Transcript – Dentology Podcast recording with Oliver Pierce
Episode release date: Monday 4 May 2023
andy___chris:
So here we are again. Welcome. How are you doing Chris? I’m very good. Thank you very much. Looking forward to this again. Pleased to hear it. Pleased to hear it. So today we are back. We are recording more podcast for Dentology, which is exciting. It is. So today we are delighted. We have a dentist, a practice owner, husband and father, and his name is Oliver Pierce. Welcome Oliver. How are you doing? Yeah. Hi Oliver.
oliver_pierce:
Good morning, I’m very well gents, thank you very much, you both okay?
andy___chris:
Yeah, we’re very good. Very good indeed. Looking forward to having a chat.
oliver_pierce:
Yeah,
andy___chris:
No snow,
oliver_pierce:
same.
andy___chris:
so that’s good. No, it’s been a funny week hasn’t it? We started with snow and now we’ve got glorious sunshine. Yeah, looking
oliver_pierce:
We’ve
andy___chris:
out
oliver_pierce:
got
andy___chris:
the window
oliver_pierce:
a bit of
andy___chris:
I
oliver_pierce:
everything.
andy___chris:
just saw some bloke go past on his parachute. Really? Yeah, some bloke’s parasitised over there which is sorry for those of you who are listening to this and you have no idea what I’m talking about but it was like well that’s a bit odd. Don’t often see that. Okay, we’re in Brooklyn’s apartment anyway. Moving on. There we go. So with dentists and you say that the only topic around the the dynamic table was dentistry so I guess the odds were stacked in your favor in terms of being a dentist
oliver_pierce:
If you view it as a positive, no, no, yeah. So,
andy___chris:
Oh, yeah, that’s the thought, yeah.
oliver_pierce:
yeah, so I, Mum and Dad met at Liverpool Dental School. Mum never wants to be a dentist. This was back in the days when, if you weren’t good enough for medicine, they said, you’re not good enough for us, but the dental school will have you.
andy___chris:
Oh wow, excellent.
oliver_pierce:
Obviously now it’s gone completely full circle. bit of a strange one really, he grew up in a little market town called Brigham, North Lincolnshire and lived quite an unfortunate upbringing. He lost his dad really young and he saw the local dentist driving around in a jag and decided I want to do what he does and worked really hard, got himself into the grammar school and he always told me about how when he went for his mother said to him, don’t tell them that your dad used to work in the steelworks. Don’t tell them. Sort of with a view that that was a bad thing.
andy___chris:
Okay
oliver_pierce:
Both got into, both got into to Liverpool. My dad was the year ahead of my mum. And then my dad qualified and bought a practice in 1984 in Wolverhampton through Frank Taylor Associates
andy___chris:
Блин.
oliver_pierce:
back in the day. And moved to Sheffield and then set up in Hull.
andy___chris:
All right.
oliver_pierce:
So I’m the second of four, the only dentist, though my elder brother is married to a dentist. And yeah, it was everywhere really. For years, I couldn’t figure out what it was, the smell, but it was the eugenol, it was the cloves,
andy___chris:
Nice, nice.
oliver_pierce:
that sort of classic dentist smell. And it was, it was the topic around the dinner table every stuffing, extensions, plans…
andy___chris:
I’ve just got in my head Christmas around the Pierce household with like with all of those people in there Should we discuss an endo treatment today?
oliver_pierce:
probably not end though, but this was back in the day of FIFA items, so it was probably the good old days of how much did you grow today,
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
where it was just a constant one-upmanship of how much did you generate. So I knew from a relatively early age, I think, that dentistry was the path that I wanted to follow. My mum always tried to persuade me against it. fully encouraged me to do it but I could sort of tell inside he would you know the thought of his son going on to do dentistry
andy___chris:
Wow. Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
was amazing for
andy___chris:
Oliver,
oliver_pierce:
him.
andy___chris:
did he buy a jack?
oliver_pierce:
he didn’t get a jag, no,
andy___chris:
Ah, so I was wondering if you bought a Jag.
oliver_pierce:
no, he didn’t get the jag in the end unfortunately. And I just knew it was what I wanted to do, I could never really sort of put my finger on why.
andy___chris:
Is that from quite a young age, Oliver? Were you quite young when that dawned
oliver_pierce:
yet.
andy___chris:
on you that the danger would be your future?
oliver_pierce:
I’d say I was about 12 or 13 and I knew
andy___chris:
That’s pretty young.
oliver_pierce:
that that was the way I wanted to go. But I also think I was really, really lucky and really fortunate. I think if you know that from that age that you want to go into, say, healthcare,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
doctor, dentistry, your path’s kind of laid out quite easily for you. And I
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
actually know a few people who didn’t really know where they wanted life to take them.
andy___chris:
ம்..
oliver_pierce:
And that’s quite tricky in a sense because you’ve got to make your decisions at sort of 14, 15,
andy___chris:
ம்..
oliver_pierce:
and then that leads into the A levels. And I think we kind of, we pitch and hold ourselves quite early on
andy___chris:
Yeah,
oliver_pierce:
in
andy___chris:
definitely.
oliver_pierce:
England.
andy___chris:
Oh, very early on. And particularly like you say, if it’s a qualification that you have to take for professional standards reasons, you know, lawyer,
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
accountant, dentist, doctor, you have to make those decisions in your mid teens. People of that age, most people, myself included, I had no idea what I wanted to do. So I agree with you that in many ways you were, I still don’t know what I wanted to do. I say not for a job. I know what I wanted to do, but not for a job. But so for you, I get what you’re saying that you felt fortunate in that it gave you that pathway in terms of choosing the right, you know, older or GCSEs
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
onto A levels, that pathway was much more mapped out for you than for many people.
oliver_pierce:
Yeah, I think if you compare us with like the American system where they go and do the college and then they major in whatever it might be, they don’t have to make those decisions too much much later, but I think as I say, I feel really lucky that I knew from such an early age, the path that I wanted to
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
take. It didn’t stop me from doing my best not to do it. And to say I knew what I wanted to do, I really should have worked a bit harder.
andy___chris:
Haha.
oliver_pierce:
But I guess everything happens
andy___chris:
Did we have a bit
oliver_pierce:
for
andy___chris:
of
oliver_pierce:
a reason.
andy___chris:
party time at university?
oliver_pierce:
Well, it was more before that, to be honest.
andy___chris:
Oh
oliver_pierce:
I,
andy___chris:
really, you run up.
oliver_pierce:
yeah, my run-up was quite a staggered run-up. And I didn’t, you know, I didn’t work as hard as I should have done in my AS levels, my A levels. And then I was unsuccessful getting a place into dental school.
andy___chris:
Oh, right, okay.
oliver_pierce:
I applied and got rejections. And then my mum had actually heard sort of down the grapevine that you could study abroad.
andy___chris:
ம்..
oliver_pierce:
the Times Education section actually. I don’t know why because we
andy___chris:
They
oliver_pierce:
never read the Times and
andy___chris:
will. Oh, the Times Education Supplement. Yeah, yeah,
oliver_pierce:
yeah
andy___chris:
yeah. Probably
oliver_pierce:
and
andy___chris:
online now.
oliver_pierce:
they published her letter, did a full two page spread about studying in Prague in particular and I applied and I remember very vividly that the admissions tutor said to your mum and dad a dentist I said yes he said so
andy___chris:
Wow.
oliver_pierce:
and had a gap year then off I went to Prague.
andy___chris:
Well, what’s interesting Oliver, you saying about, you know, you didn’t perhaps apply yourself to the extent you should have when you did your AS and A levels, the amount of people we hear who have, you know, a knockback of some sort early on, but that builds resilience, doesn’t it? And I think
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
so many people where things just keep going in your favor and working out and you have success, not experiencing failure until perhaps later in life. It can be quite a hard lesson because you’ve not equipped yourself with how to probably wasn’t a bad thing in terms of understanding that you need to be resilient and you need to apply yourself because not everything just falls in your lap just because your parents were dentist that was no passage you’ve right for you
oliver_pierce:
No.
andy___chris:
to to suddenly just walk that same path and become a dentist. No exactly.
oliver_pierce:
I think if I’m honest, I probably was guilty of thinking that I’d had a very fortunate upbringing and maybe was guilty of just thinking I would waltz into it and it would be
andy___chris:
Please
oliver_pierce:
handed to be on the plate and being unsuccessful in getting into UK dental schools definitely did bring me crashing back down in a good way. So I think everything happened for a reason.
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
And, you know, if I hadn’t had that experience, I wouldn’t be talking to you today.
andy___chris:
And did you, was it, I can’t remember, was it Kunal who had to do everything in check? Was it, didn’t he have to write everything in check? Is that the same for you? So he’s, I think all his lectures or everything he submitted had to be in check or something.
oliver_pierce:
So ours was taught in English.
andy___chris:
Right.
oliver_pierce:
We had to learn the language with a view that you would be okay to speak to patients on clinics come third and fourth year.
andy___chris:
Well.
oliver_pierce:
The reality was not the case. We obviously, you prioritise and knowing that sort of the anatomy or the physiology was gonna be more important later on in your sort of
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
university career. I know a lot of my cohort just did not apply themselves to it at all.
andy___chris:
Mm.
oliver_pierce:
It wasn’t as much as important as some of the other subjects.
andy___chris:
Right. Were there a few English people there or?
oliver_pierce:
Yeah, yeah, so it was a real mixed bag. So I got there and on the sort of the introductory day getting told around, this girl came to me and she said, your name’s Oliver. I said, yeah, she said, Oliver Pierce. I
andy___chris:
Do.
oliver_pierce:
said, yeah, she said, oh, we’ve got mutual friends and she went to the other secondary school just down the road from me. And
andy___chris:
Oh
oliver_pierce:
I’d
andy___chris:
wow.
oliver_pierce:
obviously
andy___chris:
Flippy neck.
oliver_pierce:
been a topic of conversation which I’ve never got to the bottom of know.
andy___chris:
Jermida, Jermida, Jermida, Snaggid Star.
oliver_pierce:
And then she, yeah, there was a guy from a town called Drifield, which is like 15,
andy___chris:
Oh yeah.
oliver_pierce:
20 minutes down the road. Such a small world. But then the flip side is there was people there from the Philippines, Botswana, Canada.
andy___chris:
Wow, really eclectic, yeah. Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
And yeah, so…
andy___chris:
And what was the overall experience like? We’ve had, interestingly, you’re our third guest
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
on that studied in the Czech Republic. We had Kunal Patel and I was saying, did you know how? But you studied in Prague. What was that
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
whole experience like? Did you enjoy it? Was it good? Did you kind of almost create
oliver_pierce:
and I’m going to be back
andy___chris:
this sub-community of dental students but not spend much time? Yeah. Was it kind of you were out with the Henan Stank Doos every weekend? Yes, Stank Doos.
oliver_pierce:
Yes, so I mean it was a really interesting experience. I mean when I got there Prague was unbelievably cheap so there was a pub in my apartment block and a pint was 60 pence of pint.
andy___chris:
Just to put some time frame around it. This was what the late 2000s around 2010
oliver_pierce:
Yes,
andy___chris:
about that time
oliver_pierce:
2007
andy___chris:
Right
oliver_pierce:
was when I went. So
andy___chris:
Right
oliver_pierce:
the Charles University in Prague has had the international faculty for about 25 years now.
andy___chris:
Well,
oliver_pierce:
And so it’s one of the more established ones. But
andy___chris:
hmm.
oliver_pierce:
when you scratch the surface, there are so many places that people can study abroad, Hungary, all the way to sort of like Lithuania. Spain’s really coming to the fore with
andy___chris:
Yeah,
oliver_pierce:
a lot
andy___chris:
Valencia
oliver_pierce:
of English
andy___chris:
at the
oliver_pierce:
power
andy___chris:
moment is quite popular, isn’t it? Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
nets.
andy___chris:
Mmm.
oliver_pierce:
So, it was quite a small community I would say. There was only 15 in my cohort of dentists with medicine of about 100. So it wasn’t a big university
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
by those standards. But it was good. I had its advantages and disadvantages. Those of you that have been to Prague will know it’s a beautiful city.
andy___chris:
Yeah, fabulous.
oliver_pierce:
Very nice looking women and just all things considered a really great place to spend
andy___chris:
I
oliver_pierce:
five
andy___chris:
like the
oliver_pierce:
years
andy___chris:
look over the shoulder. I was gonna say, for those of you who are listening. Yeah, for
oliver_pierce:
Yeah
andy___chris:
those that aren’t watching this on YouTube, I would have did a look over the shoulder and make sure the coast was clear.
oliver_pierce:
just checking my wife’s not kept in. But then the flip side is it could be a really lonely place.
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
My dad became ill while I was at university
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
and he sadly passed away in my fourth year of university.
andy___chris:
Oh, geez.
oliver_pierce:
And that was very difficult because I wanted to study at Leeds, which is 45 minutes from my
andy___chris:
Yeah
oliver_pierce:
house door to door. Prague, it’s a flight.
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
You know, it’s a full day to sort of get back and
andy___chris:
ம்..
oliver_pierce:
forth and that that obviously was challenging So it could also be quite a lonely place I
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
would say And you you sort of it’s quite a strange feeling Most of your listeners will never have had this boat where you’re walking down the street and everybody’s speaking a foreign language to you You feel
andy___chris:
Hmm,
oliver_pierce:
quite
andy___chris:
isolated.
oliver_pierce:
Isolated yeah, I’d say
andy___chris:
Hmm,
oliver_pierce:
isolated
andy___chris:
hmm.
oliver_pierce:
first year of national recruitment for foundation dentist. So it came to my final year and I was applying and I was fortunate enough to secure a VT position in my fifth ranked scheme which was
andy___chris:
Huh. Yeah, right. Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
I was coming back to home.
andy___chris:
So even though you did your study in Prague, you could complete your VT year back in the UK. Right.
oliver_pierce:
Yes.
andy___chris:
And was that was that was that common for lots of the students? Lots of students go back to their home country.
oliver_pierce:
Yeah, the
andy___chris:
Right.
oliver_pierce:
vast majority went back to their home
andy___chris:
Right.
oliver_pierce:
country.
andy___chris:
Okay.
oliver_pierce:
I was, so there was three English guys on my course and I was the only one to secure a BT place.
andy___chris:
Oh.
oliver_pierce:
But yeah, the vast majority of people went back to sort of where they were from. Couple did stay in Braug to be fair. But yeah, so it all worked out really.
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
I got my fifth rank scheme, Hull, came back for the selection day.
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
And I chose to go to a really nice guy called Chris Challens, who owned a practice in the centre of Hull, always be sort of indebted to Chris. He taught me an awful lot. The tuition over in Prague, it had some really good elements and it had some really bad elements as well. So I walked out of university and I could section teeth. I’d done one amalgam and I’d never done a root canal from start to finish. And so, it took me a bit longer to become registered with the GDC just because of some of the delays with the check side of things.
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
So I kind of came to Chris in the September and he took me under his wing, he taught me an awful lot. I’ll always be indebted to him.
andy___chris:
Right, okay. And
oliver_pierce:
I
andy___chris:
I
oliver_pierce:
think
andy___chris:
guess that’s one of the risks, isn’t it, of studying overseas, that I guess our program over here is designed for UK dentistry. Whereas it may be that actually it’s a great experience. And within the Czech Republic, it might meet the needs of that patient base. But if it doesn’t translate to here, it’s great that you got a mentor in some of the, you know, we’re not big on dental puns, but it filled the gaps, didn’t
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
it? The bits that you hadn’t kind of finessed at dental school,
oliver_pierce:
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think it’s really important that if anybody is gonna take the abroad path that you do when you come out of that, that you are in a practice that can fully, fully, fully support you.
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
Because if I’d have been let loose on UDAs and all the rest of it without somebody to hold my hand at times,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
I’d have been lost, completely lost.
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
So that was a really good experience. um learned an awful lot um and then it was coming towards the end of my VT year and I was sort of thinking about what what what do I do now and I really enjoyed the practice that I was in I felt for me and my my learning it would be best for me to to stay in that practice and continue to sort of learn from Chris and I remember very vividly um my my mum sat me down one night and basically said You’re coming back to the practice. One of the associates is leaving. You’ve come into work for us and there was No two ways about it really It was you are
andy___chris:
No
oliver_pierce:
coming
andy___chris:
choice.
oliver_pierce:
back. Yeah, no choice. You’re coming and she had an associate a lovely associate They worked with her for a long time and she was pregnant with her second child and she’d said I’m going back to Lithuania
andy___chris:
Bye.
oliver_pierce:
Raise my child so it was
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
pretty open and shut and you’re coming
andy___chris:
How was that working as a family? Obviously, we go back to those dinner table conversations, it was kind of all the chat. But on a day-to-day basis, and all being kind of qualified clinicians now, what was that like? Was it easy and relaxed? Was it quite tense at times?
oliver_pierce:
I think it was more tense than relaxed,
andy___chris:
Voilà.
oliver_pierce:
I would say. Yeah, so it’s a bit of a sort of a unique setup really. So there was, my mum has sort of practised her owner. There was
andy___chris:
Yep.
oliver_pierce:
my older brother as the practise manager. Myself as associate dentist.
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
My elder brother’s wife was an associate working there. And there was my younger
andy___chris:
Oh, it’s
oliver_pierce:
brother.
andy___chris:
a proper family affair, isn’t it? Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
Yeah, I think if we’d been honest, I think it was a bit too much you know, no matter, I was living at home at this point, you know, I was 25 and living
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
at home
andy___chris:
Bye.
oliver_pierce:
with all of that and it was too much if we’re being honest.
andy___chris:
Yeah, it probably
oliver_pierce:
It
andy___chris:
felt
oliver_pierce:
was,
andy___chris:
like your world was quite small.
oliver_pierce:
yeah, my
andy___chris:
And
oliver_pierce:
world
andy___chris:
a bit
oliver_pierce:
was
andy___chris:
like the Pierce mafia. Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
sort of, yeah, it was really small, it was too small and I think you did get better when I moved out and bought my first house but nevertheless, you know, your mum is your boss and your brother is kind of your almost your line manager as such, it’s just it was too much and I think combination of that and the constant battles to get associates, I mean we had very stable associates but obviously you know here in 2023 we know about the the retention
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
recruitment retention crisis in places like Hull this has been a problem for 10 15 years
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
getting it’s good quality associates getting good team members. Obviously it’s exacerbated now and it’s worse and it’s
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
awful to see the entire profession struggling. But in whole we’re no strangers to this rodeo, we’re used to it. And we eventually decided, I remember very vividly one Friday afternoon and we’d had another associate that said I’m off, I’ve been off of this, I’m just as a family decided that the time had come for us to step back from practice ownership. We approached Broker and the broker said this won’t go to the open market and contacted three dental body corporates who had a little bit of haggling and one of them made us an offer that we chose to accept.
andy___chris:
Right, and that was towards the end of 2016, was
oliver_pierce:
Yes,
andy___chris:
it?
oliver_pierce:
so
andy___chris:
Right,
oliver_pierce:
it finally…
andy___chris:
so you worked as a family together for a number of years. It was kind of a three or four year process in the run up to this.
oliver_pierce:
Yeah, so we, that finally went through in October 2016 and then I think it’s fair to say the wheels very firmly came off. If I’m being honest, I think we underestimated how difficult it would be to let go
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
and even though I was, you know, still sort of an associate for argument’s sake, dad’s practice. This
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
was their life’s work. 65,000 UDAs, 4,000 UOAs, 10 surgeries.
andy___chris:
be place.
oliver_pierce:
It was a monster.
andy___chris:
Lots of delivery. Yeah, it’s funny. We talked to lots of people about this very point you’ll see in another life. We’ve only been sell dental practices as you know, and we say to people trying to prepare yourself emotionally for no longer owning your business. When you say people nod and it’s like, no, no, you really need to understand this is no longer going to be yours. You know, once the money changes hands and you pass the keys over, you’re no longer in charge and what that owner now does with it in terms of their the coffee or the radio station or whatever it might be, that’s for them to do. It’s no longer yours. And I think quite a lot of people do find that that kind of emotional separation. I think the team find it hard, don’t they? It’s the same people, but different owners. And it’s like, well, hang on a minute, who do I go to?
oliver_pierce:
There was an awful lot of friction and I can reflect on it now and think I certainly didn’t carry myself in glory with it. I think I was massively unprepared for accepting
andy___chris:
Mm.
oliver_pierce:
that by joining a corporate, they were going to put their corporate branding on it, they were going to put their corporate procedures, their policies
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
in place, the uniforms were going to change, you know, and sort of you can’t have your cake and eat it. you can argue it’s either way, do you go with the gung ho approach and just
andy___chris:
Mm.
oliver_pierce:
on day one, change the paint, change the uniforms, change the logo or do you do it subtly and slowly. I decided very quickly that if I was ever going to take a practice over, I would not have done it as fast as they did, but it also made me realise just how much I needed to not immediately, but knowing that at some point I was always going to struggle working for somebody else and I needed to have that autonomy and the ability to have things.
andy___chris:
So it was a learning process. Whilst it was hard and it was challenging,
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
you still took a lot from it. There’s always a push and a pull, isn’t it? Yeah, it kind of put you on a path to move forward. I mean, we’ll get to the practice you own in a second because you bought that practice towards the end of 2020, which is an interesting timeframe, given what was happening with COVID and everything. So from setting the practice and to that point, did you stay on working as an associate? Did you go and work somewhere else as an associate? looking like.
oliver_pierce:
So I stayed for about 15 months.
andy___chris:
Right.
oliver_pierce:
I’d handed my notice in twice. And then on the third time I decided, do you know, I remember very vividly one night, it was the first night of the ashes down in Brisbane and I just couldn’t sleep. I was shaking and I just thought, this isn’t right.
andy___chris:
Well.
oliver_pierce:
This is not right. feel this way.
andy___chris:
No.
oliver_pierce:
I had about two hours sleep, I marched into work, I printed it off and I just said I’m done, I’m out, I can’t work like this, it’s not good for me. We lost 27 nurses and receptionists in an 18 month period and I was the eighth clinician to leave
andy___chris:
Bye. But for you, this must have been quite hard as what was your family practice. So there’s a big pressure, especially if there’s a deferred element based on a performance. You’ve got that hanging over you, haven’t you, that you don’t want to let your mum down. But there’s so much tied up in it. There’s the deferred consideration, there’s the family connection, there’s emotional stuff. It’s a real rollercoaster.
oliver_pierce:
It is, and these are all things that I know that in 25 years I’m gonna have to consider because I do think, I think it was the best thing for our family was to join the corporate. But yeah, it did put us through the mill, that process. And as you say, when you’ve got deferred considerations, I know that that 18 months was the longest 18 months
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
of my life. I know that that all happened while my youngest was, she was four months old when that took over. And to be honest, it was all a bit of a blur looking
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
back. I was so preoccupied with work, with what was going on with that. So yeah, it’s a really difficult decision for principals when they’re looking for their exit strategy
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
And I underestimated those 18 months and that took a huge toll on me and it was really
andy___chris:
Mm.
oliver_pierce:
difficult. Some principles are tied into three years, four years,
andy___chris:
Yeah,
oliver_pierce:
five years
andy___chris:
definitely.
oliver_pierce:
with increased deferred considerations and that’s really tough.
andy___chris:
Hmm with minimal control. Yeah. Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
So Jumping forward on the 2nd of November 2020 you then proud you took over as a principal of of sudden dental practice Which
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
is a a more uplifting part to
oliver_pierce:
Yeah. I mean, it was quite a drawn out process to be honest. So I obviously, like, like most people in the look of practice do, you register with every, every
andy___chris:
you
oliver_pierce:
broker, you contact all the different, all the different brokers out there and you get yourself signed up to newsletters
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
and prospectus and stuff. And actually, the practice that I finally bought, with the corporate. But it was within my geographical, you know, non-compete clause
andy___chris:
Right, the restricted
oliver_pierce:
and
andy___chris:
area, yeah, yeah.
oliver_pierce:
given how things were going I just was not prepared to take a risk and then it sold subjects contracts and again what will be will be. And then it came back on the market and I came in November 2019 and viewed it and I made to what we said I made in two offers and one based on a handshake here’s what here’s you can go and another one based on I want you to stay for a year as a transition year so even though I had obviously seen how difficult it was for for people when they when they sell I also knew that I didn’t think it was have somebody there to even just to do some of the delivery of the UDAs
andy___chris:
Hmm
oliver_pierce:
just to sort of be that sort of transition phase and he agreed to stay for a year. I sourced finance through one of the high street banks and then obviously in March 2020 the world stopped turning and within about three or four days my the said, nope, we’re not lending you. We’re not lending you anymore. So I had this practice that I’d started working in to sort of get my feet under the table, to get the lay of the land. The whole team knew that I was looking to take the practice over, but no finance in place. So again, very much indebted to a gentleman by the name of Malcolm Swan, who works for Lloyds.
andy___chris:
Good guy, Malcolm. Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
really really good guy, saw a lot of me on Zoom through
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
COVID and managed to agree to some finance and get the deal back on the road. So all done conveyancy through FTA law and the guys up in Leeds, Louisa in particular was fantastic in doing all the due diligence and going through everything over the line on the 2nd of November 2020. Here’s your keys, off you go.
andy___chris:
So obviously because of lockdown, lockdown was the 23rd of March, 2020 to the
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
8th of June, 2020. So you’ve got this window where you weren’t legally allowed to operate other than kind of emergency care. And then you took over in November. So what was those first few months like? Because I mean, in some ways, it’s not all bad news because, you know, I know you’re in the family practice, but this is your practice, you’re the principal.
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
done it before so you’ve got no reference point so you just started as a principal coming out the back of lockdown but what were those first few months like? She also
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
didn’t have to do a UDA so I wonder how that sort of works as well.
oliver_pierce:
I think that’s the biggest point, Chris, to be fair. That was the biggest advantage for me. I mean, the practice that I bought was 98% NHS.
andy___chris:
Right,
oliver_pierce:
Two contracts.
andy___chris:
OK. It gave you some breathing space in a weird way, didn’t it? Yeah, a soft
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
landing. I know it’s still a bit crappy because it was
oliver_pierce:
No.
andy___chris:
after Covid and the reality of it is we just kept popping in and out of lockdowns, didn’t we, really? Yeah. It’s like, when’s the next one going to be?
oliver_pierce:
I think it worked really well actually for me. I had a period where ultimately the UDA delivery wasn’t a big concern. So if you think about KPIs and that sort
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
of stuff, that one was just completely not
andy___chris:
Mm.
oliver_pierce:
an issue. We knew that the targets as such were quite minimal, non-restrictive and very easy to hit and that enabled me to do some of the things around the practice that I wanted to do to When I bought the practice it had 7,000 paper record cards in reception. You know, it needed a refurb, it needed paint, it needed
andy___chris:
Mm.
oliver_pierce:
a bit of a bit of a ripping out in places. Nothing overheat, nothing overhauling but little things that you
andy___chris:
भी अगर भी लगाँ तो वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो आप वो
oliver_pierce:
can tell it’s the same building but actually make a real difference when you walk
andy___chris:
Yep.
oliver_pierce:
in. Just to you know put my stamp on it but again I saw I could see that every week he’d come in, he was a little bit, almost like a dagger to his heart,
andy___chris:
Mm-hmm.
oliver_pierce:
seeing what I’d done with the reception, seeing what I’d done with the waiting
andy___chris:
It’s interesting
oliver_pierce:
room.
andy___chris:
isn’t it? But I also imagine there probably was a sensitivity on your part because you’ve been on the
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
other end of that when you talk through that process of your mother setting the practice at a corporate and how that felt for you. So whilst you were making changes, I would imagine there was also part of you that understood how that might feel for
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
the printer. Was he an oldie? Was he much older?
oliver_pierce:
Yeah, so he was in his late fifties and
andy___chris:
Oh,
oliver_pierce:
he’s…
andy___chris:
that’s quite old. It is quite old. Yeah, Chrissy’s just turned 60. So I’m still very
oliver_pierce:
You don’t
andy___chris:
early 50s.
oliver_pierce:
look at me.
andy___chris:
Very early 50s. I can say that’s pretty old. Good man. I like Oliver. He’s a lovely bloke. Yeah. Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
He had enough, he’s done 20 years of smashing out UDAs,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
running between two surgeries, seeing 70, 80 people a day. He’d had enough. I think it was that sort of balance between what I thought would work best for me, which
andy___chris:
Mm-hmm.
oliver_pierce:
was to not be clogged up just in surgery, but also to enable
andy___chris:
Mmm. Mmm.
oliver_pierce:
almost a bit of counsel as well because I would involve him in some of, not involve him as such, but I would ask his opinion on some of the
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
things that I was considering
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
weighing up. And we decided at the end of March, so five months after taking over, I had an associate, my associate was leaving, she was going fully private. I’d managed to find a lovely dentist that works for me now and I had a therapist coming on board and it just seemed like the right time to sort of
andy___chris:
Our company.
oliver_pierce:
Our company
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
and on good terms we shook hands we We agreed Because we had a really my new I mean like 3% deferred element based on some bits and bobs And we agreed on a figure for that and we shook hands and And I’ve not seen him since I think I’ve had two messages since he’s off on his ride on lawn mower
andy___chris:
Good for him.
oliver_pierce:
living his life. Yeah good for him absolutely and it works it works
andy___chris:
And sometimes it’s nice to cut things just before it starts to get a little bit awkward. To everyone can leave with a smile on their face, a good feeling, then try and kind of milk it for that last one or two percent.
oliver_pierce:
Yeah, I think we were definitely there. I
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
think I felt happier with sort of my understanding of the building and the practice and the team. And I could see that with every Thursday that he came in, there was a little bit less of his heart in it. And above all else, when you are obviously managing, you’ve
andy___chris:
Mm-hmm.
oliver_pierce:
got to spot those signs and you’re better sometimes just to shake hands and say, thank you very much. Do you
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
want to call it a day?
andy___chris:
Yeah. Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
That works well really.
andy___chris:
You’ve done a lot’s happened to you in your dental career so far from an interesting qualification period, your VT, getting in the family business, selling that business, buying your own practice. How would you kind of bookend it at the moment in terms of your best and worst days in business? Because a lot’s gone on, a lot’s happened. What would you say? And you really just started? Well, yeah, that’s the thing. You’re a relatively new practice owner, but if we kind of drew a line there, what’s been starting business so far.
oliver_pierce:
I think best days harder to answer. My worst days is really, really easy. Really, really vivid for me. I put some anesthetic in a patient. I’d numbed her up last October. And I came down and I just checked my emails and I had an email from the GDC a case worker saying can you confirm your address we’ve got something to post to you and I looked down and it said fitness to practice case worker I thought what
andy___chris:
Oh
oliver_pierce:
on
andy___chris:
geez.
oliver_pierce:
earth is this so I rang them and she said oh can you confirm your address and we’ll post it it might take two weeks I said
andy___chris:
No.
oliver_pierce:
what’s this about she said you’ve got a fitness to practice complaint against you I said you can’t leave me waiting two weeks
andy___chris:
For two weeks,
oliver_pierce:
just
andy___chris:
eh?
oliver_pierce:
you just can’t leave me waiting be right. So went round the house, did a few identity checks and she said I’ll email it to you right away. So three hours later she emails through this fitness to practice allegation. In May of last year I fitted a denture to a lady on the Thursday. Fitted the denture at half past 12 on the Thursday. Eight o’clock on the Friday morning the lady ran, I booked a review, said wear the denture a I’ll see how you’re getting on in a couple of weeks. Eight o’clock Friday morning, the lady rang and she wanted to speak to me. She was unhappy with the denture. So, busy in surgery, rang about a couple of hours later. 40 minutes, I was on the phone to the lady. Going back and forth and she said, you weren’t happy with it. I said, we’ve tried this denture three times. I feel I’ve done the best I can. You know, I’ve given it my all and you’ve only had it for eight
andy___chris:
Thank you.
oliver_pierce:
hours. I want you to wear it a bit more and I’ll see you in a couple of weeks, see how you’re getting on. I said, look, gotta wear it, please wear it. She said, my friends and family have told me, I look absolutely ridiculous. I said, I’m really sorry that you’ve had that feedback. You know, you’ve only had 18 hours, it’s gonna feel
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
different, wear it, I’ll see you a week on Thursday, see how you’re getting on. She canceled the review with me, and I just didn’t really think anything more of it. Four days later, she wrote a handwritten letter to the General Dental Council, me of being unfit for practice because she was unhappy with the denture that I’ve made. It took the GDC from May to October to bring that to me
andy___chris:
well.
oliver_pierce:
and then I obviously panicked, absolutely blind panic. I printed it all off and I mean everything, you mean everything, everything On the 2nd of December it was reviewed by somebody at the GDC who signed off that there was no case to answer, not on fit to practice, all absolutely fine. And it took the GDC till the middle of February to get that report across to me.
andy___chris:
Oh mein Gott, flip den Händen.
oliver_pierce:
So I suppose in a way if you say to me what’s your best day in business, it’s probably the day I found out that I was allowed to keep working as a dentist.
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
in that nine month process is a, that doesn’t serve anybody, that doesn’t help anybody. The delays, the five months between the patient reporting and allegation to actually being assessed is
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
ridiculous. The fact that that got to the GDC
andy___chris:
Yeah,
oliver_pierce:
is
andy___chris:
yeah,
oliver_pierce:
ridiculous.
andy___chris:
yeah.
oliver_pierce:
I still sort of scratch my head and think, who does this process actually serve?
andy___chris:
Yeah, it is nonsense because there should be an interim before it gets
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
to the GC. And I remember wasn’t there the newspaper advert a couple of years ago where basically the GDC paid for these adverts that effectively were saying, are you unhappy with your dentist?
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
If so, get in contact with him. You sort of think, isn’t the GDC not we should be political there to obviously protect the patient but support the dentist? I mean, you
oliver_pierce:
Absolutely.
andy___chris:
know, it
oliver_pierce:
Absolutely.
andy___chris:
should be supported. You know, you look at the BMA, you know,
oliver_pierce:
I don’t, I mean that process just needs urgent, urgent reform. I
andy___chris:
Mm-hmm.
oliver_pierce:
mean, I think from top to bottom with it really, I mean, obviously there’s been so much made about recruitment and retention crisis.
andy___chris:
अँ
oliver_pierce:
And we’ve got hundreds and thousands of dentists trying to register with the GDC, but it’s just overly complicated, drawn out delays.
andy___chris:
Mm.
oliver_pierce:
And you have to question who is this serving at the moment?
andy___chris:
Mmm.
oliver_pierce:
But the worst thing about that is that I was one of only 11% that get thrown out at that stage. feel
andy___chris:
Wow.
oliver_pierce:
that that made me you know because that’s your livelihood it’s not only your
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
livelihood it’s your mortgage it’s everything
andy___chris:
But I think no wonder. Sorry, Andy, I was going to say, it’s no wonder, isn’t it, that when we hear anecdotally people saying practice owners or old associates, older associates saying the new guys coming out of dental school just aren’t very good, quick, but they’re really good at writing notes. You know, they call it the defensive dentistry, isn’t it, to protect themselves from issues that you have. Mae’n gwybod i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r bwysig i’r b
oliver_pierce:
Yeah. I think something’s gone wrong there because that all takes away from patient care, doesn’t it?
andy___chris:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
oliver_pierce:
And we’ve all gone into dentistry to help patients. But
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
what point does that GDC process help patients? I’m not sure.
andy___chris:
I think the shame of it is as you tell the story is the time it takes from that what would have been a two week delay for the letter but moved on to becoming an email that that stress of having that hanging over you while you’re waiting for it to get there that that’s unacceptable and that has to be streamlined and expedited
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
so we don’t have dentists having that build up of stress but
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
also it obviously took its toll on you because you were able and the dates and the times of what happened. It’s a massive part of your life because like
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
you say effectively, it could be good. The thing is it could be career ending.
oliver_pierce:
Yep.
andy___chris:
Depending on what the outcome is, it could be career ending. So when you’ve got a practice and a team and family and bills and commitments, to have that hanging over you for month after month after month is completely unfair.
oliver_pierce:
Yeah, I do hope that there will be some reforms and I do hope that nobody has to go through something for something
andy___chris:
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
so spurious as that. I sort of tell myself that if you see 50, 60 people a day, somebody’s not probably gonna like you very much, but does that mean that they should have the ability to just absolutely spin
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
your life upside down like that? I don’t know.
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
So,
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
no.
andy___chris:
Oh, thank you for sharing that because I think for lots of people that that will be a really interesting listen because there’s lots of kind of stories of, you know, the GDC and fitness practice, but actually to hear a firsthand account of what it was like and how it affected you. And then, you know, it’s fabulous there as a positive outcome because it sounds like it was absolutely a spurious claim.
oliver_pierce:
I mean, just as a sort of parting comment on that, that does loop into the direction that I’m taking my practice.
andy___chris:
Hmm. Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
If I’m leaving myself open to complaints by 50, 60 people a day, you have to question the future of your practice and
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
it does link into why we are reducing our NHS commitment.
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
I would rather see 15, 20 people a day with the service,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
happy with the product or whatever you, than seeing 50 people a day and worrying thinking I’ve got three people waiting I need to speed this conversation up.
andy___chris:
But that’s a real disconnect between, you know,
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
it appears in the House of Commons where there’s constant debates about access to dentistry and how do we improve access. And then on the other side, we’re not getting the profession being supported and protected in the way they should be. So
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
the boots on the ground are saying, well, actually, I’m running my own independent business and I need to do a risk assessment. And by seeing fewer patients where I can control that environment better than
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
churning out lots of dentistry, that’s a safe environment to work in. you end up with this disconnect. Well, how do you kind of round that circle?
oliver_pierce:
Well, you don’t and I think that’s why we are here in 2023
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
going round in circles and there’s fewer and fewer people in that circle willing to do work in those
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
circumstances, isn’t it?
andy___chris:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, so just going back to your your your practice, you’ve now been in there as a principle for a while. What would you say are the myths of owning a dental practice? We see lots of stuff on, you know, stressful, man. Yeah, we see lots of stuff on social media and everybody there seems to be kind of this almost this movement that kind of says, you know, you’re an associate and at some point you’ve never really made it until you I think just being a dentist is an incredible thing to be in your own right. But what are the myths that people think that owning a practice, all the good stuff, is real? Let’s just for more time and more money. Yeah. Let’s challenge those ones.
oliver_pierce:
I think they’re all absolutely wrong.
andy___chris:
There we go.
oliver_pierce:
I know I’m meant to be a fly in the flag for young associates going to become principals, but I’m struggling to give no. I think I’ve heard you say numerous times, both of you, about how when you become principal, you are the finance manager, the HR manager,
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
and actually you’re doing these things in
andy___chris:
Yes, right.
oliver_pierce:
I mean, I spend my morning commute, my lunch times, racking my brains, thinking about the next steps, the next things to do with the practice. You are always worrying about something, whether that’s staffing, whether that’s equipment, whether that’s, I’m currently investigating, extending the practice, whether it’s negotiating with area teams, which I’ve been doing for 10 months and counting. And I look back to those days of being an associate where you might worry about that denture that you fitted.
andy___chris:
Thank you. Bye.
oliver_pierce:
You might worry that Mrs Smith’s a bit sore after that extraction, but actually you got over it by quarter past five.
andy___chris:
I say you
oliver_pierce:
Whereas,
andy___chris:
went home at five, yeah.
oliver_pierce:
yeah, whereas this is checking your emails of an evening, this is coming in on weekend
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
to meet contractors.
andy___chris:
You’ve obviously
oliver_pierce:
I wouldn’t change it.
andy___chris:
still got a young family, Oliver. Are you able to switch off? Are you able to kind of have that delineation where there are periods where you aren’t working? And I don’t mean physically, I mean mentally. Is it always ticking away in the background?
oliver_pierce:
Yeah, I think it is and if I’m honest, I think I thought I would have been able to switch off
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
more and I would have had more of a work-life balance by this stage in my principal journey.
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
I’m coming up to two and a half years now and I think I thought, always thought, two years will be, first couple of years will be tricky, they’ll be hard but then
andy___chris:
I’ll
oliver_pierce:
it’ll
andy___chris:
get
oliver_pierce:
be,
andy___chris:
it sorted
oliver_pierce:
yeah,
andy___chris:
by
oliver_pierce:
get
andy___chris:
then.
oliver_pierce:
it sorted. It’ll all run itself like clockwork
andy___chris:
Yeah, I feel.
oliver_pierce:
and in reality, one off on sick next week and it doesn’t matter. I know obviously we talk about having good managers in place and delegating, but ultimately, when it’s your business, when it’s your bank loan, when it’s your mortgage on the line,
andy___chris:
या या या या
oliver_pierce:
it’s on your shoulders. Whether you might not make the day-to-day decision on how it works or what goes through, it’s on your head.
andy___chris:
and
oliver_pierce:
And I think, yeah, the myth, tough couple of years and then it’s all fine and done do from there
andy___chris:
Ah,
oliver_pierce:
because
andy___chris:
yeah.
oliver_pierce:
uh
andy___chris:
But
oliver_pierce:
well
andy___chris:
you’re still
oliver_pierce:
it’s definitely
andy___chris:
smiling
oliver_pierce:
not.
andy___chris:
and to me, you genuinely look like you’re enjoying it. It doesn’t sound easy, but it does sound like you’re enjoying it. And I think sometimes things are hard as long as we’re taking joy from it and it’s delivering. We don’t mind doing it. Yeah, definitely.
oliver_pierce:
I think one thing that I maybe wish I knew a little bit more about is sort of the excuse for the podcast, but the business of dentistry and the politics of dentistry.
andy___chris:
Well, yeah.
oliver_pierce:
Do you like that one?
andy___chris:
I’ll do it, thank you very much. You’re lovely.
oliver_pierce:
Because I thought I knew a lot about
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
it. I thought I understood a lot about it, but actually even in terms of like how NHS pay statements work and schedules work and all a bit superannuation. I’ve learned so much from those just by being the one that has to know about them. And likewise,
andy___chris:
I suppose that’s a real interesting one, I never really thought about it, but as an associate you never see that. No.
oliver_pierce:
No.
andy___chris:
Something like, you know, this is how many UDAs you’ve done.
oliver_pierce:
Yeah, you have no idea that actually some of that has been taken in patient charge revenue, some of
andy___chris:
Yeah,
oliver_pierce:
it’s not,
andy___chris:
interesting.
oliver_pierce:
how that works, how that impacts what you’re getting paid on the first of the month for the next month. You just completely…
andy___chris:
Yeah. But I think that’s a difference between the kind of the theory and the practical application. You know, you can’t learn to swim standing on your jewellery swimming pool, just swinging
oliver_pierce:
No.
andy___chris:
your arms around. You’ve got to get wet. And I think the difference is when it’s your business, you have to understand it. Just having a basic idea of what it is and
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
living it and breathing it on a day to day basis are two completely different things.
oliver_pierce:
Yeah, I’d agree. Even down to my bank repayments and the fact that the chunk of capital repayment is classed as income for you. So you know, you might have them, I don’t know, the business might make a hundred, you might draw £100,000 out of the business, but if you’ve been paying £2,000 a month to your bank in the interest of HMRC, that’s income. So we’re getting things like that that I just I thought I understood but I didn’t and then that’s before you get into the politics of dentistry and I think the biggest sort of struggles that I’ve been having I’ve been really negotiating with with the area teams
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
trying to get some traction and sort of you scratch my back I’ll scratch your back and and that that just understanding how our commissioners work and the people that
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
are responsible for NHS dentistry that in itself is different world but I had no idea about it.
andy___chris:
I think fortunately in dentistry there are some great specialist support providers out there
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
and there’s a phrase isn’t there learn from your mistakes I think it’s a crap phrase I think you should learn from other people’s mistakes and I think if there’s
oliver_pierce:
Thank
andy___chris:
people
oliver_pierce:
you.
andy___chris:
that have trodden the path before you You know whether they’re accountants or lawyers or brokers or whoever if they have knowledge in this area You should lean on those people because
oliver_pierce:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
in the early days when you’re trying to find out so much stuff and you also Developing your own personal leadership skills in terms of managing a team that kind of stress away from you in terms of understanding the numbers. We might have all used those people because then it enables us to focus on the stuff where we really make an impact which is continuing to deliver your clinical dentistry, you know, making sure that the culture in your team is positive. Because if you end up going down dark alleys and trying to work on numbers and that’s not your forte but somebody else can do it, you know, it’s drawing on those people that have got those specialist skills.
oliver_pierce:
I find it absolutely crazy that there are people out there who purchase practices without a dental specialist lawyer.
andy___chris:
Mm-hmm. It’s mad
oliver_pierce:
There are practices out there that don’t have dental specialist accountants.
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
That just is absolutely crackers. I mean I use a Nasdaal accountant, I value their insight into how the clawback and stuff like that.
andy___chris:
Hmm.
oliver_pierce:
You really do need to rely on
andy___chris:
complicated business.
oliver_pierce:
tears.
andy___chris:
Accident waiting to happen I think if you don’t use the right advice. Yeah
oliver_pierce:
but an enjoyable one nevertheless.
andy___chris:
Yeah, true. Your story is brilliant. Yeah, thank you. I think that so much has happened over a relatively short period of time. Yeah, not very long, is it? No, no. And it’s like I say, it’s fascinating. But people’s life story has always surprised me. You know, people think, well, I’ve got nothing to say. And when you start digging into it, everyone’s got an amazing back story that kind of explains why they are where they are today. We always finish up in the same way. We always ask our guests the same two questions, The first one we have is if you could be the flana wall in a situation somewhere. Where would you be and what would that situation look like?
oliver_pierce:
So for my sins outside of being a husband and a father and a practice owner, I’m also a very avid village cricketer. Make up for my lack of skill with enthusiasm and exuberance. And if you were to say if you could be the fly on the wall in any situation, I would um provided his hero heroics at headingle because that provided me with you know you talk about not being able to take your eyes off something you could not take your eyes off that game of cricket um and i probably would want to be a fly on i’m going to go with jack leach’s shoulder as he walked down the steps at headingle to 30 odd thousand drunk Yorkshiremen um to meet up with ben stokes in the middle um and find out those conversations what they said to each other because it’s just a bit of a keep going.
andy___chris:
Ha ha ha
oliver_pierce:
Whereas I imagine there was probably some slightly more inspirational words and obviously just to see what they sort of said to each other when they got England over the line.
andy___chris:
Yeah, well,
oliver_pierce:
So yeah, I’d go with Ben Stokes at Headingley to see what they said to each other.
andy___chris:
I haven’t had that one before. No, no, no, no. And I don’t know who it’s gonna be if there’s gonna be a connection here or we’re going down a different path. But if you could meet anybody, who would you like to meet given the opportunity? Alive or dead,
oliver_pierce:
So
andy___chris:
we hear something.
oliver_pierce:
staying on the same subject, I’d love to have met Shane Worm, the late
andy___chris:
Right.
oliver_pierce:
great Australian
andy___chris:
Yeah.
oliver_pierce:
leg spinner.
andy___chris:
Not
oliver_pierce:
I
andy___chris:
in
oliver_pierce:
think,
andy___chris:
a ball.
oliver_pierce:
yeah,
andy___chris:
No.
oliver_pierce:
yeah, in a
andy___chris:
No.
oliver_pierce:
bar, ideally,
andy___chris:
No.
oliver_pierce:
in a bar. Although based on the stories about him, I don’t think it necessarily needed to be in a bar, I think just absolutely
andy___chris:
Just
oliver_pierce:
anywhere.
andy___chris:
anywhere.
oliver_pierce:
I think what he did for the game of cricket, he made it exciting, he was a character, he an interesting lifestyle outside of the sport
andy___chris:
Ac yna’r gweithio’r gweithio’r gweithio.
oliver_pierce:
and he took away
andy___chris:
Mae’n gweithio.
oliver_pierce:
the reputation of cricket being boring. I’d
andy___chris:
Hmm, that’s true.
oliver_pierce:
love to have met Shane Warn in a bar but if not absolutely anyway I’m sure
andy___chris:
just
oliver_pierce:
I’d bring
andy___chris:
anywhere.
oliver_pierce:
the beans. So
andy___chris:
Yeah, he was definitely a big character. I was
oliver_pierce:
Shane Warn for making the video.
andy___chris:
brilliant. All of that. It’s been an absolute joy. It’s been it’s been great. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your honesty and your kind. I think the stories you
oliver_pierce:
Thank
andy___chris:
told
oliver_pierce:
you.
andy___chris:
are going to really help people. And like I said, I think it’s real kind of, you know, on the ground opinion of buying a practice, selling a practice, your fitness practice side of things. I think everything I think it’s got so many elements that are really relevant about bio practice or just generally within dentistry. So we really appreciate your time today. So are you in clinic today?
oliver_pierce:
I am, yeah. I am,
andy___chris:
Excellent,
oliver_pierce:
yeah. Busy,
andy___chris:
lovely.
oliver_pierce:
busy. A couple of people waiting, so thank you very
andy___chris:
Excellent.
oliver_pierce:
much for your time, gents.
andy___chris:
Now, I’m not talking too very good talking to you. Thanks Oliver.
oliver_pierce:
Thank
andy___chris:
Cheers
oliver_pierce:
you.
andy___chris:
Oliver.
oliver_pierce:
Cheers
andy___chris:
Keep
oliver_pierce:
guys.
andy___chris:
well.
