Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Ed Calvert
Episode Release Date – Monday 4 November 2024
Andy & Chris (00:04.367)
Are you I’m good. I’m very good actually looking forward to yet another podcast. Yeah. Yeah, it’s The weeks keep rolling back don’t they and it’s it’s amazing how many interesting people are in dentistry And when we talk to see whether guests will come on but no, I don’t want to listen to me. I nothing interesting Yeah, that’s right. But
Ed Calvert (00:17.918)
you
Andy & Chris (00:26.991)
When you then start having the conversations you realize that everybody’s got a backstory. There’s always something interesting. mean how many have we done over 150 or so? Yeah, I don’t think we’ve ever had a single duffer. No No, no pressure. I was gonna say that’s that’s really putting pressure on today’s guest, isn’t it? let’s let’s jump into it and introduce our guest today. So today we’ve got ed calvert joining us and ed is
Ed Calvert (00:33.465)
.
Andy & Chris (00:50.293)
Accounting executive at dental monitoring and dental monitoring provides orthodontic monitoring tools using AI and he’s also a lovely guy and a great networker and and to his credit That’s how this whole kind of connection with us started. He kind of messaged and said look kind of come and have a chat you reached out Yeah, out. That’s a very that’s a very this word doesn’t yeah Yeah, that’s kind of up there with sort of idea showers. I’m reach out to you. Always makes me laugh
Ed Calvert (00:59.629)
I’m doing very well. Thanks for having me on. It’s interesting that you’re bringing up networking and things because when I think of that, and I’m sure a lot of people would agree,
Andy & Chris (01:16.491)
Anyway, we’re amusing between ourselves and we should have a chat to our guest. Welcome Ed, how you doing?
Ed Calvert (01:29.584)
It’s you two that come to mind in dentistry. yeah, could learn a lot from you two about the art of networking.
Andy & Chris (01:36.559)
I think that’s how Andy is yet aren’t a network. I just happen to wander in My I think networking Sometimes he’s kind of misunderstood because chatting I think chatting is networking I think I think people it’s familiar. It’s it’s networking with purpose It’s it’s and that then builds relationships I think networking literally just means walking to a room and chatting and seeing people but unless there’s a purpose behind why you’re doing it and you’re you’re building a
Ed Calvert (01:38.538)
Yeah.
Ed Calvert (02:01.217)
you
Andy & Chris (02:06.295)
a kind of a spider web of people that you know and how it all joins together. I think you’ve got to be careful just going to events for the sake of going to the event. think you’ve got to, you know, there’s always got pressures on our time and you need to look and be like, okay, if I go there, what’s the reason? What’s the purpose for this network? Or with the intent to sell? think people go wrong, isn’t it? Sometimes they rock up because they’re going to go because they can try and sell you something. And the answer is that’s not really what…
For me, networking is talking to someone because you know, there may be an opportunity at some time. Yeah. And purpose doesn’t have to mean setting. Does No, that’s right. You can go into a room to learn, to better understand people, to build relationships. I think on the setting point, we smell those people from a hundred yards. You know, if someone’s making a beeline for you, it’s like, what they’re going to sell me. When they look at you and point.
Ed Calvert (02:35.085)
You
Ed Calvert (02:58.945)
Yeah, it’s definitely a challenge for you. Cause obviously I am in sales, but I also, I’m walking down the street and you you, said it, you can see them a mile off commission breath or whatever you call it. just.
Andy & Chris (03:09.284)
Yeah.
Ed Calvert (03:11.51)
pull away from it. And so it’s always something I’m considering when I’m doing my day job. How can I go about this potentially turn out a bit value, but not here, not going in trying to do a hard sell essentially trying to see it would be a good fit for someone or not.
Andy & Chris (03:23.375)
Absolutely before we get into the the world of dentistry, which is the one that we we live in Quite a large part of our time There’s clues to who we are from our childhood So can we kind of roll back to the young ed and give us an insight to? What your childhood was like, know, where was your upbringing family life? Just give us this little context in terms of who you are. Yeah, are you edward or edwin?
Ed Calvert (03:48.551)
Yes So I’m Edward’s but typically that that gives me a bit of I don’t know PTSD is definitely not the right word But when I hear Edward, I feel like this is when I’m getting told off So if anyone says Edward Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It gives me a bit of the fear. And so most people add or Eddie informally but
Andy & Chris (03:59.343)
We’ve suddenly become your parents.
Ed Calvert (04:09.322)
Yeah, I grew up in, not everyone knows it. So I say I grew up near Blackpool because most people know Blackpool in a place called Libam. So yeah, yeah. So you know it. Yeah, it’s a nice little town, but kind of famous maybe for the golf course. And probably a lot of people go there to retire. So it’s not the most interesting place in the world, but it’s also quite nice. Had a pretty uneventful
Andy & Chris (04:18.586)
we didn’t see an ends. A golf course. Yeah, golf course.
Andy & Chris (04:26.745)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (04:30.063)
And die.
Ed Calvert (04:37.875)
childhood, you know, I don’t think I’ve got any sort of traumas as per say that I’m aware of. I had it fairly easy, youngest of four. So I was six years after my brother and then I’ve got a sister that’s eight years old and a sister that’s 10 years older. So I was an accident. You know, I got told I was an accident. a gift. Yeah, a good accident.
Andy & Chris (04:53.293)
Wow.
Andy & Chris (04:57.721)
Or a gift. think a gift is… You’re a gift more than an accident. Who wants to be known as an accident? Edd the Accident Calver. That’s a nicer phrase,
Ed Calvert (05:05.449)
Yeah, yeah, a gift, we’ll go with a gift. So I had a little bit of a, I guess the best of both worlds, I had my siblings, but also, you know, almost a bit like only child in some ways, because I was a bit later. But yeah, all fairly straightforward. My dad is a doctor, psychiatrist, and my brother ended up being a doctor. And then my mom was a primary school teacher, and my sisters became teachers.
Andy & Chris (05:08.259)
Yeah, it’s much better.
Andy & Chris (05:17.903)
Hmm.
Ed Calvert (05:33.853)
So it was like medical or teachers. And then I was kind of a bit of an anomaly with the direction I went in, but I obviously didn’t go into either those.
Andy & Chris (05:43.204)
Yeah.
I mean, we’ll come on to that later, but that’s fascinating in itself because knowing the work that you do, you’re kind of in healthcare on the dental side, but not the medical side. But also lot of the work that you do is education-based in that you’re having to educate a market. Smooth. I like that. I say, whilst- A combo. Yeah, on face value, looks like you’ve kind of done your own thing, but it may be that you’ve actually kind of grabbed a bit from each of them and melded it into something that kind of suits you. It’s a hybrid.
Yeah, yeah.
Ed Calvert (06:14.512)
Yeah, I hadn’t thought of it that way, the medical side a little bit, but yeah, never really the education. yeah, interesting. I’d never thought of it like that before.
Andy & Chris (06:22.829)
Yeah, yeah, this is like therapy, isn’t it? Having these conversations, they’re wonderful. And then the detour before you got into dentistry is you studied physiotherapy at university.
Ed Calvert (06:33.884)
Yes, I did. it came again, a little bit like thinking, I’m bit interested in medical, the medical side. I think when I was growing up, I played football rugby, cricket, quite sporty. And I thought in my head, I want to be like, you know, Man United, sort of physio sports, physiotherapist or something that I don’t know where that came from. But yeah, just before I knew it, I’d applied to do physiotherapy and also at university for that, they paid some of your tuition fees.
Andy & Chris (06:49.743)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (07:02.169)
Bye.
Ed Calvert (07:02.729)
So it was a bit of another reason to look at it. So I went into it. I looked about 12 when I was 18. I really, I mean, I looked very young when I was younger.
Andy & Chris (07:09.325)
Hey.
Andy & Chris (07:14.155)
You ID’d every pub you went to.
Ed Calvert (07:16.393)
100 I used to get so nervous even when I was like 22 and I was old enough I would be walking up to a pub like I’m gonna get ID’d. So yeah, absolutely. So that was a bit tricky. But so I was just quite immature both to do physically and probably mentally when I went to university, 18, looking about 12. But anyway, I did the physiotherapy. And it was kind of, I enjoyed it but
Andy & Chris (07:23.119)
Wow. Challenge 25, you’re screwed. Yeah.
Andy & Chris (07:35.609)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (07:39.771)
You
Ed Calvert (07:45.839)
I didn’t really get to grip to it. I qualified but I wasn’t super into it. And then I think by the end of it, it wasn’t really the career that I wanted to pursue. And at that point I spoke to my brother. Three years, yeah, some four years.
Andy & Chris (07:49.519)
Mm-hmm.
Andy & Chris (07:59.843)
How long is this therapy at uni? I didn’t know if it was slightly extended because it was healthcare related.
Ed Calvert (08:07.835)
Yeah, sometimes some places is for years, but they did it three years. did Newcastle, Northumbria. but yeah, so after my brother was working actually with a rep, and the medical device side, and he was like, I don’t think, you know, you like medical. I think this might suit you some personality. And that’s, I met that person and that’s kind of how I transitioned into a medical sales role.
Andy & Chris (08:10.829)
But… But…
Andy & Chris (08:34.086)
So did you ever practice Physiotherapy at all? Did you graduate and then went straight off into another tangent?
Ed Calvert (08:39.145)
Yeah, so I graduated and I never practiced. So I qualified and never practiced, which I think some people… It’s interesting because about half my friends practiced and then half went in different directions on the physio course. But yeah, I still get asked today when people find out, know, can you give me a massage or do you… I didn’t know anything then and I don’t know anything now, certainly. So… Go on, go on.
Andy & Chris (08:43.3)
Wow.
Andy & Chris (08:51.472)
that’s interesting.
Andy & Chris (09:02.735)
Can I say that’s nothing to do with physiotherapy, mate? Just see who’s been that soothing individual. Does it come as part of dental monitoring? I was just thinking about the profession. That’s a problem, isn’t it? It’s USP. Yeah. But I was thinking if a hundred people go on a physiotherapy course, only half of them actually then ever apply it as a technical skill. we need another…
Ed Calvert (09:08.623)
Yeah, going off topic, but yeah.
Andy & Chris (09:29.999)
thousand physiotherapists in the country. You need to actually get 2000 through the system because half of them just aren’t going to take it into… It would be interesting wouldn’t it to know why they didn’t. Yeah. You know what is it that is such a high at the end of three years people going, no that’s not for me. You know is it financial? Is it that they didn’t enjoy it? I don’t know, it’d interesting actually.
Ed Calvert (09:38.365)
Yeah.
Ed Calvert (09:45.415)
Yeah. Yeah, it might be different now. I qualified in 2006 and there weren’t that many junior posts available as well as another area. Maybe there are more now, but yeah, I don’t know what the uptake’s like, but for me, I just felt it wasn’t where I wanted to, it wasn’t the direction I really wanted to go into after that.
Andy & Chris (10:08.395)
So medical devices. Can I just say it always makes me laugh medical devices. What is a medical device? That’s got to be the next question. leg. Is that a medical device? was going to say we’re going to have to dig in. that seems a very broad brush catchall phrase. So what specific area of medical devices were you, I might be asking this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We should have maybe asked this question before.
Ed Calvert (10:28.105)
Yeah. Yeah. You might need to send to this next bit out. So. So I went through some graduate recruitment thing and ended up moving to Edinburgh, so I had the option of a graduate role in the North West where I’m from. Edinburgh. I just decided Edinburgh got voted good place to live. I’ll try that. So.
Andy & Chris (10:37.485)
Yeah, exactly. So what part of the medical world were you in?
Andy & Chris (10:53.145)
Yeah, nice place.
Ed Calvert (10:55.451)
It was actually in surgical devices. you know, was laparoscopic devices, which are essentially a keyhole surgery and mainly anything between sort of the, I guess, the head and the body. So it would be some colorectal things and very unusual things. And I had to go to Paris for four weeks to train because I needed to know what, how the surgery was done. And it was very interesting, but it was super awkward because we would
Andy & Chris (11:02.132)
Okay.
Andy & Chris (11:07.566)
Right.
Andy & Chris (11:14.019)
Wow.
Andy & Chris (11:17.529)
So very very niche then.
Ed Calvert (11:22.715)
Yeah, they would be doing operations on animals. And I think they’ve changed it all now, but at the time it was was done that way for surgeons to get used to doing procedures and things. But I remember, again, I looked very young and I remember coming after that training and going out, going through airports and stuff with these pieces of equipment that looked very dodgy, to put it lightly.
Andy & Chris (11:27.661)
Right. Nice.
Ed Calvert (11:52.681)
getting asked what this was and me trying to explain that this was used for colorectal surgery. Yeah, was a bit of an odd…
Andy & Chris (12:00.889)
I bet I bet that was a conversation stopper. It was probably the leather chaps that were in your suitcase as well that Yeah Leather chaps and the whip
Ed Calvert (12:03.442)
Yeah, they were.
Ed Calvert (12:08.14)
The combination was getting me flagged up a lot. yeah, was quite a, yeah, very, I don’t think anyone really grows up, or maybe I’m a bit wrong, but grows up wanting to go into sales or thinking, okay, when I grow up, want to be a salesperson. So fell into it a little bit, but it’s quite interesting to be in surgery to help guide a surgeon.
Andy & Chris (12:24.08)
Mm. Mm.
Ed Calvert (12:34.619)
onto how to use your product. And hopefully that is going to help someone’s life significantly. So I did enjoy it.
Andy & Chris (12:36.9)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (12:41.903)
I tell you what probably the in a sort of bizarre way the having to explain it to a non-medical person as to what it was is probably quite a good basis for then Selling it to someone. Do you know what I mean? If you’ve got to if you’ve got to explain to someone at customs What it is who has absolutely no idea what it is in a way. I just think to myself. That’s probably not a bad you probably learned some some good tips and and
Ed Calvert (13:00.594)
Yes.
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (13:10.703)
things that you then used because you were like, okay, you understood this, so I’m gonna explain it to you in customs terms almost. But you say it about sales and people don’t naturally want to be in sales. think there needs to be a general acceptance. We’re all in sales, regardless of your job.
Ed Calvert (13:12.157)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ed Calvert (13:18.633)
They’re
Andy & Chris (13:29.359)
Whatever you’re doing in your life, you’re in sales. So whether you’re actually going out and selling a product or service, or whether you’re trying to negotiate to get your kids to eat their breakfast, or going to bed. whatever. Yeah, whatever it is. Yeah, you’re in sales. And I think because it has this kind of sort of slightly…
Ed Calvert (13:44.013)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (13:51.821)
jaded double glazing, cast salesman types. That’s where people jump to when they say sales. you know, equally what you just described is, you know, providing some expert guidance to a surgeon to get a better outcome for a patient using a medical device that you’re trained on. Another way of describing that sales.
Ed Calvert (13:54.189)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Andy & Chris (14:13.467)
And I think it’s kind of always getting over the fact that it’s okay to acknowledge that sales is actually a good thing because that kind of wants to make the economy turns around. And if you’re good at sales, it impacts so many other areas of your life as well, positively.
Ed Calvert (14:26.396)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. think so in any role I’ve ever had, as long as I believe, I genuinely believe in that product that it can help patients, a practice, someone, then that is all good with me. It might not be the right fit for everyone, but as long as I believe in what it can do for some people, I’ve seen it work for people, then I don’t have a problem. If I don’t believe in the product or the service, obviously that’s a different situation and I wouldn’t be able to do it, but
Andy & Chris (14:42.6)
Yep.
Andy & Chris (14:46.735)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No,
Ed Calvert (14:54.458)
But yeah, I agree. We’re always negotiating, trying to influence, trying to sell in our life day to day anyway.
Andy & Chris (15:00.557)
Yeah i’m always trying to get free-prong crackers when i order the chinese i tell you i can’t i can’t help myself honestly And then then your life took a slight twist back in 2017 2018 you describe it as a as an early midlife crisis. What what was the the run-up to that and how did that manifest itself?
Ed Calvert (15:04.41)
Yeah.
Ed Calvert (15:20.55)
Yes, so I’d sort of just been ticking over in a few different roles. When I moved to Scotland, I met a Scottish lady quite early on in moving there and was with her for quite a long time. Got married when I was 30. Also in my late 20s, just quite randomly out of the blue. It was very odd. I remember specifically driving across the Forth Road Bridge near Edinburgh and thinking, you know…
I’m so lucky, like, I’ve had such a of cushy life, everything’s so great, you know, it’s a sort of bit odd. And then, you know, not long later, I was just, this is, yeah, maybe too much information, but I was just in bed and I actually felt a lump. So I felt a lump on my testicle. And I thought, wow, that feels a bit weird. Bit abnormal, a bit like a walnut, if anything. And I thought, okay, a bit strange. And then my ex at the time.
Andy & Chris (15:54.29)
Ha!
Ed Calvert (16:14.594)
made me go to the GP because I wasn’t probably going to go and exactly, know, so it will be nothing. And then so I went to the GP, the GP immediately looked concerned, you know, the non-verbal was looking concerned. So I was thinking, wow, I don’t feel sick. This is all just happening very quickly. I went to get an ultrasound scan and it was, it was testicular cancer. So
Andy & Chris (16:17.696)
You have been a typical man.
Andy & Chris (16:28.995)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Ed Calvert (16:41.836)
slightly awkward and I won’t go into the full story here because it’s probably not PG but I was working in a private hospital you know in my sales capacity trying to get a surgeon to use our products or they were using some of our products and that hospital eventually had to do the procedure on me so to remove to remove the testicle in question and then they offered me an implant if I wanted it or not
Andy & Chris (16:51.993)
Right.
Andy & Chris (17:01.508)
wow.
Ed Calvert (17:08.23)
So it all happened really quickly. So that was sort of one element. then luckily I didn’t have to have chemo or anything like that, but it was because I caught it very early. Lots of blood tests, CT scans, seeing the oncology center frequently. Then after five years, they give you the all clear. And just about the timing that I had it all clear, I also got divorced. So that marriage didn’t work out.
Andy & Chris (17:16.783)
Alright.
Andy & Chris (17:26.891)
Right.
Andy & Chris (17:31.939)
Bye.
Ed Calvert (17:36.224)
at that stage I just sort of was in a bit of a low point. The career, yeah, yeah, it was quite an unusual thing. And if anything, the divorce probably impacted me more than the cancer because, you know, the cancer never really made me feel sick or anything, just it was a bit of a shock. But when I got divorced, that hit me quite hard and I actually had a job that was the best paying job I’ve ever had, loads of perks, but it just wasn’t fulfilled.
Andy & Chris (17:39.855)
Understandably, you’ve had a tough time, yeah.
Andy & Chris (17:53.987)
Right.
Ed Calvert (18:05.822)
And I did jiu-jitsu as a thing. I was doing martial arts during quite a lot of this. And I just woke up one morning and thought I’m going to get a one-way ticket and I’m going to travel around, give up my work. I’ve got some savings and do jiu-jitsu and travel around the world. And that’s why I ended up doing. So that’s my early midlife crisis.
Andy & Chris (18:22.671)
Yeah, I will.
Was that quite out of character for you to do that?
Ed Calvert (18:30.275)
A little bit, I did a little bit of travelling to Gap Yar after university. I know, yeah, it’s a bit ridiculous, but I did a little bit, but only a couple of months. So it was a bit out of my character. I’d just been sort of working away and then I just felt quite unhappy and I didn’t know whether this would help, but I just, okay, I’m 30, I think I was 35, 34, 35. And I thought I’m a bit…
Andy & Chris (18:34.031)
You can only say that one way.
Andy & Chris (18:44.174)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (18:52.217)
Hmm.
Ed Calvert (18:59.574)
older than most people I’m probably meat travelling but I’m just going to do it. Yeah, I just did over year of it. It was an interesting year.
Andy & Chris (19:10.573)
Yeah. Good for you. And where did you go? Was it literally all over?
Ed Calvert (19:14.429)
It was, it was over 20 countries and then I went to Bali, Vietnam, Japan, Thailand, then I kind of went across and did down America, Central America and South America as well. So about three weeks in each place before we then moved on.
Andy & Chris (19:17.775)
Well.
Andy & Chris (19:27.197)
Yeah
Andy & Chris (19:31.683)
But right and how did the jujitsu fit into that were you so like in competitions or something?
Ed Calvert (19:36.021)
Yeah, so yeah, I had, I don’t do jujitsu anymore since I’ve started this job really, but I used to do it quite regularly. And I had the plan that I was going to do Brazilian jujitsu in every country I went to, you know, it’s an easy way for me to meet people, experience different cultures, different practices. So I did it in Bali and then I got quite sidetracked by partying. So I kind of took a different tangent and I was going around and then I
Andy & Chris (19:51.054)
Right.
Andy & Chris (20:00.783)
I like the way you say sidetracked. It was a choice, Ed.
Ed Calvert (20:05.729)
It was a choice, yeah, and I made, I mean, it was a choice, but I got to the stage where I thought, meeting all these interesting people outside of it, and they’re wanting to go to experience the Colombian nightlife or in Japan, wherever I am. And I thought, I think I’m more interested in seeing that side than doing the Jiu-Jitsu. So, as the year went on, I did less and less Jiu-Jitsu.
Andy & Chris (20:29.069)
But yeah, did you travel? Sorry. Did you say brazilian? So what’s the difference between because I only thought of jiu-jitsu’s jiu-jitsu. So what’s brazilian jiu-jitsu? I was gonna say something really rude. I changed my mind. Yeah, I can see where you’re going. Yeah. Yeah
Ed Calvert (20:33.239)
Yes.
Ed Calvert (20:40.706)
So my understanding… I don’t know what you’re talking about. I think so, there’s traditional Jiu-Jitsu, which is probably more like Japanese, a little bit less sparring and a bit more like showing you the moves. Where Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is more like, you definitely spar, so you grapple with each other and you go 100 % if you want with sparring, but there’s no punching or kicking. It’s all like chokes, strangles, locks.
bit of wrestling, so it’s just a little bit different in the way it’s done.
Andy & Chris (21:14.159)
Right. And when you travel, did you travel on your own? I mean, I’ve never done a gap year thing, but everybody kind of says, if you’re to do it, make sure you go on your own because that’s when you get the best experience. You meet more people. Yeah. So did when you moved on to a new place, did you kind of carry anybody with you? Was anybody on the way that went, that sounds like a idea. And they joined you or was it genuinely you were just moving around as a solo?
Ed Calvert (21:20.823)
Yeah.
Ed Calvert (21:26.943)
Eh.
Ed Calvert (21:37.349)
Yeah. Yeah, so I went on my own and you saw right. What was interesting is I mainly stayed in hostels because obviously the financial element and there was some really nice ones. what was super interesting, you never knew who was going to walk in like, is that going to be a future friend? Am I going to click with them? Am I going to really find them annoying? And they’re always going on their own path. They’re going for a certain amount of time.
Andy & Chris (21:46.209)
Yep.
Andy & Chris (21:50.815)
Mmm. Yeah.
Andy & Chris (21:56.525)
Heh heh.
Ed Calvert (21:59.619)
Most people aren’t going for a year, maybe a month or three, something. So was super interesting. then you would meet people you really clicked with and then you might travel on a bit with them, a lot of bus journeys in South America. I went on my own, but I met so many people. was super interesting.
Andy & Chris (22:09.826)
Bye.
Andy & Chris (22:16.783)
there’s that sort of link to sales and networking, isn’t it? And the fact of you’re meeting so many different people that you’re, you’re clicking with them because probably even the people you don’t click with, you’ve got to be tolerant of cause you’re in a little room for, know, I know you’re not, but do you know what I mean? You’re, you’re sort of, it’s an interesting one. I think think you’ve got great communication skills and you’re likable. And I think that’s what you kind of saying that I think if you’ve got good communication skills and you’re likable, you will adapt to most situations. And you also accept.
Ed Calvert (22:31.954)
You
Andy & Chris (22:46.97)
Like I don’t like you but I’m moving on in two days so it makes no what I can tuck it out for to have a fight with you know
Ed Calvert (22:49.154)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But, no, it was, it was really good. But I did get, there was times when I got a bit lonely, you know, in Japan where there weren’t so many people. I remember being very much on my own and thinking, I’m starting to feel a little bit lonely here without other company for a few days and things like that. But,
Andy & Chris (23:00.323)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (23:09.487)
Mm.
Ed Calvert (23:09.922)
overall a really good experience and then I had to kind come back to reality which was know the funds and etc coming back and it was just before Covid so I got a job and then obviously Covid kicked in quite hard.
Andy & Chris (23:14.627)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (23:22.895)
Hmm.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And when you came back whilst you were depleted from a funds point of view, were you re-energized and, you know, had you filled your cup up in terms of how you were feeling after that year? Nice picture. I like that. That’s very good,
Ed Calvert (23:39.737)
Yeah, was interesting. Because I met someone, a girl I used to go to school with and she’s become like this big global influencer, a like a love guru, a bit of an unusual slant. And I met her in one of the countries and she’s like, you need to never go back to what you were doing. If you’re not super interested, you need to create and craft this life that you want to do. So I was like, yeah, I don’t know what that looks like. But basically what actually happened is I slipped back into exactly what I was doing before.
Andy & Chris (24:06.682)
wow. But with incense.
Ed Calvert (24:07.01)
So it was like a medical device sales role because that’s what, there’s another company before it was a German company that was starting up in the UK. So yeah, I was like heading up there first foray into the UK market and covering a big area. It was an interesting thing, but it just didn’t stimulate me. So I’m turning 40 in December. Yeah.
Andy & Chris (24:13.133)
And was that dental monitoring or was that something else?
Andy & Chris (24:25.519)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (24:29.686)
So how old are you, Ed?
He still looks good doesn’t Looking like a 12 year old For those of you who aren’t watching go to YouTube and find a young looking 40 year old clear clearly You couldn’t be early 30s because of what you just yeah exactly. That’s what I’m to work out where you were You could be I’m just intrigued that you went away because you didn’t like your life It’s quite a broad term you had your year away You met this person who said you need to change things and then you came back and you immediately slipped back into your old life
Ed Calvert (24:47.521)
I think you’re out there.
Ed Calvert (24:55.712)
Yeah.
Ed Calvert (25:02.577)
Yeah, so I did so I’ll say what the I guess when I talk about what I wasn’t happy with I guess it was the effect of the divorce it was the relation being someone with eight years and then Essentially, it was a rejection. I won’t go into too much detail But it was it was a little hard to take and yeah, and then that was really that in conjunction with a few bits
Andy & Chris (25:09.946)
Right.
Andy & Chris (25:13.678)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, yes. Don’t get emotional.
Ed Calvert (25:24.778)
But when I came back work-wise, I did get back into what I sort of knew because my CV was so, you know, almost fixed in some medical sales. there’s other opportunity. What can I, what else can I do?
Andy & Chris (25:28.815)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (25:33.878)
Yeah.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. So that was just at the beginning of covid you so that So late late 2019 would it be right? Is it by ferrari? That’s most midlife crisis. Well, this was an early midlife. that’s just he’d bought a A Mazda. you’re banking it are you banking? Are you? Are you saving for the ferrari? Yeah Yeah So so yeah, so that runs us up to kind of
Ed Calvert (25:41.608)
Just before, yeah, so,
Ed Calvert (25:49.056)
I’m due another one.
I can’t afford the Ferrari but maybe I’ll get a Lotus or something.
Andy & Chris (26:05.357)
the start of COVID. And then, so when did you join dental monitoring?
Ed Calvert (26:06.977)
Yeah.
So I actually joined dental monitoring after COVID. So I miss it. Obviously, dental monitoring and COVID is an interesting conversation in itself. But I joined after. So one of the companies I was at, there was someone that was very high up a line and they had had a bit of a career change to do some sort of sales consultation, sales consultancy. And he kind of got me onto a line to knowing about them.
Andy & Chris (26:12.855)
Right, okay.
Andy & Chris (26:18.733)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (26:37.965)
But.
Ed Calvert (26:38.148)
found quite an interesting company, know the trajectory at the time was through the roof. So that’s how I came to know a bit about Orthodontic Dental and then I saw this other company Dental Monitoring and I thought wow that’s an interesting concept.
Andy & Chris (26:42.7)
Yeah, yeah.
Andy & Chris (26:52.988)
Could you just explain, I’m sure lots of our listeners will be aware of dental monitoring and then… But a lot of them won’t. No, could you just kind of set the scene in terms of what are the services that you offer dental monitoring? Because I think that will link quite nicely to the COVID period as well. Yeah.
Ed Calvert (27:03.153)
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in a nutshell, a patient that uses dentimontion is typically in orthodontics. They get an app on their smartphone and they get a little piece of hardware that attaches to the camera. So what happens is the patient can actually scan their mouth on a weekly basis and it gives the dentist or the dentist a lot of information. So if things are going well, it may be a bit more convenient to reassurance for a patient. If things are going off track.
which sometimes they do, it alerts the practice so they can see the patient sort of at the appropriate time. And actually, obviously it’s remote, so you’re getting that information. Let’s say I’m your patient and you’re the dentist, you get information about my teeth from my home, you know, coming through to your office. So you know what’s happening remotely as well.
Andy & Chris (27:40.92)
Right, yeah.
Andy & Chris (27:56.528)
Which linking back to COVID, you can see how, I think COVID was a terrible time, but I think sometimes we overlook. Yeah, the innovations and some good things came out of it. And I think, I think as humans, we value connection more. I think we realize that being at distance and just communication digitally isn’t quite.
what humans want. Humans are designed to share the same space and it is very different. But also I think there was a real burst of acceleration with technology and dental monitoring is a great example of something that enabled patients to continue to receive treatment and be guided and advised but through a period where they weren’t able to actually visit dental practices.
Ed Calvert (28:20.322)
Okay.
Ed Calvert (28:37.63)
Yeah, yeah, 100%. It was interesting because you are very right, it accelerated for dental monitoring. think there was a huge acceleration of uptake with it because obviously you couldn’t see patients in person any other way. So there wasn’t anything else that existed. Maybe you could ask someone to take a picture basically of the mouth with the phone, but this was completely different to anything. It was a blessing and a curse because obviously it increased awareness, but
Andy & Chris (28:50.882)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (28:56.463)
Mm.
Ed Calvert (29:02.975)
We couldn’t really, at the time we had a smaller company, we couldn’t really give the service the implementation. So what actually happened is quite a lot of people used it during COVID and maybe didn’t use it properly. And then after COVID, what it left people with is thinking, this is sort of okay, we’re maybe not going to use it now. So it was a bit of a mixed bag for us. Yes, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. was a, when I started, honestly, it was.
Andy & Chris (29:08.335)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (29:23.821)
Yeah, we’re back to your mum, aren’t we? You got to do a re-education process.
Ed Calvert (29:31.504)
often going back to a lot of these practices that started during COVID and re-engaging and saying, know, yeah, now we’re out of COVID.
Andy & Chris (29:37.487)
And that’s the thing you don’t want them just to see it as being the solution for that time. Yeah. It’s like, now everything has opened up. I was, it was Lottie Manahan. I don’t think she’s in the UK anymore. I she might be over in Switzerland now. But I remember having a conversation with her and she was saying one of the biggest environmental impacts on the planet from a dentistry perspective, a patient’s visit in the dental practice, the traveling to and from the practice is the biggest
Ed Calvert (29:42.643)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (30:07.461)
environmental impact. It’s not necessarily lots of the dental element, it’s just the traveling that goes backwards and forwards. And I was talking to Aaron about this the other day because I saying that for my part, think dental monitoring is a great green solution because
Ed Calvert (30:12.722)
Yeah. Yeah.
Andy & Chris (30:23.329)
in an ideal world, probably will reduce the number of visits to a dental practice through using technology. And okay, there might be instances where somebody needs to come in perhaps a bit quicker because things aren’t working. But for lots of the patients, they’ll get the comfort that they don’t have to visit frequently because the technology is doing it for you. And the reduction in cost is just a by-product. Yes. Honest.
Ed Calvert (30:34.485)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you, yeah, you are, you are right. I spent some time in a practice this week.
just to observe the patients coming in. It was in the line of day. And my takeaway was, wow, mean, either when people are coming in, you can look at DM and you know it would all be good. So why are they coming in when they know it’s all good? Or it would pick something up that’s gone off track earlier on. So all I saw was patients coming in where either it was good and they didn’t actually need to really come in, or there’d been a problem that had occurred weeks ago that couldn’t be.
Andy & Chris (31:04.063)
Mm. Mm.
Andy & Chris (31:10.329)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (31:18.431)
Does the dentist still review the footage or whatever or is it AI generated?
Ed Calvert (31:23.953)
So it’s a combination, I always say it’s a bit of a triage tool. So again, if you were the dentist and I’m scanning, if everything was good, it comes through to your dashboard and tells you that everything is good. If something’s off track, it will alert you to look at it. So there’s a bit of a mixture to scale it up. We need AI, we need automated messages as well, but it should be a mixture if done properly.
Andy & Chris (31:38.413)
No.
Andy & Chris (31:43.033)
Yeah.
And going back what you’re saying about it was kind of for a period seen as the solution to COVID and then everybody kind of defaulted back to their ways. Where is dentistry in terms of adopting AI? Are we still very early on and it’s not quite there yet or are we at that phase where we’re getting to kind of mass adoption? What’s your take on that?
Ed Calvert (32:09.519)
So I can’t speak for AI and I know this company is like Pearl. There’s lots of AI companies out there now, but all I can say is my experience with the sort orthodontic world and AI with DM is that we talk about this technology adoption curve. So you’ve always get the early adopters.
Andy & Chris (32:14.446)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (32:21.636)
Mm.
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (32:28.717)
Hmm. Yeah.
Ed Calvert (32:31.197)
early majority and then we’ve kind of got them they’re ones that they love technology they’ll try anything and then you sort of get the people that are a little bit more unsure you know they need more evidence needs other peers to see other peers using it so we’re kind of at that phase now in the UK I would say maybe about one in three specialists use it so there’s still not huge adoption huge market penetration because I think some people
Andy & Chris (32:37.281)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (32:42.775)
Mm. Yep.
Ed Calvert (33:01.764)
Well, actually, most people have done things the same way for a while, earning good money, getting good outcomes, yeah, change. The status quo is our competitor with this, you know, is how do you get more people to start using it and seeing the value, not just for the practice, but for the patient. So yeah, we’re not quite where we want to be in the future, but we’re on quite a fast acceleration curve with adoption as well.
Andy & Chris (33:04.865)
Yeah, change.
Andy & Chris (33:13.967)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (33:18.486)
Yeah. Yeah.
Andy & Chris (33:27.379)
Hmm. It’s an interesting one. You could almost I don’t know if you could actually it might be against the law But I was thinking you could almost price differentiate couldn’t you could say look you can have a you can have one where you always come in to see me but it costs you five thousand or I can use a remote one which cost you four thousand it’s an interesting one
Ed Calvert (33:43.088)
It’s super interesting you bring that up Chris because I have only been with Denton Monitor just under two and a half years and I’ve only a few weeks ago someone said that to me they were like I offer two options Chris if you want to have your traditional see me every six weeks it’s 5,000 you use Denton Monitoring it’s less, 4,800 but they realised the value of their time.
Andy & Chris (33:58.575)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (34:04.717)
Yeah, I think on differential pricing, I think you’d be okay because it’s a different service because I don’t know not offering the same service for a different price and also must be compliant. I mean it must be clinically okay, you know to be regarded otherwise you wouldn’t have a job. It wouldn’t work. Do you know what mean? So it’s going to be and it’s regarded as a proper proper clinical diagnostic tool. That’s tricky. So therefore why not?
Ed Calvert (34:22.307)
Yeah.
Ed Calvert (34:29.263)
Mm-hmm.
Andy & Chris (34:31.859)
incentivize people not to come in. always got the option that should it report something that doesn’t look right, isn’t on track, you’ve always got the option for the clinician to step in. It’s not just telling you exactly how it’s going to be with no backup. There’s always going to be a clinician involved in that process.
Ed Calvert (34:50.003)
Yeah, yeah, 100%. Actually, yeah, what we say in our, what we tell practices to say to their patients is we use it, we’re looking at your teeth every week. Practices down the road, we’ll be looking maybe every eight weeks at what’s happening, but we’re going to look every week.
Andy & Chris (35:00.216)
Hmm.
Ed Calvert (35:05.468)
And you’re right, we also, a bit of a misconception with a bit of the smile direct side of things, which is like, you know, we never see you, but we give you all the aligners, for example, and we won’t see you, which is massively off the truth. Some patients you need to see more and it will alert you to who those patients are. So like Andy, if you’ve got lots of problems, I actually want to see you every three weeks. But Chris has no issues. We’re going to see him, you know, four times across his journey. So.
Andy & Chris (35:12.015)
Mmm.
Andy & Chris (35:20.961)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (35:27.996)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andy & Chris (35:31.809)
me. I haven’t got any teeth.
Ed Calvert (35:35.596)
So yeah, he’ll pick up on this because you don’t have any teeth as well. yeah, we’ve you covered. But yeah, basically we overall as a business, fortunately, most patients are quite good. So it does free up that time. But that’s how we work as a sort of as a model.
Andy & Chris (35:38.991)
It’s handy.
Andy & Chris (35:47.075)
Hmm. Hmm.
It’s cool. It’s cool. And I just think for all of us being involved in a profession where there is new ideas, innovation, investment, because once you start going further and further up the tree, you you want to make sure that you’re in a profession that’s getting the attention of the people who are looking to make significant investments for the future and where you see innovation, new ideas, them being adopted by the profession. That’s good news because that’s what brings money into the profession, which is good for everybody.
Ed Calvert (36:09.721)
Yeah.
Ed Calvert (36:19.177)
Yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s an interesting, it’s a challenging role. mean, last year versus this year, found that I’m doing kind of the same activity, but it’s, it’s felt harder because I everyone’s looking at the numbers, the costs arising, concerned about sort of macroeconomics, whatever is happening. So it’s felt more challenging. So, but I think
Andy & Chris (36:32.244)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (36:37.25)
Yeah, yeah.
Ed Calvert (36:42.883)
I can just imagine, I think every treatment will be monitored in the future. That’s my thought, maybe it will be 5, 10 years, but I can’t see how they would monitor all treatments in the future.
Andy & Chris (36:46.095)
Mmm.
Andy & Chris (36:51.362)
Yeah, it’s a real interesting one isn’t it because in a way for all of you dentists listening It’s that thing about understanding business in a way, you know that whilst dental monitoring might be a cost the actual saving That your saving is balanced against cost and then surely if you’re doing less time that means you can do more hands-on work, which is then a
Ed Calvert (37:09.214)
Okay.
Andy & Chris (37:17.579)
an income generator, I think, I think, you know, going back to what we’ve known over the years and you know, you know, you know, they focus on a cost of something without necessarily saying, well, hang on a minute, look around that cost. think there’s kind of the status quo muscle memory, you know, we all, we all do things the same way because we’ve done it for years and we don’t always go back and go.
Ed Calvert (37:29.995)
Yeah. Yeah.
Andy & Chris (37:42.735)
could I do that another way? you’re disrupting a market that’s well established, well known, and it’s quite repetitive in its work. So when people are very comfortable doing something a certain way, introducing a new way of working is quite challenging. Well, it’s a bit like, isn’t it? I mean, it’s going off a bit of a tangent really. But people with dentures, know, that a lot of dentists dislike dentures big time, but only because they historically think of
Ed Calvert (37:56.127)
Yeah, yeah.
Andy & Chris (38:09.727)
NHS dentures rather than actually really high quality, expensive dentures that are very profitable. It’s trying to almost change people’s mindsets, isn’t it?
Ed Calvert (38:20.447)
Yeah, it’s an interesting area. I’ve always thought in my roles that I have to, like you say, it’s a muscle memory and you’re only really going to change unless you sort of identify yourself that there’s a problem or a big enough upside to make a switch. think unless someone acknowledges that there are issues and it could be done a better way, you’re never going to change how they work. It’s the same in my own life. I’m trying to promote change, but I don’t really like change that much in my own life.
Andy & Chris (38:34.404)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (38:40.841)
No.
Andy & Chris (38:46.031)
Inertia. We’re all caught in inertia. And also I think as humans, typically only buy things for two reasons. It’s greed or fear. And I guess what’s going to happen is, and fear tends to be a more powerful motivator than greed. And if, it starts to come through the profession in greater numbers, the fear will be you’re going to get left behind.
Ed Calvert (39:08.851)
Yes.
Andy & Chris (39:09.039)
And I think that’s when you’ll start to get the mass adoption and perhaps some of the, an unkind term, but some of the dinosaurs of the profession that have done it in an old fashioned way and don’t want to change, having to change. Yeah. Traditionalists. A kind of word, but that, think, I think that, that, that will be something that we could come through. Ed, it’s been, it’s been wonderful. We’ve, we’ve, we’ve certainly covered some ground, haven’t we? We started and did some ends. went to…
Ed Calvert (39:18.521)
Yeah. Yeah, that was a point.
Andy & Chris (39:33.071)
Edinburgh we got to Bali and Japan and Brazil we went through your own Jiu-Jitsu Exactly your own career, but we can’t let you go 40. Yeah, exactly looks about 12 exactly Yeah, the 28 year old looking 40 you get ID’d at all now
Ed Calvert (39:42.661)
Yeah
Ed Calvert (39:47.578)
No, unfortunately not. I go, my wife, Ashlyn, she sometimes go to the supermarket and now I’ve started to, they sometimes, someone said, is that your dad? And I was like, I don’t know. So it’s switched. Like that’s, yeah, it’s changed. Yeah, that wasn’t good. And someone also asked, my brother was convinced, my brother’s 46 and he’s convinced he looks younger than me now. And so they asked at the supermarket again and they were weighing up who looks older and they picked me.
Andy & Chris (39:57.679)
dear me, that must have hurt.
Andy & Chris (40:15.407)
think that’s always awkward. solution for that Ed, going by yourself and Harley-Davidson. That fixes everything. His wife’s 18 though. So to finish up Ed, you’re a fly on a wall in a situation. Who’s there and where are you if you’re given the chance?
Ed Calvert (40:20.573)
You
Yeah, I didn’t mention that.
Ed Calvert (40:35.581)
Yeah, so it’s going to sound a bit sad. was reflecting on who that might be with, but because I’m so invested in dental monitoring and the dental world and the future of it, I think I would love to be maybe in some of the big companies’ boardrooms to when they’re talking about the future pipeline strategy, that sort just to understand where this whole market’s going. I think to me that would be very interesting. I know that’s maybe not so profound, but…
Andy & Chris (40:58.467)
Yeah.
Ed Calvert (41:03.789)
just more of the gossipy side of me.
Andy & Chris (41:04.963)
No It’s relevant relevant it is it is and and you’re right because that’s where those those embryonic ideas start that will Manifest themselves in product services in you know, two three five years Elon Musk. Yeah, send a big rocket that lands back and get caught. Yeah That’s never gonna happen. chopsticks thing. yeah. Yeah, I mean stuff like that. Amazing mad and if you could
Ed Calvert (41:21.169)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was wild,
Andy & Chris (41:29.571)
meet somebody and sit down with them and have a coffee or a glass of wine or a beer. I’m to intrigued in this one.
Ed Calvert (41:33.912)
Yeah, so this one, so Ashlyn, my wife grew up in Argentina and then she moved to South Africa and grew up there. So, but the person I would probably want to meet would be her dad. So he passed away when she was 14. But to be honest, he passed away think when he was 41 or 42, but had such a such a busy life sound like such a big character. wrote a book.
Andy & Chris (41:39.983)
in the HGY.
Andy & Chris (41:48.233)
wow.
Andy & Chris (41:55.152)
Cheers!
Ed Calvert (42:01.144)
He emigrated from Argentina to South Africa without being able to speak English. He did all sorts of things in the Air Force as an engineer and just really big character and I think it would be just really interesting to have had the opportunity to have met him. So I think that’s who I would choose.
Andy & Chris (42:14.991)
Mmm
It’s always fascinating when you hear of people that pass away very young and they cram so much in to their lives. My wife, one of her kind of uncles, he died in his forties. But when you listen to the stuff he did, he bought and renovated hotels. He tried to get a care home off the ground. He had loads of different businesses. And you just think, geez, like, you if you think that most people don’t really kind of join the world until they’re about
Ed Calvert (42:31.499)
you
Ed Calvert (42:37.789)
Hmm
Andy & Chris (42:49.105)
20 and these people have kind of gone by the time they’ve hit 40 that’s not long and they get so much done they’re quite remarkable characters.
Ed Calvert (42:56.748)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. It makes me feel a little bit guilty about, you know, what I’ve managed to fit in. Some people just have managed to squeeze a lot into their time and fair play to those that do it.
Andy & Chris (43:08.375)
Yeah, I think it’s inspiring but also I think we should also live our own life. I don’t think we should feel Necessarily pressure when we look at other people. I think they say like I’ve done too bad. They were there years traveling I was gonna say it to me. It sounds like you’ve built a load of great life experiences in there, which is which is good Lots of pictures, I hope
Ed Calvert (43:15.145)
Yeah.
Ed Calvert (43:19.925)
Yeah, yeah, that was it.
Ed Calvert (43:25.087)
Yeah, yeah, I did. I did have I did post quite a lot of my private Instagram for a while, but then think people got sick of it. seeing me just travelling around and yeah, I don’t think they were living the same sort of life. So probably.
Andy & Chris (43:42.071)
Yeah jealous. That’s what it is. were jealousy jealousy ed. Thank you for your time. It’s been wonderful. It’s been a really really enjoyable conversation keep well and no doubt we’ll be bumping into another very soon at an event or something to do with dentistry soon Yeah, brilliant. Thanks ed. Look after yourself. Cheers man. Cheers ed. Take care
Ed Calvert (43:47.133)
Thanks for having me on.
Ed Calvert (43:54.901)
Perfect. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Cheers, right?
