Dentology Podcast with Reena Wadia

Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Reena Wadia

Episode Release Date – Monday 16 December 2024

Andy & Chris (00:00.881)
Monday morning, seven o’clock is my favorite time of the week. I mean, the pajamas. No, no, no, no, no, no. It’s podcast time. And today we have a legend of dentistry. A legend. Don’t you love a legend? I’m not building too much for this guest, but we have the founder of RW Perrier, Harley Street. Should do a drum roll or is it a bit too much,

REENA (00:05.379)
Thank

REENA (00:22.69)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (00:24.279)
We could do a There’s a lot to get there. is. She is also the founder of Perio school, the leading global teaching academy for periodontal courses. a product range by Dr. Rina, lip balm, tongue scrapers and breath sprays. And the author of the Perio handbook, which we’re gonna have a talk about today. And finally, I mean, if that wasn’t enough, the host of the podcast life and smile, we have Dr. Rina Wadia with us. Hello Rina.

REENA (00:40.046)
you

REENA (00:52.93)
Thank you so much. It’s great to be here. Thanks for the invite.

Andy & Chris (00:55.039)
You’ve got a lot going on. So much in one so young.

REENA (00:59.502)
I keep myself out of mischief, definitely.

Andy & Chris (01:01.413)
Yeah, flip, innit? Mind you, is that thing, isn’t there? There’s that phrase, if you want something done, ask a busy person. Yeah, definitely. And I think sometimes if you have lots going on, you have that ability to take on something extra.

REENA (01:14.51)
100%. I think it is, I mean, I love being busy. I get bored very easily. So I’m always working on my next project. There’s always something on the line, but I think it just makes it more enjoyable. but yeah, you’re right. The more you do, the more then you feel like you want to take on.

Andy & Chris (01:22.877)
Wow.

Andy & Chris (01:30.226)
Yeah, and juggling a family as well.

REENA (01:33.134)
And juggling family, yes, Rhea is now one, and she’s already a cheeky madam, so yeah, that’s another job in itself.

Andy & Chris (01:35.998)
Wow.

Hahaha

We always start asking about your childhood, your youth upbringing, but before we get to that, just sticking with the busyness side of things, you’re also a very successful entrepreneur. What would you say is the key skill that you need to be a successful entrepreneur? And I love the fact that you’ve got so much going on and it’s quite diverse as well. You’ve got products, you’ve got an academy, you’ve got a dental practice.

REENA (01:51.15)
Sure.

REENA (02:08.312)
I would say there’s quite a few skills, but if I had to hone it down to one or two, the first one I would definitely say is being organized. Because when you want to get something done or launch a business and allow it to progress, I always find you only get stuff done if you’re organized. So you being organized and then having a team who are organized around you as well, I think is critical. Because I think I have to say a lot of the things we’ve done so far, it’s thanks to my team that have made it happen and supported me.

Andy & Chris (02:30.387)
Mm-hmm.

REENA (02:38.288)
definitely not one one-man band. So the other thing I’ve found over the years is definitely being open to risk and a lot of things even for example like when we moved to Harley Street it was during the pandemic.

and was a really challenging time but we sort of pushed through that and said okay let’s take this risk and see what happens. So think it is about and I’ve done that many times I was just saying yes to taking it’s calculated risks but they are risks so I would say yeah organization having a great team and being open to risk.

Andy & Chris (03:02.973)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andy & Chris (03:10.047)
Brilliant. So the people. Thank you very much and lovely. Have a nice day. That’s it. That’s all we needed. We call this a sound bite instead of a podcast. So the people that listen to this podcast, it’s a business of dentistry, but they kind of tune in because they’re interested in the people. The polite term is curiosity or it’s just nosiness, but they are interested in the people. So if we rewind back to the beginning, what was your upbringing like? What was your childhood like? Siblings?

REENA (03:13.72)
You

Andy & Chris (03:38.953)
Parents? do they do? Wear? Yeah.

REENA (03:39.214)
Yes, so I grew up in South London and lived with my parents actually all the way up to even including university days. So I was a very much home girl. In terms of my upbringing, was very sort of, I’m very still family orientated. My parents, so British Indian, my parents are, I wouldn’t say they’re traditional Indian actually, they’re fairly modern, but they’ve still got those values in them in terms of hard work, putting your mind to

Andy & Chris (04:07.561)
Mm-hmm.

REENA (04:09.12)
things and especially my dad, always used to, still does I guess, push me and say look, just be the best you can and push through those barriers and break those glass ceilings basically. So a lot of the enthusiasm I have and the foresight in terms of being able to go as far as possible is because of my upbringing.

Andy & Chris (04:28.711)
What did they do? What do they do? Job-wise.

REENA (04:30.484)
Yeah, my dad actually retired now, he used to be an accountant. He does a lot of work with our local temple now, so he’s involved in lot of charity. And my mom works for HMRC, yeah, so special combination.

Andy & Chris (04:38.847)
Right.

That’s an interesting blend isn’t

REENA (04:48.366)
Yeah, I don’t need a in the family. The thing which drew me to Dentistry was actually my local dentist when I was much, much younger. I used to just love the way he used to treat his patients, the relationships he had with his team and how he made you feel essentially. And so I think I was like 12 or something where thought, I think I’ll be a dentist. This looks quite nice. then it’s just something I mean, at that age, how can you decide what you want to do with your life? But it’s something which I just had stuck in my head. Then, of course, I did work experience and everything else.

Andy & Chris (05:11.956)
Yeah.

REENA (05:18.272)
but it’s something I had stuck in my head and I just went for it and loved it. I did. Yeah, I ended up actually working in that practice in my first year. yeah, Manny Vassan, he’s quite well known. He was my dentist and I worked for my first year in that practice literally five minutes down from where I used to live. So that was quite a special kind of 360 moment.

Andy & Chris (05:21.469)
Hmm. And was that did you do work experience in that dental practice as well? brilliant

nice. Yes. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (05:43.399)
Yeah. Did you do work experience anywhere else?

REENA (05:46.76)
so many places. did work experience in like 20 different practices and hospitals and yeah, really in laboratories and everything else. So.

Andy & Chris (05:50.864)
I will.

Andy & Chris (05:55.712)
It’s interesting you say that because I think we were talking to Samir Patel of 11th Ent a while back and he was saying that one of the things that lots of associates do which isn’t necessarily great for them is they don’t move around.

And I noticed the work experience and you weren’t an associate then, but I think by moving around, it gives you a really good flavor for what it actually looks like. Cause if you go just to one practice and it’s terrible, your view is it’s terrible. And if you go to one, it’s amazing. It’s amazing. Whereas if you go to lots of different ones, at least you get a fair blend as to what’s good and bad. think also when you’re young, doesn’t it? I know we had that and we had one guest, he basically, they thought they wanted to do dentistry. It wasn’t medicine, wasn’t quite sure. Went and did max facts in a hospital.

REENA (06:10.382)
Yeah.

REENA (06:26.335)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (06:37.905)
really realised they didn’t want to do Max Max. So then they were like, right, well that’s something I definitely don’t want to do. So then they were able to sort of narrow down what you do want to do.

REENA (06:40.429)
Good

REENA (06:44.025)
Yeah. I definitely think there is value in getting that breadth of experience at the beginning. think longer term, it’s nice actually to stay in places for many, years because that’s how you build your diary and your book. think definitely earlier on in your career to get the experience and exposure and see exactly see what you like, I think, because otherwise you don’t know until you explore. yeah, I can.

Andy & Chris (06:55.421)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andy & Chris (07:04.596)
On that work experience did you reach out and do it yourself?

REENA (07:09.644)
Yeah, I did actually. And it’s a harder nowadays with all the regulations, but I did used to just write letters or go and visit people and say, look, are you happy for me to observe? And it was really nice actually, because when I did ask people, they always said yes. And it is like people actually are out there to help you. You just have to ask. that was, yeah, it was really reassuring. And actually funny because, so I mentioned Manny, obviously I did work there. A few of the people that I observed are now my referrer.

Andy & Chris (07:19.391)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (07:27.677)
Yeah Yeah

REENA (07:39.621)
to this clinic so it’s like you’ve kept those relationships as well.

Andy & Chris (07:43.411)
Wow, wow. It was only the fact I was asking. We quite often say, as Andy was saying, that where you are now is grounded in where you were. And that sort of determination that you’ve got. You started at the age of whenever you started your work experience, you basically wrote loads of letters or rang loads of people. Whereas there’s other people who don’t. Yeah, it makes a big difference. So you qualified from Arts in London.

REENA (08:09.486)
Correct. It is, yeah.

Andy & Chris (08:10.011)
with a prestigious gold medal, congratulations. It might seem a few years ago now, but that’s very impressive. So you were saying about moving around. So when you first qualified as an associate, you did general work as an associate and did you bounce around a bit before you decided that Perio was gonna be your future?

REENA (08:25.326)
Actually I didn’t, so I actually went into Peru pretty quickly. So what I realised is I did my foundation year, I did my, then I went into hospital, I did some hospital experience in oral surgery and restorative. But also just during my undergraduate I knew I wanted to specialise, I knew I wanted to sort of hone in on one thing and do it kind of really really well all day long. It’s something that I found that I always wanted to do. But I actually wanted to specialise in prosthodontics when I was an undergrad and then

Literally in my it’s just in the the SHO year. So a few years on I realized actually probably I don’t want to do that I want to do I want to specialize but want to specialize in perio So perio wasn’t something that I was actually always interested in I actually as an undergraduate didn’t think it worked very well It was boring. I didn’t see the light at the end the tunnel, but it was Really later on I realized actually I really love this specialty So after what happened was with my specialist after with my SHO job I actually went pretty soon after into my specialist training, but the thing is I

Andy & Chris (09:11.295)
You

REENA (09:25.098)
I did it part-time. So I was also working in other practices. I worked in Woodford. I had an associate job in Hartley Street. So I worked in other practices and I studied at the same time, which I found super beneficial because I was then able to apply as I was learning. A lot of the other specialty programs that are out there, most of them actually are full-time programs. So you have to literally just be a student and then that’s it. Whereas where I was at at King’s, I did my undergrad at Bart’s, but then I did my special training at Guy’s King’s.

Andy & Chris (09:35.359)
Well.

Andy & Chris (09:46.335)
Mmm. Mmm.

REENA (09:55.205)
we were allowed to do that part-time as well, which was absolutely brilliant.

Andy & Chris (09:59.593)
Tell you what, wonder whether, and I don’t know, I’m just sort of making a summarization here, that because you weren’t particularly infused with Perio in your younger days, whether that effectively helps you communicate better, because you’ve sort of gone through that journey yourself where you weren’t particularly interested in it and then suddenly you were very interested in it. And now when you’re trying to teach and explain to people, you’ve sort of got a passion that you carry.

REENA (10:23.448)
completed.

REENA (10:29.682)
100%, like a thousand percent, because I completely get it. And I think unless you’re exposed to what perio is really about and how much benefit it can bring you, your patients and your practice, not just from a clinical point of view, from a financial point of view, I think then you realize, okay, this is actually a specialty, which makes sense. But I just think as an undergraduate, you’re not really taught that side of it. know, no one really talks about the surgical side, the aesthetic treatments. So, you know, I only know this because I then obviously

Andy & Chris (10:31.667)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (10:55.711)
Mm.

REENA (10:59.358)
decide to specialise and then went through that programme. So, having that perspective that, okay, get it guys, I get it, I understand where you’re coming from really helps because then I can actually expose what it’s really about.

Andy & Chris (11:01.598)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (11:12.405)
And when you were doing your specialist training was RW Peryo always part of that plan? Did you see you do your specialist training, you’d get really good and then you would have a specialist practice?

REENA (11:23.486)
Yeah, I think it was always on the cards in terms of I’m very stubborn, you see, I like to do things my own way. Like I want everything to be perfect and this specific equipment. And so as an associate, that was really, I mean, I had the best teams and principals that I worked with. cannot complain about that, but there’s obviously a limit as to how far you can push things. So the only way to do things myself was to set up my own clinic. But by that point as well, I had developed a really nice network.

Andy & Chris (11:28.659)
Ha ha ha ha ha

Andy & Chris (11:44.063)
Hmm.

REENA (11:53.572)
of dentists and hygienists who would potentially refer to me so it’s a risk I wanted to try out and take and initially it was I was literally just hiring out a room and paying a day rate hiring out a room in Wimpole Street one day a week and just testing it out and testing can I can I actually build my diary and it did take some time I mean I remember my first day my only patient was my dad so

Andy & Chris (12:07.582)
Anyway.

Andy & Chris (12:17.119)
And he didn’t need period

REENA (12:21.038)
He did actually. He’s very fine now but he actually had some pockets so we had to get that treated and so it took some time, took some patience but that’s how I initially started and then obviously it’s grown from there.

Andy & Chris (12:26.802)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (12:33.661)
And what are the challenges that you face in marketing a specialist practice over a general practice? mean, okay, you had a healthy start because you’d already built your network because you worked across a number of practices, people knew who you were. But now you’re obviously looking to grow the practice beyond that initial cohort. How do you kind of market your practice?

REENA (12:53.27)
Yeah, so mainly I would say it’s the main form of marketing for us is word of mouth and positive feedback from patients. essentially for us, we get our patients largely from referrers, external referrers, dentists, hygienists, therapists. And I always say to our referrers, send us literally one patient and see how positive they are about the whole patient journey because we’ve spent so much time and effort on that. I can guarantee they will be happy and we will get the results for you. And so what happens is the referrer then hears back from the patient

wow that was amazing, got the best results and then they send more. So that sort of cycle works really well and we really look after our referrers. We do so much education for them, many events, I’m always keeping them in the loop, they’ll all be getting the handbook, you know all that kind of stuff so we really look after them as best as we can. So that’s worked really well. We have a pretty good social media presence as well which has been helpful, which just kind of amplifies what we’re doing in our message. But yeah I think like a positive

Andy & Chris (13:38.089)
Hmm.

REENA (13:52.992)
feedback from current patients is really helpful. We do have a percentage of patients, probably like 20, 30 % who come directly. So now, know, the dentist may not have made an official referral. They might have just said, you need to see a specialist. So they Google gum specialist, Harley Street or whatever. Or there’s patients out there who just have bleeding gums and they all that have gum aesthetic issues. So we will get those direct patients. So think Google reviews really help with that. But we don’t actually spend too much on other types of marketing. We found that like genuine stuff has actually really done

Andy & Chris (14:00.776)
I was not.

Andy & Chris (14:11.743)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Andy & Chris (14:15.69)
For sure.

Andy & Chris (14:20.211)
Mm.

REENA (14:22.937)
trick.

Andy & Chris (14:23.455)
Do you still get resistance from some dentists or not really?

REENA (14:28.374)
In terms of referring, it’s more so that they say to us that their patients can’t afford it or they’re not that motivated, but there are ways around that. Like I always say to them, it’s all about communication. have you explained to them, if you’re talking about money, right, if you explain to them, if you lose one tooth, one implant is 3,000 pounds and our treatment plans are around 2,000 for the whole mouth. So it’s like, would you, and we can save all the teeth, right? So would you rather pay tens of thousands of pounds for implants?

Andy & Chris (14:29.865)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (14:51.615)
Mm.

REENA (14:58.34)
or £2,000. So it’s about putting into perspective, we offer interest-free finance and then also there’s such a strong link between gum health and general health. making sure patients understand that and understand that this is the foundation to anything else you do. So if you want orthodontic treatment or know bonding veneers you have to get them sorted. So yeah we can get some not resistance but the referers feel there are challenges when they’re talking to the patients about it but I do truly believe there are ways around that.

Andy & Chris (15:06.815)
Mm-hmm.

Andy & Chris (15:16.276)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (15:27.916)
Hmm. I just wanted dentists thinking now. I don’t need you I can do it myself. It’s fine. Yeah

REENA (15:32.206)
No, I actually, we don’t really get that. Like most dentists don’t want to do the perio. Like they hate it. So we’re actually at an advantage. They’re happy to ship it off if possible. So yeah, we don’t have a problem with that.

Andy & Chris (15:36.455)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (15:40.116)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (15:44.191)
It’s interesting what you say about some patients effectively self-refer. They’ve spoken to their dentist and I think that just serves that as patients they’re getting, or we’re getting way better informed and there’s so much more information out there that they can actually find you, you themselves, which is quite, that probably wouldn’t have happened five, six years ago.

REENA (16:03.422)
Definitely, I think there’s so much information out there. There’s also a lot of inaccurate information out there as well. Most of our patients will be educated before they’re sitting in the chair. They feel like they know us through social media. They’ve seen our profiles, they’ve seen the practice, they’ve seen photos, videos. They already know us before they attend, which you wouldn’t have many, many years ago. But definitely patients are educated. They know what they want. They know the different types of…

Andy & Chris (16:10.299)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (16:20.081)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (16:28.625)
No.

REENA (16:33.296)
surgery. mean I’m so surprised some patients come in and they’re like I want this particular surgery which is quite technical for patients to come out with that. but yeah I mean overall I think it’s a good thing that patients are more educated now.

Andy & Chris (16:38.751)
What?

Andy & Chris (16:44.031)
It’s a lost opportunity for the dentist, isn’t it, really? You know, like the dentist who just says, you need to see a specialist, rather than say, by the way, let me introduce you to a specialist. It haunts his credibility. because even if they don’t generate revenue, they’re generating goodwill, aren’t they? Because crime But refer to you, and they’re going to come back absolutely raving about their experience, which is then going to reflect well on the general practitioner. And they’re going to get a book as well.

REENA (16:55.438)
it.

REENA (17:00.535)
Exactly.

REENA (17:08.32)
That’s it. Yeah. Whoa.

Andy & Chris (17:09.671)
Well, nice lead up to the book. So you’ve got your book coming out soon, the Perrier Handbook.

REENA (17:16.844)
Yeah, no, just going back to that, I think it’s actually a really important point that it’s so, so important to make the referral because we can then keep the dentist in the loop because at the end of the day, any specialist practice is an extension of the general dentist’s care and you’re right, we are a reflection of their care because they’ve made the recommendation. So us all communicating together and looking after that patient the best we can is the most important thing. But yes, we have the Perrier handbook coming out, so I’ve been working on this for like three years now.

Andy & Chris (17:29.199)
Hmm

Andy & Chris (17:34.279)
Yeah. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (17:44.243)
Ha ha.

REENA (17:46.72)
It’s been, this is like my first baby. So basically I started, yeah, before I was pregnant and then through my pregnancy and then after, but it’s been like this whole, it’s taken a while. It’s been on and off just under three years. yeah, but I’ve been wanting to do it for so long. And it’s a summary of literally everything you need to know at Imperio for someone working in general practice, whether they’re a dentist, hygienist, student, like, and I’ve always, since I was an undergraduate,

Andy & Chris (17:50.207)
Is that how long it took to write it?

REENA (18:16.576)
loved summaries, like just I just want to know what I really need to know and in a really succinct summary. So this book is literally just that. It’s got everything you need to It’s a really easy to remember book. It’s about, we’re on camera here, so it’s about two hundred and…

Andy & Chris (18:20.648)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (18:25.417)
How thick is it?

Andy & Chris (18:30.529)
okay yeah cool okay so so so a bit bigger than in my head what a handbook might be I feel more like a pamphlet but not a war and peace I saw a holiday read that’s that’s what it is yeah yeah that’s brilliant

REENA (18:39.886)
It’s like a weekend read, it’s 256 pages, it’s a really easy read, it’s got some really nice diagrams and it’s meant to be something you can just put in your office or on the surgery, you just refer to, it’s got key references in it and the main thing is it will reduce your medico-legal risk because right now, Perio is at the top of the medico-legal, people are getting sued left, right and centre for Perio so this will reduce your chances of that happening.

Andy & Chris (18:48.499)
Yeah, good.

Andy & Chris (18:58.862)
really?

Andy & Chris (19:03.519)
Wow, that’s an interesting one, isn’t it? That’s got to be part of the sale, it? I was interested in the subtitle, Rena, because the subtitle is the complete guide to modern periodontics. Has the way that you treat periodontics changed over the years? Are the techniques that you’re working to today evolving and moving quite quickly? No longer swig your mouth with whiskey.

REENA (19:10.274)
Yes.

REENA (19:22.894)
Definitely, exactly. So no, it has changed a lot from the clinical point of view in terms of the techniques we use. For example, many of the listeners may or may not have heard of minimally invasive non-surgical therapy. So that’s a style of non-surgical treatment we do. that all the new surgical techniques that are out there for things like gingivore recession. But it’s also the communication side and the treatment planning side as well, which has all been updated. So yeah, think nothing changed in peri for like a long time.

sort of five to ten years so much has changed so yeah it’s definitely worthwhile having a look.

Andy & Chris (19:58.783)
Is that new technologies or better understanding?

REENA (20:01.742)
Technology is better understanding, more personalized care, we’ve got better evidence for certain types of treatments, certain types of materials, it’s all science has just got better and we are now all trying to follow evidence-based way of working. So there’s so many guidelines by the British Society of Paralongology and the European Society which kind of everyone should be following.

Andy & Chris (20:23.775)
Was there an, I’m just intrigued at the fact of, you know, teeth and gum has been around for years, you know, ever. And then periodontics. Was there some sort of catalyst that created that improvement in technology? You know, what sort of suddenly spawned it, do reckon?

REENA (20:41.516)
I think it’s overall in medicine there’s been a forward thinking style approach in terms of bespoke care, personalized care, how can we get the best patient outcomes and also now the kind of focus is not just clinical outcomes, it’s also patient related outcomes like for example like we want, yeah we care about pockets being reduced, what does the patient care about? So I think there’s been this whole mindset shift in the way we look at medicine in general and dentistry’s definitely definitely perio has fought.

that path. We’ve also like the whole big thing now is wellness you know and investing in your whole health and you know Gum Health is a part of that conversation so all of that has probably fueled more research and at the end of day I think in any medical field you want to continue to advance and get better results for our patients so all of that I think is as field developments for sure.

Andy & Chris (21:17.567)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (21:29.128)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (21:34.183)
You were saying the books for people in general practice, so dentists, therapists, hygienists, will this handbook make them feel more confident in identifying and referring patients or doing some of those early level treatments themselves before referral?

REENA (21:48.75)
Definitely, definitely. It’s the whole sort of, so the way it’s broken down is the whole treatment and the whole patient pathway from the first time you see them to the diagnosis, to the treatment planning, to the non-surgical treatment, and then the surgery and referring. So it’s the whole pathway with sort of tips and tricks along the way.

Andy & Chris (22:08.285)
You can feel Reena’s passion. yeah. It’s like, it’s really interesting. And when I was reading details before we started talking, there’s a phrase I come across that you said is gum aesthetics or tweakments. Never heard the phrase before. does this form part of a wider aesthetic treatment that general dentists do, or is this something that a specialist periodontist would have to do?

REENA (22:11.05)
I’m

REENA (22:25.343)
Yeah.

REENA (22:37.198)
Yeah, so aesthetics is a big thing now and everyone always focuses on the teeth and the white aesthetics, but it’s actually the pink aesthetics which are also just as important, which is the gum. It’s like if you had a beautiful painting and you had the worst frame around it, right, you’re not going to any justice. people are now looking at pink aesthetics. Gum aesthetics is all about, there’s kind of two parts to this. Gum recession, so coverage of, you know, gum recession, because people don’t like long teeth. They’re very aging, so more and more people want to have

Andy & Chris (22:40.319)
Mmm.

Andy & Chris (22:47.455)
Right.

Andy & Chris (22:51.604)
Ha ha.

REENA (23:07.152)
their exposed roots covered where possible so we do a lot of gum graft surgery but the other side is like gummy smiles or uneven gum contours and there’s all these standards that we can follow so we do things like to deal with that so I think that’s a lot of the surgery I do nowadays is related to that.

Andy & Chris (23:16.637)
Wow! Flippin’ Tucker!

Andy & Chris (23:26.06)
Can I be in a non-clinician arena? What is a gum graft? So is this like you cut a bit of gum from somewhere else and stick it on another bit of where your tooth is a bit long?

REENA (23:33.388)
Yeah, basically, yes. Yeah, and we pull the gum down over it to cover the exposed root. And it’s for people who are like really thin gums who over brush their teeth and they’ve got problems with like the aesthetics, it’s progressing, they’ve got sensitivity. It’s very, very common. I’ll do at least one gum graft a week. It’s super popular, yeah.

Andy & Chris (23:52.787)
Wow. Wow. And are we learning more about gum disease? We spoke to Victoria Samson before and she’s doing a lot of work around saliva testing and the oral microbiome and inflammation. Is there a crossover with that work and what you now know about gum disease and how that impacts people’s overall health and their systemic health?

REENA (24:03.886)
you.

REENA (24:16.45)
Yeah, I think there’s lots of developments in the links between gum health and general health. I think the two key conditions, diabetes and cardiovascular disease, the most kind of got the strongest level of evidence. The other kind of conditions, there’s emerging evidence, but we have to be careful here. think with things like saliva tests, unfortunately, the science isn’t there at the moment for us to be able to really use that in diagnostics, et cetera. Otherwise, we’d be doing it every day and everyone would be doing it.

But yeah, I think it’s an area to watch. I’m very academic, I’m very evidence based. I only kind of follow things that I know for sure works, but there is a really interesting area which I think is developing further. So it’s one to watch. I think as minimum, we should all be talking to our patients about, know, Mr. Smith, I hope, you you tell them about gum disease, then I’d usually say, you know, the whole mouth is linked, mouth is linked with body. And if you have gum disease, you may increase your chance of risk of general health condition.

Andy & Chris (24:50.335)
Hmm.

REENA (25:16.837)
So let’s use it positively, like, you know, let’s get your arms under control to minimize your general health risks. So I think patients do deserve to know it, but we have to just be really careful on what conditions and what level of evidence we have for certain things.

Andy & Chris (25:19.433)
that year.

Hmm.

Andy & Chris (25:30.571)
No, that’s fair. I didn’t realise Perrier was so interesting really, if I’m brutally honest. Well, that kind of leads into my next point about you’ve got Perrier School, your academy. And is there a people leaning into wanting to learn about gums and…

REENA (25:40.706)
Yes.

Andy & Chris (25:47.007)
Perio? It feels like we’re in a world where all people want to do is straighten teeth and make them whiter, isn’t it? We’ve got lots of practices that literally do a line of bonding and whitening. you start with a bit of an outlier. You’re kind of doing neogums. Is your periole school of interest perhaps to younger dentists who see this as being a pathway for them in the future? That’s an interesting question. Is there a demographic of your…

REENA (25:55.79)
Yeah.

REENA (26:04.652)
Yeah.

REENA (26:13.013)
Yeah.

Well, interestingly, there’s been a massive surge in people interested in Perio before no one was interested in it and now more and more people are realizing it’s such a good specialty to get into.

Andy & Chris (26:16.573)
to students.

Andy & Chris (26:28.063)
I blame you. Honestly, I blame you because you’re the person that’s out there talking about period. Yeah. one else is speaking about it as far as I’m aware.

REENA (26:30.988)
Yeah, I’m happy to take that blame because…

We need more people doing carrier because there’s such a need out there, such a demand for it. So we’ve, yeah, I have to say in the last two years, at least we’ve seen a lot more dentists and hygienists wanting to do more courses. We run a, we do lots of different courses, like online courses, one day courses, weekend courses, but one of our most popular programs, we actually do a one year diploma course. So you get a postgraduate diploma in paradoxics and we are inundated with people wanting to do that. We’ve already filled

the last we filled next year we’re nearly half filled the year after so it’s so what I’m finding is they’re definitely people who want to take their skill to the next level in wilder which is so nice to see.

Andy & Chris (27:11.775)
Flip.

Andy & Chris (27:15.39)
Yeah.

I think it’s exciting as well because you also get to see things from your perspective.

We don’t see, so in another world, we value and sell dental practices. So we get to see lots of people’s accounts. And at the moment, there seems to be such a significant shift towards cosmetic type treatment. So to hear that you’re booked up for 2025 and interested into 2026, it’s great because actually, from the way you described it, it’s a really important part of our overall care. I love the phrase that I’ve never heard it before. I’m not a You know, when you were talking about the pink aesthetics.

REENA (27:35.619)
Mm-hmm.

Andy & Chris (27:54.013)
I think that’s that’s I’d never really thought about that. You know, you you what’s the point of having these super straight white teeth if you got manky old? It’s quite interesting what you were saying.

REENA (28:02.179)
Yeah, dentists are realising that they want to do these great restorative treatment plans but they’re now realising that if I’ve got a bit of extra skill on the gums, like doing a little bit of crown lengthening, levelling the gums, then it will really bring their cases together. So it’s all about trying to upskill and you get the best results for the patients with those skills.

Andy & Chris (28:14.163)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (28:19.565)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (28:23.753)
Hmm. I’m sorry. was gonna say also I is it do you fascinated by gum? What was again? Bonding was I? Grafted grafting. Thank you. And does it happen in older people? Because all I’m thinking is they’ve got more money

REENA (28:32.046)
Thank

REENA (28:38.178)
Yeah, so it can.

So it can happen in anyone. have people in their 20s who are doing gum grafting on because it can happen for different reasons. So I would say it’s across the board that you can get gum recession. Sometimes gum recession is because of gum disease, which is then harder to address with grafting. We would do other things for that. But it can actually happen like gum disease. It affects the youngest patient to elderly. So it’s all categories. No one’s left out.

Andy & Chris (28:52.543)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (29:06.821)
all ranging. No one’s left out. is your perio school, do you deliver that in your practice? So they get to see, right.

REENA (29:14.216)
Yes, so we have a teaching institute and we have our hands-on facility in Arleigh Street which is super fun because we can do lots of hands-on training. We’ve got technology now where we can do live streaming so we have like for example for our diploma students I will do a live surgical case in the surgery here and we’ll stream it to the training facility and one of my other colleagues will be interacting with me asking questions so it’s super it’s like yeah it’s amazing it’s so much fun I think it’s one of the

Andy & Chris (29:39.112)
Well.

REENA (29:44.24)
I like my week being mixed but definitely the teaching side and interacting with other dentists and hygienists is always fun.

Andy & Chris (29:52.607)
It’s your passion isn’t it? do want to say, you love it. Enthusiasm. You found your right bit in dentistry. We talked to of a gum graft in video. I’m fascinated by that, that’s unbelievable. But isn’t it? Yeah, I think you can talk to anybody about anything and you’ll get drawn in if they’re passionate about it. And that’s why it doesn’t surprise me that your course is sold out, more people want to come because…

REENA (29:56.811)
I heard you.

Andy & Chris (30:17.727)
They will take that enthusiasm for you. Absolutely. Look, I’ve never known so much about periodic, it’s taught to re-enter. Flip.

REENA (30:22.51)
Enthusiasm for me is like the most important thing. In fact, in our team, we have a set of values and we set three values for all of our team members. And one of them is enthusiasm. Because for me, I want you to like being here and being part of the team. And if you’re not enthusiastic, why are you doing it?

Andy & Chris (30:34.911)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (30:41.383)
Yeah, yeah, definitely for sure. So when’s your book coming out and where can people get it from?

REENA (30:46.83)
Yes, so the book is going to be launched on the 10th of December onwards. It’s going to be available on Amazon. Yeah, so 10th and 11th there will be a special offer. It’s actually going to be 99p on Kindle. So if you catch it then you’ve got the offer. If not afterwards obviously Amazon and then yeah you can buy it through us as well but Amazon is probably the best place to purchase it and then we’re hopefully going to be working on an audiobook so that you can listen to us whilst you’re traveling etc. So that’s in the pipeline.

Andy & Chris (30:54.195)
Is it like a big book launch?

Andy & Chris (31:03.301)
cool.

Andy & Chris (31:15.901)
Wow. Brilliant. I one of my Kindle for 99p. you narrate that yourself, the audiobook? Is that the plan? I think it makes a massive difference. We are listening to books that are just narrated by somebody else.

REENA (31:19.349)
Yeah.

I would love to, yeah, I’d love to do that myself. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (31:29.405)
as opposed to the author. listened to Barack Obama’s book, it’s an audio book, and it’s just so much richer if it’s from the author. Well, that enthusiasm that Reena’s got, can you imagine that in your ears? Yeah. While you’re doing it. Yeah, as opposed to an AI voice. kill it dead. Yeah, no one would listen. Reena, we get to the time now where we need to ask you a couple of questions before we can let you go. So the first one is, if you…

REENA (31:30.798)
Yeah. Yes.

REENA (31:36.61)
Yeah, right.

REENA (31:40.918)
Hahaha.

And I would definitely want to go to myself.

REENA (31:53.912)
you.

Andy & Chris (31:57.055)
could be a fly on a wall in a situation. Where would you be and who would be there?

REENA (32:02.99)
Really good question. Flying the wall, probably I would love to be flying the wall somewhere like Apple where maybe Steve Jobs and his team are talking about the first iPhone and how they came up with that and the creativity and the technology and the innovation. It would be amazing to witness something like that, I think.

Andy & Chris (32:25.343)
Yeah, I mean things like that are just they just changed industries didn’t you know, and now we’re so used to having Technology in our hands. We forget what it must have been like at the very first moment where somebody said Do you think we could do this? That that would be a great conversation I did I did a while. I in holida. I did a little bit of research and did you know the balance of iPhone versus Android? No clue 51 % Apple

REENA (32:41.6)
Exactly, exactly.

Andy & Chris (32:53.791)
49 % Android. It’s amazing that it’s like split down the middle. That’s close enough. yeah. Yes. I thought it was fascinating. So it’s a casual aside there. I find small little interesting facts quite interesting. There we go. our follow up question, Marina, last one is you could meet somebody who would you like to meet given the opportunity? Dead or alive?

REENA (33:03.054)
That’s very interesting.

REENA (33:13.934)
Actually linking back to your Obamas. I’d probably want to meet Michelle Obama. think, I mean I’ve read her book, she’s amazing. I think she’s very intelligent, her ability to like connect with people. I also like how she balances ambition with just staying grounded at the same time. So I think someone like that I would love to have a dinner date with for sure.

Andy & Chris (33:19.583)
Mmm.

Andy & Chris (33:38.665)
That’d be fascinating. I think there could be a future president in there as well. What, Rena? yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, not Michelle, Rena. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

REENA (33:42.57)
Yeah, maybe.

God, no! Maybe in another life.

Andy & Chris (33:52.201)
Prime Minister might get something done. All political, but they’re moving on there. Reenat, it’s been wonderful. If you could give us some links as well, so we could drop those in the guest notes. So if people find out more about you and also get your book as well, that’d be great. But yeah, thank you for your time today. It’s been really good. And educational. Exactly. Yeah, Chris has often had to do some Googling of gum grafting. I’m going to book onto your course. Just have a look.

REENA (34:01.178)
Absolutely.

REENA (34:14.478)
You’re going to come in and see me for a gun graft. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye.

Andy & Chris (34:20.664)
Lovely, Reena. Thanks for your time today. Keep well. Thank you.