Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Richard Marques
Episode release date – Monday 8th May 2023
andy___chris:
They keep coming, don’t they? They do as every week. Exactly, and we’ve got a wonderful star joining us today. So today, we have a dentist. He’s also the owner and principal dentist at Dr. Richard Clinics London, a podcast host in his own right, hosting the Dr. Richard podcast, and Dentist to the Stars. Oh, look at Dentist to the Stars. So it’s welcome to Dr. Richard Marx. How are you, Richard?
dr_richard:
Very well, thank you.
andy___chris:
Yeah, brilliant. Not to be confused with the songwriter.
dr_richard:
haha
andy___chris:
Yeah, did…
dr_richard:
yes Richard Markson he was quite a good songwriter as well
andy___chris:
Yeah,
dr_richard:
so
andy___chris:
it’s very good.
dr_richard:
that’s a good one
andy___chris:
Hazard
dr_richard:
to share
andy___chris:
comes
dr_richard:
the name
andy___chris:
on the radio
dr_richard:
with
andy___chris:
still. Does that ever happen? Do people confuse you with the songs of the eighties?
dr_richard:
wouldn’t mind if they did.
andy___chris:
Can you imagine? Booking restaurants would be quite cool, wouldn’t it?
dr_richard:
Ha!
andy___chris:
I was saying one of my friends, his name is David Foster, and he used to work for a private bank in California. And obviously David Foster is a world famous songwriter. So he used to get his secretary to book a table for David Foster, and he’d turn up and the people would be like,
dr_richard:
Ahahahahaha.
andy___chris:
Well, I imagine if you turn that with some of your patients, you probably get a fantastic table anyway, but we’ll come on to that later. Richard, you host your own podcast and you very kindly invited me on to it a little while ago. One of the questions that you ask me and you ask all of your guests is, what makes you smile? So to turn the tables and to kick off, what makes you smile?
dr_richard:
I think there’s many things that made me smile, but for me it is those things, family, friends, my partner, and my job as well. So those things make me smile and I think I’m lucky in my job to be giving a smile to someone else, you know, so with cosmetic dentistry, you know, we’re that have been really confident about smiling. And then we’re able to help them to smile. And also we hope that they find it a pleasant experience if possible. So we hope they’re smiling anyway.
andy___chris:
I think it’s interesting. I think lots of dentists, it’s easy to get wrapped up in the very clinical side of things as what’s being achieved and don’t get me wrong, that’s incredibly important but I think sometimes it’s easy to lose sight of the impact you can have on someone’s confidence and how they feel about themselves and how they interact with other people and that comes from a smile. If someone smiles at you, it’s very hard not to smile back isn’t it but that has to come from a place of confidence and you can give that
dr_richard:
Yeah, it’s really a gift to be able to do that and,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
you know, it’s a real privilege. And I think, you know, people are coming in and sometimes they’re nervous, sometimes they have phobias and you just want to be as gentle and understanding as you can. You know, and those things are really important. And I think this is a new way of dentistry is like, you know, not that very much,
andy___chris:
Mm.
dr_richard:
and making it just a better experience and kind
andy___chris:
Hmm
dr_richard:
of reframing it for people from those kind of like people had the school dentist and stuff,
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
but let’s be all scared about these things. It’s like taking that experience and being like,
andy___chris:
Mm.
dr_richard:
look, actually dentists can be friendly. We’ve got your best interest at heart. And,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
you know,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
we’re in healthcare. That’s the important thing. Like, go to the dentist.
andy___chris:
Do you think that’s never been easy with social media? Because it’s much easier to demonstrate your personality or soft side, what it is you do. Whereas historically, there was always a negative connotation of blood and pain and dental practice all smelled a particular way. But it was no other channel for dentists to kind of show another sign to themselves. I think with social media and other digital tools, it’s never probably been easier to show people the other side of dentists and that they are real people and they do care.
dr_richard:
Yeah, I think social media has really helped. Firstly, with Cosmetic Dentistry, it’s a very visual thing, so we
andy___chris:
Mmm.
dr_richard:
can show like before
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
and afters. But also now we can show a bit of our personality and, you know, as you said, kind of take away this kind of apprehension that people have. And it’s nice to be able to get that across that we are actually humans, you
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
know,
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
it’s not
andy___chris:
Much to contrary belief. Not to contrary
dr_richard:
Ha
andy___chris:
belief.
dr_richard:
ha!
andy___chris:
They’re not robots. They’re really nice people. And they have feelings. Exactly.
dr_richard:
Exactly.
andy___chris:
And as a family, you’ve got Lini Gjot goes back to your Portuguese grandfather. He was the first, I think, of the dentistry in your family. So with that kind of, you know, your grandfather and your parents, was for you, was dentistry never in doubt? Were there never any other choices?
dr_richard:
Well, it’s really interesting, because as you say, my grandfather was the first he came from Portugal. He actually studied in Durham University, where he met my grandmother. And obviously my father’s dentist. My mother was in dental school, my uncle, there’s a lot of us.
andy___chris:
Yeah,
dr_richard:
My
andy___chris:
wow.
dr_richard:
sister, she’s a dental therapist. So, yeah, there’s quite a few of us in dentistry. But the thing is, which I would say is that there was a time I was always kind of looked up to my dad, I’m a brilliant dentist and he was like a great figurehead for the family. He worked really hard and he was very passionate about his job and he’s retired now, but he still has passion for what he did. But I think that there was a time where I was thinking, oh, maybe I’m going to be anything but a dentist. And I was thinking,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
what other options are there out there for me? I did think about medicine. different avenues to go down something more creative, like advertising, marketing, those kind of things. So there was lots of different things that I thought about and writing as well. But in the end, I just saw that I think it’s because my dad did really enjoy his job, you know,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
that and he had a real passion for it. And that kind of made me think, actually, you know, it’s a great thing to do. And I actually find that it is a very human job. It’s whatever, it’s easier that concerns you are helping people and
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
you are making a difference. So I think that those things really, really help to make it a great profession. It’s like, sometimes people can go through their career and they wonder, in different careers, they wonder what am I doing in this office job, what
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
have I done.
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
But every day, you know, as a dentist you know you’ve made a difference to somebody. of every day you can feel like I’ve had a hopefully positive effect
andy___chris:
Hmm. Hmm.
dr_richard:
on people and you’ve done something very human, you’ve fixed it, you’ve got someone out of pain, you know, help them with their smile, you know,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
this and so all of those things make this job really, really a great job.
andy___chris:
Mm-hmm
dr_richard:
It’s healthcare is something that you’re passionate about.
andy___chris:
Yeah, anyone wants to do something rewarding, don’t they? Where you actually, and what’s great is with them, is you say you actually get to see the output and
dr_richard:
Yeah,
andy___chris:
the effect you
dr_richard:
it’s
andy___chris:
have,
dr_richard:
very
andy___chris:
don’t
dr_richard:
tangible.
andy___chris:
you? Yeah,
dr_richard:
You
andy___chris:
that’s
dr_richard:
get
andy___chris:
right,
dr_richard:
a real
andy___chris:
yeah.
dr_richard:
result.
andy___chris:
It’s not like someone disappears and then they might have a good, you know, what you’ve said, but actually it’s physically so there, you can see it what you’ve done. Yeah, and it’s quite intimate and it’s also ongoing as well, isn’t it? You know, it’s not one of those jobs where you do something with somebody and then they move on and that’s it. an ongoing relationship, which is nice. And clearly you, your father was passionate about it. And that kind of, whether that got fed to him from, you know, your grandfather, but that kind of passion fed through to you. And I think you’re right. I think if you do something you enjoy, you’re much more likely to stick with it. I mean, one of our previous guests is, we spoke to Christian Coachman, and he’s a sixth generation dentist. So his family has, I don’t think he’s had a chance.
dr_richard:
Even more
andy___chris:
No.
dr_richard:
than me. Haha!
andy___chris:
Exactly, exactly. You never know the Marxists are there. You know, you’ve got three on the books now. They might be more to come. They say, are you only children? What are they doing? So yeah, but yeah, I think if you speak to somebody who is passionate, there’s no doubt that it does fire you up to do that. So then you then went to Kings and St. Thomas’s. What was dental school like for you? Was it an enjoyable experience? Did you have to apply yourself or did you breathe through it? Or did you party?
dr_richard:
You know what was interesting? There’s some interesting things about that. It was a fantastic time. Like it’s literally one of the best times of your life. It’s university and I can say it was an amazing time. The thing is, I thought at that time, and I think a lot of dentists can relate to this, that when you’re a dental student, you think, oh, this is so difficult. I’m going through all these examinations. This is a really difficult part of my life. Where in reality, this is the easiest part of your life.
andy___chris:
You just don’t know it then.
dr_richard:
You don’t know it. And the other thing is that you also want to have that freedom. That’s the
andy___chris:
ம்..
dr_richard:
difficult part is you want to have that freedom, that fun, but at the same time you’ve got something really serious to do. And for a dentist, even from the second year, you’re treating patients. So responsibility comes very early. You know, we enter dental school at 18.
andy___chris:
Hmm. Hmm.
dr_richard:
And so, you know, it is quite a lot of responsibility, but I think if it’s something you embrace, you will enjoy that. Yeah, and the dental school, they were this King’s, guidance, it’s known to be quite, you know, strict or quite a hard, it was quite difficult course. But at the same time, that teaches you a lot to a very high standard you know
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
but it was funny like I had always done really well in examinations through my whole life. I’ve always been quite good in exams but I remember there was like a mini test early on and I didn’t pass it and I thought there must be some kind of mistake with the grading but I had to realise that this is not going to be a walk in the
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
going to really test you, but by testing you, it makes you become better. You know, and I have a lot to thank for them for really, you know, putting us through that hard dental education, which made us the best then spotter ball.
andy___chris:
Yeah, sometimes it’s good to have the early kickback isn’t it? When you’re sort of like, oh, maybe I’m not my just everything I touch doesn’t turn to gold and I have got to
dr_richard:
Bye.
andy___chris:
refocus a bit I think that’s a great. Yeah. Yeah, but
dr_richard:
I don’t
andy___chris:
I
dr_richard:
really like that idea but yeah.
andy___chris:
Yeah, you like the principle of it, not just the feeling. Yeah.
dr_richard:
Well it was also interesting like back in that time like dental schools changed a lot now because as the we were coming into dental school to make us look more professional we had to wear a shirt and a tie and a floor length white coat
andy___chris:
Oh well.
dr_richard:
which I don’t think they do now because you know times have moved on and things have really developed. But that was because also we were only young, you know, young
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
18, 19 year olds to give
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
the patient some form of confidence.
andy___chris:
a few more gravitas, don’t you like proper
dr_richard:
Yeah,
andy___chris:
scientists?
dr_richard:
absolutely. So that was a funny experience as well.
andy___chris:
Yeah, yeah. So you qualify and then we’ll get to your practice and how you styled that in a minute. But once you’ve qualified, what did you move around a fair bit? Did you stick in London and get the experience of a number of different practices?
dr_richard:
So obviously, you know, I started out on the NHS
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
and I did some locaming as well, which I think is really good. And I worked in different practices, like dotted around the country. My father, he moved to Dorset. So I worked a little bit around there. And I also worked in some practices that were not in London, just to get some experience from working So I
andy___chris:
Was
dr_richard:
worked in…
andy___chris:
that a conscious decision on your part about them, Richard? Did you purposely seek out to work in different places to build on that experience?
dr_richard:
For me, I wanted to have different experiences, like
andy___chris:
That’s
dr_richard:
if
andy___chris:
good.
dr_richard:
I had just started in London and
andy___chris:
Yeah,
dr_richard:
had
andy___chris:
yeah.
dr_richard:
a very linear career,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
I feel like that would not give the well-roundedness that I wanted to have, you
andy___chris:
Smart.
dr_richard:
know.
andy___chris:
Yeah, very smart.
dr_richard:
So I really enjoyed working in NHS practices and mixed practices, people from different backgrounds. And I think that really teaches you some things. And it’s also, there’s a really humbling experiences when we used to do something which was for the PCT, which was an emergency contract where people would come
andy___chris:
Right.
dr_richard:
and they would be possibly like they would have gone for hospital dentistry,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
they weren’t registered with a dentist, they were in pain and you know these were people who were covered by the system rather than self-paying patients most of the time and
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
so it really you see something else of people that are really you know in very great dental need and that
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
teaches
andy___chris:
Yeah, I think it’s a very different side of society and I hope that the NHS will always be there for those people. I know it’s
dr_richard:
Me
andy___chris:
being
dr_richard:
too.
andy___chris:
performed, it’s being changed, but I’d like to continue living in a country where people that, you know, for different reasons aren’t able to access private dentistry still have access to that level of care.
dr_richard:
Yeah, and I would always try, you know, what I was doing within my limited ability to do my best that I can in that, in that remit, you know, and
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
provide the best care. And, you know, obviously treating everybody, you know, as well as you can. And, you know, that’s, I think that’s really important. straight into private and kind of maybe isolate yourself from seeing other things so I kind of recommend to people to get different experiences and that’s important.
andy___chris:
What’s interesting isn’t it? Yeah, we’re having a conversation. We had conversation yesterday. So, Samir Patel, the principal of 11 Dental, we were talking to him
dr_richard:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
and he shared the same view. He said that experience you get working on the NHS early on in your career is incredibly valuable because it exposes you to very different sections of society. Yeah, the dentistry that comes at you is quite broad and it’s reach of what’s required. And I think his view and the view that you just shared, you know, head into the private sector too soon. You don’t get that exposure, and not just a clinical exposure in terms of the exposure to society and a broader breadth of people. And communication dealing with multitudes and different people, different needs, I think, is that it? I think it’s very smart of you to have approached
dr_richard:
Yeah.
andy___chris:
it in that way early on. I think lots of people would just have their head down and thought, no, well, I don’t think there’s a thought beyond the mouth because you’re dentists, and the patience and the experience of which the mouth was part of.
dr_richard:
Yeah, I think that’s extremely important is remember there’s a person attached to the teeth and the mouth, do you know what time it is?
andy___chris:
It’s not all phantom heads. What was that? There was some professor or something we did a lecture with or something one time and he said yeah, some people perceive the patient as a biological method to get the mouth into your chair. And it was like,
dr_richard:
Wow.
andy___chris:
whoa, okay, you’ve
dr_richard:
There
andy___chris:
forgotten
dr_richard:
was,
andy___chris:
the people.
dr_richard:
I know, there was a hilarious, I mean, this is actually quite worried in a way, but there was a book, and this is a real book of historic pediatric dentistry. And there were techniques for treating children. And there was techniques, and this is not a joke, there was a technique called the hand over mouth technique taking my hand off until he’d be quiet.
andy___chris:
SWR 2020
dr_richard:
And this was in a textbook.
andy___chris:
Wow, approved learning. Yeah, yeah, flip.
dr_richard:
And then there was this board which they would put on them, which held their arms and legs so they
andy___chris:
Allaaaaaah!
dr_richard:
couldn’t… It’s, this is, I’m really just absolute truth, you know, and they kind
andy___chris:
My
dr_richard:
of
andy___chris:
goodness.
dr_richard:
showed us that this is a kind of historical artifact of how things have changed so much, you know, and
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
now everything in terms of techniques is showing somebody something first and
andy___chris:
Hmm
dr_richard:
you can break it down, you know, them just getting in the chair to start with and then becoming a client advice, you might do a dental cleaning first and work their way up to the bigger
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
treatment. So things have changed so, so, so much.
andy___chris:
Yeah, and talking about working up to bigger things, you’re now the principle of Dr. Richards clinics in London. And you’re now incredibly well known for treating high profile patients, you know, actors, sports stars, musicians, among others. And if you just take a quick scroll through Richard’s Instagram feed, it’s like a who’s who of celebrities. How did you become the go-to dentist for celebrities? How did that come about? Because people will see where you are now you know, A-list leverages are visiting you on a regular basis. But what was the start point? Who was first? Did you plan for this to be part of your business, or has it just evolved?
dr_richard:
I think that these things don’t happen overnight and nobody
andy___chris:
No.
dr_richard:
sees necessarily the journey to
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
getting to that place. But there was a time where, because I was interested in cosmetic and aesthetic dentistry, I did think, how can I get my work out there? And I think by having your cosmetic dentistry on someone well-known, then people can see that smile and they can identify with it and think,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
like somebody. And I first started to become kind of in the press, to become a dentist that kind of spoke in the press about dentistry when I was asked and kind of putting it into terms that real people could understand, you know, rather than in a very kind of academic and journal referencing way, something the you know, cutting down your sugar, plotting, brushing,
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
you know, all those important things that people need to know. And then after that, I got to know quite a few journalists, and I also got to know agents, and then they kind of put me in touch with different celebrities
andy___chris:
Okay.
dr_richard:
at first. One of the first people’s smile I did is Joey Essex.
andy___chris:
Ah,
dr_richard:
And
andy___chris:
okay, I was gonna say what was your first one almost that sort of?
dr_richard:
that was one of my and that became quite famous, you know. So there is a lot of luck involved as well
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
and you know I went on TV on this morning and these things just happened but also the celebrity
andy___chris:
But you
dr_richard:
world
andy___chris:
say,
dr_richard:
is
andy___chris:
but
dr_richard:
quite
andy___chris:
you say,
dr_richard:
small.
andy___chris:
but you say luck Richard, I have a notion. I think luck is the combination of being prepared and opportunity. I think you were prepared. And when the opportunity presented itself, you took it. And I think that’s, yeah. And that, that looks like luck, but you did a lot of groundwork in caught in the media to share dental messages in a mainstream way, which then exposed you to that world. So I think you, you blame yourself down. I think you were ready for it when it came along.
dr_richard:
Yeah, and when I was always been incredibly into hard working and I’ve always been someone who believed in that and that was something taught to me by my family and when I first started I was doing late nights, early mornings, weekends, I still do, but even more so at over Easter and Christmas though. I think hard work is important as well and being dedicated
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
is important. But yeah, also the celebrity world is quite small so when people know each other and then that word of mouth and recommendation, you know, that spreads. So, you know,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
once it gets going, it’s like the snowball effect.
andy___chris:
That must be part of the exciting bit of so how did you find me when I was referred by so okay. Yeah. Yeah.
dr_richard:
more
andy___chris:
And
dr_richard:
ice
andy___chris:
and
dr_richard:
heat
andy___chris:
and does that world bring its own unique demands as well because I imagine that you’ve probably got enhanced privacy issues you’ve got potentially show deadlines you’ve got time demands of when they’re actually going to be in the country and you know that their schedule so are they are they more challenging to treat than other patients not because a’r bwysig yn y rhaid, ond oherwydd o’r sgadwyl a’r nodiol.
dr_richard:
Yeah, absolutely with their scheduling it is can be really challenging. They
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
can say, oh, we need this guy for the last minute and also, can we do this on the weekend at dot late night or early morning? I’ve been in Sunday at 8am before
andy___chris:
Well.
dr_richard:
and sometimes someone might be flying in and then they’re flying straight out, you know, and you need to do something, you know, And then I think there’s something about being very impartial when it comes to confidentiality and not being caught up in gossip or
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
anything like that. Once you’re with that person, they’re a patient and you still have to make sure that you’re delivering on your very best work, not
andy___chris:
Yeah
dr_richard:
being caught up in
andy___chris:
The celebrity
dr_richard:
who
andy___chris:
nonsense
dr_richard:
the person is. But you know that’s an important thing is that you know you’ve always got to Do your best work and think
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
as a patient first
andy___chris:
A question for you Richard, and I don’t want any names. Have there been some celebrities that have come to you and you think, actually no, I just can’t work with you after the consultation?
dr_richard:
Well, the funny thing is that, and I think a lot of people do say this, and it’s sometimes the celebrities who just come into the line, like who could be more challenging or more difficult or more kind of taken away with the fame. So you know, obviously there’s lots of reality stars and
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
majority everyone is really great, and they’re kind of cast into the spotlight and you know the importance of everything
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
that they’re doing on social media and the number of followers they have and then they can kind of lose sight of how to
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
treat other people I
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
would say, you know.
andy___chris:
It’s a bit like old money and new money, I would imagine. You know, that’s sort of like, you know, old money you sort of perceive sometimes as just old money. We’ve always had money. So whereas new money can be a bit brash sometimes. Yes. Yeah.
dr_richard:
Yeah, yeah, you find the biggest stars are often the nicest people and they’re the most low-key.
andy___chris:
Yeah. Yes. Yes. They’re just used to it. And the very public profile of the patients that you’ve treated, the celebrities and the sports stars, does that have a trickle down effect in terms of the lesser well-known patients who come to you? Are they of a similar demographic? Not that they’re level of profile or perhaps they’re level of earnings. But does it narrow the filter of who would typically come to you as a new patient?
dr_richard:
The interesting thing is that I really wanted and intended to treat all types of patients and people. So through that with the celebrities, you know,
andy___chris:
ம்..
dr_richard:
I have such a vastly different type of people. We’ve got the cricketers like Kevin Peterson and Darren Barthes
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
on the board. And then we’ve got, and Jamie Redknapp as the sports person. And then we’ve got obviously, as you said, music stars like Rita Ora.
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
got Tau’i, the only way is Essex, and we’ve got Maiden Chelsea, and we’ve got people from young to older, and that’s something I wanted for my practice. I didn’t want it to feel
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
like it was only one type of patient. And
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
I also wanted it to feel like, you know, anybody who comes should be treated like a celebrity in a way. Like, you know,
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
we want to treat great experience and you know make them feel that special treatment and VIP treatment you know I’ll always go out of my way as much as I can to do everything to make it the
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
best
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
you know treatment and experience possible.
andy___chris:
And I suppose you’ve had to create, I’m assuming, quite a high entry point. So as it deters all the people who sort of like the wannabes who I want to have my teeth done by you because you did Rita Ora. But the answer is I can’t afford, I haven’t got the disposable income. So you must have effectively had to create some sort of barrier to entry really, or an entry point. That’s quite an interesting one. Because that’s about valuing yourself, isn’t it?
dr_richard:
Yeah, yeah, obviously, you know, we’re in a high street practice. So,
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
you know, it is comes at more high value treatments. We do have
andy___chris:
Mm.
dr_richard:
payment plans that people can split things into. And also we have other types, we have products as well and things so people can kind of, you know,
andy___chris:
Yeah, a different entry point.
dr_richard:
So that’s another thing. All people could just come in through a simple cleaning, and
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
they don’t always have to go to the very top
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
treatments.
andy___chris:
Were you always, obviously there’s a very heavy cosmetic and restorative element to what you do and there’s kind of faceless aesthetics as well. Was that something that has become more specialized because of your patient base or was that something that you were always interested in before that happens to flow through to your patient base? Is it kind of the tail wagging the dog or the dog wagging the tail?
dr_richard:
It’s something I was always interested in. And
andy___chris:
Right.
dr_richard:
I did do extra courses on aesthetic. That was my interest. So
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
that’s kind of why the practice took that direction. And obviously, the celebrities helped with that. And another thing that happened is I kind of like rode away from this cosmetic dentistry. I could never have seen how it really would evolve and become such a focus for people. passionate about and then behind me there was this great growing you know interest in what I was doing so you know being in the right place at the right time
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
that’s another thing that kind of happened and I think now they’ve always talked about British people and British teeth and things like that now
andy___chris:
Thank
dr_richard:
people
andy___chris:
you.
dr_richard:
are more aware of
andy___chris:
I say,
dr_richard:
their
andy___chris:
do
dr_richard:
teeth
andy___chris:
Americans
dr_richard:
you know
andy___chris:
always love talking about British teeth, don’t they? Yeah.
dr_richard:
Thank you.
andy___chris:
Yeah, at some point they’re going to have to stop about this. Because actually I think our teeth are getting better. They,
dr_richard:
They
andy___chris:
it’s seen.
dr_richard:
are, they are. The truth is they say like in America obviously like firstly there’s people in Hollywood who you know some have great teeth, some you might say their teeth are too much you know so that’s
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
one thing and then another thing is like in America is even though it’s an amazing country it’s a kind of mentality of single swim and they have
andy___chris:
Hmm
dr_richard:
people with these amazing dental and they have people who really don’t have great dental care. So there is some level of myth there. They did a study and they did find that when you look at everything broadly, and especially, you know, those, the whole of America and all those people that you don’t see and don’t have any health insurance and dental insurance they need in America, they might not always have good teeth.
andy___chris:
No.
dr_richard:
And the British might have overall the middle ground better teeth.
andy___chris:
There we go, we’ll take that out, we’ll take that little piece out and we’ll use that. You
dr_richard:
You’re
andy___chris:
come from
dr_richard:
that
andy___chris:
Utah.
dr_richard:
clay.
andy___chris:
But I think you’re right, I think when we talk about America, we’re typically talking about the Eastern and the Western seaports aren’t we? We’re talking about kind of the New York side and then over from Seattle down to California. There’s a lot of people in the middle section that don’t get captured in there. The DSO guy that we spoke to, at least they sound like 60% or something of dentists, sorry, But then they criticised the English teeth. That’s
dr_richard:
Exactly.
andy___chris:
all that about. And you’ve got another side to your business as well, haven’t you? Because you really recently sold Diamond Whites, the whitening product and the line of business, to impress the orthodontic clinic. And you’ve joined them as clinical director. So congratulations on that, which is amazing. What was the driver to create Diamond Whites back in 2012? And what was that journey like through to kind of exiting news.
dr_richard:
So it’s an interesting story. I have a business partner, Ben Reid, who came from a finance background and he also came from regulatory background as well. So he was really good on those sides of things. And obviously my part was the clinical aspect. And we wanted to bring aligners, like aligners and orthodontics really had a very high price was the chance for us to bring that to a wider market. We talked about kind of like bringing the brand out to a wider market. So it was about creating like a more affordable Liners and we were also using remote monitoring, which is an AI. So it’s like using things that are very much like on the forefront of technology so that people need less visits. It combines digital dentistry, 3D printing, imaging, and this AI, these systems can kind of pick up whether the aligner is seated properly and also whether the gums are inflamed. And it kind of just flags it. So the dentist still needs to double check that,
andy___chris:
you.
dr_richard:
but it just flags it. And it can tell whether the patient should be wearing their aligner for a little bit longer. less frequency of visits in between. So we kind of started that off and we used partner clinics, one of them being my clinic. And it really kind of grew rapidly. Again, we had a celebrity following. And after that, as it was growing, we thought that we want to take this to the next stage. but we recognized that we needed a partner in that and that’s when we were kind of introduced to M-Press and they’re a much larger company with clinics and they’re global and they were just entering UK and they were looking for a partner in UK
andy___chris:
Perfect.
dr_richard:
that kind of understood the UK market. So everything came at a perfect time and it allowed us, they have clinics kind of all over UK. So it allowed us to have a better reach of clinics and they also were able to do more complex orthodontics. So it’s a broader range of offering as well. But they also wanted me on board in order to kind of help to expand the cosmetic and restorative dentistry side offered within
andy___chris:
Right.
dr_richard:
their business. And with then the way that we had kind of built a lot of our own software systems and those things and how we had kind of built a really good team and customer service had been something that was really important to us. So, you know, all of those things we bring on board as well. And it’s amazing partnership. We’re
andy___chris:
Быльян, быльян!
dr_richard:
really happy and we think we can do even more amazing things than
andy___chris:
Yeah,
dr_richard:
we’ve already
andy___chris:
excellent.
dr_richard:
done.
andy___chris:
And it makes sense as well because that space that you’re in, you know, there’s some very big players, there’s some global players in that space. So to bring in, you know, a larger partner to help you get to the next level makes sense because like you say, I think the adoption of AO and that space has become a more and more common, you know, the very big dominant player who we all know, you know, they’re not backing off. So to have somebody that can help you move forward makes makes good sense. bring your restorative and cosmetic element to their services as well, which is an area you’re very strong in.
dr_richard:
Yeah, I believe there’s room for everybody in the market and
andy___chris:
Mm.
dr_richard:
orthodontics and these clear aligners. This is a growing trend, not only within the UK, but globally. And also more people having it done at different ages. There’s
andy___chris:
Yeah
dr_richard:
aligners for teenagers now and even obviously people who are more mature people as well. rolling anyway. So we feel like, you know, in my opinion, there’s room for everybody in the market.
andy___chris:
Mmm, yeah, definitely.
dr_richard:
But there is at the same time, there’s a consolidation. So, you know, there were lots of challenger brands and now we feel like the market’s consolidated and, you know, we just want to provide the best service we can.
andy___chris:
Brilliant, brilliant. Just just going back to your practice Richard, what would you say have been the highs and lows of kind of building and running your dental practice? Because the dangerous people leave this thinking, wow, he’s a rock star, it’s all celebrities, it’s all fireworks and parties and champagne, it all looks so easy.
dr_richard:
There’s some of that.
andy___chris:
We need to lift the drain covers, you know, there’s got to be some hard yards that went on in there as well.
dr_richard:
Yeah, well, there are many difficult parts. And I think when I first started the business, I had just come out of a really, I was doing very well in mixed practice and I’d been doing low-combing. So I was doing very well. And then I had to kind of go back to square one. And when I first opened, all of a sudden I had rent to pay,
andy___chris:
Hehehehehe
dr_richard:
staff to pay, materials to pay. Patience, you know
andy___chris:
Yeah,
dr_richard:
one
andy___chris:
yeah,
dr_richard:
patient
andy___chris:
yeah.
dr_richard:
a day and I remember and I always tell Mr. People I remember not being You know Not going to Starbucks or prayer Which is very common thing to do in London Because that three pounds or was too
andy___chris:
Mmm.
dr_richard:
much, you know,
andy___chris:
Oh,
dr_richard:
I had
andy___chris:
that’s
dr_richard:
to pay
andy___chris:
hot.
dr_richard:
my star and the funny thing was my staff were going
andy___chris:
That’s so off in the way though, is it? Yeah, it’s off in the way.
dr_richard:
thinking at this point when I’m right starting in terms of disposable income, because everything has to go back in the business. My dental nurses, the receptionist have far more disposable income than I do, you know, and this is something that I had to go through in order to, in order to, you know, get to where, where we did manage to get. And I think it also like valuing the team is really important, you always been a big believer in that, take them out on meals and, you know, pay rise.
andy___chris:
Mm.
dr_richard:
My staff are not striking.
andy___chris:
Ha ha ha.
dr_richard:
Not yet anyway. Other things, other challenges that you face are to do with difficult patient cases. There’s some cases which really can just stay on your mind and
andy___chris:
Mm.
dr_richard:
you’re trying to achieve something It can be really heartbreaking. I started trying, I did for a while, I was placing implants, which I don’t do now, but some of them wouldn’t take, they wouldn’t integrate. That was just so heartbreaking because you’ve done
andy___chris:
Mm.
dr_richard:
everything you can. And you don’t want to blame anybody, but you just feel really let down by it. I think other things is when someone has an emergency, that’s a big stress, you know, someone
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
you get an email or a call, I’m in pain, when can I come in? You know, you’ll be on holiday, what
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
can
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
you do? That’s a really nice thing about having a team now. Luckily where I’m situated in London, there’s lots of practices you could refer to. So even when
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
I was practicing on my own, I have a team but
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
that’s another thing when you first start it can be quite lonely you know people
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
say that like you’re you know you’re responsible for so
andy___chris:
everything
dr_richard:
many
andy___chris:
stops
dr_richard:
things
andy___chris:
with you,
dr_richard:
yours
andy___chris:
does that?
dr_richard:
exactly you’re responsible for paying the staff you’re responsible for their well-being you’re responsible for your patients you’re responsible for providing the best dentistry you’re responsible for being there being present and giving your best whatever you’re going through
andy___chris:
Mm.
dr_richard:
you know huge break up and I still had to turn up to work,
andy___chris:
Yeah,
dr_richard:
you
andy___chris:
yeah.
dr_richard:
know. So I think there’s so many challenges, but you learn and challenges as what makes you. You know, it makes
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
you want to break to you.
andy___chris:
Yeah, yeah,
dr_richard:
And let’s hope
andy___chris:
yeah.
dr_richard:
it makes you. Or more to find is that each thing is a learning experience, you know. It’s okay to go through a struggle and that’s okay. you know, that’s what teaches you,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
you know, all of these things teach you. So I think it’s not to be afraid of that, you know, those difficult things
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
that say that not be afraid of failure, not be afraid of making mistakes, you know, those are important
andy___chris:
But I think that thing,
dr_richard:
things.
andy___chris:
your point you make about loneliness as well. We hear that quite a lot by principles. Who do you talk to? Yeah, it’s hard to know because you don’t want to take it back to your partner because you don’t want to always be talking about work. And so they might not be very interested. No. Brilliant. And I think it’s not a very British thing to kind of talk about problems to the extent that perhaps we should. And I think within a clinical environment, sometimes you need to be very careful and Again, I don’t think we have kind of the culture. So for example, Black Box Sinking, the book by Matthew Syed, where in the aeroplane industry, in the air industry, they share failure. So that everybody in the industry learns together. That doesn’t happen in medicine and within dentistry. So people are quite cautious about who they talk to about things. And I think that kind of brings about a degree of loneliness. So when you end up with a team, I think it does get easier, easier, because you’re kind of in that environment together.
dr_richard:
Yeah, yeah, well imagine, you know, you did 50 different restorations. One of them is going to need root canal. It’s
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
not your fault. Do you know what I mean? And so, and that, that’s really heartbreaking and difficult because the patient’s in pain. Some patients say, I was better before I started, you
andy___chris:
Yeah, yeah.
dr_richard:
know, where everything was fine before, before you got involved.
andy___chris:
Yep.
dr_richard:
But, um,
andy___chris:
Fy ffordd, fy ffordd.
dr_richard:
but I think,
andy___chris:
Rwy’n ddysgu.
dr_richard:
I know exactly, exactly. you know these things are medical procedures and obviously
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
those things gonna happen and we always warn if it’s a deep feeling and we
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
show it’s maybe extra isn’t you know you get better at that as you go along you know and someone who said to me explain everything before you start because it’s an explanation before but after it’s an excuse you know
andy___chris:
It’s a good point. That’s a really good point. If you had to distill down all of your learning through your entrepreneurial journey into one single thing, what would be the one thing you’d want to take with you that you learn through the process?
dr_richard:
I think the important thing is to be true and authentic to yourself. So do something that you authentically do for you, who you, what you believe in. Stay true to your belief as much as you can. And that comes with everything in the work you do. And also how you manage your team. And, you know, you can always do, and short cuts, but if you can just stay true to yourself then that’s a much more fulfilling journey. It might be harder, but in the long run it’s more fulfilling.
andy___chris:
I think that’s great. I think it’s really good. You said something at the beginning, Richard, about you might have been a writer. You actually are, aren’t you? Because in our prep we were talking, and you’ve actually got a book, a fiction book, published on Amazon. So what was that? So what genre was it? What was the book that you wrote?
dr_richard:
Well, it’s quite interesting. My mother has always been really good in terms of English and English literature. One of my sisters actually did an English literature degree in master’s, so there’s something there. And it was some other passion of mine. In my A-levels
andy___chris:
Oh.
dr_richard:
you could choose one other random subject or wild card, you know,
andy___chris:
Bye.
dr_richard:
which actually really helped because it’s about communication
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
and writing and expressing yourself, which I think is really important. And so I had a passion for it, the English language, I loved, you know, all of those things. But this book was actually a fiction book, and it was and, um, And what it is, it’s kind of like a Bond style novel,
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
but turned on its head with the female being the protagonist of this story, which I thought was really interesting because I’m a big Bond fan, but I always did things in those Bond, because it’s of the time, you know, you can take it for what it is, but women were put in a very particular position,
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
I think, you
andy___chris:
Well,
dr_richard:
know,
andy___chris:
the Bond
dr_richard:
in…
andy___chris:
girl is a known phrase, isn’t it?
dr_richard:
Yeah, yeah, so I wanted to really turn that on its head for this novel and that was quite fun. And the difficulty in some ways, that’s like having a strong female character that still people could identify with and you know, that still had a softness and femininity to
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
them. And so that, you know, it’s quite a challenging thing, but also it’s quite a lot of fun.
andy___chris:
Yeah, it’s interesting you say that because obviously since Daniel Craig’s gone and we don’t know who the 007 is going to be but there was lots of talk about whether there’s a possibility of being a female bond. So it’s interesting that you wrote this story and there’s talk about it. I can’t be a female bond.
dr_richard:
The thing is, you know, everyone’s got a different idea of it, but you know, I am a massive fan of Jack Bond anyway. I think it is so cool and it’s really quintessentially, but
andy___chris:
It
dr_richard:
you know,
andy___chris:
is, yeah.
dr_richard:
everyone’s
andy___chris:
It is.
dr_richard:
favorite is Sean Connery, obviously, but I also
andy___chris:
Of
dr_richard:
really
andy___chris:
course,
dr_richard:
like
andy___chris:
of course,
dr_richard:
like
andy___chris:
we
dr_richard:
Roger
andy___chris:
agree,
dr_richard:
Moore.
andy___chris:
we agree on that.
dr_richard:
I like the ones like Roger Moore, who’s kind of half-ridiculous and fun,
andy___chris:
Yeah, yeah,
dr_richard:
you
andy___chris:
he was just like, yeah.
dr_richard:
know, and
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
you know rugged and
andy___chris:
Blimey,
dr_richard:
I think
andy___chris:
you’re
dr_richard:
that’s
andy___chris:
covering
dr_richard:
really
andy___chris:
all your
dr_richard:
cool
andy___chris:
bases, aren’t you? Did you do any
dr_richard:
yeah
andy___chris:
of their teeth, Richard? That’s the
dr_richard:
that’s the thing
andy___chris:
question. Do you want to mention Pierce Bosnian in there somewhere? Or
dr_richard:
I’m
andy___chris:
the
dr_richard:
a diplomat
andy___chris:
one George
dr_richard:
you
andy___chris:
Lazenby?
dr_richard:
see
andy___chris:
George
dr_richard:
I’m a diplomat
andy___chris:
Lazenby? The one Shaefer George Lazenby. Yeah,
dr_richard:
okay
andy___chris:
Casino Royale.
dr_richard:
Sean Connery is still the best
andy___chris:
He is. He is. Richard has been wonderful talking to you. We always finish up in the same way. We’d like to ask our guests the same two questions and the first one we have for you is if you could be the fly on a wall in a situation, where would you like to take yourself to?
dr_richard:
Hmm,
andy___chris:
Is it going to be a bond?
dr_richard:
it’s a really interesting question and obviously this would be something perhaps a past situation. One of the moments that I’m really interested in film, old film and things like that. So I think that moment where Marilyn Monroe was singing Happy Birthday to JFK
andy___chris:
Yes.
dr_richard:
and the awkwardness
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
because you can fly off.
andy___chris:
You can, yeah, when he gets talkered you can leave.
dr_richard:
But I think that’s a real moment in history and you know it’s an amazing
andy___chris:
Ha!
dr_richard:
moment and you know there’s lots of interest in Marilyn at this time the documentary and it’s just these characters are so large in life
andy___chris:
Yeah,
dr_richard:
and
andy___chris:
it’s amazing
dr_richard:
you know
andy___chris:
the interest still in her, isn’t it? What a fairly recent film, isn’t there that’s not been out so long about her? Yeah, it’s phenomenal that she’s got such an impact on the world still. And I suppose because of the connection to the Kennedys and everything else and the circumstances
dr_richard:
Yeah,
andy___chris:
in which she died.
dr_richard:
I also loved Jackie Kennedy, so I can
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
see the
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
dichotomy and pain in that.
andy___chris:
Yeah, yeah, wonderful, wonderful. And the last one is if you could meet somebody, if you’re going to do the opportunity to sit down and have a coffee or a glass of wine with somebody, who would you like to meet?
dr_richard:
So this is a current figure I’m thinking of. Somebody who I really think is amazing is Obama.
andy___chris:
Okay.
dr_richard:
I know it’s a kind of random or interesting one, but I just think it was so groundbreaking and he was such an amazing speaker, really
andy___chris:
He
dr_richard:
inspirational.
andy___chris:
is.
dr_richard:
He
andy___chris:
He
dr_richard:
got the
andy___chris:
is.
dr_richard:
whole crowd on his side kind of authoritative and demanding of respect and at the same time he’s kind of the humble one with the people and down with it
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
you know what I
andy___chris:
Normal
dr_richard:
mean so
andy___chris:
guy.
dr_richard:
yeah I have a huge respect you know a lot of people said his political time is very difficult because you know
andy___chris:
Hmm.
dr_richard:
he couldn’t necessarily do all of the things that he wanted to do but my feelings is the attention were there you know he wanted to give health care to people I mean
andy___chris:
So he wanted
dr_richard:
that
andy___chris:
to
dr_richard:
to
andy___chris:
buy
dr_richard:
me
andy___chris:
my kid.
dr_richard:
shows
andy___chris:
Yeah.
dr_richard:
enough you know
andy___chris:
Yeah. I read
dr_richard:
that
andy___chris:
his
dr_richard:
he is for carrying writing
andy___chris:
yeah, I
dr_richard:
class.
andy___chris:
read his autobiography or the half that’s out And I think he does I think he deeply cares about the things that matter to him and people But you’re you’re spot on as a speaker You can just YouTube in and listen to him for hours because he’s amazing. Absolutely amazing And he’s got a good sense of humor. He does
dr_richard:
Exactly, which is always
andy___chris:
He does
dr_richard:
important. Thank you so much. Yes, got to run.
andy___chris:
your patients to see us. Yeah, thank you very much. Keep well and hopefully we’ll be catch up very soon. We’ll see you around.
dr_richard:
Thank you.
andy___chris:
Lovely, cheers for your shit.
dr_richard:
Oh
