
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:54:52:11 – 00:54:57:20
Speaker 3
All of a sudden they’ll be like the the British Morticians Association have. They’re public enemy number one.

00:54:58:09 – 00:55:02:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. He’s a dentist. Yeah.

00:55:02:10 – 00:55:02:19
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:55:03:06 – 00:55:04:05
Speaker 2
Exactly. Yeah.

00:55:04:12 – 00:55:08:07
Speaker 3
He’s dead and buried. Sorry if I’m mortician.

00:55:08:08 – 00:55:26:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, we we always. We always finish up in the same way. We don’t like to get to the core of who you are. So if you were given the opportunity to be a fly on the wall in a situation where. Where would that be? Wembley. Who would you be with? Yeah, I’m going to be interested in this one.

00:55:26:18 – 00:55:28:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I don’t know.

00:55:28:01 – 00:55:49:05
Speaker 3
Obviously I do think I have to think about this. And once I got all the wildly inappropriate stuff out of the way, you know, I few. Yeah. No, I just won’t even go into that soil. So they’re all going round my head now. So I was thinking you to.

00:55:49:05 – 00:55:49:17
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:55:51:03 – 00:55:54:24
Speaker 3
No. Anyway, thrilled. What I was thinking was the.

00:55:55:23 – 00:55:56:09
Speaker 2
I’d love.

00:55:56:09 – 00:56:32:13
Speaker 3
To be. Yeah. Sorry. My mind went way off then. Yeah. Megan Fox featured and it was all kind of weird. No, I would love to be a fly on the wall. So I was thinking when Dave Grohl was writing a song like Everlong or, you know, just to see where where he went with, you know, what the creative process was, how he how he sort of went from, you know, I’ve got this chord, okay, I’m going to do that to a drop D tuning and then I’m going to play this and then, you know, how does that how did he how did he come up with this all with a guitar?

00:56:32:13 – 00:56:51:11
Speaker 3
Did he start with the vocals? They start with, you know, hello, I’m waiting here for you and then put the guitar to the I just love I love even more to have a conversation So a talking fly on a wall would be even better because I could say, What are you thinking right now? And it goes a talking fly, you know, that kind of stuff.

00:56:51:11 – 00:57:13:03
Speaker 2
If you know something that might be Rider’s on the stool on YouTube. So there’s a great one. A rise in the storm when the guy says he he basically goes through how they got to create right is in the stone. It’s fascinating because I’m not a musical creative and I obviously you are and this thing it just strikes me the song is oh that could be quite good.

00:57:13:21 – 00:57:17:16
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then that refining process is just fascinating.

00:57:17:16 – 00:57:51:09
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I think I think being able to know what someone you know is thinking while they’re doing that, how they got there, how you know what, just that process fascinates me and how different because obviously every different musicians sounds different, but they have a sound. So you listen to a Foo Fighters song, you know, it’s a Foo Fighters song because of the way it’s been written or certain certain chord progression, certain bridges, certain things they use that are the Foo Fighters sound and whether it’s a cognizant thing that they actually think, right, this is what we put in here or is just something they like the sound of.

00:57:51:09 – 00:58:14:04
Speaker 3
So they play it again and again and it always features and all that sort of certain way of turning that chord progression round into a chorus verses verses, verses verses. I would that, you know, that’s quite, quite interesting to me, although I said if, if I had been there and the song Everlong then features the line oh my God a talking fly or something like that, it might have ruined the song.

00:58:14:04 – 00:58:17:16
Speaker 3
And Dave Grohl his entire career is. But anyway.

00:58:17:21 – 00:58:31:10
Speaker 2
That so many bands have that as well. Don’t like you say. So I’m thinking of coal as well. You hear Coldplay music. If you hadn’t heard the tune before, you probably know it was copied. But Dave Grohl was in Nirvana as well before the suicide. But yeah.

00:58:31:10 – 00:58:32:22
Speaker 3
So he was the drummer in it.

00:58:32:23 – 00:58:40:18
Speaker 2
But that was quite different. So obviously there was a reinvention with a new fight, so it was distinctly different from Nirvana.

00:58:40:18 – 00:58:58:05
Speaker 3
Yeah, So I think probably if you find a lot of the songs written by Nirvana were written by Kurt Cobain and then Dave Grohl as well, or they were written by Kurt or they were written by Dave or, you know, a combination of factors. And then I suppose Dave Grohl probably wrote a lot of the Foo Fighters stuff.

00:58:58:05 – 00:59:24:00
Speaker 3
But if you listen to the first album he wrote, which was actually just the EP titled Foo Fighters, the first two songs on it, Big Me and this is a cool. Both of those songs sound very different later on. Foo Fighters songs, they’re quite, quite melodic, quite like, quite sort of fun songs. Very much changed then in the Color and the Shape when he had a band behind him.

00:59:24:00 – 00:59:43:13
Speaker 3
So the interesting thing about the Foo Fighters is he wrote and recorded all of it himself, I think in about a week. So he wrote. He did. He did the basslines, he did the guitar, he did the drums, he did the vocals. He did the backing vocals. It was all Dave Grohl. And then he got a band to play live later, and that’s when he sort of built the Foo Fighters.

00:59:43:13 – 01:00:01:04
Speaker 3
So he wrote and wrote and recorded the whole thing himself. But then, I suppose as more people featured into the band and you know, they wrote stuff together, I suppose it probably changed. And you know, everyone matures and changes throughout their career. Yeah, I think I think all of that is fascinating. How how it’s different. And as you say, Coldplay have a very specific sound.

01:00:01:13 – 01:00:23:16
Speaker 3
I remember when I was when I was learning guitar, probably even later than that, when I was teaching guitar with my guitar teacher was a chuckled. Adrian Rose is a phenomenal guitarist, a really nice guy, and I still see him every so often nowadays and he I remember saying to him at one point about he said something about Manic Street Preachers.

01:00:23:16 – 01:00:39:24
Speaker 3
I said, The thing about Manic Street preachers, as all their songs sound the same. And he said, Yeah, but it’s good song. I just it just took me a moment. I was like, Oh yeah, it is a good song, but.

01:00:40:14 – 01:00:40:17
Speaker 2
It’s.

01:00:41:18 – 01:00:45:23
Speaker 3
There’s one good song repeated again and again throughout all the albums. But, you know.

01:00:46:04 – 01:00:46:23
Speaker 2
You get, you get.

01:00:47:04 – 01:01:03:12
Speaker 3
You know you do get some some bands are much more same in their music, you know as it goes through it rather than you know other bands have a bit of to it but there’s always the sound and there was always a sound like you hear a song, you go, Oh, this is whoever you can tell on you go the majority.

01:01:03:12 – 01:01:04:17
Speaker 2
Yes, He’s adamant.

01:01:05:06 – 01:01:06:00
Speaker 3
Yes. Yeah.

01:01:06:14 – 01:01:09:01
Speaker 2
With his teeth, with his two drums set.

01:01:09:01 – 01:01:12:01
Speaker 3
So yeah that was was.

01:01:12:01 – 01:01:15:03
Speaker 2
That Prince George for Sandymount yet Prince Charming. Yeah.

01:01:15:03 – 01:01:18:18
Speaker 3
Well, Adam who’s sorry I’ve done that’s way beyond my time, I should say.

01:01:18:19 – 01:01:20:04
Speaker 2
Adam who? Yeah. Thanks, Doug.

01:01:22:04 – 01:01:39:19
Speaker 2
Quick, quick, quick. Backtrack. Yeah. So this weather. Yeah. I was going to say, weather weathers is a link to the follow up question here. A follow up question is, if you could meet somebody, if you’d given the opportunity to sit down over a cup of tea or a pint of beer, who not get to sit down and me.

01:01:39:19 – 01:01:59:12
Speaker 3
So this is interesting. I was on another podcast a few weeks ago and I was worrying. Everything I said was going to be exactly the same. So I’ve tried to mix it up and throw a few extra different words. And so that so it’s a very different answer to a similar question though slightly different. So believe or not, it’s not a musician.

01:02:00:22 – 01:02:14:21
Speaker 3
And the question then was about a dinner party with three people, whereas obviously this is one on one. So I thought about this again and I think it’d be Ryan Reynolds. So really random One.

01:02:15:09 – 01:02:16:12
Speaker 2
Is a Canadian actor.

01:02:16:23 – 01:02:29:12
Speaker 3
Canadian actor who played Deadpool just because I think he is, he is hilarious and I would love to get to know if that’s actually what you know. You see, we were watching the Wrexham AFC program because you know he’s.

01:02:29:12 – 01:02:29:24
Speaker 2
Bought.

01:02:30:08 – 01:02:30:18
Speaker 3
Wrexham.

01:02:30:18 – 01:02:32:14
Speaker 2
AFC Yeah, yeah.

01:02:32:17 – 01:02:56:03
Speaker 3
Bought it with it Yeah. With Rob McElhenney and and so he’s bought this Welsh football club this very and you know the whole series is about how he’s how he’s doing but he just comes across as a really funny guy. But there was a scene in that where he’s in the pub with this this Welsh guy and he said something, you know, just being funny, like he, like he seems to be a less Welsh guy.

01:02:56:03 – 01:03:13:08
Speaker 3
Obviously took quite a lot of offense to it. And I thought, is that going to be he’s going to be swinging at him, not thinking bloody. Oh, this is a this is quite interesting, but I just think it’ll be a very funny guy as long as he didn’t turn it on. You and yeah, it just, it just funny seeing this, this working class lad from Wales came pissy with Ryan Reynolds.

01:03:13:08 – 01:03:37:23
Speaker 3
Just really abused me. If I know, maybe it’s him and this, you know, this scene. But yeah, I think he’d be a really interesting person to meet. And he’s quite funny. And if you look at his Twitter feed and Instagram and social media stuff with his wife, Blake Lively, they’re always ribbing each other quite badly. And I think that’s, you know, you you know, I try not to get into that kind of spats online with my wife because I know I’ll lose.

01:03:38:19 – 01:03:49:15
Speaker 3
But yeah, it seems quite amusing. Yeah, I’ll lose one way or another, whether it’s online or in real life, I will always lose doubt.

01:03:49:16 – 01:04:09:21
Speaker 2
I’ve enjoyed your company immensely. So you’ll always be pretty funny. Always, always got great stories. I think the way you are so relaxed in your outlook with everything is is a credit to you. I think the music has a big influence on that. Also, I think it’s a it’s good stuff. So I.

01:04:09:21 – 01:04:11:22
Speaker 3
Think you say that I’m like a swan.

01:04:11:23 – 01:04:12:06
Speaker 2
Broach.

01:04:13:14 – 01:04:18:16
Speaker 3
Like this underwater. Yeah, I look relaxed on the surface, but actually in here it’s all going round.

01:04:19:07 – 01:04:25:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s so many of itself. So I really should get dug to ideology. Podcast song.

01:04:26:04 – 01:04:58:02
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I was on, I did a podcast with two guys, Stuart Campbell and Michael Tang up in Scotland. So they, they did a podcast. I did that with them right before road, before the lockdown, and since then they’ve asked me to do a few songs to put on. So a few of their podcasts had had me doing a doing doing tunes, and one of them, the Scottish guys, and they, they asked me to do the same jeans by remember the band, the Scottish band.

01:04:58:02 – 01:05:07:20
Speaker 3
Anyway, and I did this very Scottish song as the intro to one of their podcasts. So yeah, I’m not sure I’d increase the listeners in any way, shape or form.

01:05:08:03 – 01:05:13:19
Speaker 2
But oh, you know, two Scottish bands. I think it’s The Vacationers and the Bay City Rollers. So yeah.

01:05:14:10 – 01:05:17:22
Speaker 3
The Proclaimers Do you say The Proclaimers first.

01:05:18:06 – 01:05:19:17
Speaker 2
So that you’re.

01:05:19:23 – 01:05:31:23
Speaker 3
Going to. On a bit? Yeah. Okay. I, I thought, I thought you said something other than Proclaimers. I thought you call Mr. Proclaimers on that one. Yeah, No, but yeah, The Proclaimers. I can’t think the name of them. Yeah, the same jeans.

01:05:33:06 – 01:05:44:03
Speaker 2
Oh, could it be? Well, I suppose they’re Scottish, are they? I think not. A short was where we from? Texas. She was a she Scottish, the Scottish Football and.

01:05:45:02 – 01:05:45:23
Speaker 3
Lewis Capaldi.

01:05:46:01 – 01:05:46:15
Speaker 2
Ish bands.

01:05:46:24 – 01:05:47:21
Speaker 3
Lewis Capaldi.

01:05:48:03 – 01:05:50:08
Speaker 2
Oh yeah. That’s true. Yeah. He’s Scottish. So I said.

01:05:50:11 – 01:06:13:02
Speaker 3
This is so funny. Funny stories. Um, so I was, um, there was something about Lewis Capaldi on, on, on telly or use on those a picture of me or something. I turned to my nurse and said, Lewis Capaldi’s a funny looking one, isn’t he? And she just burst out laughing and said, one said, Oh my, my, my sister’s boyfriend thinks he looks like you.

01:06:14:12 – 01:06:16:06
Speaker 2
I just, ah.

01:06:16:15 – 01:06:36:06
Speaker 3
I self burn that rare. And the other one that happens is, oh he said, I was in Alton Towers and I was walking along in Alton Towers and this guy said to me, Oh, could you tell me what he just sees me about? Can you tell me the way to the end? Oh, my God, You look just like James Corden.

01:06:36:06 – 01:06:49:14
Speaker 3
And I said, Where did you want to go? Go? And I said, He said, Oh, whichever. Right? I said, It’s up there. No, I don’t. And just walked off. He said, as if that’s ever something you say to someone and plug it. You look just like James Corden. Great, Thanks. So it looked like James Corden and.

01:06:49:14 – 01:06:51:10
Speaker 2
Lewis especially showed X5.

01:06:51:18 – 01:07:05:16
Speaker 3
Yeah, a six foot five. James Corden. Lewis Capaldi mash up who ends up in the end looking just like Alan Jones. So I don’t know. I mean, the celebrity lookalikes, I’ve never, never brought picked up.

01:07:06:15 – 01:07:11:12
Speaker 2
So. No, no, no, no. You got lots of options on that. She’s good.

01:07:11:20 – 01:07:17:23
Speaker 3
Exactly. And none of them particularly flattering, sadly.

01:07:17:23 – 01:07:27:00
Speaker 2
And on that one on that show. Yeah. Yeah. I think we should go back to our very honest. To be honest, I think that was a much better. We can finish.

01:07:27:01 – 01:07:29:17
Speaker 3
It. If someone told me I look like Ryan Reynolds.

01:07:29:21 – 01:07:31:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:31:15 – 01:07:35:03
Speaker 3
Yeah. And then there’s lot of guys that look just like Ryan in speak. Yeah.

01:07:35:10 – 01:07:45:06
Speaker 2
Perfect. Perfect. What a day for them. As opposed to. Yeah, that sounded like it. Deflating. Oh yeah.

01:07:46:11 – 01:07:49:03
Speaker 3
That’s yeah. A Lewis Capaldi esque.

01:07:49:19 – 01:07:56:09
Speaker 2
Thank you. James Corden. Yeah, well, don’t go. But.

01:07:57:05 – 01:08:00:08
Speaker 3
You know, a good singer and a funny guy. I can take it.

01:08:01:07 – 01:08:11:13
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It’s been a it’s been a blast to take that. Thank you very much. A lot. Say we know you, we know you busy. We’ve got a lot going on. So it’s been a it’s been a fabulous chat.

01:08:11:14 – 01:08:21:16
Speaker 1
Thank you. Listening to this episode of Technology where we discuss the business of dentistry, if you like what you heard, please do subscribe where you found this episode. That would be amazing. And also follow us on Instagram.