Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Saba Arif
Episode Release Date: Monday 31 July 2023
Andy & Chris:
So here we are, we’re very fortunate with another special guest. They keep coming. They do, they just are. Special guests every week. Exactly, and this week we are very fortunate we have Saba Arif join us. And Sabah is the founder and CEO of Smart Dental Compliance and Training. So welcome Saba, how are you? Yeah, good to
Saba Arif:
Good,
Andy & Chris:
see
Saba Arif:
thank
Andy & Chris:
you.
Saba Arif:
you. Thank you for the introduction.
Andy & Chris:
Thank you for joining us. I’m looking forward to our conversation today because there’s so many facets to what you have done and what you’re currently doing Which will be a very interesting to explore But before we start all that can we go right back to the beginning in your background and understand? You know, how did your parents set you up for the person you’ve become today? What was your childhood like?
Saba Arif:
The challenge was pretty intense to be honest. And
Andy & Chris:
Intense.
Saba Arif:
my parents
Andy & Chris:
Wow, that’s a word for childhood. Yeah,
Saba Arif:
were…
Andy & Chris:
that is. I haven’t heard that one before. Intense childhood.
Saba Arif:
Intent in the sense that my parents had, because I was the oldest daughter and the first girl and the first girl to be born in my mum’s side, so my mum’s the oldest as well, so I was the first grandchild, so I wouldn’t say I was spoiled but everybody in the family had so many dreams and aspirations for me and one of the things, a typical Asian thing is, are you going to become a doctor or are you going to
Andy & Chris:
Ha
Saba Arif:
become
Andy & Chris:
ha.
Saba Arif:
a dentist? So which one is it going to be? pressure growing up to go into the medical field and my parents really encouraged me as well and they really they had this thing that no I really want my daughter to become a doctor or a dentist I don’t know what it was but it was always that and she would put
Andy & Chris:
But there’s
Saba Arif:
me yeah
Andy & Chris:
a real recurring theme there, Sabir. We hear from lots of people the parent pressure. You know, you’ve got a choice. You’re a dentist, a doctor, or a failure.
Saba Arif:
That’s
Andy & Chris:
What are
Saba Arif:
it.
Andy & Chris:
you gonna be? And where does that come from? Why is that such a strong feeling amongst parents?
Saba Arif:
I mean, I… I think because like within our family we did have few doctors and dentists and some of my cousins are from the medical profession as well so I think the pressure was on
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
and they always thought it is the only decent job that you
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
can have whereas you know and back in those days yes people did used to think very highly of doctors dentists and they still do they still
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
do medical profession is still absolutely great but I do believe that you
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saba Arif:
can get into as well, especially being a female, they are. So the pressure was on. And
Andy & Chris:
So like
Saba Arif:
I remember…
Andy & Chris:
holidays were to the dental surgery or let’s go look at the GP surgery. Oh
Saba Arif:
that’s
Andy & Chris:
look, this is going
Saba Arif:
it.
Andy & Chris:
to be you.
Saba Arif:
Or like every summer you’re going to a science club every
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
half… You’re going to a chemistry club, you’re going to a physics club. So I remember doing all of that. Um, but I was, I think I believe I was a very good child. I was very obedient. So I just said, yeah, that’s fine. Um, mom, if that’s what you want me to be, I’ll do it. Um, and I just wanted to make them really, really proud, um,
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Saba Arif:
because I saw how they struggled and even like within my childhood, we moved a lot between countries and cities and things like that. So I saw how my parents struggled to bring us up. So, um, I felt like I. an obligation to be a very obedient child to them, especially being the oldest one. And then
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saba Arif:
I had the responsibility of four younger brothers under me
Andy & Chris:
Oh,
Saba Arif:
and
Andy & Chris:
wow.
Saba Arif:
I thought, oh my God, I have to be a role model now
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
and I can, you know, boss them around and show them that their sister is really good and you know, she’s going to be achieving a lot so they can follow me as well. So I believe it was, that’s why I believe it was intense because like every summer holidays it was study clubs, it was science clubs, it was all about academic and
Andy & Chris:
Matt.
Saba Arif:
till the age of like secondary school it was, I was in that environment where you know I was, it wasn’t oh it’s a summer holiday that’s it now you can go out with your friends you could do this you could do that. We had a lot of restrictions within the family you couldn’t be out after six o’clock, you couldn’t hang around with certain type of people so it was, that’s why I call it a bit intense but…
Andy & Chris:
Can I wind it back a bit, because you sort
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
of said it very quickly, different countries and different cities. So, what does that mean as a background?
Saba Arif:
Yeah, so my mum was born and brought up in the UK and my dad was born and brought up in Pakistan. So he was a typical Pakistani egoistic guy and my mum was like a typical British born girl. So they were two absolutely different people. So when they came together they just couldn’t decide because he would be like I want to stay in Pakistan and she’d be like there’s no way I can stay in Pakistan I want to go back to UK. So there would always be a clash. So what ended My mum got married to a very big family system. So they went back home and we stayed there for about 10 years with the in-laws and the extended family system. And then after my grandma passed away, that gave both my parents a licence, OK, we can be a bit free now, because my dad was a mummy’s little boy. So
Andy & Chris:
I will.
Saba Arif:
we couldn’t, yeah. So we had to stay there for about 10 years. And then we moved back to the UK. because my mom’s parents were based over here. And then my dad tried to stay here for about five years and then he was like, I don’t really like it, let’s go back. So we went back for another two years
Andy & Chris:
Oh my goodness.
Saba Arif:
and then my mom said, I don’t really like it here, let’s go back. So we were bouncing
Andy & Chris:
Flippin’ heck!
Saba Arif:
back, back start in the UK, till even like I remember in my teenage years, when I finished my GCSEs, I was so looking forward to doing my A levels and I had seven A’s and three A stars results were absolutely amazing and I was like yes I’m gonna do A levels I’m gonna go straight to dental school and that’s it start my career and what ended up happening top secret my second brother the one younger he started smoking and my dad saw that he caught him one day and he was like that’s it guys you’re packing up your bag this is no good and we’re going back to Paeksthan so I was like oh no
Andy & Chris:
Flip.
Saba Arif:
And that was quite surprising for me. It was, you know, a big shock to the system. But he was so strict. He just, he was like, I can’t afford to have my children smoking in this country. And
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Saba Arif:
you guys are growing up now. I don’t want you to get into this culture of gang fights and things like that was very common at that time as well. And we were living in Hackney and
Andy & Chris:
Okay,
Saba Arif:
Hackney was quite a rough area at that
Andy & Chris:
yeah,
Saba Arif:
time.
Andy & Chris:
not like it is posh now
Saba Arif:
No, not like it is posh now. And so we moved back home and I done my A levels there for three years. Um, and it was a nightmare because
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
the education system over there is so bad. Um, no matter what school you go to, no matter if it’s private or if it’s not private, it’s very difficult, their style, the way they teach you, it was very difficult. You just had these massive thick books that you just had to go through. And then at the end of the year, you would have one exam. Now, if you’re not feeling well at that exam or you’re not up for it or anything like that, that’s it. You know, you’re life is over, you could only have one reset. So the education system, and there was no such thing as coursework, assignments, or anything like that as well.
Andy & Chris:
And did I mean I imagine I know they’ve been to Pakistan but I’d imagine Culturally that must be really quite hard to keep switching almost
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
between Countries and possibly language so, you know, you’re suddenly have to you know, you’re English and then now you haven’t become Pakistani and then now you’re back English again You know how you
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
know your thoughts and the way you think and so it must be really a challenge
Saba Arif:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
to To
Saba Arif:
it
Andy & Chris:
cope
Saba Arif:
was.
Andy & Chris:
with that
Saba Arif:
Yeah, it was a bit of a challenge and the culture shock was a bit of a challenge because I found that when I was in the education system in London it was quite simple. I mean, I had very simple friends and whereas with Pakistan the college that I ended up going to was a very elite college. So there was a lot of competition whether it came to education or whether it came to dressing up. We used to have like bonfire nights and concerts and have all these celebrities come to our college.
Andy & Chris:
I will.
Saba Arif:
like crazy Christmas Day was celebrated and all these celebrations and I used to think okay and my dad would go well you do know you’re not going to the bonfire night or the sari night or this night or that night or concerts and I was like why because she’s exactly the same as us,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah.
Saba Arif:
she’s Pakistani, I’m Pakistani why? but he goes no you have to put your head down you just have to do your education you have to study really hard you’re not gonna get into all these kind of things so that part I found a bit hard
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
and
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saba Arif:
But I guess it’s the way you were born and brought up.
Andy & Chris:
Do you think the generation’s thinking of yourself now, and if and when, as and when, you either have children, you bring up children or advising cousins or whatever it might be, do you think your view on the importance of education will have changed slightly based on your own experience of how your parents kind of ingrained that in you?
Saba Arif:
Yet to be honest… whatever they’ve done, they’ve done it for my good. And I think wherever I am today, it’s because
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
they came to me so grounded.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah.
Saba Arif:
I think if I had the freedom and if I had total control of, you know, my life, I would not be here where I am. And maybe I would get into maybe a wrong company or have some wrong friends or, you know, just muck about and not concentrate too much. So even with the generation today, I think it’s even more important to instill the importance of education. Because
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saba Arif:
now people think it’s absolutely fine social media is out there. I don’t need to be you know, I don’t need to go university I don’t need to go college. I’ll start blogging.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saba Arif:
I’ll start creating some fun videos on YouTube I’ll have over millions of followers and it’s absolutely fine, you know I don’t really need to get education and as much as yes, I agree you can go down that path But I still think having the basic foundation having basic education. It’s still very important
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm. Mm.
Saba Arif:
I don’t think
Andy & Chris:
And
Saba Arif:
so.
Andy & Chris:
then after your A-levels, you then carried on your education doing biomedical science at university. So obviously
Saba Arif:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
your parents got their wish that you went into medicine in some capacity or other.
Saba Arif:
Yeah, some capacity of other. I actually said to them I want to go back and I’m going to go to university. So I came back to the UK and I enrolled for biomedical science and while I was doing biomedical science, my parents wasn’t happy about me coming back
Andy & Chris:
Did
Saba Arif:
and
Andy & Chris:
you
Saba Arif:
they
Andy & Chris:
come
Saba Arif:
said,
Andy & Chris:
back on your own then?
Saba Arif:
yeah, I came back on my own.
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Saba Arif:
Yeah, I came back on my own. So I said, look, I’ve done my A-levels. I’m ready to go back. I’m ready to go to university and progress. So I came back, even though my brothers followed me, but I did come back. And then I enrolled into the universities to start biomedical science. And while I was doing that, I got approached by a company saying, are you looking for a job? And now that was another big thing, right? So my dad’s got five brothers and all of them have got one daughter and they’re the eldest as well. So they’re all in the similar situation. And in his family, girls do not work. you don’t work. You just go and get really good education and they find you the richest guy in the whole world and they get you married and that’s your life. That’s it. The more richer your husband, the more successful you are as a woman,
Andy & Chris:
Wow,
Saba Arif:
right?
Andy & Chris:
you’ve
Saba Arif:
So
Andy & Chris:
become
Saba Arif:
that
Andy & Chris:
a very
Saba Arif:
was.
Andy & Chris:
educated housewife and mother.
Saba Arif:
Yeah, that’s it. That was the concept. And that was the same. I mean, luckily, I was allowed to come back and go to university. But I knew that was he was thinking as well, right? Let’s start looking for someone for her. And I said, let me complete my education. I promise I’ll come back and then you can look for, I don’t know, an owner of airlines or whatever it is
Andy & Chris:
Hahaha!
Saba Arif:
that you want to do, whatever it is that he wanted. He had really big dreams I remember when I started going to university, obviously getting your accommodation, there was a lot. I remember I made a call and I said, Dad, I need to get a job. He goes, why do you need a job for? I’m sending you money, you should be fine. I was like, no, Dad, I need to get a job. I need to start working and building my career and stuff. You know what he done? He sent me a long list. He goes, you can’t work in retail, you can’t work in a restaurant, you can’t work in a coffee shop, you can’t work there. I was like, so where am I supposed to get my first job? He goes, it has to be somewhere very decent. And I was like, okay, I don’t know what you mean by very decent, but where exactly? He goes, oh, why don’t you try a hospital or a GP clinic or a dental practice or something like that. So they were, okay, that’s fine, I can try, even though I had zero experience at that time. And then I got approached by an agency saying, would you like to work as a dental nurse? And I said, well, I don’t have any qualification. I’m doing my biomedical science at the moment. I do wanna get into dentistry after biomed, but that’s what I’m doing. fine the course is only one year course your classes are going to be on a Sunday so it’s not going to interfere with your university so that was the second course I was doing while I was doing my degree so I started my dental nursing and then I was doing nursing every other Sunday and then I was very lucky I found a job a Saturday dental nursing job and that’s when I got into nursing and I thought oh my god this is amazing I’ve just loved dentistry so cool and I love working with people’s teeth I love looking after the patients the whole customer journey me and I was very intrigued. So when I finished my nursing, I was in the last year of biomedical science. The place where I was working on a Saturday, SmilePod, I remember, they offered me a practice manager role. They said, look, you’re absolutely amazing. We want to offer you a practice manager role. And I was like, yes, great. Lovely salary, nice short timings. It was only from nine till three at that time because they had another manager who was doing after three. So I can manage everything very nicely. I’ve done that for two years, absolutely loved it. I progressed within that role as well. I became the area manager, so I was managing multiple sites as well before I left. And then I remember when that came to an end, I got a job opportunity from Bupa. And I remember applying to that and thinking, Sarah, what the hell are you doing? You’re never gonna get that job. You’re never, you’re not even qualified to get that job. But I was a big daredevil. I would apply to the biggest, biggest job opportunities out there just to go and get experience in the interviews. That’s all I wanted. So I would really throw myself out there. If there was a role saying director of compliance, you will see my CV be the first one in that company. Even though it said you need 25 years of experience, I would have, oh, get about experience. I just learn as I go along and I’ll be fine. So I remember going to, the day came, and then I went to the interview for Bupa and there was two like operation managers there, literally interrogating me. And I thought, I’m never gonna get this job. It was a good learning experience. And then I got back home. I had my last assignment to do for my university and I was submitting that. And I got a call and they said, they actually really liked you and they would like to call you for another interview. I was like, oh God, damn. I never thought of that. I never ever, you know,
Andy & Chris:
He wasn’t supposed to go like that.
Saba Arif:
I was like, no, it wasn’t supposed to go like that. I actually thought, okay, back to job hunting, or I’m okay with smile pod, it doesn’t matter, or we’ll apply to some really big firm again and see where it goes and we’ll get some experience. So they called me in the next week for a second interview and I went, and after two weeks, they made a decision to offer me the role. And I was so excited, but I was so nervous at the same time as well. And I was just like, I don’t know how I’m gonna do this. role where I was going to be managing at least 48 people across 18 different sites. So I was based in Bank at that time in central London. and I thought, oh my God, and everyone was a lot more older than me. And I think they said, you are the youngest clinical operation manager we recruited. And I was like, damn, I wonder what that means. So I was just like, okay, fine. I had my induction and everything. So I started working and I remember, oh my God, that was… the most hardest first year of any job that I had worked, because yes, everybody was older than me, to tell people what they needed to do or to lead people who are 10 or 12 years older than you, it was just totally different.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saba Arif:
They would just, they would think, okay, she’s just come in and, you know, she’s implementing all
Andy & Chris:
What
Saba Arif:
these
Andy & Chris:
does
Saba Arif:
changes.
Andy & Chris:
she know?
Saba Arif:
Who does she know? Who does she think she is? Why did this person get this person? And they had a very good relationship. with the lady I was replacing and she had been their manager for a very long time. So it was very difficult to be just like her.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
I remember I used to go, my boss was really, really nice. He was absolutely a gem. And I used to go to him and I said, Stuart, I don’t think I could do this. I don’t know why you’ve selected me. And he was like, Sabah, you’ll be absolutely fine. Trust me. And he used to instill so much confidence
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
inside me that I used to walk outside his office and I used to be like, right, I’m gonna put everything in place now
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
and it’s gonna be absolutely. fine. So that I think that was very important for me to have that support from him.
Andy & Chris:
I think it is because there’s a phrase, isn’t there, that if you’re good enough, you’re old enough. And
Saba Arif:
safe.
Andy & Chris:
I think if you’re appointing somebody, that’s a great attitude to have. But when you then end up having people working with you and your team who you’re more senior to, it doesn’t always flow. Because you’ve got imposter syndrome, you’ve got the person before me had been doing a job for years and years. am I going to duel with a team? So in the early days, you know, that’s a… And everybody’s opinionated, aren’t they? Yeah, yeah. That’s very hard to go into an environment like that and succeed very quickly.
Saba Arif:
Yeah, yeah. But I had good support, I had good people around me. And then the best thing was everything that I wanted to experience. Bupa was an awesome company to work with. I know they’ve made a lot of changes now, but when they initially started their dental practice, it was very good. They invested so much in their people. We had a massive training budgets. We could go on courses. We had
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
amazing health benefits as well. We had flexibility, there was progression. It was very, very good. My role was, it wasn’t very stagnant, even though I was a clinical service manager, but apart from managing people, I would work on multiple other projects as well. So I did work in the acquisition department, integration department. I went into finance. I also went into compliance. So he would let me go. He would say, go Sabha and work in different
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saba Arif:
departments so you can build your confidence up and you can really understand the whole, what Bupa is.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saba Arif:
That was the one really good thing. I think if I never got to do that, I again, I would have been a very good person. wouldn’t have the experience that I’ve made like till today. So yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. And working in that environment, Sabha, because, you know, the majority of people that listen to this work in independently owned dental practices. So are the issues that affect corporately owned dental practices, like the Boop environment, are they the same issues just at a bigger level that affect independently owned dental practices at a smaller level? There aren’t the difference in the issues that affect those businesses.
Saba Arif:
Yeah, I think with the corporates though, you do get a lot more pressure. you have got a lot more pressure with the figures and the revenues and the finance. You’ve got constant meetings. And again, if the numbers are not according to the numbers that they finance
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
team are looking for, the whole, that’s it, they start having a lot of meetings, understanding why and where they’re going wrong. So I felt like with corporates, it was a lot of pressure that was constantly there. A lot of like golds, KPI targets that had to be
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
discussed on a monthly, six monthly and an annual basis. in stone no matter what. Whereas sometimes with private individual
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
practices, once it gets really busy, people understand, oh, you know what? We’ve had a really busy month. Let’s have another meeting next month and see how it goes. So corporates, yes, they are different
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
catalog fishes and they are quite pressurizing when you are working for them.
Andy & Chris:
And in reality, there’s the sweet spots, probably some in the middle. I think you can measure everything to the nth degree and it doesn’t actually add much value to the business. But then equally at the other end, I think lots of dental practices, because the simple economics of a dental practice work quite well. they’re profitable. And I think sometimes practice owners don’t necessarily understand. They don’t know why, yeah. Yeah, they don’t really know what the key profit centers in their business are. And so I think there’s probably a midpoint that says, at an independently owned level, there probably should be more tracking, more KPIs and more management. And it sounds very much at the corporate end, which is very much kind of shareholder-driven value. Let’s kind of make sure that everything’s being sort of ticked and tracked as it should be. So.
Saba Arif:
So Bupa, yes, was a very good, very good experience and I was there for about five years.
Andy & Chris:
So that sort of maybe sort of moves onto your own practice that you set up, because I’m just interested to what you put into that. Did you sort of, have you, have you chosen a midpoint between bonkers monitoring and laissez faire?
Saba Arif:
Yeah, to be honest, even before the practice, I helped nearly 68 dental squats
Andy & Chris:
Wow!
Saba Arif:
to establish.
Andy & Chris:
Is this
Saba Arif:
So
Andy & Chris:
through
Saba Arif:
we’ve helped.
Andy & Chris:
the compliance company that you’ve got here?
Saba Arif:
through the compliance
Andy & Chris:
Wow!
Saba Arif:
here, through Smart Dental compliance. So we’ve done about 68 squat practices in the last six years. And I love squats. I absolutely love squats because you can really, put your stamp onto it.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Saba Arif:
In terms of the design work, you can really be very clever with it, very creative with it. And I think they are from logistically, they’re slightly more easier than buying a running
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saba Arif:
practice. But again, the security of buying a running practice is a lot more better. you know, when I’m helping my clients do a squat, one of my staff members in the compliance business said, why don’t you open your own squat? And I said, no, I’m not doing my own squat. You must be joking. I’m done with helping people. You think I’ll be able to manage my own squat? There’s no way. And they said, no, come on, Sabba. You’re really creative. You’ve got good contacts. And I actually think you should do it. And I said, with all the other things that I’m doing right now, do you actually think I could do it? And he goes, yeah, definitely you
Andy & Chris:
hehe
Saba Arif:
could do it. And I thought, okay, why not? Give it a try. So I remember when I started looking for locations and obviously typically it had to be somewhere near home. So I’m located in Southgate in North London. So I started looking at the close areas by and I came across this shop. And with me, I have like good, I would like to say I have good gut instinct. When I go and look at something, I can very easily visualize
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Saba Arif:
like for me. So when I went to see this place it was a very old clothes shop called Wild Daisy and it had been shut down and I went in and instantly I could imagine I was like yeah so the surgery is going to go here and here, reception area here, back area, relaxation area, decon, downstairs in the basement, everything. So it was all the whole thing started picturing in my head and I was like this is amazing I can actually picture having a practice in this place. And then I said, all right, I called the landlord up and I said, I’m really happy. So I’d done all the deal, negotiated the rent, rent free everything, signed the paperwork. Now because of the compliance business, I have got really, really good contacts within the industry, whether it’s equipment, whether it’s like finance or whatever it is, I had very good contacts. So luckily and compliance, we had compliance business. So compliance is one of the biggest nightmares of every single Scott Practice owner right now. And so because of that, it made it very easy for me.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Saba Arif:
I didn’t have to worry about it. And then the build work started and then people said, oh, are you going to get an architect? Are you going to get a designer? I said, no, no. Now, again, one of my biggest passion is interior designing. I always say to people, if I was to live again, I would be an interior designer, 100%. I love interior designing. It’s something that really is therapeutic for me and I really enjoy doing. So I designed the whole practice. The build work took three months. Obviously the build work is always difficult
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
because constantly managing builders and nagging. And then the thing is, because I’m not a professional interior designer, I would see them do something. I would be like, nah, change it.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
And that’s what they hate, right? They’re just like, oh my God, you’re constantly changing stuff. You can’t make your mind up. I was like, yeah, but it doesn’t look nice. So please.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
So I remember it was a bit of a struggle with them. But yeah, now when I look at the end product, People actually come in and say, what is this place? And I say, it’s a dental practice. They say, oh my God, it’s the most therapeutic place I’ve ever seen.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
And even my concept, when I was creating a practice, I had this, I was very conscious. I didn’t wanna create a practice just like a normal dental practice. My patient journey, I wanted it very different. So my patient journey that I designed was when a patient comes in for, let’s say, composite bonding, implant extraction, for a very nerve wracking treatment, they would actually come to the therapy room for a 15 minutes massage. So they would have
Andy & Chris:
Nice.
Saba Arif:
a 15 minutes
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
shoulder and neck massage
Andy & Chris:
Very smart.
Saba Arif:
before going for their dental treatment. So that was my patient journey because obviously you’ve got all your nerves here and you’ve got the trigeminal nerves and they get intense when you’re having a dental treatment. So for having a nice… therapeutic massage, I thought it will calm them down. So that was my patient journey that I created. So we’ve got two surgery rooms and then one therapeutic room and one skin room. And it’s worked out really well, to be honest. It’s been two years, it’s been up and running. I’ve got clinical director and we’ve done really well. We’ve got 155 star reviews on Google. Patients are absolutely amazing. And we’re now even looking for our second site.
Andy & Chris:
Oh good for you. Just rolling back to the dental practice is a fairly new venture for you but not your latest venture because we’ll come on to the business that you’ve just started and had a launch this weekend which sounded exciting but going back to when you started smart dental compliance which I think was six years ago what was the trigger for you because you obviously were doing well at Bupa, what was the moment where you decided that you wanted to be a business owner? Job at a decent company according to a dad, so that’ll be alright. And kind of start your own kind of entrepreneurial journey.
Saba Arif:
You know what? I never ever in my life thought that I would be a business, to be honest, I’d be a business owner. It was never part of my plan, it was never part of my dream or vision or anything like that. I loved working with Bupa and I thought I’m going to be here for a good 20, 30 years because this is the company. And even before Bupa, I welcomed in a lot of places just to get a feel of do I see myself in that position for a long time. But Bupa was one place until, until they got taken over by Oasis. So when that happened, all the roles became redundant. The budgets that we were given for training, for finance, it all got taken away. Some of the facilities that managers had or area managers had, they got taken away as well. And then I thought, you know what, Sabah, this is the right time to just leave and venture out and start your own thing. And it was, I was the clinical services manager and we had a non-clinical services manager. And I remember speaking to her, her name was Agata, I said, what are you doing? Because obviously our roles are getting made redundant and things are changing a lot. And she goes, I’m going into hospital compliance because I’m a professional auditor as well from Poland and I’ve got masters and all that kind of stuff. And I said, hospital compliance, that sounds interesting. What will you be doing? So she said, I’ll be doing audits, risk assessments, you know, doing their policies,
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Saba Arif:
just making sure that they’re compliant. in. So I said, okay, that sounds interesting. Maybe I could do that for dental practices. And because I had built so many nice contacts,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
I started tapping into my contacts,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
just asking them just if they’re opening practice, if they want their compliance managed. And one of the other ways what I would do, again, this might be a really useful tip, I will see all these, I’ll go into Indeed and I’ll see all these vacancies being advertised, practice manager, practice manager. I would apply to all of them. I’ll get an interview. I’ll go to the interview and I’ll say, they were like, oh, we really like you. offer you the job. I was like okay would you be interested in me being your compliance consultant rather than being a full-time practice manager and they’ll go what?
Andy & Chris:
Super smart.
Saba Arif:
You came in for a manager interview and you’re talking about compliance and then I will do my Dragon’s Den pitch. I’m a big fan of Dragon’s Den. I used to love Dragon’s Den. So I’ll be like, right, so this is my company and this is what I do and this is what I will do for you and this is how I make your life easy and this is how much you can save. And they’ll be like, oh, very impressive. That’s fine. You can come and do our compliance.
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
Saba Arif:
And then I’ll say, like literally six months. I managed to sign up about eight practices who I would go regularly to do their compliance for them. And one of my first practice was 53 Harley Street. So Dr. Mark Hughes.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
And I was so proud of myself, I was so proud. I worked really hard with them, got all their compliance. They had two CQC inspection that year and they passed with flying colors and they absolutely loved me. And they said, look, you know, we’re happy to give you good testimonials.
Andy & Chris:
That’s brilliant.
Saba Arif:
So that was, I think I was very lucky, very happy.
Andy & Chris:
Mark would appreciate something like that. Get
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
up and go. He’s that sort of guy,
Saba Arif:
Get up.
Andy & Chris:
isn’t he? He would probably go, that’s really smart.
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
And cheeky. I was going to say that’s very entrepreneurial to approach it in that way
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
and also be able to spin it in a way which led to them taking on your services as opposed to thinking, that’s smart but I feel a bit duped. Yeah, yeah. That’s
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
brilliant. You also presented it in a way. And obviously you have to deliver it, don’t you, as well? But that is a… Super smart way that is brilliant
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
because I tell you what that is that is marketing on a whole different level of sales, isn’t it? Yeah,
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
absolutely because that’s like instead of ringing them up and saying hey, well actually I’ve now I’m here Huh, I can deliver this right really smart
Saba Arif:
Thank
Andy & Chris:
quite
Saba Arif:
you.
Andy & Chris:
often in sabba There’s there’s a push and a pull in life and it sounded like because of the takeover of Bupa bio-asus, that whole change in terms of how that worked and what that looked like, meant that you didn’t want to stay in that environment anymore. So that was kind of a push for you to do that. But obviously you still had this desire to want to actually take that forward yourself. If that situation hadn’t occurred and you hadn’t felt… you know, just gone to a world not comfortable in that environment any longer. Did you think that you would have just stayed in a corporate type environment or do you think you
Saba Arif:
Thank
Andy & Chris:
would have,
Saba Arif:
you.
Andy & Chris:
you know, finally you had this kind of, this fire in your bed that you would have done it at some day anyway.
Saba Arif:
No, actually I didn’t. As I said, I was really, really happy at Bupa. And they even invested a lot on my training courses. I done Agile course, I done Prince, Project 2 management. Whatever course I wanted to do, again, I was very academic. I always wanted to do a course
Andy & Chris:
Hmm,
Saba Arif:
constantly to improve
Andy & Chris:
upskill here.
Saba Arif:
myself and my knowledge. And they invested in that. And they gave me the opportunity to move between different departments.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saba Arif:
So I was never standing still. And I was always traveling between sites So I think I would have been there definitely long term if it didn’t get taken over
Andy & Chris:
Can I ask a question? I don’t know. Is your dad still with us? Is he still alive or whatever?
Saba Arif:
Yeah, yeah,
Andy & Chris:
I was gonna say,
Saba Arif:
yeah.
Andy & Chris:
what did he think when you go from the Pakistani woman who’s very well educated to then find you and marry you off to someone to then find out his daughter’s actually set up her own business? I’d be very intrigued to know how that conversation went.
Saba Arif:
is a very strong hard person. He’s not, I don’t even remember the last time I’ve seen him cry. I think that the only time was like when his mum died away. So he’s like a very, he doesn’t express his emotions. I know from inside, I hear from his friends, oh, your dad was talking about you. I was like, oh right. Okay, but he’s never actually confronted me and said, look, well done, I’m so proud of you. My mom does it very regularly, she’s very emotional. So she does it a lot of the time, but my dad still doesn’t. But I know from inside, when he talks to me about his friends and things like that, I’m just like, all right, dad, all right.
Andy & Chris:
He’s proud. Yeah. He’s proud. He can’t quite say. Yeah, he can’t quite get round to it. But he’s proud.
Saba Arif:
Yeah, he
Andy & Chris:
What would
Saba Arif:
is.
Andy & Chris:
you say are the myths of being the founder of a business? Because lots of people have kind of dreams and ambitions to own or run their own business. And I think there’s quite an unfair phrase called a wannapreneur. A wannapreneur is somebody who constantly thinks they’re going to set up a business, but they never quite get around to it. But what are the things that having been through the process, do you think are the myths of being a founder of a business?
Saba Arif:
the things I would say is you need a lot of motivation and dedication and I remember when I had my second child it was a bit of a I wasn’t expecting it and then I was pregnant and then I remember going to my mom and crying and saying oh my god I want to go And she was like, what, are you crazy? I was like, I’ve just started Smart Dental Compliance and I can’t deal with this. And she was like, no, you’ll be fine. And I was actually hiding it from all my clients. And I remember one of my
Andy & Chris:
I will.
Saba Arif:
clients, we were driving down to Bournemouth, and she said, I want you to come and do some leadership and management training for my team next week. And I said to her, yeah, that’s absolutely fine. As soon as I’ve had the baby, I’ll come. And she, I remember her breaking, literally on A406 and going, is everything all right? And she goes, are you pregnant? And I was just like, yeah, I’m due like literally in three, four days, but don’t worry, I’ll come and do your
Andy & Chris:
Hahaha!
Saba Arif:
training. As soon as the baby comes out, I’ll come and do your training. And she was like, I didn’t even know. And I said, yeah, yeah. So I didn’t even have a maternity leave, even till the last day I done my first dental show in London XL and I was on my feet all day and I remember it was very difficult. So one of the biggest things that I would definitely say to people is it’s a lot of hard work.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
I, for the last five years, I haven’t had any social life at all. Working seven days a week, day, night, even sometimes where mum was, I think you’ve absolutely lost it. But the thing is you really have to enjoy it. I really thoroughly enjoy what I do.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Saba Arif:
I love my work. I love working with people, I love progressing. When things all come to a reality and they start working, I absolutely love it. When my clients pass their CQC inspection, just to look at that smile on their face, it’s just like for me, it’s like a dream come true. So it’s hard work, it’s really hard work. And nowadays, especially, there’s so much competition, so much competition that you think, oh, am I actually gonna succeed? But if you truly believe in yourself, that’d be 100%
Andy & Chris:
I think that thing about being passionate is so true because I think if you’re not then the The hard days are too hard. I think if you
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
are passionate and you truly believe it because the good days are always easy You know when things are going well, there’s no issues It’s
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
it’s the hard days and as business owners a founder that there are hard days But if you’re passionate and you really believe there’s something, you know around the corner you’ll keep pushing but without that It’s just a job and that becomes quite hard to motivate yourself in those hard days
Saba Arif:
Yeah, definitely. and you need a good support system.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
I mean, my family’s very supportive. My mom’s been very supportive. I’ve got a brother who’s very supportive of me. So I think without their support, it would have been very, very difficult. And then my team, my team is absolutely amazing. Like this was one thing that I was very passionate about because I always used to read a lot about how to make sure that your business is successful. And one of the things was make sure you look after your team.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saba Arif:
looked after from my manager, it was very easy for me to come and look after my team. So I felt for me it was like a second nature
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Saba Arif:
and that’s one of the things I would say I’m the most proud of right now. Like if you get any of my team members and say what do you think of Sabah? They would say look she’s one of the most amazing, they even say to, on every day they are like Sabah you’re one of the most amazing bosses we’ve ever had. And not that because I want to hear it but I just want them to feel that. we’re going to spend more time in this place than we do at home.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Saba Arif:
So I want you guys to be, and it’s very difficult, especially when I’m coming from a corporate environment,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
not a lot of my team got along with each other and they didn’t feel that way. No matter how many leadership events that I would organise or what I would do, there were certain things I couldn’t control within Bupa. But the one thing I love within the company is I can control everything.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
So we have like the most amazing team events. we will do a team event. Last one was Go Ape. The next one is Barbecue on a Boat in River Thames. We’ve got a target which we’re gonna hit and we’re going to Dubai next year as a team. So I really do invest a lot in them, whether it’s their training, whether it’s their development. I try to come across, even though we’ve got little offices, I would never sit in their office.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
I would always sit with them. Whatever the problem is, I would always speak to them. And I think that’s the most important thing right now. You have to look after your- your team
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
and sometimes they say to me, Sabba, you know my last job we had the most tiniest, teeniest staff room and you know the boss’s office was triple size than our staff room and we weren’t paid on time and it really hurts me when I when I think about this
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
especially owning a dental practice I know exactly how much revenue you know comes in and stuff and if you’re not investing back into your team I think it’s a big shame
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
it is so that’s one thing that I would really good team
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
in the sense that, you know, if I said, right, we’re having a really tough month, let’s do weekends to bring the numbers up, they’d be like, yeah, no problem, happily come.
Andy & Chris:
I’ve met a few of your team at the show, the last show, and there was a lot of energy on your stand. People were, there was a real sense that they were happy to be there, not just
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
because it was a dent, they actually wanted to be there and they were great ambassadors for your business.
Saba Arif:
Yes, we try to make everything really fun because as you know compliance can be a bit boring. Well it is, people find
Andy & Chris:
Well,
Saba Arif:
it
Andy & Chris:
I’m glad
Saba Arif:
boring.
Andy & Chris:
you followed up with the ease. Yeah.
Saba Arif:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
Phew. Yeah.
Saba Arif:
policies, audits, risk assessment. So it is quite boring. And then dentistry shows and things like that. So I always say to them, guys, don’t worry. We’re going to make it fun. We have different theme for each dentistry show. So this one was a beach party. The other one was air hostess. We were flying with partial CQC with flying colors with the airline theme and things like that. So we try to keep it really lively and fun so they can have fun at the same time as do their
Andy & Chris:
It’s
Saba Arif:
work.
Andy & Chris:
a smart idea. And just on the dental compliance bit, is the compliance requirements of owning a money or dental practice, are they getting worse? Is it, are they becoming more stringent? Is it harder to effectively run a dental practice? Or is that just one of those kind of urban myths that actually it’s not getting harder, but everyone just feels it’s getting harder?
Saba Arif:
It is getting harder, it is. Because the CQC are expanding, they’ve got a very diverse team now. What they look for is different. So it’s not like, you know, before you had the Bob standard list, right? If
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
you’ve got this, that’s it, you need this and you need that audit and you need this audit. And now it’s not like that. Now every inspection is different. They would pick up on different things. Different inspectors would have different perspectives and they would look at different areas. So you might have an inspection where they’re very hot on medication you might have an inspection where they’re very hot on policies but not audits. So even though, yes, they say that they are trying to streamline things and make it easy, but I think it’s getting a lot more harder. There’s a lot more paperwork, especially for squat practices. It’s not really that simple and easy. And especially after COVID, they have put a lot of things in place. They’ve put a lot of requirements in place as well. And inspections are hard and they are nerve-wracking. Trust me, even I am a compliance consultant. for my practice I was like oh my god oh my god I hope it’s going to be okay so if I am saying that I can you know you can imagine how dentists will feel
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
for their practices when it comes to compliance.
Andy & Chris:
Absolutely. Scary. And then just to finish up, we’ve got two questions we’re going to ask you at the end. But before we get to that, so you, you set up your own dental practice. You’re looking for a second side. You’ve got your compliance and training business and then tell us about the business. The other business that you’re involved in that you had the launch of just this weekend. Too much time on our hands. I was going to say, yeah, you’ve got, you’ve got young children. It’s like, it’s like a wonder woman. You can do everything. Eight days a week.
Saba Arif:
Very passionate, yes. So we just had a launch of Photology. So Photology is a fitness and organic cafe. My mom’s a nutritionist and she’s been on my case for a very long time to change my diet, to get fit. Because when you’re working, it’s very easy just to, and I love my chocolates. I’m a big sugar eater. I’m very sweet too. But when you start hitting your 30s and you start forgetting things, so you know what,
Andy & Chris:
I remember
Saba Arif:
I really
Andy & Chris:
those
Saba Arif:
need
Andy & Chris:
decades.
Saba Arif:
to talk to you.
Andy & Chris:
They’re behind
Saba Arif:
I’m going to go to
Andy & Chris:
me
Saba Arif:
bed.
Andy & Chris:
now, but I don’t remember them. Let me just try and think of 30s.
Saba Arif:
So I just thought, you know what, a year ago I started personal training and I absolutely really loved going to the gym. I would go like every day. I started changing my diet, started eating a lot more healthier, cleaner and then I thought, you know what? Every time I would go to the gym, I wouldn’t really feel comfortable with the environment because now gyms have become more like the social media thing. You
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
go there to take selfies,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
to show your ass and to show your abs and all this. And sometimes I would feel really intimidated. I was like, oopsie daisy, I haven’t got my six packs yet. All my glutes are not looking good at the moment. And then I was, again, I was so lucky. I was standing in Dentizen. So Dentizen is in a really nice street where there’s lots of shops. You’ve got the Bushill Park station that goes straight to Liverpool Street station. and then you’ve got the post office, you’ve got lots of other little businesses, really nice ones. Now I was standing in Dentizen and there was a shop right in front of us which done like clothing line, and the lady was packing up. So I went in and I said, oh, are you moving out? She goes, yes, my lease has come to an end. And I always like, on the whole row, I really liked that shop out of all of them. And I said, can I have the landlord’s number? And she goes, yeah, sure. So she gave me the landlord’s number. I spoke to the landlord. I said, I’m really interested in your shop. It’s really, really nice. And he goes, yeah, that’s fine. available we haven’t put it in the market so I gave him an offer and he said yeah that’s I accept the offer he sent me the least paperwork I signed it I swear the next day I woke up I was literally sweating I said oh my god what the hell did I do I’ve already got a dental practice I’ve got compliance business we also have a Denton nursing academy
Andy & Chris:
I will.
Saba Arif:
which is a week from thing and now I’m learning and what am I gonna do here like literally it’s opposite dentists I’m just gonna open it because all of our staff member moaned they said there’s nowhere nice to eat around here and There’s not nice food and there’s no like gyms around here and things like that. So I said, alright guys, don’t worry You know what? We’re gonna open a really nice cafe. It’s gonna be all organic food milk shakes healthy juices everything and at the bottom We’re gonna open a gym and they all got excited. They were sabba. Oh my god Are we gonna get free membership? And I
Andy & Chris:
free membership
Saba Arif:
was like, yeah. Yeah We’ll all enjoy it so for them because we wanted to organize some exercise classes in our office, but you know office is an office
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
environment, it’s very hard to do it. And then I thought, okay, you know what guys, I’m going to do it and you’re going to have lots of fun. So we’ve got the smart compliance offices are right opposite Dentizen as well. So we’ve got a team of 12 consultants here, and then we’ve got Dentizen team. So we’re like 20, 25 people anyway.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
So I thought, perfect, why not open a cafe? The team can have fun as well. It’s a business. that you know again my brother wanted to do so I said okay he can manage it all and then the
Andy & Chris:
Pretty…
Saba Arif:
fitness I would do. So yeah
Andy & Chris:
Wow!
Saba Arif:
we had a very successful launch
Andy & Chris:
What I love
Saba Arif:
on
Andy & Chris:
is you have this
Saba Arif:
Friday.
Andy & Chris:
whole attitude of say yes and work out how to do it later. It’s all very
Saba Arif:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
mellow isn’t it? I love the fact of it’s like,
Saba Arif:
yeah,
Andy & Chris:
yeah, we’ll
Saba Arif:
I
Andy & Chris:
never
Saba Arif:
mean…
Andy & Chris:
go at that. Rather than kind of sit down and endlessly write business plans and work out, you know, doing the old SWOT analysis. Your attitude is
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
I’ll sign the paperwork and then work out how to do it.
Saba Arif:
We work it out. You know what? You’re absolutely right. That happened with dentists then. I said I’ll sign the lease and then we’ll think about it. That happened with Photology. I signed the lease and then I was like, oh my god, oh my god. But I thought, you know what? I’ll learn at the job. It’s fine. Because
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saba Arif:
I’ve never done food industry. I’ve never. But I just thought, you know what? I’m going to learn at the job. And we’ll just see how it goes.
Andy & Chris:
But
Saba Arif:
So…
Andy & Chris:
that behavior has been reinforced because it’s gone well for you so far. So the more
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
you do it and the more it goes well, the more likely you are to try that again. But also the support of family, isn’t it? Your mum can do the nutrition, your brother’s gonna run it. So that has an element of trust, doesn’t it?
Saba Arif:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
Which
Saba Arif:
yeah
Andy & Chris:
is-
Saba Arif:
it’s got a bit
Andy & Chris:
Good
Saba Arif:
of that
Andy & Chris:
for you,
Saba Arif:
element.
Andy & Chris:
Savva. No one’s gonna screw you over. What a brilliant story. Yeah, it’s amazing. What a brilliant story. Yeah.
Saba Arif:
You know my team they make fun of me and they actually say what’s gonna be next? I’m a what’s next
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
and I said, oh another dentist and they actually I told them today and they were like, are you serious? You know, we just launched photography. I was like, yeah, I’m serious. Why not? Come on and they’re like, okay We’re looking forward
Andy & Chris:
They’ve got
Saba Arif:
to it.
Andy & Chris:
to
Saba Arif:
That’s what
Andy & Chris:
match
Saba Arif:
I mean
Andy & Chris:
your ambition, they’ve got to keep up.
Saba Arif:
That’s it so they’re very supportive and they’re like, okay, so when are we going to see the site? I was like very soon
Andy & Chris:
Go and find it first. Well, it feels like this is going to be episode one. I think at some point you’re going to have to come back
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
on in a little while and we’ll find out what episode two looks like. We always ask our guests the same two questions and the first question we have for you just to wrap up is if you could be the fly on the wall in a situation, when would that be? Where would you be? Who would be there? What would that look like?
Saba Arif:
I was thinking about that question because there’s so many people I would want to be with but I think… The most theoretical answer, and I know it’s a bit theoretical, but if you look at Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawkinson, and they were two brilliant minds
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saba Arif:
and they made a lot of, you know, significant contribution
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saba Arif:
to understanding the universe, witnessing discussion between, you know, extraordinary experiences. So I would like to be present in their conversation just to see how they exchange ideas, debates, how things come into reality, challenging each other’s assumptions
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Saba Arif:
as well. intellectual giants that it would be nice to see how their conversation would flow together.
Andy & Chris:
Interesting that will be a fascinating But and if you could if you could meet somebody if you could sit down and have one of your organic smoothies with somebody Who would you like to who would you like to take an opportunity to have a conversation with?
Saba Arif:
I’m really inspired by Stephen Bartlett at the moment.
Andy & Chris:
Um.
Saba Arif:
I think he’s absolutely amazing. I listened to his podcast. He’s so young. He’s so entrepreneurial. He’s got his hand in everything.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
He does the health and wellness. He’s doing the softwares. He’s just, he’s really, really good. And, you know, he’s one of the youngest person to be in Dragon’s Den
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saba Arif:
as well. And I just love his enthusiasm. I love his quotes, the way he does his podcasts with people, what he brings to the table, how he helps the youth as well. So I think he’s quite an inspirational person for me at the moment.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, he’s got a very fresh way of thinking and approach, isn’t
Saba Arif:
That’s it,
Andy & Chris:
it?
Saba Arif:
yeah.
Andy & Chris:
He seems to have landed at the right time for a right
Saba Arif:
time.
Andy & Chris:
part of society as well. People seem to really engage with his kind of thought process and how he approaches things.
Saba Arif:
Yeah, I mean even the way he does all his social media, I think is absolutely amazing.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah,
Saba Arif:
It’s really good.
Andy & Chris:
I think,
Saba Arif:
And then he shares it with
Andy & Chris:
yeah,
Saba Arif:
people.
Andy & Chris:
I think a lot of it is authenticity. You feel that
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
with him, you really do get what you see and you see what you get. It feels very genuine.
Saba Arif:
Yeah, yeah, definitely, 100%.
Andy & Chris:
Brilliant.
Saba Arif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Cheers Sabah, it’s been wonderful. It’s been wonderful. Yeah, it’s been excellent. We won’t keep you any longer because there’s no shortage of things for you to be doing. You’ve got to go and do business. Exactly, your team are expecting you to open your second squat this afternoon, so we can’t keep you for too much longer. Now it’s been wonderful. Thank you for spending the time. Congratulations on
Saba Arif:
Thank
Andy & Chris:
your
Saba Arif:
you so
Andy & Chris:
success
Saba Arif:
much.
Andy & Chris:
so far. And I think it’s going to be a- Watch the space on it. I think the next 10, 20 years are going to be incredible for you.
Saba Arif:
Thank you so much guys, it was lovely being part of the dental. Thank
Andy & Chris:
Thank you
Saba Arif:
you,
Andy & Chris:
very much. Thank you
Saba Arif:
you
Andy & Chris:
for joining
Saba Arif:
too,
Andy & Chris:
us,
Saba Arif:
bye.
Andy & Chris:
Abba. Have a good rest of the day.
