Transcript from the Dentology Podcast recording with guest Loven Ganeswaran.
Episode published Monday 23 January 2023
00:00:00:13 – 00:00:20:08
Andy Acton
Welcome to another episode of the Dental Allergy Podcast where we discuss the business of dentistry. In this podcast series, we’ll be discussing all the non-clinical aspects of dentistry, some goodwill, values, finance, marketing, how to buy and sell a dental practice mindset through to where you can invest your money in team management issues. My name is Andy Acton and I’m joined by my co-host Chris Steves.
00:00:20:09 – 00:00:25:17
Andy Acton
Let’s jump right into it. So very, very enjoyable chat with Loven is a real charming gentleman.
00:00:25:17 – 00:00:42:15
Chris Strevens
It’s first and I mean another huge ranging gambit of conversation. That’s what all these folks are like. It’s fascinating. You sort of think it might be dove down this path. And I think what we’ve learned now is a lot of guests, you just sort of stop talking and then move.
00:00:42:24 – 00:01:03:17
Andy Acton
Oh, the I mean, the start of the week, will we be blown away by his. Well, it wasn’t even the start of his life. It was when he was still waiting to be born and the hardship the family went through. But also just looking at the creative side of his life now that’s influenced his his professional career in dentistry and.
00:01:03:17 – 00:01:22:20
Chris Strevens
That he’s been able to do both. You know, that I think that’s the other things that a lot of people you know, that they can still follow their passions. It’s just sometimes their passions have to be different than what they do. You know, you might want to be I know a classical guitarist or whatever it is, but the chances of making a career out of a slip is slim.
00:01:22:20 – 00:01:27:18
Chris Strevens
So, yeah, so make a career of something else that you’re good at and enjoy and then do the other bit, but also.
00:01:27:18 – 00:01:39:09
Andy Acton
That that trip to Sri Lanka and how that sparked the idea side. I think I’m always fascinated as to what was it that got something going. I think people take a huge amount from that.
00:01:39:11 – 00:01:43:05
Chris Strevens
Know what was the nugget. Yeah, it’s brilliant. Really good again. So here we are again.
00:01:43:05 – 00:01:45:11
Andy Acton
Again, another rich episode coming up.
00:01:45:15 – 00:01:47:20
Chris Strevens
Indeed. You’re looking forward to this one, too.
00:01:48:05 – 00:02:01:17
Andy Acton
So today we are delighted very powerfully to go love and gun Ghana’s where and joining us Lauren is a dentist also a co-principal of a practice. He’s the founder of share side and also a rapper.
00:02:02:02 – 00:02:04:07
Chris Strevens
We can we can look at that. That’s impressive.
00:02:04:07 – 00:02:07:05
Andy Acton
That means we’ve got a lot to get through today. LOVEN has you doing well.
00:02:07:05 – 00:02:09:04
Chris Strevens
Wide ranging set of skills.
00:02:10:19 – 00:02:28:19
Loven Ganeswaren
It’s a real pleasure to be on on the podcast, guys. It’s I’ve been looking forward to this, been listening to you guys for for a while. And it’s that it’s a really interesting pinch me moment actually, because I was I never imagined myself coming on to a podcast like this. So you say it’s so, so exciting to be here.
00:02:29:01 – 00:02:45:02
Andy Acton
So I’m grateful for your time. We know just by virtue of the introduction, you’re not short of things to keep you busy. So we’re grateful for you. Finally, the time for us before we get to your your wide and varied dental career list. Kind of winding back, what things do we need to know about you from your childhood?
00:02:45:02 – 00:02:49:18
Andy Acton
That kind of explained the the guy you are today? What was your what was your childhood like?
00:02:50:22 – 00:03:21:06
Loven Ganeswaren
Interesting. Interesting. I was I was born in Sri Lanka. My parents are Sri Lankan in a difficult time in Sri Lanka, actually there was it was sort of like the peak of the civil war that which I believe led my my parents largely to to reconsider that their future there along with a lot of their family along along with a lot of relatives, a lot along with the community in the north east part of Sri Lanka.
00:03:21:06 – 00:03:23:16
Andy Acton
So I was going to say, was there quite a strong Sri Lankan.
00:03:23:16 – 00:03:27:00
Chris Strevens
Community going to say was that a big sort of family move as such?
00:03:27:08 – 00:03:54:15
Loven Ganeswaren
There was interestingly, my father and mother moved because Dad actually got he got a placement at Stirling University to pursue aquaculture because there was a huge prawn farming industry in Sri Lanka and he was really interested in that. And so he ended up doing a Ph.D. at Stirling Uni and so I grew up at Stirling University on campus racing with the freshers at from the age of 1 to 5 years.
00:03:55:02 – 00:03:58:14
Loven Ganeswaren
And yeah, like somehow.
00:03:58:17 – 00:04:02:14
Andy Acton
Somehow the Fresh Prince of Stirling doesn’t quite ring the same, true does.
00:04:03:02 – 00:04:33:01
Loven Ganeswaren
He. And so the first Stirling are like so we, I probably didn’t, I wasn’t exposed to the community then, but when we moved to London after that there was a, there was a very large Tamil community of individuals who’d been through some traumatic things. Right. Their parents largely. I was really lucky I didn’t see any of that. I was I was exposed to it through stories.
00:04:33:07 – 00:04:57:16
Loven Ganeswaren
But I’m very fortunate. I you know, I was too young to understand it at the time. So I grew up surrounded by extremely grateful people for being able to make it out of a difficult situation. I grew up in an environment where, you know, not many people came to this country with with with much in their in their pockets.
00:04:58:13 – 00:05:19:06
Loven Ganeswaren
And so they had to create and build. And so the people around me were incredibly inspiring because now 20, 30 years on, we’re actually more than that. 35 years on, you see, oh, I grew up around people growing businesses because they didn’t have opportunities, they didn’t have education. So they had to to build a life for them and their families.
00:05:19:06 – 00:05:41:04
Loven Ganeswaren
A lot of these people had come a lot of these people come with young families. Right. So you get they get thrown into deep. And so there was this entrepreneurial spirit that existed within our community. And not only that, but our community is very much quite creative as a group like we, we have a massive cinema scene called Hollywood.
00:05:41:19 – 00:06:07:04
Loven Ganeswaren
And among that we’ve got spin of dances, spin off singers, you know, it’s it’s it’s almost like we we we even have this thing called engage from where if you learn an instrument up to a very high the highest degree, you get celebrated by putting on a show and the whole community would come and watch. And this was in line with a big, strong focus on education.
00:06:07:04 – 00:06:29:22
Loven Ganeswaren
So more and more path to dentistry, largely led by the virtually that. And you may understand that from the British dental community as well is that there was a strong focus on education because I would probably say a lot of our parents didn’t have the opportunity to to study and do. LOVEN Sorry.
00:06:30:04 – 00:06:32:11
Chris Strevens
When you came down to London what your duty daddy.
00:06:32:24 – 00:06:59:04
Loven Ganeswaren
So he he despite having his it’s sort of like penetrating aquaculture. There was nothing to do with aquaculture in London. So he ended up picking up jobs here in the, um, to start with because you know, when you come here with nothing and you’re here in a probably say a, a refugee refugee status a lot, a lot of us anyway, he, he worked from the bottom up.
00:06:59:04 – 00:07:15:18
Loven Ganeswaren
So he was like petrol stations, you know, working night shifts. Mum would sit with my little brother’s born when I was five all the way through a pregnancy. She was working at Tesco, you know, like really trying to, trying to try to set up a life.
00:07:15:18 – 00:07:28:12
Andy Acton
So I love Lauren about it is that everybody assumes that life’s linear and life just goes on, on an upward trajectory and it always just keeps moving the same direction. And it it remarkable that you have somebody who’s got an agricultural.
00:07:28:19 – 00:07:30:21
Chris Strevens
Supply, who comes to London.
00:07:31:03 – 00:07:49:13
Andy Acton
And is prepared to rebase himself and do whatever he needs to to rebuild. And that’s all for the greater good of his future family. You know, the future of his family is the most important thing. So there’s no, you know, there’s nothing on him that says, I have a PhD in agriculture and I need to use it. I don’t care.
00:07:49:14 – 00:07:53:19
Andy Acton
I’m prepared to reset my life to make sure that my family have a better future.
00:07:53:19 – 00:08:05:16
Chris Strevens
But also from the flip side, isn’t it that there was no one who said how? You’ve got a PhD in agriculture. So yeah, we’ll be able, you know, we can use that knowledge and not necessarily of agriculture, but in fact you’ve actually got a PhD in the game.
00:08:05:16 – 00:08:20:03
Andy Acton
But I think you said about culture and resilience, you know what, what great lessons for you to learn from your parents, which kind of gives us a great insight as to why you’ve gone on to have the success you’ve had in your career. Was that.
00:08:20:04 – 00:08:21:20
Chris Strevens
Process of character building.
00:08:21:21 – 00:08:23:16
Andy Acton
As those things in you very young.
00:08:24:04 – 00:09:05:13
Loven Ganeswaren
Well, I don’t think I appreciated that then, but I it definitely became a mindset that was ingrained. I own my parents, everything. And in that, with the view that they went through a lot and they came out trying to build a better life for us through difficult times. But along that journey, also taking risks that we could learn from and realizing that, you know, one thing I really loved about the aquaculture in the PhD, anything to going to to start off when you had a couple of hundred in your pocket and you land in London to picking up any job is the fact that you remove ego from the entire thing.
00:09:05:23 – 00:09:33:06
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah, right. And when you remove ego you almost become free I feel. And you know, that’s something I’ve been trying, like trying to work on over many, many years is, is almost be very real grounded and free from ego. Because when you start building organizations, you realize that to inspire and to try and lead people, a group of people as a team towards a common goal or a common mission ego can really get in the way.
00:09:33:09 – 00:09:33:23
Loven Ganeswaren
Content.
00:09:34:11 – 00:09:39:14
Andy Acton
But modern, modern society doesn’t help, does it? Modern society sees a hierarchy. I was going to say.
00:09:39:20 – 00:09:40:06
Loven Ganeswaren
I.
00:09:40:11 – 00:09:42:07
Andy Acton
This it celebrates ego.
00:09:42:18 – 00:09:58:24
Loven Ganeswaren
This is my challenge. This is my challenge. As much as behind the scenes, I’m fighting or working on myself to try and eliminate that and realize that we came with nothing and I leave with nothing. And fundamentally, we’re on a journey. It doesn’t matter if you’re a dentist or it doesn’t matter if you work here or there or whatever.
00:09:58:24 – 00:10:19:14
Loven Ganeswaren
We’re all humans and that’s just a journey. We’re a product of our experiences, we’re a product of our environment. We just products of what we’ve been exposed to. I know incredibly intelligent people, incredibly intelligent people who’ve just never been exposed to the entrepreneurial journey. They just there’s just never been exposed to it. Right. But I know they could they could smash it in anything they do.
00:10:20:01 – 00:10:45:24
Loven Ganeswaren
They just they just don’t know. And you can’t know everything either. But what you’ve been exposed to allows you to do that. And what my biggest issue is with, with, with things like social media is such that as much as I try and battle the ego situation, I find that especially doing things in the creative space and trying to grow your following or trying to do this, it’s a very egocentric thing, right?
00:10:46:04 – 00:11:13:23
Loven Ganeswaren
I’m positioning yourself is very much an egocentric thing. Unless you are in a position where you are able to showcase your true face and true feelings and and and not care about numbers and all of that and show vulnerability and actually see you being real. But then you also get unfortunately valued or viewed based on your metrics when you’re in that space.
00:11:13:23 – 00:11:30:13
Loven Ganeswaren
So I’ve always said, like, I’m not in I’m not in it to chase the numbers or the followers or thinking, but at the same time I could be out and people like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And I’ll see, you know, you see your profile and be like, Oh, you make music or whatever and you’re like, Oh, but yeah, I’ve got like hundreds of thousands of followers, so you’re probably not that great, right?
00:11:30:20 – 00:11:34:02
Loven Ganeswaren
And it’s like, well, you know, like.
00:11:34:22 – 00:11:35:21
Chris Strevens
I just found out that’s.
00:11:36:01 – 00:11:38:05
Loven Ganeswaren
That’s not the game of trying to play here, if you know what I mean.
00:11:38:05 – 00:11:41:23
Chris Strevens
Yeah, yeah. You don’t need the validation of all those numbers. It’s just like I think.
00:11:41:23 – 00:11:42:08
Andy Acton
I think it’s got.
00:11:42:08 – 00:11:43:08
Chris Strevens
To be comfortable in yourself.
00:11:43:08 – 00:12:04:21
Andy Acton
But I think the whole thing with numbers generally, whether it’s money, followers, likes, you know, listens, whatever is is the bigger the number, there’s an assumption that you’re doing better. You know, if somebody has more money than somebody else, we assume that they’re doing really well because they’ve got more money. But I’m simple and in some ways, you know, use this way of measuring success.
00:12:05:04 – 00:12:09:19
Andy Acton
But because your numbers go up and we know how to look at numbers, it’s an easy way and a lazy way to do it.
00:12:10:11 – 00:12:18:18
Loven Ganeswaren
But what is success? What is what is what is the definition of success? That’s that’s something that I have been thinking about for so long.
00:12:18:24 – 00:12:33:00
Chris Strevens
That it varies from person to person. I mean, we do a course where we sort of say part of it is you say, what is your definition of success? You know, and it might be you want loads of money, you might be you want loads of car, you might want to play more golf, you might want to read books, you want to drink yourself stupid.
00:12:33:05 – 00:12:42:08
Chris Strevens
You might want to spend more time with your kids. You know, it’s different for people and they have to they but they have to find it themselves rather get it defined by someone else.
00:12:42:08 – 00:13:04:05
Andy Acton
And also the other one is what’s the measurement scale for happiness? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like you say, it all kind of ties together a lot. You said you then got this is external world watching everything that you do as well. And so you’re trying to be as authentic as possible, but you also wear the, you know, in particular with social media platforms.
00:13:04:05 – 00:13:05:06
Andy Acton
They have a marketing tool.
00:13:05:13 – 00:13:05:20
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah.
00:13:06:15 – 00:13:10:17
Andy Acton
It’s a marketing tool. It’s a way of being seen. So you have to kind of play that.
00:13:10:17 – 00:13:16:10
Chris Strevens
So it’s not 130 followers probably follow my marketing.
00:13:16:10 – 00:13:18:17
Andy Acton
And the thing is, if they’re 130 of the right people.
00:13:19:06 – 00:13:23:02
Chris Strevens
Yes, that’s it’s all about number. It’s all about quality. But pretty sure it’s.
00:13:23:17 – 00:13:42:19
Andy Acton
You know, when when we started doing this, you know, which we said before we start recording, we’re very grateful to Payman, who has his own podcast. And he said that stuck with us. He said, When I record, I’m just looking to have a really good conversation with that person. If somebody else listens to it after it’s released and they take value from it, then that’s great.
00:13:42:24 – 00:13:51:09
Andy Acton
But the value should be the moment we have it now. We chatting for some time, we finding out stuff is really interesting and if a byproduct of that is other people.
00:13:51:16 – 00:13:52:08
Chris Strevens
Actually find it.
00:13:52:08 – 00:14:00:18
Andy Acton
Interesting, then that’s great. And if and if only ten people listen to it, but they all took something really valuable from it that’s more important than being blitzed out of thousands.
00:14:00:24 – 00:14:33:08
Loven Ganeswaren
Exactly. And there’s so much value in that. But we’re so it was surrounded by we get mistaken sometimes between quality because of because of the the vanity metrics around it right. The vanity metrics doesn’t necessarily mean something’s high quality and that’s been that’s been marketing throughout the test of time and that’s been over history. Right. Sometimes a great the best products aren’t the ones that are most popular.
00:14:33:24 – 00:14:37:20
Loven Ganeswaren
That’s just great marketing. But that itself is a science and an art and a skill.
00:14:38:00 – 00:14:40:07
Chris Strevens
So, you know.
00:14:40:07 – 00:14:59:22
Andy Acton
And your and your comment there about science, art and skewers and I segway into dentistry because yeah, you told us that you, you went into Dentsu with a love of science and the craft, but the thing that you really fell in love with was that direct, directly teaching and working on an individual patient and educating and treating a patient.
00:15:00:03 – 00:15:09:00
Andy Acton
What was it about that that kind of mind, you shy of it, that really drew you in? Because it is a very artistic world. But what was it about treating that that one patient?
00:15:10:00 – 00:15:37:20
Loven Ganeswaren
I think when you start first of all, I had a clear vision, early doors in my life of what I wanted from I what path, what my life, what made me happy and what kind of purpose I would like to pursue. I think I had a very clear I think I was quite lucky early doors through the experiences that I knew that anything was somewhat possible.
00:15:39:11 – 00:15:43:24
Chris Strevens
To become a dentist. Did that sort of follow in own hands? That sort of bit.
00:15:44:06 – 00:16:11:02
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah. So the reason why that was why dentistry came out was because I also feel like if you’re in the pursuit of, of, of something meaningful, you have to impact one person at a time to stop. Right. And what better feeling than to be what I call in the trenches, helping people firsthand with the ability where you’re only a few of us have a skill set that’s able to solve that problem for them.
00:16:11:07 – 00:16:43:17
Loven Ganeswaren
I think that’s pretty incredible. So learning how to develop that skill and then combining that skill with empathy towards people, with communication, with compassion and then continuously evolving that skill through evidence based learning and then delivering that day in, day out to people who need your help. Is a privilege. It really is a privilege. But and you don’t get much more satisfaction than that, really.
00:16:44:01 – 00:17:12:07
Loven Ganeswaren
Like, you know, it could be any walk of any person from any walk of life, someone who who who is possibly coming from a difficult background. Right. Or somebody who is in someone who’s elderly and is lonely. Right. And you have real, meaningful conversations with people I would never have the opportunity to speak with on the street. If you think about it, the number of conversations I’ve had seeing 20 patients that 25 patients a day for the past 12 years.
00:17:12:07 – 00:17:37:15
Loven Ganeswaren
Right. Five days a week up until maybe the last four years has been has opened my mind to to the world more than anything else I could have ever done. And I’m not talking about fleeting conversations. I’m talking about speaking with with with parents, grandparents who become parents, who become grandparents. And then three years later, suddenly realizing one of them develops dementia.
00:17:37:23 – 00:17:49:17
Loven Ganeswaren
Then two years after that, realizing that they get put into a care home. And now I’m speaking about speaking to the wife. I’ve been fortunate. I’ve been at the practice for 12 years since my foundational training, so I followed people on their journey.
00:17:49:23 – 00:17:54:00
Andy Acton
MM You do your training at the practice? Yeah, right. Okay.
00:17:55:01 – 00:18:05:23
Loven Ganeswaren
So I did my training there 12 years ago and I stayed on as an associate. Then I became a partner and, and, and I followed my, my patient base through that journey, through that line.
00:18:06:09 – 00:18:33:21
Chris Strevens
That I sort of thought about in a way, you’re you’re mixing and you’re conversing with people of varying, you know, ages, social skills, social sets, communicate is fascinating. We hadn’t really sort of thought about it in a way that we know you talk to patients. But but hearing you saying, you know, you’re you could be talking to someone who’s, I don’t know, at one end of the scale and then you’ve got another guy who’s might be a multimillionaire or something.
00:18:33:21 – 00:18:53:10
Chris Strevens
Yeah. You’ve got this whole range of people that your skill set has got to your communication skills. You have to be able to encompass that and and that also is fascinating. There’s probably a lot of dentists who might not have that communication skill to be able to cope with that huge range. It’s quite an interesting one. Yeah, it’s quite interesting.
00:18:53:10 – 00:18:54:19
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah.
00:18:54:19 – 00:19:11:21
Andy Acton
You just you just roll it back just a little bit. When you were dental school learning the craft, when did it hit you that you might be a dental preneur? When did it hit you that you might end up in business? Was that quite early on or did it something that evolved over time?
00:19:11:22 – 00:19:30:00
Loven Ganeswaren
No, not really. I always knew that I wanted to be involved in the startup and startup space because that excited me like I had this natural excitement about it and I found myself naturally reading, watching, learning in my own time as a hobby. Anything to do with the Startup World.
00:19:30:21 – 00:19:31:20
Chris Strevens
Dragons Den.
00:19:31:20 – 00:19:56:01
Loven Ganeswaren
Since yeah. Since since since I was young like and I think that that also stems from always feeling like, you know, things can be done a bit better, you know, how can you make things a little bit better for the person for the end impact? In this case, patients? You know, I find that there are so many broken systems and processes, there are so many things that can be fixed.
00:19:56:03 – 00:20:33:13
Loven Ganeswaren
You can’t fix everything. But there are some things that can have a bigger impact than others. And how can I contribute to that from a a slice of creativity with a bit of strong values and direction and culture, and then try and try and build work with, with great people to to solve that. And I found that by but by practicing dentistry, I saw that there were so many inefficiencies in that system that in the existing system, 12 years ago, that largely patients could they could easily solve so many problems for patients.
00:20:33:22 – 00:20:51:16
Loven Ganeswaren
But but I felt like it wasn’t because we just fall into this system and we accept the status quo. And we we carry on, we carry on. We carry on. Now more than ever, people are disrupting the status quo because they realize that it’s not this isn’t quite good enough for what I would expect from my form for my patient.
00:20:51:18 – 00:21:13:04
Loven Ganeswaren
Right. And how do we improve? How do we continuously improve? And I see so many people now like their dental practices are so beautiful. You know, the levels, the standards, the technology, it’s like they don’t have to invest in this stuff. You can run a good dental practice on a on quite a basic level, right? If you wanted to, if you cared about the numbers and that’s all that mattered.
00:21:13:17 – 00:21:33:14
Loven Ganeswaren
But if you look at just look at the dentist right now and what they’re doing to their practices, what the what technology that they’re embedding, what they’re investing in from their own back pocket. Right. Their own potential income, how they’re reinvesting like that to me just proves that people care. Like these guys. It’s not just a it’s not just a business.
00:21:33:14 – 00:21:57:19
Loven Ganeswaren
It’s a passion for a lot of these people. And the reinvestment level is incredible. Like, you know, you don’t need to spend 40 grand in it. You don’t need to. Right. But they are. And not just 1 to 3. Right. And I love it. I love seeing it. And we are in that environment now where actually people want to do the best for their patients and also really be proud of what they do and enjoy it.
00:21:58:17 – 00:22:02:11
Loven Ganeswaren
And I think I felt that 12 years ago and this was my take on how to improve that.
00:22:02:11 – 00:22:23:12
Chris Strevens
Jane And would you say that you’ve seen a change from post-COVID? Because that’s where we sort of see that that almost dentistry suddenly become it’s almost like people have ignored it for the last hundred years. And then some patients are going, oh, you that’s that’s pretty cool dentistry, I think. You know, it’s amazing that transformation. You know, you mentioned the tarot.
00:22:23:13 – 00:22:39:04
Chris Strevens
You know there’s that was it dental monitoring or all those sort of systems that people are embracing to give their customer their patient experience a better experience. So you sort of seen as a at the coalface, you know, post-COVID, a difference.
00:22:40:00 – 00:23:03:24
Loven Ganeswaren
100%, 100%, I think in two ways. I think everybody had a chance to reflect dentists, a chance to reflect it, to understand what type of dentistry and how they want to perform in the future and to find meaningful purpose in their work. And I feel patients also had a chance to reflect and possibly reconsider their health as a as the forefront of actually what’s important.
00:23:04:05 – 00:23:19:19
Loven Ganeswaren
You always, you know, you step back and sometimes when you’re not in the thick of it day to day, 9 to 5 or whatever the hours are, and you have a chance to reflect. I always feel this when I go on holiday and write back, I’m always like, Oh, you know what? I’m going to relook at my morning routine.
00:23:19:23 – 00:23:37:17
Loven Ganeswaren
You know, I want to tweak it a little bit, you know, and all of those books like Atomic Habits Start Creeping Back In and all of these things that, you know, you want to refine. I think COVID, you know, for so many months is not just like a little holiday. And the flight back, I think it had gave everyone a chance to relook at re re re position.
00:23:37:18 – 00:23:47:19
Loven Ganeswaren
I think a lot of that investment as well from dentists is also the connection between patients wanting more and dentists wanting to do the best. And I think there’s an amazing synergy between the two.
00:23:47:23 – 00:23:48:07
Chris Strevens
Brilliant.
00:23:48:16 – 00:24:09:07
Andy Acton
Yeah, yeah. But before we get to two chair side, you worked as an associate in the practice for ten years, so you joined straight from dental school, did your foundation year then an associate for ten years took us through. So you’re now a partner in the practice? Is that because quite often for lots of people, they move on to another practice to buy.
00:24:09:11 – 00:24:18:16
Andy Acton
So it’s reasonably unusual for somebody to spend the amount of selling. You did associate a name, buy in, how did that transition go for you and within the practice.
00:24:18:21 – 00:24:19:22
Chris Strevens
And who mentioned I.
00:24:20:19 – 00:24:21:09
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah.
00:24:21:18 – 00:24:24:12
Chris Strevens
Did you ask did he say or she said.
00:24:25:10 – 00:24:53:19
Loven Ganeswaren
How did the transition go. I, I guess there was, there were multiple factors like anything in life. I think I started at that practice when the new prince, one of the senior partner who founded the practice, 30 years ago, was hitting sort of 60 to. But I had a really great relationship with him. And I still I have so much respect for that guy, Phil Wiltshire.
00:24:55:02 – 00:25:12:17
Loven Ganeswaren
He taught me so much. He taught me all these things about loving, you know, what life’s about experiences, not about, there’s not about and there’s so many life lessons he he’d been through the journey where he’d owned nursing homes and and he went, he had, he wrote the highs and then he hit, you know, hit the lows hard as well during that journey.
00:25:12:24 – 00:25:41:06
Loven Ganeswaren
And I learned so his like so much wisdom from from from him. And I almost felt like he was like a mentor in many ways as a as a human being for his ability to to really distill down what business means in life, if that makes sense, that that, you know, when you’re young and you’re energetic and you want to do well things, you know what really matters when you’re 62?
00:25:41:10 – 00:25:55:18
Loven Ganeswaren
When is that? When you come to the close of it, was it really worth it? You know, you look back and say, I wish I did this, wish I did that. So he kind of helped me stay very grounded and he gave me that opportunity. Yeah.
00:25:58:19 – 00:26:34:21
Loven Ganeswaren
And then I think going off and that like I was very fortunate, like my father, he, he getting back to that story as well. He went on to then have a quite, quite a successful career at Johnson and Johnson. He became the director of training for EMEA for sort of Johnson Johnson ICAP. And what he did was he developed a really interesting coaching and business development coaching platform where he was he was providing consultancy on that level.
00:26:35:03 – 00:26:59:03
Loven Ganeswaren
So he started coaching me at that point on business development, right? So hey, love a new identity. You know nothing about this stuff. Let me coaching on how to like on management structures. Right. And I thought, oh amazing. Okay great. This in tune with sir retiring saying to me he said to me five years before he retired said love and I’m on my way out soon from dentistry.
00:26:59:08 – 00:27:23:11
Loven Ganeswaren
What do you think? You up for it? And then that’s how. So I spent five is being trained again. I think life is like circumstance and opportunity and whether you’re whether your is up to you to to grasp hold of those opportunities but I tried to be a sponge and sit and listen to my dad. She was able to give me that advice in the transition period between open like so retiring.
00:27:23:11 – 00:27:30:19
Loven Ganeswaren
But that advice was also really helpful for spinning off into the entrepreneurial world with with the startup as well. So I think.
00:27:31:02 – 00:27:47:24
Andy Acton
You know, and you said you said yes to it. A lot of people would have heard the opportunity for different reasons would have would have passed on. Yes ignored it whatever. So and the fact you had that kind of almost that real world MBA working long in the background, preparing you for getting into business ownership, which yeah.
00:27:48:09 – 00:28:09:08
Loven Ganeswaren
I was very lucky. I was very lucky to be the right time. My place with somebody who I had a great relationship with, with someone who felt like I could continue his legacy as well. But giving me five years as a transition point to save up the money to buy the practice, which was and also support that journey, which he did.
00:28:09:20 – 00:28:28:01
Chris Strevens
And then actually I mean, when you think about it, we we hear quite a lot of stories of right by the sort of the principal has said the same thing. And then basically when they’ve come to the that time they want to go, they just haven’t followed through. So you end up with guys, you sort of said, don’t worry, don’t worry, don’t worry.
00:28:28:02 – 00:28:39:15
Chris Strevens
I’ll actually I can get a better value on the open market and it’s a it’s lovely to hear that there was that that trust from him and trust from you actually you’re going to follow through with it.
00:28:39:15 – 00:29:07:17
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah, I mean, I was a guy who had no clue why would he give it to me? I was like a dentist, like at least 53 years in with that, with ambitious ideas. But he trusted me and he gave me the time to be to nurture my skills and not just jump in in the deep end. And when the time was right for him, he transitioned out and he still supported me after that as well throughout the whole process, and he still does to this day.
00:29:07:17 – 00:29:25:24
Loven Ganeswaren
So I’m having great mentors is is so essential to wanting to do anything that’s beyond let’s let let’s face it, we don’t get trained on how to run a dental practice right? We get we would just about get trained on how to do a root canal at uni. Right. And it’s a different skill set, it’s a different mindset.
00:29:27:13 – 00:29:53:16
Loven Ganeswaren
And on my journey, what I’m seeing more and more and I love this and I’m seeing more and more female dental practice owners during this journey because maybe as a male, you know, I naturally in during that time I was sort of like seeing my male mentors running businesses, right? And so naturally I’ve been veering towards them for advice and stuff like that.
00:29:54:06 – 00:30:19:00
Loven Ganeswaren
But to actually as a female break the mold considering 70% of dentistry is like female. And I’m seeing like through side, I’m seeing I’m talking to female practitioners. I love it. It’s incredible. It’s like, why not like the level the playing field needs to be leveled and it’s great to see within a male or female. It doesn’t matter if you want to own a practice in the practice.
00:30:19:00 – 00:30:27:09
Loven Ganeswaren
But females, you know, there’s such a large population and representation of practice owners is not quite is not quite but it’s not that Jane.
00:30:27:10 – 00:30:41:05
Andy Acton
Is the thing. I think it’s about representation, isn’t it? You know, when you look at the number of dentists we have in the country and the split between sexes, that’s not represented in practice ownership and hopefully as years rolled on that that will change.
00:30:41:21 – 00:30:53:06
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah, well, only if they want to. That’s the other thing. It’s the ownership of everyone. Yeah. It doesn’t make you more successful because you’re a practice, all right? It just means that that’s what you want to do, and that’s the path you follow.
00:30:54:09 – 00:31:09:22
Andy Acton
But I always I think for the good of the profession, I think get inputs from different types of people in different situations and different sexes means you get a greater inflow of information, which means that’s got to be good for the profession, good for patients, good for innovative things. Well.
00:31:10:08 – 00:31:10:19
Chris Strevens
Obviously.
00:31:11:04 – 00:31:34:08
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah. You guys know that, like when building a team, diversity only breeds better ideas, new perspective, new world views, right? Yes. The more diverse we are as a as as an industry, as a community, as as whatever it is we see, we have different viewpoints. And then we can innovate in new ways with new ideas and make the profession stronger and better.
00:31:34:19 – 00:31:42:06
Loven Ganeswaren
So I’m excited to see that come through. And, you know, it’s, it’s it’s quite nice.
00:31:42:20 – 00:32:10:00
Andy Acton
Yeah. You just Lucy made reference to Chair Side, which was the business you founded back in 2017, the patient communication platform. I’ve started a number of different businesses over the years, on and off sort of road to where we are now and it’s not easy is flipping hard work from scratch and is working and the road can be bumpy, but it is hugely fulfilling.
00:32:10:14 – 00:32:22:14
Andy Acton
What was the what was the spark that started? What is today, though, well known as chair side? And what were the the bumps in the road that kind of derailed you.
00:32:23:12 – 00:32:49:07
Loven Ganeswaren
Really interesting question about the story and the and what you guys have said about it being incredibly enjoyable, incredibly hard. There is a beautiful naivety that comes when you start a business at the big early doors, so you are all excited and you are happy to take on any challenge. And I still would. But every day it is a challenge and it has its roadblocks.
00:32:49:13 – 00:33:16:21
Loven Ganeswaren
So this started because Kerry and I is my best mate. We went to we met when we was sort of 17, 18 towards the tail end of university to tell him to school. And then we sort of live together at uni as well. We went on my foundation year. I went to Sri Lanka with Kerry. We revisited because the war ended in 2009.
00:33:16:21 – 00:33:40:08
Loven Ganeswaren
So now this is 2010 and we contacted some dental companies and we packed our suitcase with filling material and other dental material. And we basically went to some orphanages in the northeast of Sri Lanka and we did some dental work that now is a big hoo ha of like, Oh yeah, we’re going to do some charity work and feel good, feel great, you know, look at how, how lovely we are as people.
00:33:40:08 – 00:34:06:09
Loven Ganeswaren
But the intent was that to do that. But actually we probably came away with absolute gratitude and appreciation for our positions in life, and we probably took more from that than we actually gave to more from them than we actually gave to them. If I’ll be honest with you, there’s only so much someone can do once a year going and doing dental treatment to to to kids who are orphans.
00:34:06:09 – 00:34:22:16
Loven Ganeswaren
And these orphaned kids were kids who had like literally one of them had shrapnel still buried in their skin and had no parents. Right. One of them didn’t have an arm and a leg on one side of their body because when the bombs hit, only half of their body fell into the bunker, that the other half was exposed.
00:34:22:16 – 00:34:46:23
Loven Ganeswaren
Right. Crazy stuff. And these are like 11, 12 year olds, right? So we’re doing dental treatment, but we never seen these kids so happy. You know, they didn’t have much. They never learned how to brush their teeth let alone I mean, only toothbrush at that point, let alone actually have some of the niceties. So but there’s one thing we did do that stuck.
00:34:46:23 – 00:35:03:09
Loven Ganeswaren
We taught them a song with visuals on how to brush their teeth in the native language with a mix of English as well. My Tamil is terrible, by the way. Like, yeah, that’s like I get from my from my grandmas all the way through down there that my whole family just say to me, love and you need to learn how to speak Tamil.
00:35:03:09 – 00:35:29:20
Loven Ganeswaren
I’m like, Oh, let me refine my English first. But yeah, so I’m like, we tried to teach these these kids this song. All right. Two years later, revisiting those orphanages, not only did the kids who who were there from two years ago, not only could they recite this song like full motion like that, the new kids who’d come had learned the song.
00:35:30:18 – 00:35:58:09
Loven Ganeswaren
And something about the song was about brushing your teeth. It was literally twice a day for 2 minutes at the top, at the bottom, round and round in circles. In the native language. Yeah. And then something that I was like speaking with kid was like, Wow, I can’t be so humble. He came in, he’s not a dentist. And he was literally being he was honest, like his with his his he had a he had his gloves on and he had a lamp.
00:35:58:09 – 00:36:16:14
Loven Ganeswaren
And we we had these little beds and we would treating these kids on beds in an orphanage. And he used a torch to to help me see. And he didn’t really understand dentistry at the time. But then when we came back, he’s like, wow. We were always like, we could go and do fillings every year or two. Great.
00:36:16:24 – 00:36:35:15
Loven Ganeswaren
There’s dentist there that can do that. But what actually resonates here is that every every one of these orphanages are singing this song on how to brush their teeth. And now these kids are taking away how to brush their teeth on a daily basis on a month. And they’re doing this twice a day in toothbrushes and like let’s talk about prevention here.
00:36:35:15 – 00:37:05:18
Loven Ganeswaren
Right. That’s one of the fundamentals that you could start with is teaching them how to brush their teeth. And I know it’s so simple, but it was the visuals and the oral and the singing that actually stuck out of everything we did. Hmm. So coming back, did some research and found out that, you know what, 170 kids a day being put to sleep under general anesthetic in the UK to have their teeth removed because the tooth decay from something that is a largely preventable disease.
00:37:06:13 – 00:37:36:14
Loven Ganeswaren
94% of the population suffer from some form of the spectrum of gum disease, with 48% chronic gum disease. And that 48% stems that chronic gum disease can stem into what, cardiovascular disease and Alzheimer’s? The links of that. Right. There’s a huge education piece here on preventable disease and that resonated with me. But being a foundation dentistry now for six years I was a trained foundation dentist for six years out of the last 12, every year I saw them come in.
00:37:36:14 – 00:37:58:21
Loven Ganeswaren
They’re all scared. They’re also scared of doing treatment, 90% of them, according to Raj Rattan, scared of being sued, right? That’s not fair on them. That was really not fair on them because they come in with an open heart, with the right intent, but already in a fearful place to do what is already a daunting prospect of treating teeth.
00:37:58:21 – 00:38:23:00
Loven Ganeswaren
When you come out, come out, you know, having done ten root canals. Barely, right? Barely. So how do you help these kids come through and nurture them and give them the protection they need? And a lot of that litigation came from poor communication. So Shahzad stems from the fact that how do we solve how do we make it safer and easier for dentists to communicate with patients effectively so that patients can make better decisions about their health?
00:38:23:00 – 00:38:31:08
Loven Ganeswaren
And that’s fundamentally the vision of Shahzad, is to help patients make better decisions about their health through giving dentists the tools that they need to empower their patients.
00:38:32:07 – 00:38:53:01
Andy Acton
What what a lovely start point, though, that it came about as a as a result of seeing how powerful patient communication was in some rural villages with orphans in Sri Lanka. So the impact my you know, in forming that patient base through a creative form of communication, the impact it had.
00:38:53:01 – 00:39:12:12
Chris Strevens
And links brilliantly with the with your spoke a word doesn’t it because obviously that’s something that you’ve got in that creative part of your brain. Yeah. That you use that to turn it into the song for brushing your teeth and then have gone on to sort of like, you know, capitalize on it, maximize it, whatever, utilize it.
00:39:12:18 – 00:39:36:21
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah, I mean, no, thank you. I think me it’s a case of when you’re, if you know, you’re always doing things that that that fundamentally which aside what we said, what Kiran and I said was as long as the purpose is pure and then the impact is improving outcomes for patients and we’re providing solutions, we will always have a place in society.
00:39:37:01 – 00:40:04:02
Loven Ganeswaren
Right? That’s how I see it. It’s just how well how good the quality of the product, how well we develop it, the the the execution, the ability, the execution. And that all comes down to the culture of the company and how strong the culture of our company is. And so building culture at that point was the first thing we wanted to do was to create the right environment with the we want to build a company that lasts the test of time and.
00:40:04:02 – 00:40:11:18
Loven Ganeswaren
It’s really exciting to talk to you about this because I think I might listen back to this many, many years down the line because it’s still the beginning of our journey. But the.
00:40:11:23 – 00:40:12:10
Chris Strevens
Legacy.
00:40:12:24 – 00:40:31:03
Loven Ganeswaren
That’s yeah, I mean, we can talk about OKRs and we can talk about ways of working in sprints and agile working and all of this. But fundamentally, you’ve got to get the culture right. And Kiri and I stay straight from the beginning, from both our journeys because he’s his parents are also from Sri Lanka and they’ve also, you know, been refugees as a result.
00:40:31:03 – 00:40:55:23
Loven Ganeswaren
And we’ve both come from that background and we’ve also seen our uncles or parents will go and start up multiple businesses here and there because they didn’t have sometimes education. The only thing they could do was build businesses right? So we’ve seen how they’ve done it with not much in their pocket, through sheer discipline, determination. And literally it’s either that or they’ve got an hourly job somewhere.
00:40:56:01 – 00:41:17:17
Loven Ganeswaren
Right. And some of them did that. Some of them didn’t, but we learned from that. And so we were very lucky and we said, look, we want to build something. We’ve had very a great upbringing, so many advantages and so many opportunities that we’ve had. Like I’m a dentist sitting here now talking to you when like we were in Sri Lanka treating these kids like they had nothing.
00:41:17:17 – 00:41:30:19
Loven Ganeswaren
But they’re probably happier than a lot of the people I know. Right. Which is which is really weird. So like that’s why going back to that question of success is actually success make you happy? I’m not sure. It depends on your definition of success.
00:41:30:19 – 00:41:53:02
Chris Strevens
It’s an interesting one, isn’t it, really that sort of those journeys I mean, we’ve done a fair few of these now of and what’s interesting there’s this there’s a common theme, sort of an undercurrent, something that is sort of almost galvanized or informed and laid down that almost DNA you for how you go forward with your life in.
00:41:53:02 – 00:42:17:00
Andy Acton
This interest mutual culture. I think the principles in the foundations that set you on the path to create so side is almost the culture wasn’t in doubt because it was built on such a strong passion for seeing the impact of improved patient communication as a result, your joint experience in Sri Lanka, you know, that is kind of just the mantra that just gets fed to everything within that business.
00:42:17:00 – 00:42:31:05
Andy Acton
So I think you’re you’re spot on if you can get cultural insight, the beginning, everything else is is so much easier but you present it with to your your your spectacles are too rosy. There must have been some bumps on the way. Must have been some hard yards in there as well.
00:42:31:05 – 00:42:32:07
Loven Ganeswaren
Where you got 100%.
00:42:32:13 – 00:42:33:06
Andy Acton
Right thing to do.
00:42:33:24 – 00:42:57:11
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah. I mean, we pitched it to 25 investors in one go and not a single one invested in on day one. That was day one that was off a PowerPoint presentation with no skin in the game, no proof of anything. We we spun up the concept and we had one of our one of the guys who came on the trip with us to Sri Lanka who ran a charity Equal Time Late.
00:42:57:17 – 00:43:30:12
Loven Ganeswaren
He said he’s an accountant and an accounting firm. And he said, All right, guys, let me get you in front of some investors to see what this looks like. Right. So like giving you the temperature. And we said, look, guys, the future of health care is this is visual learning. 65% of patients are visual learners. Yet 100% of our consults available and aside, fills that void between visual understanding and because we could we improve communication, we solve all of these problems X, Y, Z, you know, patient health outcomes, litigation, even like practice, performance and case acceptance, better communication.
00:43:30:14 – 00:43:50:05
Loven Ganeswaren
You’re going to you’re going to perform better goodwill as well. The whole shebang. We try and solve we try to optimize communication, do the best for the patient, and everything else will come as a result reached. When we’re seeing that, we’re seeing 32% increase in case acceptance. We’re seeing all of that. But, you know, it’s all well and good saying it to investors.
00:43:50:08 – 00:44:15:04
Loven Ganeswaren
We’re saying it and putting it out there when you don’t have any proof and then trying to get them to back it. So we didn’t have any. So Kerry and I, what we did was for two years, whether this was the right thing or the wrong thing, we basically worked full time and every evening and weekend we put our own earnings into, a pot that we used to build and develop the product or the animations or the content.
00:44:16:22 – 00:44:35:01
Loven Ganeswaren
The we got patents secure it and we sort of did all of that. And it was it was a very costly exercise. I’m not sure if it was the right thing to do, but what we did was we, we went as far as we could on a personal liability level to direct the company to make it attractive to investors.
00:44:36:09 – 00:44:55:17
Loven Ganeswaren
And that took time. And there was a lot of sweat in it. And there were lots of money, a lot of money wasted on things that we didn’t know we were doing that was right or wrong. A lot of a lot of agencies that we wasted a lot of cash on that might not have worked. And but yeah, but I tell you what, we may have wasted, you know, a few thousand then.
00:44:55:17 – 00:45:25:20
Loven Ganeswaren
But having learned those lessons, we probably save a few 10,000 now to tens of thousands now knowing that that was the right thing to do. And we learned that from all. We also understood each other’s learning styles and working styles. You know, the beautiful thing about Kerry is he’s he complements the things I’m really bad at. Right. And at the same time, I probably open his mind to, like, a world of opportunities that he is kind of more ready to do the day to day.
00:45:25:20 – 00:45:45:08
Loven Ganeswaren
Like, I’m going to I’m going to end today. And I’m like, Yeah, but this is the long term visions. This is where we go and will complement each other. So but during that time, it was almost like learning on the go. So after we proven a few concepts, we got our first investment from our first angel investor. And it was after that.
00:45:45:08 – 00:45:59:14
Loven Ganeswaren
And since then, actually we’ve not had any know since the third investment round. We’ve not had anyone turn down investing in our side up until now anyway. But we’ve had in the first three rounds we’ve had surplus of like 40 rejections.
00:45:59:22 – 00:46:16:01
Andy Acton
So a story to tell often because I think that the danger with life being what it is and we were talking before about kind of your ego and social media and we we tend to celebrate when success comes. And each night I would sing for people to hear how he.
00:46:16:19 – 00:46:23:07
Chris Strevens
Uses Starbucks or Starbucks 281 rejections or so on before someone funded Starbucks.
00:46:23:16 – 00:46:43:13
Andy Acton
And it’s and it’s great to hear that you are where you are now. But for anybody else thinking about embarking on a new business or a startup or whatever, you know, they need to know that it’s is absolutely doable. It’s absolutely fulfilling and it’s going to push you to the limit. And all those things are okay now. So all those things are okay and actually enjoyable.
00:46:43:13 – 00:47:05:10
Andy Acton
Yeah. And the thing is, yeah, that thing you said about, you know, you kind of quickly reframe to money, you base it on agencies to what you learned from the process. And I think that’s what is sure that money was spent, but it meant you kept pushing on and now you’re in a much better shape as a result of that real life experience, because somebody with more expense could have told you what it was going to be like.
00:47:05:12 – 00:47:14:23
Andy Acton
That’s not the reality. The reality is that isn’t the reality. The reality is you living and breathing and going through it yourself. That’s that’s that’s what really matters.
00:47:15:05 – 00:47:15:19
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah.
00:47:15:24 – 00:47:21:00
Chris Strevens
And failing fast I think is a really important thing to learn. That’s how you get rid of it.
00:47:21:07 – 00:47:42:20
Loven Ganeswaren
It’s so important to fail fast to make to to, to. But but you have to learn. You have to learn. And you really learn when you do things and you make mistakes. Yeah, it’s the same in dentistry. You know. You’ve got to do that composite that’s slightly outside of your comfort zone in the growth phase. Where to to understand that, you know, maybe it didn’t quite work.
00:47:42:20 – 00:48:08:14
Loven Ganeswaren
And then from it, I learned a lot from my mistakes. I’ve learned a lot from my practicing because I’ve been in the same practice for 12 years. I can still look at these days. I did 12 years ago and I can still look at the restorations I did, you know, six years ago. And I can I’ve been able to critically assess myself from X-rays and from and there’s always opportunities to learn and always things to do.
00:48:08:14 – 00:48:14:01
Loven Ganeswaren
And if you’re not constantly doing that, you know, you’re not growing really, are you?
00:48:14:01 – 00:48:25:06
Chris Strevens
And no, that’s if if technique journey in your 12 years. Yeah. You know from your from what you did first time round what you do now there’s probably a big difference between oh.
00:48:25:06 – 00:48:26:02
Loven Ganeswaren
Massively.
00:48:26:15 – 00:48:33:21
Chris Strevens
So that’s quite a good one really isn’t. You must always got a constant reminder of that. Yep. Okay, I could do better.
00:48:34:02 – 00:49:06:06
Loven Ganeswaren
There’s constant feedback. Yeah. This is a prime example for that. For constant growth. The course dental course is right now. Like, I mean, how many people spend thousands of pounds on any course and it’s a no brainer, right? They’ll go in it. That’s what I love the motivation of dentists like. They’re willing to just constantly excel, constantly improve, constantly grow, or the ones who are the ones who will and will continue to to to push the industry, push the profession forward.
00:49:06:11 – 00:49:27:00
Andy Acton
Yeah. I was going to say it is a remarkable profession in that way. We were talking the beginning of it about kind of creativity and your you were drawn to the profession through to the craft. And there’s obviously a strong and arguably increasing artistic element to dentistry the way where we are now, where it’s like to be in the future.
00:49:28:07 – 00:49:46:19
Andy Acton
You obviously creative in a different way as well in that you you rap and you do the spoken word and stuff with that sounds new. Yeah I think just is whether has that influence your dentistry or your dentistry influence that or did it to just co-exist side by side? Is there like to a point where you kind of benefit in one area or the other.
00:49:46:20 – 00:50:21:18
Loven Ganeswaren
That did I think when I was 14, I loved I loved the whole hip hop era. I grew up in that era. And I think also a lot of my, like the community I was in resonated with that sort of rags to riches stories like inspired by those hip hop stories of when you see because even if you imagine this, like with kids, like of of immigrant parents like first generation and we’re listening to hip hop stories of people from the streets with nothing making something out of their lives.
00:50:21:18 – 00:50:38:14
Loven Ganeswaren
Right. I’m like, oh, wow, yeah, look, these guys did it. And then you start writing your own story a little bit right through that journey, and then you realize that actually the world and already maybe for loving the rapper when he was 14. But I’m very.
00:50:38:19 – 00:50:43:02
Chris Strevens
Much Snoop Dogg. Snoop Dogg. 5 million for just the Eagles.
00:50:43:14 – 00:51:06:15
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah, something like that. Yeah. But I loved writing. I love the I loved it, I loved it, I loved it. And actually, weirdly at school, maybe, you know, there’s some kids who are who will look to for their or respected for that football skills or some kids that were respected for their academia or whatnot. Right. Or being great rugby would have been good looking at it.
00:51:06:21 – 00:51:15:24
Loven Ganeswaren
But for me I always found that it was because when it was battle rap in other schools, I would be the guy who’d represent our I’m.
00:51:16:03 – 00:51:16:17
Chris Strevens
Like a rapper.
00:51:16:23 – 00:51:25:09
Loven Ganeswaren
I didn’t. Well, at the time, when you’re 18 or 15 or 16, you know, you try to fit in and I did I did try.
00:51:25:21 – 00:51:26:02
Chris Strevens
Think.
00:51:29:04 – 00:51:53:22
Loven Ganeswaren
It wasn’t a good look for me. I’ll be honest with you. I think I think I’m so glad smartphones weren’t around then, but there’s no photographic evidence. Don’t ask me that. He’s got something. But yeah, so the rapping. Rapping was really cool for that and just just storytelling. And I think, I think why I liked it was because I without again, without any ego, I tend to win some of those battles.
00:51:54:04 – 00:52:23:00
Loven Ganeswaren
And so it gave me this identity of loving, Oh, this is your thing. You’re good at this. You’re good at that’s all rapping. You’re good at telling stories through raps, love. And you should do something with this. If you’re not, you’re not fulfilling your potential. Right. And that kind of maybe haunted me as a gift in the course, to be honest with you, because it almost like it was like like at that time, Afro-Caribbean black rappers were not mainstream still from the UK.
00:52:23:00 – 00:52:39:09
Loven Ganeswaren
They just it wasn’t a thing. And I loved the fact that that now Stormzy is who he is. Yeah, because you couldn’t imagine that. I mean, Dizzee Rascal was the first, but he was a one off. And for 20 years it took all of us to grow up to be the consumer to then allow that industry to thrive.
00:52:39:10 – 00:52:57:11
Loven Ganeswaren
Right? And now you’ve got loads of them. And I love that. I love that. But there definitely not a time in society at that point where I think the world was ready for an Asian rapper. Maybe not, right? So now just playing with this passion thing and realizing that, is there really an opportunity? It’s really against all odds.
00:52:57:11 – 00:53:03:18
Loven Ganeswaren
Should I really pursue it? And also, by the way, you’re a dentist. You know, you can have a very comfortable career, let’s face it, a proper.
00:53:03:18 – 00:53:03:23
Chris Strevens
Job.
00:53:03:23 – 00:53:16:20
Loven Ganeswaren
Being a dentist and enjoy that. Yeah, exactly. So it was a it was a conflict of this is my identity versus this is my profession and there’s only so many hours in life.
00:53:16:20 – 00:53:17:10
Chris Strevens
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:53:17:11 – 00:53:25:13
Loven Ganeswaren
And what do you want to hone your craft on and what do you want to be great at? And that then became dentistry and arguably is.
00:53:25:18 – 00:53:29:05
Andy Acton
But there’s nothing like it. You said you can’t keep you can’t stop scratching.
00:53:29:05 – 00:53:30:20
Chris Strevens
With a side order of rapping.
00:53:30:24 – 00:53:57:01
Loven Ganeswaren
We decided that is the itch that I decided to scratch in June when I decided to do some spoken word. And this was stuff I’ve been writing for the past ten years. And interestingly, whether it was timing or not, but society’s come to a place where the stuff I rap about is actually become relevant now. Whereas when I was when I was writing, doing the song, the spoken word stuff that I do now, I don’t think would have resonated ten years ago, if I’ll be honest with you.
00:53:57:11 – 00:54:22:18
Andy Acton
Yeah, I think sometimes time is right. It’s interesting what you say about, you know, the very strong Afro-Caribbean heritage and you saying, you know, the world wasn’t ready for an Asian rapper, just saying that today just seems made. The you know, we live in London, so it’s incredibly diverse and multicultural. But it’s funny how you sometimes just need the timing to be right for certain things to blend.
00:54:22:18 – 00:54:45:13
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah, absolutely. And if you if you take, for example, the singing dentist, Mel are exceptionally talented and he actually was on in the scene when so solid were doing their thing. He was in the scene and he and I think timings worked really well for him now because you can clearly see he’s a very talented rapper. Right. And he’s found his position now.
00:54:46:00 – 00:55:02:06
Loven Ganeswaren
But like he could have easily been that guy then. And society was open to it too, right? Yeah. So it’s it’s actually really nice to see people doing their thing, representing themselves and the passion that they’ve got for it. And, you know, you have it from childhood. You can’t let go.
00:55:03:02 – 00:55:09:09
Andy Acton
But also things can change quickly. As I was very fortunate to be at Glastonbury in 2019 when Stormzy headlined.
00:55:09:23 – 00:55:10:14
Loven Ganeswaren
All Right.
00:55:10:14 – 00:55:29:12
Andy Acton
He said, he said, he said, I don’t think even two years ago this could have happened. And it’s amazing how, you know, as a grime artist to headline on the pyramid stage, on the biggest stage at Glastonbury, nearly quarter of a million people there, you know, just a few years earlier that wouldn’t have even been considered on the calendar.
00:55:29:12 – 00:55:34:09
Andy Acton
So things conflict that quite often is a tipping point, isn’t there, where things just kind of turn.
00:55:34:09 – 00:56:01:17
Loven Ganeswaren
Out that there is. And I think right now there is a tipping point in dentistry, post-COVID. And I think dental practices are really and patients are really interested in in that in their dental health, whether it be cosmetics, whether it be orthodontics. And I think dental practices are gearing up really nicely, or at least the early adopters to that to that world are gearing up for it.
00:56:01:17 – 00:56:25:22
Loven Ganeswaren
And I’m excited for the industry moving forward because one thing I’ve been very fortunate to do is study the strategy and the the almost the mechanics, how ideas spread, whether it be grime and stormzy when Dizzee Rascal and Wiley were the originals, right? And if you look at the originals and then the ones who actually commercially make it 20 years ago, 20 years later, sorry.
00:56:26:07 – 00:56:54:24
Loven Ganeswaren
And if you look at how ideas spread like electric cars or the iPad and that’s the same, which aside. Yeah, it’s the same thing. It’s like it will become mainstream I have no doubt about that. And it’s just at that point where the early adopters are excited by it and pioneering it, and there is a certain personality type that comes after that tipping point that’s willing to accept the new status quo.
00:56:55:08 – 00:56:56:04
Andy Acton
Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:56:57:06 – 00:57:00:20
Loven Ganeswaren
And the infrastructure has to be in place for it, too. So we’re gearing up for that.
00:57:01:04 – 00:57:17:00
Andy Acton
Yeah, but also hugely exciting for you. We always ask our guests the same two questions at the end. Before we get to that, we’ve got one more question which links back to the music you got played on BBC Radio One? Yeah, yeah.
00:57:17:00 – 00:57:38:19
Loven Ganeswaren
Um, so when I was actually doing less spoken word and more rap, it was in my fourth year of uni. I met up with this producer. His name is Charles Bosco and. He he’s incredibly talented. Again, same from similar background. And I also have this friend called Argent who’s again incredibly talented. And at that moment in time there was something happening in the Asian music industry.
00:57:39:02 – 00:58:00:23
Loven Ganeswaren
Right. So I would I would make English raps. Yeah, I would go to BBC one extra and they’d say to me, It’s not quite grimy enough. But then I’d go to the BBC Asian Network and they say it’s not quite bhangra enough. And I was like, Oh, right, like I just want to rap, right? I just want to tell stories.
00:58:00:23 – 00:58:24:24
Loven Ganeswaren
But the music is so relevant. Which radio station this place. So Chas Busker is a master of mixing ethnic samples with Western beats and there was a big dubstep era at that time, right? So he spun out. So we sat down. We like that sample. Sounds amazing. Here’s what dubstep sounds like. Let’s mix it. And I and I.
00:58:24:24 – 00:58:51:15
Loven Ganeswaren
And then we rapped over it and we sent out to radio, right. And got played on BBC Asian Network, first of all. And we were number one on the Asian network charts for a month on that of that track that then crossed over to BBC Radio One. And so we got played on BBC Radio One for about eight weeks and then three other tracks after I got played on BBC Radio one for eight weeks.
00:58:51:24 – 00:59:27:01
Loven Ganeswaren
So then this is when I’m thinking I’m a fourth year uni, I’m graduating in year, in fifth year, I’m thinking, wow, I’m finally on Radio One. Is there anything what can come of this? But you know, a lot of those songs were again played in the evening, specialist radio stations at 7 p.m. onwards sort of thing, which were great, which is fine because it’s never going to hit the playlist and you know, it was never going to be 10 a.m. in the morning, but it was still 7 p.m., 8 p.m., you know, those tracks were being played and it was it was just a nice moment to to, to connect, I guess, with a moment
00:59:27:15 – 00:59:39:21
Loven Ganeswaren
in the dubstep era with my own identity of ethnic samples, working with great people like Charles in Charge and then putting my own storytelling over it. But again, timing, right?
00:59:41:00 – 01:00:02:02
Andy Acton
Yeah. And also you don’t need physical, you know, what what impact would I have had on other young people similar to yourself that would have listened to that back in that era? It was like a lollipop moment where they thought, what? The minute I’m not I’ve not heard this before and I did that give somebody the inspiration, you know, the nudge they needed to go and then do that.
01:00:02:02 – 01:00:06:13
Andy Acton
There wasn’t a roadmap. Yeah, I know. I’ve asked. Fabulous is.
01:00:06:14 – 01:00:07:08
Loven Ganeswaren
Bloodshot has gone.
01:00:07:14 – 01:00:08:08
Chris Strevens
On Spotify.
01:00:09:24 – 01:00:13:06
Loven Ganeswaren
Haven’t actually got anything on Spotify. It’s like almost identical.
01:00:13:06 – 01:00:14:19
Chris Strevens
There’s an opening there then must.
01:00:17:01 – 01:00:18:06
Andy Acton
So so.
01:00:18:06 – 01:00:18:23
Chris Strevens
Your manager.
01:00:21:07 – 01:00:32:16
Andy Acton
So love and we always finish up in the same where we was also I guess the same two questions and the first for you is if you could be a fly on the wall in a situation when and when or where would you be and who would you be with.
01:00:34:14 – 01:00:51:01
Loven Ganeswaren
Really? I thought about this because it came through in the email, the question, and I was like, okay, there is actually just one moment that really that I’d really loved to be a fly on the wall for. It was when do you remember when Eric Cantona did that kung fu kick? Crystal Palace. Crystal Palace.
01:00:51:09 – 01:00:52:23
Andy Acton
The crowd didn’t think so.
01:00:52:23 – 01:01:14:07
Loven Ganeswaren
Here’s my issue, sir. Alex Ferguson, he let go. I admired this guy so much, right? He let go of Roy Keane. He’s captain, right? Because he was he thought he’s too big. He was bigger than the team. Right. He let go David Beckham for a similar reason. He let go so many people because there’s no one plan with the Christianity education right now.
01:01:14:07 – 01:01:37:03
Loven Ganeswaren
You wonder you wonder how Alex Ferguson would deal with this. It probably wouldn’t have got to this point, to be honest with you, Alex. Is that but but how does Eric Cantona throw a flying kick? And still, I would just love to be there for that conversation, because what my understanding is, was from what Bryan Robson said in one of his or was it.
01:01:37:20 – 01:01:55:14
Loven Ganeswaren
Yeah, Bryan Robson said in one of his his podcasts, I think in an interview he was like typically when United Lose, he’d say to the boys, they say, All right, let’s just do an extra lap after the game. You know, the gaffer’s a bit. He’s a bit he’s a bit heated right now? Let’s just spend some time out here before we go back into the dressing room.
01:01:56:08 – 01:02:20:00
Loven Ganeswaren
But when Eric Cantona did that flying kick, you’re like, All right, boys, let’s get into the let’s get into the dressing room right now. This is going to be class because I like the viewpoint here. Was that how he treated Eric Cantona in a very different way because of that countenance personality? He’s a very passionate guy. He’s he loved football and he was actually a Ronaldo of his time almost.
01:02:20:00 – 01:02:28:21
Loven Ganeswaren
He was like a very special player. He Couldn’t give him the hairdryer treatment, right? No. So I wonder how he managed that situation. Mm hmm.
01:02:29:01 – 01:02:50:11
Andy Acton
I think that was his superpower, his ability to manage. He didn’t manage a team. He managed individual people, and he knew what levers to pull, buttons to push, to get the best out of people. And for whatever reason, he felt that, you know, he managed Cantona in a particular way. But yeah, now that would be a great a great one to watch.
01:02:50:18 – 01:03:10:04
Loven Ganeswaren
I’m just I’m so intrigued to see what he said to him. How did he manage him without his consent? I would have been very passionate about that and very adamant that that was the right thing to do. Obviously, it’s not the right thing to do. Right. How do you do that without forcing the player out, disagreeing with him, but also disciplining them to know that that’s not acceptable?
01:03:10:10 – 01:03:13:15
Loven Ganeswaren
Right. When someone is purely emotional about the sport.
01:03:14:09 – 01:03:23:13
Andy Acton
Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Very good one. Yeah. That will be great to watch. Your first question is if you could meet somebody, who would you like to meet if you were given the opportunity?
01:03:23:16 – 01:03:25:13
Chris Strevens
Living or dead real or fiction.
01:03:25:20 – 01:04:04:00
Loven Ganeswaren
And real or fiction. Interesting. Do you know? You know? Ah, no. This is a bit off piste, but someone I really respect is is before her creativity. J.K. Rowling, how do you create that world, that Harry Potter world that has become an absolute franchise and like phenomenon form down to like the names of the characters and its relevance to society and and and how she’s drawn from history and drawn from from, from from from historic wars in British history.
01:04:04:00 – 01:04:22:14
Loven Ganeswaren
And, and then like, split from bad and from evil and good and created this magical world that is captured, captured kids around the world, not just during that era, but even still today. Mm hmm. I find fascinating. And for me, that is almost epitome of creativity. Right.
01:04:23:00 – 01:04:35:10
Chris Strevens
Did she also plan, though? Didn’t she also work out? They were going to be, I think is seven books that I didn’t read. Do I remember? But I think she she worked out the plan before she started. Right.
01:04:35:10 – 01:04:36:05
Andy Acton
So she knew the.
01:04:36:05 – 01:04:36:20
Chris Strevens
Choices.
01:04:38:04 – 01:04:39:06
Loven Ganeswaren
And she rejected.
01:04:39:06 – 01:04:42:16
Chris Strevens
Them at the right point for the next story to follow is.
01:04:42:19 – 01:05:03:12
Loven Ganeswaren
Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Everything was almost executed to perfection and a similar story, you know, single mother, I believe, like rejected writing in little flux, writing stories in little flat, not getting a book deal only eventually it is the same story, isn’t it? You get rejected, you get rejected, you get rejected. And then something.
01:05:03:12 – 01:05:05:03
Andy Acton
Happens. Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:05:18 – 01:05:06:20
Chris Strevens
People’s resilience, it doesn’t.
01:05:06:21 – 01:05:33:10
Andy Acton
Doesn’t surprise you that you went for somebody highly creative. Given all the things you’ve done, it doesn’t surprise that you’re fascinated by somebody who’s got huge creativity in their in their own so long. And it’s been an absolute joy. It’s been such an enjoyable and pleasant conversation. I think the stuff you’re doing is great. I think people will take a lot from the work that goes into setting up something new, and I think you’ve got so much more to come.
01:05:33:10 – 01:05:36:06
Andy Acton
I think there’s lots of chapters of your your story yet to be written.
01:05:36:14 – 01:05:38:10
Chris Strevens
There’s lots of lessons in that podcast.
01:05:38:10 – 01:05:44:05
Andy Acton
Is absolutely, absolutely. And I really, really appreciate your time today and hopefully we’ll will be catching up soon.
01:05:44:16 – 01:05:45:21
Loven Ganeswaren
Thank you, guys. Thank you so much.
01:05:45:21 – 01:05:55:20
Andy Acton
Thank you for listening to this episode of technology where we discuss the business of dentistry. If you like what you heard, please do subscribe where you found this episode. That would be amazing. And also follow us on Instagram.
