Dentology Podcast with Roy Bennett

Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Roy Bennett

Episode Release Date – Monday 22 July 2024

Andy & Chris (00:00.53)
Here we are podcast recording. Another lovely day of podcast recording with more interesting guests who are going to blow our socks off with stories. Absolutely, absolutely. And I’m looking forward to today. So today we’re very fortunate. We have Dr. Roy Bennett joining us. Roy’s dentist, course director at Mellow Dental, an IV sedation accredited training company, and also a lecturer. Welcome Roy, how are you doing? Interesting.

Roy Bennett (00:24.766)
I’m great guys, thanks for inviting me.

Andy & Chris (00:27.282)
No, not at all. We’re looking forward to the conversation. We haven’t had a sedationist before, have we? We haven’t. We haven’t, yes. You’re our first sedationist. Look at that. We’ve got… are you? we’ve had a hypnotist. that’s interesting. Yes. Yeah.

Roy Bennett (00:34.846)
Well, I’m not just a sedationist, I’m a hypnotist as well. So I know Sharon, she’s a friend of mine. Sharon’s a good friend of mine. And I learned from Sharon actually over the years. So when we do my teaching, we talk about that. And then we put a slide up and we say, how many milligrams of drugs do you think I’ve given this patient? And they all go, about five or 10. And I go, zero. I’ve just talked to them.

Andy & Chris (00:47.602)
okay.

wow.

Andy & Chris (00:58.834)
Hehehehe.

It is fascinating, isn’t it? I mean, we’ve had Sharon on twice now, I think, and she’s, it is fascinating. And I just hope then, Roy, that you’re not going to put us to sleep. You must have heard that joke so many times. I mean, we’ll get into the bones of the conversation a bit, but on that particular point.

Roy Bennett (01:10.33)
Well, I’ve tried not to, but I’ve tried so many times.

Andy & Chris (01:21.586)
Where you’ve got hypnosis and sedation, is it as much to do with the mindset of the patient as to whether they’re more receptive to hypnosis and if not, then they kind of, sedation’s more appropriate. How do you kind of delineate between which, or isn’t it as simple as that?

Roy Bennett (01:37.79)
So, yeah, so when you meet somebody, you have to obviously gain rapport with them and chat to them and work out what kind of personality they are. So basically you’re trying to tailor the treatment plan to them as everything in dentistry. If you want to be successful, you need to, whether it’s implants or whatever, you’ve got to tailor that psychological plan for the patient. So you’ve got to really listen quite carefully to what the patient’s expectations are.

Andy & Chris (01:43.57)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (01:47.378)
Yep.

Andy & Chris (01:53.234)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Roy Bennett (02:06.878)
what their requests are and then decide which route we’re going to go down. Now some people don’t want to be pharmacologically sedated, they just want to feel relaxed. So we’ll just talk to them and give them some nice imagery and put some music on and etc. And that’s sort of Sharon’s approach, you know, with the hypnotherapy. But I also combine the hypnotherapy with the pharmacological aspect, which means I use less drugs then, you see.

Andy & Chris (02:14.802)
What?

Andy & Chris (02:25.17)
Yep.

Roy Bennett (02:34.174)
So that’s just, it’s just tailoring and listening carefully to what the patient’s about.

Andy & Chris (02:38.418)
so there’s actually a hybrid then. There’s at one end just using the hypnosis. At the other end, there’s purely pharmacology with sedation, but there’s actually a mid -ground as well where you can relax people with less drugs. That’s interesting.

Roy Bennett (02:43.07)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Roy Bennett (02:51.486)
Yeah, because the Greeks called it hypnos, which means relaxation. So the drug companies came along and used hypnoval as a benzodiazepine, you see. So that drug opens up the mind and then makes people more sort of open -minded about suggestion. Yeah, well, sort of a little bit like that.

Andy & Chris (02:59.986)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (03:04.05)
Bye.

Andy & Chris (03:14.994)
Right. Sounds like a truth drug. So we’re back to, I expect you to die Mr Bond.

Roy Bennett (03:26.622)
After you paid the bill.

Andy & Chris (03:29.618)
Yes, yeah. So now we’re all in a very relaxed state. Yeah, mellow. Which is a good place to start. I see where the mellow comes from. So now we can move on to you as being our specialist subject. So you’ve been in practice for 36 years, which is some stretch, and you say you still love it. Before we get into the dental side, can you just give us a sense of your upbringing, your childhood, your background? How did it all start for Roy?

Roy Bennett (03:34.398)
I’m gonna go again.

Roy Bennett (03:55.102)
Okay, so background brought up, you know, working class background, Liverpool, my father, this is how I really got into dentistry, was a dental technician. So he sort of introduced me to the world of dentistry, and I actually worked with him when I was in my teenage years in his lab. So I sort of got used to being around teeth, as it were, in that sense. And then I was lucky enough, really, for my

Andy & Chris (04:05.074)
okay.

Andy & Chris (04:14.514)
Alright.

Roy Bennett (04:23.55)
dentist to be a great communicator, a really nice chap, really empathetic type of person.

And I thought, wow, you know, he really does change people’s lives. This guy. And I just found the whole thing just sort of self -sufficient. I thought running a business sounds good. Running, you know, having a great team with you. He always had a great team. He was a great leader. And it was somebody just for me to aspire to when I was about 18, I think. So it was really motivating that this guy was. And so that’s when that was my introduction into sort of dentistry. I almost diverted into.

Andy & Chris (04:44.37)
Mmm.

Andy & Chris (04:50.802)
Wow.

Roy Bennett (05:01.168)
pharmacology. I decided to pull away from that and then I thought, because obviously I liked, I was interested about all the things that drugs do and medicines and everything, but I thought I could combine the two in dentistry, you see.

Andy & Chris (05:02.514)
Right.

Andy & Chris (05:14.45)
I was just laughing, he’s got an interest in drugs. As a teenager, it just made me giggle, sorry, right? But very intuitive as an 18 year old to tap into your dentist, good communication skills, the importance of communication.

Roy Bennett (05:17.694)
I’m sorry.

I’m not well -keen.

Andy & Chris (05:33.778)
and seeing that as something that you’d like to do with patients in a clinical setting. That seems quite an advanced thinking for an 18 year old to tap into that as being an important part of the career of dentistry.

Roy Bennett (05:41.822)
Yeah.

Roy Bennett (05:46.782)
Yeah, and people say that you can be a born communicator or a good with people. Now there’s a little bit of that, but I think you can learn so much more. And that’s probably at university where that was lacking a little bit, where I think the undergraduates really do need like a module on psychology.

Andy & Chris (05:52.818)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (05:57.746)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Andy & Chris (06:08.978)
It must make you a good dentist communicator because you, especially with your lab, just thinking that you know from the point of the lab of how much hassle a bad impression is or what, you know, do you know what I mean? So therefore you must have been able to effectively almost reverse that and say, look, I know that if we provide rubbish, then we’re going to get poor, poor, crowns or whatever, because it’s our fault.

Roy Bennett (06:20.638)
absolutely.

Roy Bennett (06:29.694)
Yeah.

Yeah, well, you see that word fault. So my father sat me down when I was sort of 18. He said, before you go to dental school, sit in the lab in the crown and bridge lab for a day and watch all the stuff come in and they’ll explain to you what’s good and what’s not so good. And basically he would say, you know, this lab will do this and how they communicate with the clinicians and all the clinicians that came in and blamed the technician.

Andy & Chris (06:49.138)
That’s brilliant.

Andy & Chris (06:59.922)
Yeah, yeah.

Roy Bennett (07:01.406)
that relation you know is soured quite quickly. So I always held my technician in you know in quite high esteem because it’s teamwork isn’t it at the end of the day.

Andy & Chris (07:08.69)
Hmm.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. It’s that whole mindset thing about it. It’s not my fault, but it’s my responsibility. So Frank Taylor, when we bought the business from Frank, Frank used to do a lot of courses for dentists. And he used to say, you’re telling patients that this crown is an intricate piece of work and it’s a piece of jewelry and it’s made specifically for you. And then he said, he used to say, and you took such a bad impression.

Roy Bennett (07:14.974)
Yeah. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (07:39.25)
that when it comes back from the lab, you’re then having to cut chunks out of it with your drill to make it fit. And he used to say, if you spend your time getting the impression right and dealing with your lab, then you’ll end up with a superb tooth that will fit. And that’s, I think, was missed. And I think it’s brilliant, the fact that you were able to have that foot in both sides of the camp, really.

Roy Bennett (08:00.254)
Yeah, and you can’t be a great working relationship with your clinicians and your technicians and your team. It really does fall apart quite quickly otherwise.

Andy & Chris (08:08.114)
Mmm.

You touched on dental school then, voice, saying…

how it would be great if the young undergraduates had a session on communication and that was kind of core to what they do. What was your dental school experience like? Because it was a couple of years ago now, wasn’t it? And it would just be interesting to get a sense of what your experience is like and how prepared you felt to be a dentist when you came out of dental school. Because we’ve got quite a few young dentists that listen to this. Ye olde dental school. Where did you go, Roy?

Roy Bennett (08:29.566)
Yeah.

Roy Bennett (08:39.646)
Yeah. It was quite brutal. Liverpool. Yeah, winter. It was quite brutal in a way, but I quite enjoyed it because I was quite sort of driven to not fail, sort of fail my A levels first time, retook and that’s I’m never going to fail again. So I was quite motivated that way. But.

Andy & Chris (08:46.098)
I’ll you ex lupo.

Roy Bennett (09:05.982)
It was a bit like being in the armed forces a bit, I guess, because my experience is I used to be in the sort of TA equivalent of the Royal Navy. So I did that for five years and I quite liked the structure, quite liked the way that the clinicians pushed you. But now it’s quite softer in the approach, I think. And I think we were a lot of our colleagues I speak to of those days say that we were.

Andy & Chris (09:10.034)
Wow.

Andy & Chris (09:24.53)
Mmm.

Roy Bennett (09:34.59)
built for the trenches in a way. And that’s quite a statement, isn’t it? So I think our resilience was quite strong. Our internal sort of clocks, if you like, were strong. And when we came across adversity, we sort of could cope with that. I think.

Andy & Chris (09:36.722)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Andy & Chris (09:43.698)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (09:53.874)
Suddenly made me sorry. I was gonna say it suddenly made me think about do you remember that TV show life on Mars where we went back into the 70s and then ashes to ashes where it was the 80s and I was thinking it suddenly made me think I hadn’t really thought about it before but the attitudes of your lecturers were probably supremely different than they are now.

Roy Bennett (10:14.91)
absolutely and but you know we did respect them and you know you learn what you learn so I was quite happy in that environment I was quite like the structure not everybody did but I think you’re looking back now I think it made us really good clinicians to be honest.

Andy & Chris (10:30.738)
Do you think better or worse than now?

Roy Bennett (10:36.862)
I think there’s a happy medium. I think there’s a happy medium, I guess. And our exposure to clinical environment was quite extensive. Obviously compared to the undergraduates that come out now, it’s more risk averse, it’s more avoidance, it’s more… And obviously there’s that caveat of the GDC, isn’t there? And the concerns out there, which we didn’t have then. Because the GDC…

Andy & Chris (10:40.114)
Right.

Andy & Chris (10:46.802)
Right.

Andy & Chris (10:52.186)
Hmm. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (10:59.698)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (11:03.442)
Did you do, I spoke to a dentist who was significantly older than you and I mean he’s been, I think he’s only practised for nearly 50 years and it’s an interesting one. He said to me when they qualified they basically took them to different parts of the hospital so as that you would see different, not just dentistry, did they do that with you or?

Roy Bennett (11:25.01)
Yeah, we got exposure to weekends at the local hospital and being on call with the medics and seeing various things. I thought it was quite good actually.

Andy & Chris (11:36.466)
Yeah, because they don’t I don’t think they do that now do that. I don’t honestly know But he was saying it gave him a great education and an appreciation of the other parts of of medicine not just your mouth

Roy Bennett (11:39.39)
I’m not aware of that, no.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, no, exactly. The holistic sort of approach, yeah. So although it was tough in inverted commas, I felt we came out, I felt I came out a better person for it. And therefore when I stumbled, as we all do, you could put yourself off and carry on again. And I think the important thing was to speak to your colleagues and…

Andy & Chris (11:52.658)
Mmm.

Andy & Chris (12:03.25)
Yeah

Roy Bennett (12:13.182)
We’d meet up years after on the old Section 63 things. As long as you talked about your failures, that was the main thing.

Andy & Chris (12:18.706)
Andy & Chris (12:22.674)
Yeah, yeah, rather than hiding. That’s something that I think generally dentistry and the medical profession isn’t particularly I think most people Yeah, well, I think I think you’ve got captured really well by Matthew side in the book black box thinking when he talked about the Aircraft industry where if they have a failure it gets shared across the whole industry immediately and I

Roy Bennett (12:37.598)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Roy Bennett (12:43.422)
Yeah, and there’s no blame.

Andy & Chris (12:45.554)
And I think dentistry is particularly poor at people talking about when things go wrong. And it’s a real shame because, you know, there’s a phrase, learn from your mistakes, but you can also learn from other people’s mistakes as well. And that tends not to happen so much.

Roy Bennett (12:57.63)
Absolutely. And I was teaching in Birmingham yesterday and I said to the group, you know, you know, I’m going to share some stories with you about all my failures because that’s where we’re going to learn the most actually. So, you know, I’m putting myself up there and saying, you know, please learn from me of what I’ve done over the last 36 years. And because everybody goes through it and I think it’s…

Andy & Chris (13:11.058)
Mmm.

Andy & Chris (13:15.954)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (13:21.298)
And I think the thing is, when you’ve got the experience and the confidence like you do, it’s easier to say because you’ve had success. It’s quite often it’s the younger people in their early stages of their career, something doesn’t go well. I think, geez, I’m an idiot. I’ve done it wrong. And it’s a shame.

Roy Bennett (13:36.158)
Yeah, and what those people need, and I was lucky enough to have this, as we all do it in life, it was a really good mentor. So you just need one or two people in your life that you can discuss things privately with and say, you know, I’m off the wavelength here, what’s going on, what’s going wrong? Am I doing this right in my career? So I was lucky enough that I had a couple of people like that.

Andy & Chris (13:45.65)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Andy & Chris (13:56.498)
Yeah

Yeah.

Roy Bennett (14:04.19)
which I’ll be always grateful for, you know.

Andy & Chris (14:06.482)
Yeah, very valuable. Do you still have school reunions with your mates in dental school?

Roy Bennett (14:10.59)
yeah, we tend to have like a 10 year reunion one, which is, which is quite nice. Yeah. So we do, we do, we do all keep in touch and we all sort of ski together about 10 of us, which is quite nice as well. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (14:15.186)
Yeah, well. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (14:23.282)
nice. that’s really cool isn’t it? I haven’t ever had one school reunion. I think it was like after we’d left about five years and loads of people went back just to be nosy. To see you know to see how much weight people had put on whether they still had their hair and what jobs they were doing and then it never happened again. That was it.

Roy Bennett (14:32.834)
I’m sorry.

And the best advice after I finished dental school on the last day and the professor said to me, I said, I said, Prof, can you just give me some decent advice before I set out into the big white world? He said, never work a Friday. I thought.

Andy & Chris (14:57.33)
Wow, good advice. Well, you heard it here if you heard it here chaps on Dentology podcast Stop working Fridays for goodness sake Good advice Roy can ask you a question, you know, you were you said you did that the Royal Navy Reserve or whatever that was Did you were you ever tempted to go into dentistry in the Royal Navy or was?

Roy Bennett (15:12.35)
Yeah. Yeah.

Roy Bennett (15:18.366)
That’s how I was, I was a dental officer in the hour and hour, yeah.

Andy & Chris (15:20.498)
right, but you never thought about then turning it into a career as such.

Roy Bennett (15:24.606)
No, and it’s something that I could have done. Some of my colleagues did do that. They did what in those days, what was called short career commissions of five years or eight years. And I’d highly, you know, I highly recommend that. It’s a great platform for a young, you know, graduate to start in, in a sort of a protected environment as well. Yeah, they do all that. And it’s not as intense in your first years in practice.

Andy & Chris (15:28.69)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (15:33.106)
yeah, yeah, I remember that short -term commission, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andy & Chris (15:46.194)
get to travel.

Roy Bennett (15:53.022)
So I think I sort of combined it with practice at the same time, you know, weekends away and stuff, but really enjoyed it, yeah.

Andy & Chris (15:57.106)
Alright.

Andy & Chris (16:02.002)
And then back in 1995, which is 29 years ago, you did something quite remarkable. You quit the NHS and you became private. And lots of people listening to this today will think like, yeah, sure, what’s the big deal? But back when you did it, there weren’t that many pure private dentists and pure private practices. So what was your reasoning and decision making to do that sort of nearly 30 years ago?

Roy Bennett (16:10.91)
Yeah.

Roy Bennett (16:18.718)
Yeah.

Roy Bennett (16:28.574)
self -preservation. To be honest, insight into my brain, which was, I’m not going to stick this out. So if I carry on in a regimentated sort of closed end system, even then, and that was item of service, which some people, yeah, so people look back at some of that as a golden period. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (16:30.802)
Even back then.

Andy & Chris (16:44.282)
Mmm. That’s as nice as a service, wasn’t it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The more you do, the more you’re paid.

Roy Bennett (16:54.206)
Well, exactly, but it wasn’t that kind of game for me. It was having sort of meeting patients, you know, doing the best for them, not being restricted by prior approval, sort of giving the patients the time they needed. And they didn’t have that time in the system that we had. So it was either I wasn’t going to last and burn out, which I’d be on that treadmill, as people call it.

Andy & Chris (17:06.738)
Mm -hmm.

Andy & Chris (17:17.714)
Mm -hmm.

Roy Bennett (17:21.438)
But it was a psychological thing for me, I think. I just didn’t have the time with the patients to spend with them. And there’s no funding for that. So.

Andy & Chris (17:25.778)
I’m intrigued. Was there a conflict for you in the sense that you talked about how much you enjoyed the regimented process of dental school? Obviously there’s a regimented structure that goes through the Royal Navy and there is a regimented structure that goes through the NHS. So when you left, notwithstanding all you said about not having the time,

Was it, did it feel quite an exposure to leave the NXS and then suddenly not have this regimented structure that you needed to work to, that you were now in control of how you determine your future?

Roy Bennett (18:01.662)
No, because before I sort of jumped ship, if you like, I met various inspiring people from across the water in America. And they’d come over to speak, probably about 89, 90. And I’d listen to these guys and they’d just set up practices with like three hygienists in America. And…

Andy & Chris (18:08.946)
Mm -hmm.

Andy & Chris (18:23.41)
Mm.

Roy Bennett (18:25.726)
were making successful living. So I just sort of followed that path really. I thought, they can do it, I can do it.

Andy & Chris (18:29.65)
Well.

Are you married? How was your wife when you said that?

Roy Bennett (18:34.11)
Yes, still. Well, to be honest, she wanted me in one piece. So, you know, she could see the stress that’s involved in, you know, running a business that is dictated to by, you know, third party partners. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (18:43.058)
Okay, so emotionally she thought, yeah.

Andy & Chris (18:52.818)
Yeah, someone else, yeah. It’s quite remarkable that you identified this.

29 years ago and make those changes. To have that foresight to preserve yourself, which I’m sure has a massive impact on the fact that you still are so energetic and still enjoying what you’re doing so many years later. And I do wonder whether there’s other people listening to this who feel they’re shackled to the NHS in some way or other. And you’re showing that there’s a path, you can do it another way. And you did it back at a time when it wasn’t as easy to deliver a private identity. It wasn’t, yeah, not at all.

Roy Bennett (18:59.966)
Yeah. Yeah.

Roy Bennett (19:18.974)
Yeah. Yeah.

Roy Bennett (19:27.166)
Yeah, but don’t forget, you know, in London and Manchester and Liverpool, there were still private practitioners in the 60s. And in fact, one of my patients was one of those guys. And he, we used to work in Rodney Street in Liverpool and was, he knew that he was setting himself aside, but it’s the way he worked and I felt a similar thing. So I think it’s actually, it’s a bit of an easier route for people now than it was then.

Andy & Chris (19:28.592)
Thanks for watching.

Andy & Chris (19:34.866)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (19:56.274)
Definitely.

Roy Bennett (19:56.99)
It’s more sort of accepted in public, not because of the politics, just because you can actually go and set up a squat practice now and open the doors and not have an NHS contract and survive.

Andy & Chris (20:02.514)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Well, it reminds me, I know we were speaking before, but I remember when I think I was involved in dentistry, which was in mid 80s, and then we had the new old new contract in 90, then the fee cut in 92. And I remember people were embarrassed to say they were private, weren’t they? So they did this, I’m independent of the health service. I remember that was the phrase in that people used to say, because they didn’t like the stigma that went with being a private dentist.

Roy Bennett (20:35.614)
Yeah, and I did take political flak from patients and everything, but it’s either me, it’s going to work or it’s not going to work. That’s what I saw quite early on. I could never work in a mixed practice because I couldn’t justify to myself the different levels of care. And I understand why a lot of people do that because the business model and, you know, it’s to…

Andy & Chris (20:40.242)
I bet you did.

Andy & Chris (20:45.138)
Mm. Mm.

Andy & Chris (20:54.93)
Hmm.

Roy Bennett (21:00.83)
to have your foot in both camps is quite business savvy and I get that. But just personally for me it didn’t work and I just felt it was a clean break for me.

Andy & Chris (21:08.85)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (21:13.234)
Hmm. Right, yeah. I say ballsy move though. Because what was it, 95 wasn’t it? Yeah, 95 was a ballsy move.

Roy Bennett (21:17.53)
Well, yeah, I started privately about 89, but I committed to my full list in 95. But I was lucky enough to work with some principals who could see that I was quite dedicated and looking after the patients. And they sort of let me do that gradually. And then I joined in the practice, which was fully private.

So, and the other thing that I would say is that the psychology of treating anxious patients and setting the NHS aside, that’s the reason I sort of went down the path of hypnosis and sedation and anxiety, sort of, because I needed those tools to try and sort of look after myself and my team because my…

Andy & Chris (21:55.666)
Mmm. Mmm.

Roy Bennett (22:06.814)
team was getting burnt out by all these anxious people coming in, then we were, and then we were attracting more and more anxious people and more phobic people. So it became a successful sedation practice.

Andy & Chris (22:09.746)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (22:13.618)
Ha ha.

Andy & Chris (22:19.026)
Yeah, you started the sedation kind of the training side of things back in 2010, but then about 14 years ago, you got involved in the special care side of dentistry through hospitals. What was the link between those activities? Did they kind of all come together at some time?

Roy Bennett (22:26.782)
Yeah.

Roy Bennett (22:40.222)
Yeah, so my mentor that invited me back into the hospital as a undergraduate and postgraduate teacher, because I’ve done about 15 years in practice, and then I thought I just want something slightly different in the week. I’d spend my Wednesdays in special care dentistry in Liverpool and got to be involved with some great people, got to be involved with cases that you would never do in practice.

Andy & Chris (22:54.098)
Mm -hmm.

Roy Bennett (23:08.382)
So obviously that gave me a broad spectrum to sort of paint that picture, that palette, if you like, of all that experience and then transfer that into experience and then teaching outside. So I teach at the hospital and I teach practitioners outside and then I felt I could set the company up and do that from experience.

Andy & Chris (23:08.674)
Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm.

Andy & Chris (23:30.926)
It’s quite interesting listening to you talk. You’ve got a very mellow relaxed voice. Don’t you think so? Yeah, it’s it’s obviously part of it’s interesting in my head. I’m thinking was that Roy?

Roy Bennett (23:37.726)
I’m out.

Andy & Chris (23:44.466)
Has that always been Roy? So therefore the extension of Roy makes an obvious one going into hypnosis, sedation and relaxing. Or have you morphed by doing it for so long that you’ve become that relaxing person? Just listening to your voice. If anyone that you know, you guys listen to, you’ll get what I mean in the fact of you could probably do the Matthew McConaughey, read your book story or something and put people to sleep. And I don’t mean that rudely, but make them relax.

Roy Bennett (23:58.682)
Yeah. Yeah.

Roy Bennett (24:08.702)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I’m trying to relax people and avoid conflict in the clinical area and sort of make them comfortable. And I think that language of hypnosis and all that sedation just makes the patient feel so much better. And it makes the day go better for your team and the session and everything, you know. So that was a natural fit for me.

Andy & Chris (24:37.554)
Yeah, yeah, so it sounds it What you like to do what you like to argue with or you just like one of those really irritating people who just is so calm and measured But it’s like i’ll forget this ain’t roger cross

Roy Bennett (24:38.494)
Okay, that’s it.

Roy Bennett (24:44.83)
I don’t think I’d make a good politician though.

Andy & Chris (24:53.426)
When we talk about sedation boy, people immediately jump to it being a help to anxious patients.

But lots of the things you talked about in terms of making people more relaxed, this doesn’t necessarily just for anxious patients. I guess every patient will benefit from being more relaxed when they’re in the chair. So what’s the sliding scale of where sedation fits? I know we touched on this at the beginning.

Roy Bennett (25:16.894)
Yeah.

Roy Bennett (25:23.39)
Yeah, so evidence -based approach always. So when somebody comes in, we’ll sort of assess the patient and say, you know, what’s their triggers, what’s their fears? Obviously, 50 % of the population around don’t enjoy going to the dentist, but we can usually do that with just being nice to the patient and looking after the patient and nice surroundings and everything.

The other 50 % of that 50%, you’ll break it down. Usually about 12 % will need some kind of aid, whether it’s pharmacological or hypnosis or something like that to get them through the procedure. What we’re finding more and more now in current dentistry is longer appointments are quite tiring for patients and they’re having several implants in and zygomas and whatever over two or three hours, then that’s quite a lot of trauma and that’s quite a lot of…

Andy & Chris (26:12.722)
Mm -hmm.

Roy Bennett (26:13.79)
It’s a long journey for that patient because they’ll be in the practice for several hours. So one of the justifications for sort of putting that forward to the patient is let’s make that journey a bit easier for you. So a lot of my peripatetic work is sort of visiting other practices involved in helping those patients. So not just in my own practice, but in practices around the Northwest. OK, so we’ll go in and I’ll meet the patient for the first time, get some rapport.

Andy & Chris (26:16.018)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (26:24.626)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (26:30.322)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (26:37.458)
Well.

Roy Bennett (26:41.854)
guide them through the appointment and I’ll spend the day with the patient while the surgeons do all the work.

Andy & Chris (26:45.69)
Hmm. That’s interesting. And is it also a practice -based philosophy as well? Because there’s no point in having a highly strong, intense patient lounge where the receptionist is a bit on it and then suddenly they walk into your surgery and suddenly it’s all mellow. So is it a philosophy that has to flow through the whole practice for it to truly work for the patient?

Roy Bennett (27:04.222)
Absolutely.

Roy Bennett (27:12.03)
Yeah, absolutely. Everybody’s got to be on the bus. It’s like everything in team building, isn’t it? You’re right from the receptionist from the first phone call. It’s a lot of training behind the scenes of the language that you use. For example, when we get a new sort of dental care professional nurse that comes into the team, the first thing I’ll say to the nurse is like, don’t ask them if they’re OK.

Andy & Chris (27:14.578)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (27:24.082)
Mmm. Mmm.

Andy & Chris (27:40.658)
Mm.

Roy Bennett (27:41.022)
the procedure don’t ask them if they’re okay just ask them if they’re comfortable or not. So language is really really important and obviously yeah yeah so absolutely so you can absolutely say the wrong thing to the wrong person at the wrong time so even when patients are sedated pharmacologically we know it’s really important that you say the right things at the right time okay.

Andy & Chris (27:43.386)
subtle difference yeah

I remember Sharon saying that. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (28:07.506)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah, but I think like I said, I think controlling that whole environment. So when you do your IV sedation training and I understand that there is a clinical element to this procedure, is that focused purely with a clinician or does the wider team come on that training or is there kind of team -based training that goes alongside that? Right. Yeah.

Roy Bennett (28:30.302)
So mainly clinical, so it’ll be the dentists and the nurses, right? But if I visit a practice, I’ll always start to include the people around that, the receptionists, the practice manager. So they get insight into the patient’s journey because it can turn out, strangely, that sometimes it might be the practice manager or the receptionist that is quite phobic about dentistry. And I think that’s…

Andy & Chris (28:45.938)
about you.

Andy & Chris (28:55.922)
Are they passing it on?

Roy Bennett (28:58.494)
and can actually throw off a negative connotation on phone calls and you’d be surprised wouldn’t you? So, and then because the way you’re brought up and the way you visit the dentist has that impact when you get to six or seven and then it’ll stay with you. And when we have to… Absolutely. And so somebody can have a bit, a little bit of trauma and then I’ll just carry it with them you see.

Andy & Chris (29:01.618)
No.

Yeah.

Andy & Chris (29:12.166)
Mmm. Mmm. And we pick up on those subtle things, don’t we, as well?

Andy & Chris (29:24.306)
I suppose it’s that thing, isn’t it? You’re going to have an implant and someone goes, and that’s it. You’re done. thank you. You sucked your teeth in. So that means obviously it’s going to be painful or expensive or both.

Roy Bennett (29:28.318)
Yeah.

Roy Bennett (29:31.838)
Yeah.

Ha ha ha ha ha

Andy & Chris (29:38.13)
But also I think there’s a wider context to the importance of this, not necessarily just in an easing the patient, but good communication skills. We know and we hear that the majority of cases that come before the GDC are steeped back in a communication failure of some sort with the patient. It doesn’t mean that things didn’t go wrong, but it was how it was communicated and dealt with at that time. So I guess a lot of what you’re doing as well is helping practices and clinicians improve their communication skills, which perhaps

Roy Bennett (30:01.598)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (30:08.084)
indirect effect that it means it’s a less risky business for them to be in, in terms of potentially coming across the table of the GDC.

Roy Bennett (30:13.181)
Yeah, and we, yeah, and we spent, I spent a good hour on my lecture day on that actually. And it’s, and it’s sort of focusing on, you know, what you’re saying to the patients and it’s sort of setting the scene before they have the treatment and finding out the expectations and the needs of the patient. Okay. So it’s more about sort of no surprises for anybody. That’s the way, that’s what we want. No surprises.

Andy & Chris (30:25.042)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (30:34.642)
Hmm.

Andy & Chris (30:38.542)
It’s nuts really isn’t it when you think about it when you think a dentist’s job, you know, let’s say they work eight hours a day. Most of it is they’re going to be communicating with a patient and their team either verbally or non -verbally and there’s absolutely no training.

on how to do it. It is mad, isn’t it? Have you ever tried to sort of get your contacts in university to bring you in for sort of like sessions during their graduation or their learning period, shall I say?

Roy Bennett (31:14.046)
I, yeah, to be honest, I think it would be good, but I think the curriculum is so condensed and busy that it is hard for those guys to do that. I think it’s on the impetus of the, you know, the new postgraduate to seek that kind of information. And there are various people that you’ve had on that I’ve listened to that have gone down that path and have now become sort of communicator trainers for practises.

Andy & Chris (31:32.05)
Mmm. Mmm.

Andy & Chris (31:41.746)
Yeah, yeah.

Roy Bennett (31:42.622)
and I can think of one or two people that you’ve interviewed and I’ve listened to those people as well. So I’ve always had a hunger or a thirst for more knowledge. And I think if you can make your team happier and you can make the day go easier, why wouldn’t you want to do that? And make it, it’s just quite simple.

Andy & Chris (31:45.522)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (31:52.146)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (31:59.986)
Yeah.

Very good question. Very good question. Yeah. Yeah. And I think sometimes I think when you get to a position of being a principal or a leader in your business, I think it’s sometimes easier to have that helicopter view of saying, well, why wouldn’t we do this? It’s important. And I think sometimes as an associate, as a dentist who’s a clinician, I don’t think it’s always as easy to say because it’s about you as a person, you and your team. So I think you’re thinking on a wider context.

Roy Bennett (32:05.502)
Okay.

Roy Bennett (32:27.966)
Yeah. Well, I sort of, yeah, I sort of, let’s put that in context. I sort of disagree with you slightly there because I think any associate can make their immediate environment much, much happier, better with their, with their nurse. And you know what I mean? I don’t, I don’t think it’s always down to the leader or the principal. I think you’ve got to do this yourself. and then you have to think, do I fit into this practice? If that’s not the case.

Andy & Chris (32:32.052)
Ahem.

Andy & Chris (32:43.986)
I agree with you.

Andy & Chris (32:49.626)
Hmm. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (32:55.314)
Mmm

Roy Bennett (32:56.83)
And then you maybe have to be ballsy if you want to call it that way and then move on to the right environment with you. So you can’t change people, but you can change yourself and you can adapt and you can change things about yourself. And if you’re happier, then that’s the right way to go, isn’t it?

Andy & Chris (33:01.682)
Somewhere else.

Andy & Chris (33:08.978)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (33:16.226)
Sorry, out of interest, obviously you’ve been training people for a long period of time. Have you noticed a difference in the dentist that you train now to you used to train?

Roy Bennett (33:30.27)
I think there’s a more inherent fear of litigation. I get asked a lot about that and they like to understand what’s happened with the failures to me or near misses if you want to call it. And they’re quite scribbling down everything about that and I do feel for them because of all the note taking and the traps that they feel they could fall into. So there is that anxiety if you like.

Andy & Chris (33:55.442)
Mmm.

Andy & Chris (33:59.442)
Mmm.

Roy Bennett (34:00.222)
in the profession and I hope that we can resolve that in the future with the higher authorities because to me the pendulum has swung too much the other way now.

Andy & Chris (34:11.602)
Yeah.

You hope, don’t you? Also, I mean, we see some of the technological advances with, you know, dictation and you sort of hope that I sort of think to myself that I’m sort of really positive that I think most dentists want to do a really good job and want to communicate. The problem is sometimes they forget to write their notes and aren’t very good at that bit. And that’s where they sort of get caught out. And I sort of think if if they could get themselves just feeling a conversation with someone when they explain something that was recorded, they might feel better.

Roy Bennett (34:43.038)
it.

Andy & Chris (34:43.092)
about it than to write a note about it if that makes sense.

Roy Bennett (34:45.438)
Yeah, but you know, all problems are in the absence of a good conversation, aren’t they, as I’ve said, aren’t they? So and often it’s the preamble to the treatment, to the sedation, laying the ground, laying the foundations that sort those problems out. Because occasionally my, you know, my nurse who’s highly trained will say, Roy, I don’t think you’re going to get on with this patient. I don’t think they’re for you.

Andy & Chris (34:50.546)
Yeah, yeah, it’s true.

Andy & Chris (35:00.018)
Hmm.

Roy Bennett (35:15.134)
and I won’t sort of accept that patient because it has to be that we both get on with each other. It’s gotta be a match.

Andy & Chris (35:22.258)
That’s interesting, there was a lady called…

Victoria, Victoria Sampson. Yeah. And she, we went to an event and she talked about her GDC issue. And what was fascinating was she said, she’d just come out of, you know, graduation FD and she was super enthusiastic and that she could deal with everybody. And she said, she then realized after that, that actually I can’t deal with everybody. And that’s a decision that she had to realize. And it’s brilliant to hear you saying, you know, your noises sound, well, actually this isn’t going to suit you. You, you,

Roy Bennett (35:34.91)
I can come.

Roy Bennett (35:55.614)
No, I mean it’s the old JFK isn’t it? You can’t be everything to all people can you? So usually it’s the 80 -20 rule that gets bounded around. You know, I probably can look after about 80 % of people, 20 % were not going to match and their expectations are not going to meet those expectations. So I’m not abrupt with people. I just say, look, I don’t think I’m going to meet your expectations. End of conversation.

Andy & Chris (35:56.532)
you’re not a good match.

Andy & Chris (36:01.17)
Mmm. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (36:11.314)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (36:16.146)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (36:23.314)
Yeah, it’s a nice way of doing it. But kindly. So go on.

Roy Bennett (36:25.758)
Yeah, please. Sorry, go. You know, please go down the road and try something else. Yeah. But obviously these these people, the success builds on success because the anxious person, the person that’s come in and been treated and it’s been successful, they sort of attract like minded. OK, they’re anxious, but they’ve already had the scene set.

Andy & Chris (36:31.666)
Be happy somewhere else. In a calm measured tone.

Roy Bennett (36:55.23)
by the success. So they come in and they know sort of, I don’t even look at the website. I just heard about your name, what you did for my family member. You are the dentist for me. And then I say, yeah, go on.

Andy & Chris (36:55.282)
Mmm. Mmm. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (37:02.514)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (37:06.418)
Yeah, it did make me, it did make me smile when you were saying at the beginning, when you started and you had these anxious patients, you then just referred more anxious patients and then you’ve got a complete line of anxious patients. I did think, no wonder when you were saying you have to align your team to be able to deal with that. I could just imagine, man, we’ve got another anxious patient. hello. This is obviously what I’m known for. Brilliant.

Roy Bennett (37:15.87)
I’m sorry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think early on in your career, this is probably an important thing, you have to find out if that’s your kind of makeup, because you might, may not like doing what I do. So, by self -selection, you might be better being, you know, a dedicated surgeon with a good team around you who can do all the comms and the skills and the communication skills. You might get burnt out by doing the stuff that I do. So,

Andy & Chris (37:38.386)
Yeah, definitely.

Andy & Chris (37:48.05)
No.

Andy & Chris (37:57.426)
Yeah.

Roy Bennett (37:58.814)
It has to fit like a bit of a drink straw really.

Andy & Chris (38:01.522)
I think the smart bit though, Roy, was for me, making sure your teams aligned. Because whilst you might enjoy doing that, if everyone else dislikes it, then it’s going to be a nightmare. Because you’re also going to be in conflict with them, aren’t you? So I think that’s a really smart move for people listening is, you know, yeah, find out who you are and what you want to do. But actually you need to get other people who are on your bus, as you say, you know, they’re on the same bus.

Roy Bennett (38:11.358)
to me.

Roy Bennett (38:22.334)
Yeah.

So the big challenge is when I go and visit a practice for the first time, I walk through the doors and I’ve never been to before. And then I’ve got to win over all the team before I win over the patient. So…

Andy & Chris (38:37.234)
Yeah.

Roy Bennett (38:38.59)
What I tend to do is have a phone call with the practice manager and say how I operate and what I do. And they think, that’s great. You’re going to phone the patient up and talk to the patient. We can allay their fears. And I’ll go and find out the young, find out all the team members and say, look, this, when I come back next time, this is how we operate. So a bit of time, 20 minutes with a coffee, speaking to the team is really, really important. Really important.

Andy & Chris (38:59.826)
Mmm.

Andy & Chris (39:04.53)
Yeah, we’ve talked a lot about

non -clinical aspects of dentistry and obviously as a clinician and with your team you need to do annual CPD and I sense that lots of people think CPD is clinical professional development and not continuing professional development. Do you see that dentists and their teams are more open to doing learning and development which is non -clinical? A lot of the stuff we’ve been talking about today is that becoming more commonplace?

Roy Bennett (39:35.774)
That’s a quite hard question to answer. I think it is a good one. I like that one. You’ve stumped me on that one a little bit. I think people do get set in ruts where they eat the same things and I think you’re absolutely right. It’s important to diversify and maybe, I think we’re all guilty of this a little bit, including myself, which is going to stuff that you know. Okay.

Andy & Chris (39:40.37)
It’s a good one though, isn’t it?

Andy & Chris (39:49.658)
Mmm. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (39:57.938)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (40:02.258)
Yeah.

Roy Bennett (40:03.038)
So I think absolutely you’re right, I think it’s really important for people out there to venture across the border as it were and try different things absolutely, yeah.

Andy & Chris (40:12.946)
Because a lot of what we’ve talked about is, you know, your success. And from a business development point of view, you know, we laughed and joked about anxious patients, you know, recommending to their friends who might also be anxious. But from a business development point of view, being known for something because you’re good at it is really powerful for generations of new business.

Roy Bennett (40:29.758)
Yeah. Well.

Yeah, so the other mentor that I can think of in my mind now, sort of about 10 years in, I said, I’d had a bit of a rough day and I said, you know, I’m getting fed up with this. And he said, just be good at one thing. Be good at one thing, do it to the best of your ability. You can’t be a general dentist. And as we’ve said, please everybody and try and do so many courses, endo implants, doing everything. If you can focus.

Andy & Chris (40:57.138)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Roy Bennett (41:03.294)
on one area and be really, really knowledgeable and good about it, you become sort of happier in yourself, I think, as well. So I had many colleagues that I’ve worked with over the years who have focused on different aspects in dentistry, and I’ve had brilliant careers because of it.

Andy & Chris (41:03.857)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (41:21.682)
It’s interesting, isn’t it? You sort of think. I’m just sitting here thinking about it and I think…

One, when you look at young people nowadays, and this is not some generalisation when it sort of is, and they seem to have a very high levels of anxiety, you know, that seems to be something that’s that’s a common theme for, you know, up to 30, 30 year olds that they’ve got anxiety about stuff. But also, I was I was suddenly thinking you mentioned it earlier on, it didn’t really tweak me. You know, in my head, I think about anxious patients as people like are really like, but actually probably every patient.

Roy Bennett (41:54.782)
the end.

Andy & Chris (41:56.724)
or virtually every patient is anxious, isn’t it? You know, they, no one wakes up and says, hey, I’m going to the dentist today. There’s an anxiousness on a scale of people who aren’t looking forward to someone with a spinny drill thing, might give them a, you know, and then I’ve got to inject you and all that. I’m just suddenly thinking that actually probably most people are anxious patients. It’s just where they fit on that scale.

Roy Bennett (42:13.15)
Yeah.

Roy Bennett (42:19.214)
Yeah. Yeah. And when we do the teaching, we sort of do, rather than put people through Reddit role play, which everybody hates, we, we, we put, videos of, of patient interactions. Okay. People come again with different types of personalities and saying, this patient isn’t anxious about the dentistry. They’re anxious because they’re in the middle of a divorce or they’re moving house or just life events.

Andy & Chris (42:29.074)
Hehehehehe

Andy & Chris (42:44.626)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Roy Bennett (42:47.998)
So you don’t know who you’ve got in the chair, that terrible word, in the chair. You don’t know who you’ve got in the chair sometimes because they’re having a bad day.

Andy & Chris (42:50.93)
Mmm. Yeah.

I just think people should really think about you know more at wherever we are anxiety is definitely Much more prevalent now or may it may be more noticeable or people are talking about it more So what you do, you know your communication skills is vital, you know Every dentist should be thinking about how I make it easier

Roy Bennett (43:12.446)
Absolutely. So, yeah, I remember people say, so I was a 23 year old the other day and eyes looking at the floor, wouldn’t communicate with me. And she said, you know, and she just said, I hate, I hate, I hate you and I hate dentists. And I don’t see a lot of us, a lot of people get affronted by that, but I don’t do that. I just say,

Andy & Chris (43:39.442)
Mm. Mm.

Roy Bennett (43:41.822)
So wait for the eyes to gaze, come up and gets my contact and they go, okay, tell me more. So let’s find out about why they’re in that position, not say to them, well, you need to go and see somebody else now. So it’s just asking the right questions, isn’t it?

Andy & Chris (43:48.722)
Mmm. I’ve only just met you.

Andy & Chris (43:59.121)
Yeah.

And also I think just being listened to. I think quite often somebody who’s got the minute just to say, tell me one and actually just listen. It gives them the opportunity to speak.

Roy Bennett (44:10.142)
Yeah, it’s easy. Yeah, and I understand this and I had it early on my career. It’s easier. It’s easy to soak up negativity, isn’t it? And then and then react to that in an abrupt way, because it’s quite hard as a dentist to think because you’ve got all this negativity thrown at you 24 seven and then you’ve got to be positive, haven’t you? And you’ve got to be affirmatory and.

Andy & Chris (44:20.754)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (44:35.09)
Mm -hmm.

Roy Bennett (44:37.854)
So it is quite, so you need that skill set of good words, good language, good communication.

Andy & Chris (44:40.786)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (44:44.594)
And just having that pause between reacting and responding. Because when somebody says that, it’s easy to react. But it’s actually just taking a breath and responding in a way which is more positive for the patient. Hypokanthus or something. Yeah.

Roy Bennett (44:59.198)
You know if if and look at if you look at the GPs right the medics I went to my GP the day actually got an appointment, which was incredible And I’m sat there and and all I can see is his back and him on the keyboard So sadly we seem to be moving away from good communication I think and

Andy & Chris (45:08.978)
Hahaha.

Andy & Chris (45:15.698)
Mm. Mm.

Andy & Chris (45:20.978)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Roy Bennett (45:24.222)
You know, as we said with COVID, it was quite tough, wasn’t it? Because it was all screen time, you see. So it’s the lost art.

Andy & Chris (45:27.538)
Yeah very. What do you do in a situation like that Roy when obviously you’re a really good communicator do you sort of try and bring them down the path of try communicating me like turn around and look at me it’s quite because it must be quite an interesting one for you actually.

Roy Bennett (45:44.094)
So what I did there was I didn’t say anything. I just waited for him because he was asking me questions and he was facing the other way on his keyboard and I didn’t reply. So he had to turn around and then go, did you hear what I said? I said, I’m just waiting to see your face.

Andy & Chris (46:01.298)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (46:08.722)
Nothing like the enforced silence. Excellent, excellent. Good stuff, yeah, good. Somebody has to fill the void with their silence. Are you still here? you are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Roy Bennett (46:15.006)
Exactly.

Roy Bennett (46:19.742)
and not be afraid to do that, you know. Everybody fills pauses, don’t they? So, you know.

Andy & Chris (46:25.074)
There’s another interesting dimension to your work. It’s not current, but it was in the past and it would be a good one just to have 30 seconds on. You used to work with the police on forensic work. Tell us a little bit about that. Was it like being part of CSI? Did you kind of dig into the undergrowth? Bones. Yeah, what was that about?

Roy Bennett (46:38.334)
Yeah.

Roy Bennett (46:43.614)
Yeah, so with this, I’m trying to get to do different things early on in my career and find out where my modus operandi was exactly. So I went off and did a diploma in forensic odontology, which is a fancy word for basically talking about how you interpret bite marks and how you would sadly, how you would sadly, you know, confirm to the coroner and the courts.

Andy & Chris (47:04.594)
Hmm. right. Okay.

Roy Bennett (47:12.414)
what happened in a death you see. So it would be if the deceased had bite marks on them or if there was a murder or if there was an assault because often in assaults people will become animalistic and sadly will bite somebody’s ear or something and leave a mark.

Andy & Chris (47:28.114)
Bye.

Andy & Chris (47:32.354)
right, so it wasn’t just necessarily identifying the dead person, it was also the person that had been attacked as well. wow.

Roy Bennett (47:36.926)
No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, so I’d end up in court and there’d be people, sort of, the prosecution and the defendants sort of saying, you know, I didn’t do that and then I would have to say, well, the model does match to the bite mark because we take impression. Yeah, so I got to meet some really interesting people. It’s interesting, yes, shall we say, yeah.

Andy & Chris (47:45.042)
Well…

Andy & Chris (47:54.13)
That’s quite harrowing work, isn’t it?

Andy & Chris (47:59.506)
Yeah, yeah. Interesting is a key word.

Roy Bennett (48:04.99)
So I did that for a few years, but I got to places I probably not get to now. But the thing is, so it was identification. It was legal cases of bite marks and things like this. So, but the science, there was a famous Australian case, which was the, I think it was the Dingo baby or something like that. There was a bite mark case that was in the late 70s.

Andy & Chris (48:26.546)
okay. yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Roy Bennett (48:33.118)
And it was a bit dubious, the conviction, because of the bite mark analysis. So now everything’s become more digital. There’s probably more evidential basis to it. But what I found was when I was cross -examined in the doc, it was quite a harrowing procedure because I didn’t have a legal degree. And I’d already done a lot of study. And I thought, listen, am I at the crossroads or am I going to have to go and be a barrister?

Andy & Chris (48:35.378)
Wasn’t it overturned or something? I can’t remember. Yep.

Andy & Chris (48:44.594)
Mm.

Andy & Chris (49:01.682)
Hmm.

Roy Bennett (49:02.334)
try and defend myself because it was very these guys and girls were very clever the way they were crossing across the avenue and Yeah Yeah, exactly. So it is something that I felt that I didn’t really want to continue and digital was starting to take off then So I felt impressions weren’t accurate enough for me for the bite mark analysis, but it was it was an interesting time

Andy & Chris (49:09.554)
And I guess as an expert witness, they obviously discredit you. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (49:26.674)
Yeah

No, I bet. Roy, we’ve got to the point in our conversation where we need to put two questions your way. The first question is, you’re a flyer on the wall. Where are you? Who’s there? What’s the situation?

Roy Bennett (49:45.438)
Okay, I would probably like to be in Apollo, probably Apollo 11 taking off, something like that. Being in the capsule and looking at the build up and watching the guys and everything can just take it up, that’d be brilliant, yeah.

Andy & Chris (49:52.978)
Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (50:00.018)
I wonder if those situations are as intense as we think they would be or whether they’re actually incredibly relaxed because of their training.

Roy Bennett (50:09.886)
Yeah, they’re probably quite controlled in a way, but knowing what’s going to happen would be brilliant, yeah.

Andy & Chris (50:12.498)
Yeah.

and knowing what’s gone before. Because you were thinking, even though I can’t remember which Apollo it was that sort of burnt the people on the pad or something, but you must have that sitting somewhere in your mind that, you know, this is a, I don’t know, however tall it is with how many moving parts that I know it’s been tested. However.

Roy Bennett (50:26.686)
Yeah, dangerous thing.

Yeah. It’s, yeah. Apart from my calm persona, if you like, I do like sort of risk a little bit as well. So when the Navy were training me, and I’ll just be brief on this, but they, they won’t let you in a helicopter, you see, unless you’ve done, they ditch you in the water first in a helicopter in training. And it’s called the, it’s called the dunker. Okay.

Andy & Chris (50:41.17)
okay.

Andy & Chris (50:55.41)
Right.

Roy Bennett (50:58.014)
So they stick you this thing, they drop you from about 10 feet, roll it, put the pool lights out and then say, okay, you’re number eight in the queue. You have to wait to get out to the side window. So I really enjoyed that. So I quite like that sort of, you know, that risk adrenaline, yeah. So.

Andy & Chris (51:03.41)
I’ve seen that.

Andy & Chris (51:19.41)
that adrenaline yeah so do you do anything risky now?

Roy Bennett (51:24.222)
Yeah, I do a lot of water skiing, which can be dangerous. I’ve snow skied for 30 years, you know, love that. So go out on a rib on the on the menai and yeah, love it. It’s great.

Andy & Chris (51:27.666)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (51:31.442)
Wow.

Andy & Chris (51:38.45)
It’s great isn’t it, you’ve got this calm, balanced, mellow chap and then he’s like woo hoo!

Roy Bennett (51:47.934)
Yeah, I mean, just to get out of the clinic, I think that’s what I say to, you know, young adults. Yeah, don’t just do do do dentistry all the time. Go and do some thrill stuff as well. Get out. Get out in nature. Yeah.

Andy & Chris (51:50.834)
Yeah. Give me a zip line and I’m off.

Andy & Chris (52:00.242)
Brilliant. Absolutely. And then our final question is if you got the opportunity to meet somebody, who would you like to sit down and have a coffee or a glass of wine with? Living or dead as we say, fact or fictional.

Roy Bennett (52:11.358)
This is easy, Napoleon.

Andy & Chris (52:14.674)
hmm. Okay.

Roy Bennett (52:16.414)
Okay, before Waterloo.

Andy & Chris (52:19.09)
Right and any reason why in the polling because that was really quick

Roy Bennett (52:23.07)
I’ve just been reading a lot about him recently. I think the film came out, but I went off and got some books on him. Just fascinating guy. Really interesting. Quite lambasted in history and as a conqueror, if you like, but there’s so much more to him than that. Exactly. So a really, really interesting guy. I’d like to have met him.

Andy & Chris (52:25.33)
Okay.

Andy & Chris (52:31.41)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (52:40.722)
History’s written by the victors, isn’t it? Yes. It’s funny how it always works out like that.

Brilliant. It’s been an absolute joy. Fascinating, really fascinating. It’s so relaxed, don’t you? I think it’s a lovely point to catch you in your career as well because there’s so much wisdom and…

Roy Bennett (52:53.182)
Yeah.

Andy & Chris (53:02.034)
that spends a decent period of time. I think lots of people are going to look at and go, I remember those times. Or there’ll be younger dentists who’ll be like, wow, I have no idea how important these things are. And if they can catch some of those key messages around communication early on, it puts them on a better trajectory so they can engage with their team and their patients. It’s going to be hugely valuable.

Roy Bennett (53:25.31)
Okay, it’s been a pleasure, thanks very much.

Andy & Chris (53:27.378)
No, no, brilliant. Thank you very much. We’re really interested. Cheers, Roy. Cheers.

Roy Bennett (53:30.462)
Cheers. Bye.