Dentology Podcast with George Vernon

Transcript – Dentology Podcast with George Vernon

Episode Release Date – Monday 18 November 2024

Andy & Chris (00:01.476)
Here we are again. It’s Monday morning. It’s seven o’clock. So that must mean I rent it’s a podcast time. I think it might be I’m looking for the forward this one because this is going to be a healthy Podcast see what I did there nicely done linked all together with working exactly There should be some good nuggets in this actually for a profession that suffers from terribly bad backs and terribly bad necks I think so I think so so let’s introduce our guests and we’ll have our conversation. So today we’re joined by

George Vernon and George is a health and wellness coach. How you doing, George? You well?

George Vernon (00:33.91)
Very, well, Andy, Chris, thank you both for having me on. I seriously appreciate it.

Andy & Chris (00:38.364)
Now we’re looking forward to having the conversation. think as Chris was saying, it’s right. The profession suffers. It’s not a particularly mobile job. They don’t kind of get their steps in because they’re in a surgery. Sometimes they’re grabbing food in a 15, 20 minute slot in the afternoon that might end up being a meal deal, which probably isn’t great. There’s lots of things that are kind of conspiring against them to stay kind of healthy and fit in the more…

holistic sense. So it’d nice to have a conversation to find out a bit more about things they can do. But to start with George, there’s often clues from our childhood to lead us to what the people we are today. Go back to your childhood. Tell us what your upbringing was like. Where was that? What did it look like?

George Vernon (01:23.394)
Yeah, so funnily enough, I’ve literally, still in the same village as I’ve always lived in, moved down the road with my girlfriend. We’re living together in the centre of the village now and above a coffee shop that we both used to go to after school. So I’ve been with my girlfriend for 10 plus years now. But to reverse all the way back to my childhood, it was a very good one, fantastic one. The thing for me, because people often look for limitations in childhood, they’re kind of…

is what allow you to be successful and excel a little bit later on. Probably came more from a fear element and I’m not sure if anybody who’s listening can relate but I was always a little bit more on the anxious side, a little bit more on the fearful side at school and even though I did have a fantastic childhood that was just something that was just always there. I’m not quite sure why. I’m sure if I spent hours with a psychiatrist they’d tell me.

Andy & Chris (01:54.931)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (02:15.374)
Yeah, some trauma occurred somewhere along the line.

George Vernon (02:19.394)
But I mean, yes, it was always a more fearful element and that for me was alleviated through my time boxing. So I kind of see my childhood as before boxing and then after boxing was kind of the two splits that I see it as. And before boxing, I was very quiet. I worried a lot. I was far more reserved. Whereas after boxing, boxing gave me that vehicle to move away from that fear.

Andy & Chris (02:34.069)
Okay

Andy & Chris (02:46.83)
What age were you then? going say, when did you start boxing?

George Vernon (02:49.588)
I was 11 when I first went into a boxing gym. To get fit for football, was my, truthfully it was my dad who took me and I’d always, yeah, I’d always had this want to, you know, be a little bit tougher. Obviously I’m driven from that kind of fear aspect of things. I wanted to be bit tougher. I wanted to be able to defend yourself as I’m sure probably most kids do that age as well, being at school.

Andy & Chris (02:51.888)
And why boxing?

Andy & Chris (02:57.814)
Alright, well, okay.

George Vernon (03:16.468)
So it was something that I’d always leaned towards. I’d done a bit of karate, but boxing was just a vehicle to get fit for football because I had the dream of being a professional footballer, as a lot of people probably do. And I fell in love with boxing because of just how much I enjoyed it, how much it gave me that vehicle away from some of the fears and just that I kind of started to really see this link between action and reward. So it was like my input, my ability to just take action and work was

directly correlated to the results that I got. And I really saw that staring me in the face in a boxing gym.

Andy & Chris (03:47.578)
but.

Andy & Chris (03:50.985)
So you started doing the boxing for fitness to support your football, but did the boxing then overtake the football and become the thing that you pursued?

George Vernon (03:59.294)
Exactly that, yeah. I finished football probably a year after I started boxing just because of how much I enjoyed it.

Andy & Chris (04:06.466)
Wow must be quite good boxing confidence I mean I can remember trying to do boxing in me garage not literally in my garage But you know in the in the gym in the garage and I really enjoyed it. My wife absolutely loves it She goes completely bonkers Because she says it’s quite you use actually more Muscles than you think you use don’t you generally it’s quite an interesting one really that you think it’s just punching but actually But actually it’s not I’d suppose also when you were doing this did that then give you

I think quite an ad to put it really but with other people in the school was there a certain degree of sort of respect for you that came with it in the fact that you could probably knock them out in one go or something

George Vernon (04:47.571)
I think that was a large part of it early doors and it was actually an identity that I couldn’t quite let go of after years wearing tongs. I was doing it, I did it for so many years competitively and then I coached it as well. So everybody kind of knew me as well as being a coach as boxing. So yeah, there was definitely that respect element but, and it was also…

As you say, like the muscles that you use is just ridiculous. I remember the first session that I ever did in boxing. I nearly, I think the next day when I woke up, I came from, I was nearly crying because it was just that tough.

Andy & Chris (05:17.2)
And all for football. And in your time in boxing, you went into it for fitness. The other people around you, what were their motivations to get involved in it? Because like you say, it’s fitness, it’s protection, it’s an energy outlet. I guess there’s loads of different reasons for it. Because I think boxing has become quite, I guess, fashionable in some ways.

in terms of a modern way to keep fit. has it shifted in the time you’ve been involved?

George Vernon (05:49.334)
Definitely. Where I started was at a leisure centre initially and then I very quickly got asked to go into the city centre gym and the city centre gym was a far different environment than the leisure centre. I mean, I live pretty much in the countryside and the city centre in Wolverhampton boxing gym was a far tougher environment and the people in there were there for, as you’ve identified, multiple different reasons for fitness to get them out of trouble and…

Andy & Chris (06:14.842)
was going say, is it like one of those films, you know, when you sort of see the bloke goes down the boxing, you know, they’re going to see the people that boxers, they’re like, there’s a whole random bunch of different people. Some of them look like they’re going to beat the crap out of you. You’re probably too young to remember this guy, but there’s always a guy called Burgess Meredith, who’d always have like half a cigar, he’d be hanging over the ropes and he’d be the wily old man who’d know it all. Yeah, he’d identify a champion.

George Vernon (06:43.522)
There’s definitely people like that in the boxing gym, 100%. It’s quite a funny environment. mean, even for more context, yet you had literally all walks of life there. My dad was a police officer, so going into a boxing gym, he was always a little bit wary thinking, we’re going into chaos. But it was funny because when you’re in there, it’s this kind of process of you’re as good as you are at boxing, like in everything else, doesn’t really matter. And that’s what you were there to do. You were there to get fit. You were there to enjoy the boxing.

Andy & Chris (06:45.583)
Yeah

Andy & Chris (06:51.024)
You

Andy & Chris (06:59.096)
Yeah, interesting.

Andy & Chris (07:08.144)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (07:13.456)
I suppose it’s a really good way when you think about it of communicating with all aspects, know, whole range of people, isn’t it? Because the risk is otherwise, you you end up sticking in your own lane with people who are a little bit like you. So therefore you’ll think, but going to the gym, there must have been such a wide variance of people that you have to get on with them all, don’t you really? So it’s probably a really good communication skill builder.

And was it the boxing that put you on the path to then go and study more about sports, health, wellness, that’s taken you into it as a career? Was that kind of a leader?

George Vernon (07:53.062)
Yeah, it really sparked an obsession for me of like optimal human health because I never forget a coach saying to me that boxing is a, you’re presenting the optimal version of yourself to be able to compete. And that was kind of, that really sparked it for me. And I was boxing during my GCSEs, know, running in the morning before school, training after school. And I started to also think, well, you can’t just…

Andy & Chris (08:07.536)
Hmm.

George Vernon (08:19.894)
box, everybody always talks about what’s your plan B, what’s your backup plan. So that came for me at college where I could box for half the day, was an apprenticeship where you studied sports for half the day and then you got to box for the rest of it and it was either boxing or strength and conditioning. So you were put into an environment where some of the lads got onto the GB squad, they were on that kind of pathway, they’re now signed with the likes of Frank Warren now and…

Andy & Chris (08:43.567)
Wow.

George Vernon (08:46.822)
And so they did, others did really well. Others of us, you know, went down our own routes into more the studying aspects of things. But that’s for me where it came from. But to touch on what really pushed me into the science that I didn’t fully understand how to train. I didn’t understand how to optimize my health. And whilst I was at college, excuse me, whilst I was at college, I probably over trained and

Andy & Chris (08:51.888)
Hmm.

George Vernon (09:14.42)
That is essentially where the stress on your body far outweighs your ability to recover. And it’s very similar to burnout, very similar to like burnout as described in a business setting. Apart from it manifests more physically, and that’s how it did for me. I was training two, three times a day. I was below 4 % body fat. I was weighing absolutely everything. So my Christmas dinner got weighed. It became a real obsession. And I was driven by people who didn’t fully understand science.

And I didn’t know that at the time, you you listen to your coaches, that’s it, that’s it, that’s what they’re there to do. And when I slowly but surely started to realise, well, I’ve over-trained here, it’s gonna take a while for me to get back, that’s what kind of lit the spark ready for me to go and understand the science, go to university and work with people who are more qualified from a scientific background to give people the proper support.

Andy & Chris (09:44.784)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (10:07.226)
Hmm. And it’s funny, you, you have this phrase, optimal human health. And obviously it’s not just the physical aspects of training. It’s, know, what we eat, the nutrition, how we process it, it’s everything. And I think, I think we are getting way more smart about looking at, you know, us as a, as an entity. And it’s not just about going to the gym. It’s about how we sleep and what we eat and how we recover. It’s, and it sounds to me like you’re taking quite a holistic view. You know, it’s definitely.

and move on from what would have been described as a personal trainer a few years ago.

George Vernon (10:40.182)
Definitely and I mean for context on that personal training as a qualification is a BTEC level qualification and that’s what I really try to advise people with that a PT will teach you from their level of expertise they can’t teach you past what they don’t know and when you’re looking at how to improve your own health and majority of the professionals I work with have this understanding that everything is far more holistic it’s multifactorial there’s so many things that go into it

Andy & Chris (10:47.802)
Hmm.

George Vernon (11:08.48)
you can’t just be simply one thing that they need, then they start to understand the process far more. But if you just limit yourself to somebody who is coming from that place where they don’t have expert knowledge, they aren’t looking at your nutrition, your physical health, your mindset, your recovery outside, actually how you are managing stress, you’re never really going to quite get the results that you want.

Andy & Chris (11:31.607)
You touched on burnout and what that looks like in terms of if you’re exercising too much, you don’t recover, that puts you on that path. You kind of had an experience yourself of this, didn’t you, back in 2022? And I’m only interested in your experience because there’s quite a lot of talk in dentistry at the moment about people who are either suffering or exhibiting the signs of burnout. So what did it look like for yourself?

George Vernon (11:56.3)
So the initial one with overtraining syndrome, it manifests in very similar ways as regular burnout does as well. Overtraining syndrome is basically you push your body past the point of recovery and it takes prolonged periods of recovery for you to get back to baseline. Because for people to adapt, you stress the body, you recover, you get better. People often have this conception that you get fitter in the gym, actually don’t. The adaptation occurs during recovery.

and recovery is both nutrition, it’s reducing stress, it’s managing stress and it’s also sleep, all these different things that go into it. Burnout for me in 2022 looked like, and people listening to this podcast might be able to resonate, I was coaching amateur and professional boxing because I couldn’t let go of the boxing identity that I’d built. Many years of people thinking I can beat them up. I couldn’t, I was still personal training on the gym floor and personal training, so in a coaching setting.

I was teaching exercise classes, I was working with athletes. I had a separate business where me and my brother had created one where we were delivering the personal training qualification because we wanted to go far above and beyond what the baseline qualification is. We said, it’s not good enough. We need to upskill people there. And then I was also running my coaching business that I now have and I now solely focus on doing all of those things just meant I was working absolutely ridiculous hours. It was.

Truthfully driven by fear again. It was that fear of failure and if I’m doing so many different things I can’t possibly fail and it came up for me as this sense of I think it came from a mental Thought process of nothing was ever gonna be enough and I needed more constantly so I could never switch off I think that’s like the baseline of where it came from physically kind of it manifests as it did in 2015 2014 when I was around 17 18 years old and it’s just fatigue it’s like

Andy & Chris (13:39.856)
Mm.

George Vernon (13:53.184)
It’s almost like you just, I described it as being tied in my bones back in like that time. Like you could just never fully feel like you were recovered. No matter how much sleep you got, no matter how many days off, you just still felt like you were burning the fuel.

Andy & Chris (13:58.256)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (14:09.584)
Wow. Interesting from a dental point of view of people sort of go, yeah. then, know, that feels familiar because I think they don’t think about stuff like that. So maybe spotting the signs before. And I think that’s the useful thing, isn’t it? Here, and you described that. I bet there’s lots of people who are saying, actually I might be exhibiting some of those signs I hadn’t really thought about. I just thought I was tired. Yeah, I was just worn out.

but, but I mean, at the moment in dentistry is quite a lot of talk about systemic health and, a guy that we’ve had on the podcast, Miguel standing from Portugal, he talks a lot about, oil inflammation and how that affects your overall body. And then I thought was when I thought about that and knew that we would be talking to you, I think that your traditional personal trainer would be focused on fitness. Whereas you’re, you’ve clearly gone way beyond that and you’re looking at fitness, nutrition.

and mindset and is that kind of the modern way of thinking and you can’t just take one out of the equation and not have an impact on the others. Yeah, you can’t do 50 push-ups or whatever. So when you work with clients, it kind of a we’re to look after all of you as opposed to just pick out one element? that your approach?

George Vernon (15:27.444)
Exactly. And it’s, it’s always defined by the results that they want. And it’s me laying out that process and helping them understand the process that they need to go through and what needs to change physically, nutritionally and mindset wise as well. And then it’s plugging those gaps and quite often. yeah.

Andy & Chris (15:32.026)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (15:42.256)
Is that quite hard, George, sometimes with people who come and they say, I just want to be fit. And you say, well, that’s great. But actually you need to do this and this and it’s all linked to linked. And they’re almost like, no, no, I don’t want to give up my sausage sandwich or whatever. I just want to be. Yeah. just to be great. It must be quite, it must be quite a challenge sometimes to talk people, to get them to accept it. Is that right?

George Vernon (16:11.586)
100 % what the first thing that I do before I work with anybody is we have a call and in that call It’s me understanding. What does this person value most in life? How is their health linked to their experience of what they value most in life and how would improving get? improved that experience a lot of Fitness and the fitness industry comes from bodybuilding comes from six-packs Beachbody and you mentioned there and it’s almost forcing people into this

one way of thinking about fitness and health, that if I’m fit and healthy, I need to just look this way. But really, exactly, and that’s what a lot of what I see, like people go to a personal trainer so they can get that beach body, holiday ready, all this kind of stuff. But realistically, like, for each individual person, we all have what we value most, we all have our own personal experience. And when we can link how our health is going to improve that experience and…

Andy & Chris (16:46.768)
So it’s almost like a stereotype.

George Vernon (17:09.044)
reduce the limitations that we’re currently feeling around that experience, all of a sudden health is then personalised and it becomes far more important to build a lifestyle around that specific type rather than just having generic programmes that just don’t work along with it.

Andy & Chris (17:25.557)
And do you find that because of the preconceived ideas of what’s been built up through this industry, is it challenging for you to get people to buy into this concept where it is all joined up and it is a kind of a triangle and we need to make sure that each of those points that are trying to have been looked after? I’d imagine people just don’t want, you know, they want to get fit.

by going down the gym, but don’t necessarily want to change some the other crap. I the world is, because that’s probably harder. Everyone’s looking for the quick fix. Everybody’s looking at a before and after on Instagram and going, amazing, 42 days, went from being an old fat bloke to a young fit bloke. Look at that, amazing. And that’s part of the problem, isn’t it? That you need to allow time for the change to happen, but also do it in a way which is sustainable. And that’s kind of, that’s counter.

to the way most things are being presented in the world at the moment. Everything’s quick. We all want a quick fix.

George Vernon (18:24.482)
I often joke that my job as a coach is just to constantly point at reality for people and that and that that is done through multiple ways. It’s through explaining and helping them understand the science. It’s helping them understand the process that they need. And I always say like I never tell anybody what they want to achieve. I’m very good with the questions that I ask to make sure that we we’ve defined the end goal together and it’s something that they really do want. So then

Andy & Chris (18:31.087)
I like that.

Andy & Chris (18:52.496)
Mmm.

George Vernon (18:53.172)
reverse engineering that process is not like I’m telling them to do anything that they don’t want to do. That’s what they want to do. And I’m simply laying out that map in front of them and saying, this is how you get there. We can change it as many times as we need. But unless you are an exception to science, which I’ve never met anybody who is, this is how it’s going to happen. Don’t get me wrong, there’s different vehicles that people can take to get to that end result. And yes, they can do it as quickly as they want and starve themselves and all these extreme methods.

Andy & Chris (18:56.912)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (19:05.322)
Mmm. Mmm.

Andy & Chris (19:12.528)
Hmm.

George Vernon (19:23.072)
But I always ask people, if what you’re going to do to get that result, can you see yourself doing that in a year’s time? If not, it’s probably not going to last because you’d have built habits around something that you’re never going to sustain. So it makes no sense.

Andy & Chris (19:23.248)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (19:27.728)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (19:33.264)
Yeah.

He must be quite sure I was suddenly sitting here thinking, you know when when we go anywhere I don’t know. Yeah, it’s same to me You know you go there and you meet people you don’t know and they go somebody you do and you go. well We value and sell dental practices and do finance and it’s the people go All right, but I’d imagine that would be your you’re a bit clearer room. Yeah, honestly, can clear I imagine you’re a bit like a doctor or somewhere where someone says, you know, they said what you do So, well, I’m you know, health awareness. No. well actually

I’ve got a problem or what could I do? And is it quite hard to get away from it in a way? And you know, sometimes you’re out, you know, you might be out, I don’t know, with your girlfriend or whatever, and all you want to do is be George and someone asks you a question and boom, how many press-ups can you do or something?

George Vernon (20:06.626)
Yeah.

George Vernon (20:20.61)
It’s funny that you say that because that’s one of the reasons I don’t call myself a personal trainer because that tend to before clear a room. you one of those, you know, those people who just shout at people. Whereas now in health and wellness, as you say, it’s far more, you know, it’s far more like like a doctor’s perspective, like, OK, so you help people with the health and especially when they start seeing the results that are posted on social media. So how can I do that? And

Andy & Chris (20:48.59)
Yeah, I said, imagine that must be what you get, you know, what would you recommend? What can I do? And that’s the truth is for lots of people, there is a there’s a physical change, isn’t it? Whereas in some ways, and I know lots of people that come to you will be looking to achieve a certain physical outcome. But there will also be people who will massively benefit just from eating better food, eating more consistently, avoiding ultra processed food.

And that in turn is going to impact their mindset and their attitude and their confidence and their outlook. And none of that has anything to do with their physical appearance. But we all know that quite often your confidence and how you feel about yourself is linked to your physical appearance. So it’s funny how it’s very hard to put a before and after of nutritional mindset, but it’s very easy to put a before and after of a physical change. That’s the thing we see.

George Vernon (21:40.034)
100 % I’ve distilled it down into three key things that people really want to improve that relate to that experience of life It’s it’s usually confidence. So confidence definitely does come through and the physical appearance side of things But it also comes and you might have heard this quote before that confidence is that you have evidence that you are who you say you are Which I absolutely love that quote. It’s almost that confidence that I’ve done exactly what I said I was going to do. There’s that element to it as well Energy is the second thing. So it’s energy levels to do what that person

values most, so whether that is showing up to business during the day, whatever it is, operating at 100 % so they can drive business forward, but then still have the energy that when they go home, they can enjoy family life as well. Like that’s a real big balance. And then the third thing is long-term health. So not having that fear that things around their long-term health are going to limit their experience of life, whether that is, as you mentioned,

earlier with their backs because they’re just haven’t actually quite looked after the health. So back is going to be a massive limiting factor, whether that’s any kind of diseases, whatever it is, it’s having that confidence that, know what, I’ve got the knowledge of what I need to do for my physical health, nutrition and mindset to sustain this moving forward. So I am influencing to the best of my ability, my longterm health.

Andy & Chris (22:54.672)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (23:00.452)
I love that point you said about giving a hundred percent at work, but also having a hundred percent available when you get home. Cause I think a lot of people don’t do that. I think they go all out at work. It’s like one tank. Yeah. And they get home and they’re knackered. And the result of that is you don’t then have anything left for the most important people in your world, which is your partner, your family at home. Cause you’ve given everything to your business and you go home and you flake on the sofa and watch Netflix, some rubbish food and watch Netflix. Whereas actually your point is,

really important, which is, you know, give everything at work, but make sure you still got something left that when you get home, you get to enjoy the outside of that. Yes. There’s no point being super tired. So as you miss out on the good bits. How did you, how did you find yourself in the niche of dentistry, George? I know you’ve got a number of dental clients, which is kind of how we came to talk.

George Vernon (23:49.74)
So it’s quite funny, I’ve talked often about niches in business and I think one of the best ways I’ve heard a niche described is that it kind of finds you and you just kind of all of a sudden wake up and you put out what you want to achieve and people kind of come as a result of that. And dentistry, seems, I didn’t quite get it, I didn’t quite get why was it that I was attracting so many different dentists, but you’ll see on my page now it’s business leaders that I work with, I didn’t realise that.

Andy & Chris (24:04.068)
Mm-hmm.

George Vernon (24:19.136)
A lot of dentists are self-employed and the more dentists I speak to, and you’ll probably see this yourself, have this real entrepreneurial kind of thinking process that they want to excel both in dentistry, but they’ve got this kind of interest in business as well. And they’re the people that I tend to work with, people who just want to excel in business. And I feel that comes through me being a business owner myself, the challenges that I’ve had and…

Andy & Chris (24:33.207)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (24:42.784)
Yeah.

George Vernon (24:46.028)
think a lot of the dentistry link comes through my practical application. So my time boxing, working with athletes, working in a gym, but also having the science side of things. And I think I believe that’s where dentists are more attractive because they’ve got those two elements as well.

Andy & Chris (24:52.464)
about.

Andy & Chris (24:58.82)
Hmm.

They like a bit of science, they? Dentists, because they are scientific clinicians in way. probably fits better than just do, you know, 100 circuits or whatever it might be, because you’re actually explaining it more, if that makes sense. I can imagine that fits quite well, actually. Yeah.

George Vernon (25:03.584)
Yeah.

George Vernon (25:16.834)
30%.

I find the dentist that I work with are process driven. You lay the process out, they’re very happy to follow, but they have to understand that process and they want to understand why they’re doing it. And once they understand the science, it’s then just having the steps laid out.

Andy & Chris (25:33.667)
And are they different than non-dentists?

George Vernon (25:37.472)
I’d like to say that all the business leaders I work with have a particular archetype now. They have a similar kind of personality now.

Andy & Chris (25:44.592)
So they’ve all got the same sort of mindset and approach.

George Vernon (25:47.49)
That’s what I’m finding and you’d have probably both found this in business yourself that you just tend to work with people who are similar minded to yourself and it just doesn’t happen. You don’t force it. It just kind of happens naturally because things you talk about. It just makes sense, doesn’t it? You know, if I’m interested in this and I talk a lot about this.

Andy & Chris (26:04.366)
Yeah. And I think you select, don’t you? I’m sure there’s clients that you’ve, he’s wanted to be clients, but you’ve like, no, this isn’t going to work.

George Vernon (26:13.704)
Exactly that. made the mistake very early on in my career with working with everybody as an early personal trainer and as an early coach, whereas now I have a process that there’s a questionnaire, there’s a screening process. And I do say no to people because if they’re not going to fit who I’m looking for, I’m not going to get them the result. So my business literally drives forward off results that I get with people. So it’s a waste of both of our times.

Andy & Chris (26:26.02)
Good.

Andy & Chris (26:35.556)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (26:43.258)
And it makes sense, doesn’t it? Because it’s painful to work with people that don’t really value what you’ve got. No matter, they might be paying you, but it’s like, really? I can’t be bothered. You’re causing me more grief. Yeah, no, great idea. Great. You said about yourself, George, that your health probably wasn’t as good as it is now when you are classified as an elite athlete. And I relate this kind of back to the dentist again in their surgery. I’m sure, you know,

Dentists are quite sedentary, we’ve said. They’re locked away in their surgery for extraordinary amounts of time and they don’t physically move around that much. They use the wheels on their chair. Well, yeah, and they’re on chairs that whilst I think the ergonomics over the years has got way better, it’s still not necessarily a natural position to be in. And I was laughing, there’s very well-known dentist guy called Millard, the singing dentist, and he put a reel up recently and saying that sometimes he was like, he’s a bit of a prawn, but by the end of the day, he’s curled up.

And I’m sure lots of dentists will relate to that. Are there some tips for dentists on a day by day basis that they could use? because I guess if people can’t come to you and they go on a journey in a program with you, that’s perfect. And lots of people, hopefully over time, will find what works for them. But just on a day by day basis, are there things that dentists could do just to make sure that they’re trying to have a slightly better day than they would?

George Vernon (28:10.954)
It’s a really great question and it’s a question I’ve been asked multiple times and my answer probably is never the one that people want because there’s definitely, if you are spending eight, nine hours hunched up in your desk, you then have to match that to counterbalance the strength deficiencies that you’ll have. So it’s then highlighting the importance of strength training and weight training, not just to look good like a lot of people use it for.

but actually for overall physical health, there’s so much research out now how resistance training, so weight training in the gym, once or twice per week has so many significant health benefits, both physically, so for problems like with your back, but also reducing a lot of the causes of mortality as well, so diseases and reducing risks of so many different things. So my main piece of advice is highlighting that importance.

and breaking that down into a week, not seeing it that you have to do an hour, two hours in the gym every week like a lot of the dentists that have initially come to me because they have this all or nothing mindset. If I’m going to train, that means I have to do so many hours a week. It’s like, no, you can literally do 20 minutes, 30 minutes at an absolute maximum. You can bike as well.

Andy & Chris (29:12.592)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (29:25.744)
But why is it we find that so difficult? Because we all have 24 hours in a day and we get the bit that there’s a bit that where we sleep, there’s a bit where we work and there’s a bit that’s left over. But as an average at the moment, people typically on average spend two hours and 24 minutes a day on social media. They really? Yeah. They haven’t exactly. It’s obscene. So how is it that people can very easily find the time for that? Yet they can’t find the time for their health, which is going to preserve…

know, decent longevity. Why do we find it so hard?

George Vernon (30:00.706)
because they distract themselves from reality. And that was my point about I’m pointing to reality constantly. When you get people close to actually, well, if your health stays as it is, what are the negative consequences of that? What’s the negative consequences that you’ve already seen when you don’t fluff it up as a story and, it’s okay, I’m just like this and, it’ll get better in the future and I’ll start next week or I’ll start in January. And when you actually move from that story and you start realizing,

Andy & Chris (30:07.408)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (30:20.56)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (30:26.224)
Mm.

George Vernon (30:29.76)
the reality of it, that’s when the importance gets highlighted. And I think that’s why I think, you know, social media is fantastic distraction. Netflix is a fantastic distraction as well. And it takes people away from the pain that’s in their life and or, you know, something that could be fixed that they’re not doing, but it feels far better to hop on social media instead of taking that.

Andy & Chris (30:49.752)
Yeah. I’m thinking weighted scrubs. So you have to have a bit of resistance training. was thinking, I wonder if that would work, would that work George? Have I just created a whole new range of work wear?

George Vernon (30:54.075)
Hehehehehe

George Vernon (31:04.446)
I’d like the odd appeal on it, if so, but I’d possibly not.

Andy & Chris (31:07.824)
You can have a resistant band, but wear a headband. But it needs to be backwards, though, doesn’t it? That’s what I thinking. I thought maybe shoulders, but that’d be no good. And I was thinking, if you did it in the hem… And then I thought, you wore that twice a week, that would counterbalance the three days a week that you did it. Are there any…?

What a random, you’re amazed by that, aren’t you? Yeah, yeah. amazed by that. Are there any… If you make millions, George, it’s my idea, right, Are there any common traits among your dental clients in terms of the things that they don’t get to do or areas they need to focus on? Is there something that kind of transcends across the profession? Hmm, that’s a point.

George Vernon (31:52.918)
I’d say the personality type and the way they think is quite similar. I often come across dentists who have this all or nothing approach. They’re either all in or they’re all out. If they’re in on fitness, it has to be so many times a week or no, I’m just not gonna do it and I’ll start when I have some more time. And that’s a common, it’s actually a thinking distortion from CBT, you’ve probably heard of cognitive behavioral therapy. It’s an actual distortion of thinking that’s…

Andy & Chris (31:58.606)
Right.

George Vernon (32:19.714)
that comes from that, that if it’s not perfect, it’s just not good enough. And the worst part, I would say, is actually breaking that and saying, well, let’s actually look at your week and work out how we can optimize the time you have available. But that’s not just training all the time, because as you mentioned, people do enjoy sitting and watching Netflix. And that’s definitely an important part of de-stressing, relaxing, because that, and people then almost demonize it, and then it’s…

Andy & Chris (32:42.767)
Mm.

George Vernon (32:47.134)
on social media is bad and training is good. Well, if you train too much, that’s also bad. So it’s then finding a balance that’s right for that person specific to the end result that they’ve picked. But that limitation early doors with all dentists, it’s having that thinking distortion. It’s thinking that it has to be perfect. It has to be a hundred miles an hour. It has to be everything aligned. It’s breaking that, breaking past that first saying, what do we actually have with the available time?

Andy & Chris (32:51.869)
Mmm. Mmm.

George Vernon (33:15.926)
building momentum from there, stacking habits on top of each other and making it just really reasonable.

Andy & Chris (33:16.752)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (33:20.238)
Yeah. But like I say, you say is right in the both of those outlooks can be damaging. Cause if it’s all or nothing, all could get them to a place where you were, which is utter exhaustion because they’re just literally on it all the time. And then nothing’s no good cause you don’t start. And sometimes you need to take the small step to start, but not then turn it into an obsession where it’s literally all you’re doing and all you’re focused on. Makes sense. Doesn’t it?

with all of that and the psychology, why you’re a health and wellness coach, not a PT. Because there’s so much more than just, you know, doing reps and getting a beach body, isn’t it? It’s like, it’s amazing. I think also, I think it’s a more sustainable way of building your life as well. Because you’re focusing on lots of different elements that mean that you’re better as a person and your mind is better, you’re physically better, you’re eating the right sort of food. It just seems a more…

growing up sent to a way of going about it. But I also get your point that it does require explaining and walking people through the process so they understand it as opposed to say, well, no, no, no, no. I thought I was just going to look like they’re going to picture. Yeah. Yeah. Instantly. Isn’t it? That’s, that’s, that’s difference. George, we get quite a lot of younger people listen to this podcast. So students or younger dentists, you’re an entrepreneur. You’ve got your own business.

Lots of these people have an ambition to buy dental practice or start a dental practice or move into business in some capacity or other What what would you say is your your own key takeaway? based on your entrepreneurial journey so far Take away with a health and fitness. Yeah. Yeah, of course. It’s a very it’s a very green very lean Not process takeaway. Yeah

George Vernon (35:02.293)
you

George Vernon (35:08.484)
If you’re asking, I love a dominoes but truthfully with entrepreneurship and you both will know this even better than I do in business. All businesses is solving the problem to a question. So given an answer to a question, that’s what you’re doing. You’re really just solving problems and what the advice I probably would have wanted earlier doors was in what business are you going to do?

and what vehicle are you going to do it in? But what problems do you want to solve? What questions you want to answer? Because then the business almost takes care of itself and you find a way because you can then constantly innovate to create that solution as opposed to thinking I’m a coach and that’s what I do and that’s my business. Or I’m going to teach personal trainers because I’m a teacher. It’s more so thinking, well, what’s the actual problem I want to solve?

Andy & Chris (35:39.493)
Hmm

George Vernon (36:01.514)
and innovating to work out the best solution to that because otherwise you just fit into the box of being like everybody else and that in business doesn’t really win the game of business.

Andy & Chris (36:06.96)
Mm.

Hmm. Yeah, that’s a point. Good point. Does that have interest to your, does your approach only work on a one-to-one basis or are there sufficiently common behaviors among people where it would work in a group setting or not?

George Vernon (36:23.178)
Yeah, so I do group setting coaching as well. And that’s one of the questions I’m constantly updating and answering. So I have an education platform alongside my coaching and it’s the it’s more so building up the process around it. Because what I’m finding is that not so much that people need just one to one application, they just need questions answered and how they get answered, whether it’s me telling them, whether it’s them using a resource, whether it’s them, it’s seeing the actual evidence in front of them. They just need that question answered.

So that’s come out my

Andy & Chris (36:53.488)
Right. Cool. I just think for you, it becomes more scalable, but also depending on the sort of person you are, I think there’s still people out there who might find it quite intimidating to work with somebody on a one-to-one, whereas in a group setting, sometimes it provides access to a wider pool of people. Interesting. Interesting.

George Vernon (37:11.702)
Definitely, 100%. It’s the scalability question that I constantly ask as well, because how can I scale me? And that’s my next phase of business that I really need to answer.

Andy & Chris (37:23.876)
Right, yeah, yeah. George, we’ve got two more questions for you before we can let you go. everybody gets asked these questions and you’re gonna be no different. So our first question for you is if you could be a fly on the wall in a situation, where would you be and who would be there?

George Vernon (37:44.642)
flying the wall in the situation. I said before we started, I was going to let this flow. So I’m going to literally tell you the thing that comes to mind. So I’ve been thinking about this a lot over the past few days because I’ve seen some of your other podcasts.

George Vernon (37:59.49)
Truthfully, I’d love to be a fly on the wall in some of the government conversations. So I don’t go too profound, but honestly, I recently listened to the Boris Johnson podcast and I was Yeah, and I was and he was on die of a CEO and I was just amazed to listen to his take on things

Andy & Chris (38:11.115)
What about Unleashed?

George Vernon (38:20.086)
And I kind of quite often sit there after listening to people out there thinking like, wow, is that really how they do things? Is that like really it? honestly, I would love to be a fly on the wall and just sit and listen to some of the conversations. Cause I genuinely think I’d be like gobsmacked at it. Cause you think they’ve got it together, you think they’ve got it solved, but like quite clearly they don’t.

Andy & Chris (38:39.118)
Yeah No, yeah, no, no, was he really gonna launch a commando raid to try and get some drugs back or whether it was our vaccines on that bloody Yeah, but they are just people they are just people trying to work it out As as most of us are but they just do it on a on a national level. Yeah, where it’s visible Yeah, and if you could meet somebody george, who would you like to take the opportunity and sit down living or dead? Yeah

George Vernon (38:47.522)
Yeah. Definitely.

George Vernon (39:06.32)
Right now, because it changes, I listen to a lot of different people, but right now I’m a big fan of Eckhart Tolle. You might have seen his book, The Power of Now. That’s one of the most interesting things I’ve listened to recently. And it’s funny coming from me from a real site, I’ve got a master’s degree in science. But yeah, his book I thought is a really interesting perspective on things.

Andy & Chris (39:14.533)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (39:22.213)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (39:27.834)
Brilliant. And you’re right as well, does change over time. I think we’re asking this question of you now and in two years you’ll be different. So you’ll probably have a different outlook and in 10 years time again. So I think that’s really good to capture the thought that it is for now. Cause some people kind of answer it thinking this is my only ever answer for life, but it isn’t. It’s just at the moment we’re asking the question it’s that question, which is quite important.

George, thanks for your time today. Yeah, brilliant. Lovely. It’s been really interesting. Enlightening. Yeah, I think it’s really good. I think, I hope the takeaway for people from this is the fact that, you know, just start, you know, you can change yourself and you can move from one place to another. And I love that that you said about it doesn’t need to be obsessive and all in, but it doesn’t need to be nothing. There’s a whole blend of options in the middle there and people can kind of, you know, move in the right direction if that’s what they want.

What we’ll do as well is if you could send over a link to yourself, we’ll whack that in the show notes as well. So if people have any questions about how you might be able to help them, or they might as well have general questions about their own lifestyle and health, and I’m sure you’ll be able to help them. Yeah, crowdfunding for weighted scrubs. The next venture, it comes. You heard it here first. What would we call it? Cheers, George. Thanks, man. Cheers, George. It comes to us really good. Thanks a lot. Cheers.

George Vernon (40:38.21)
you

Heh.

George Vernon (40:48.68)
Appreciate you both, everyone.