Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Saima Butt
Episode Release Date – Monday 12 June 2023
Andy & Chris:
So today we have a very, very special guest joining us. A special guest. Special guest. And we are delighted, absolutely delighted
Saima Butt:
Hehehe
Andy & Chris:
that we have the founder of On-Hold Communications join us today and it’s Simon Butt. How are you Simon? Are you well?
Saima Butt:
Well, thank you Andy, Chris, thank you for having me.
Andy & Chris:
Pleasure. We’re delighted that you’ve been able to join us and we’re really looking forward to hearing your story and about your business And about your mum’s curry’s but we’ll get to that we’ll get to that later on but but can we just put you on hold? for the moment
Saima Butt:
Ah lovely!
Andy & Chris:
Anyway
Saima Butt:
Depends what I’m listening to Chris, depends what I’m listening to.
Andy & Chris:
before we get into the the business side of things, let’s get right back to the beginning water Things that we need to know about you from your early years to understand the person you’ve become. What was your childhood like?
Saima Butt:
Childhood so I was actually born in Kenya
Andy & Chris:
Oh, okay.
Saima Butt:
and I didn’t move here till I was Six seven years old so my early childhood was spent in the Sun
Andy & Chris:
Oh.
Saima Butt:
We lived a part of our lives by the beach as well close family a small family just my father mother and one little sister and Yeah, and then then then we came to the UK dad went straight to the Middle East from there. So I saw very little of dad, unfortunately, growing up, which kind of made the bond between mum, my sister, you know, very, very close, very close. It was just three ladies in the house.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm. Mmm.
Saima Butt:
Very new experience for my mum, for us, you know, it was a complete culture shock.
Andy & Chris:
What
Saima Butt:
I
Andy & Chris:
did
Saima Butt:
know
Andy & Chris:
your
Saima Butt:
we
Andy & Chris:
dad
Saima Butt:
arrived,
Andy & Chris:
do Simon?
Saima Butt:
my dad’s in sales.
Andy & Chris:
Oh, well, okay.
Saima Butt:
Yeah, yeah, he’s in sales, but for international territories in
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
electrical. So he was always a techie man. And I guess that’s kind of my mind. And he’d sit with
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
me, you know, when we met, he’d often sit with me and talk me through things. I guess my brain just kind
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
of was wired that way from the beginning.
Andy & Chris:
So that must have been quite hard for you. So I guess you’ve got some some very early But faded memories of Kenya if you came over when you were six and then
Saima Butt:
Mm-hmm.
Andy & Chris:
what’s the there were periods of months where you just didn’t see your father
Saima Butt:
yeah dad
Andy & Chris:
That’s
Saima Butt:
would
Andy & Chris:
hard
Saima Butt:
visit very hard very hard also i think we were very young i think probably more safe for my mom you know
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
and and seeing those effects and seeing her coping with walking us to school in the snow you know snow is something we’ve never seen so
Andy & Chris:
Ha
Saima Butt:
new to
Andy & Chris:
ha ha
Saima Butt:
us
Andy & Chris:
ha ha.
Saima Butt:
um the dark nights i think we came in the month of july i remember because the days were super long and it was like wow this place
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Saima Butt:
is amazing like the days
Andy & Chris:
Hahaha.
Saima Butt:
are so
Andy & Chris:
Ahem.
Saima Butt:
long
Andy & Chris:
Ahem.
Saima Butt:
we have sunshine and It was all about sort of trips to Hyde Park with my cousins. So my whole dad’s family was already, you know, very much settled in the UK. Um, and so that’s where we ended up and where dad was going to then be traveling and sort of looking after the Middle Eastern Africa region. He wanted mom, me and my sister to be with family, with extended family. Yeah. Cause
Andy & Chris:
Ah,
Saima Butt:
something that was
Andy & Chris:
so that was why you came to the UK then? Um,
Saima Butt:
That was the driver, yeah, absolutely.
Andy & Chris:
where was home? Is that sort of London or
Saima Butt:
Home
Andy & Chris:
elsewhere?
Saima Butt:
is South London in Croydon.
Andy & Chris:
Ah, okay.
Saima Butt:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, South London. And this is where they all were, you know, my whole family and still very much are. Everyone’s based in the South. So yeah, so that was sort of early years. And it just made a super tight knit with my mom. My biggest inspiration, to be honest with you, you know, just in the face of hardships. And she had many, she had many to struggle with because she left everything she knew there.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
And kind of seeing that was tough. It was tough as a kid,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
but I think it makes you resilient. You
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
know, everything’s not always peachy, but it was great.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
It just
Andy & Chris:
It’s
Saima Butt:
formed
Andy & Chris:
funny
Saima Butt:
such
Andy & Chris:
that…
Saima Butt:
an amazing bond.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, it’s funny that thing you say about resilience, isn’t it? There’s lots of talk about resilience and how do you get resilience into young people? And, you know, you got your resilience through the experience. And if you hadn’t gone through that experience, you wouldn’t have… Because resilience is within you, isn’t it? It’s like your own resilience. You have to… You can’t learn it from a book, can you? No, no, you can’t kind of pass on. I am getting
Saima Butt:
You can’t.
Andy & Chris:
to be resilient. But
Saima Butt:
You can’t.
Andy & Chris:
hearing you say it makes you resilient. And as a young person, that’s a great life skill to… have early on because you know particularly it will come on to kind of your your kind of business life you know it’s not always plain sailing what was school like you know if you’re six coming into a
Saima Butt:
Well.
Andy & Chris:
school well that must have been an interesting experience could
Saima Butt:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
you could
Saima Butt:
it was.
Andy & Chris:
you could you speak English back then Simon? Right
Saima Butt:
Well, we went to an English school. Yeah, absolutely. So we were there, you know, even my, my kindergarten was a British
Andy & Chris:
But…
Saima Butt:
St. Mark’s. I remember it well. Um, and, um, yeah, so, and then, yeah, when it was all English schools, it was all the English education system there. So English was actually, my written English was apparently better than, you know, I was ahead, I was way ahead of myself, English,
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
Saima Butt:
maths. Um, and I kind of had to get told to kind of slow down in class. funnily
Andy & Chris:
Ease back
Saima Butt:
enough,
Andy & Chris:
a bit.
Saima Butt:
he’s back and I’d go back
Andy & Chris:
That’s
Saima Butt:
to
Andy & Chris:
interesting.
Saima Butt:
mum and I’d go back to mum and say, mum, do you know, on maths, they’re still doing this. She was like, what? And we’d been doing that sort of previously, maybe a year ago,
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Saima Butt:
back in Kenya. So yeah, I think certainly the earlier education was far ahead for me. You know, I was writing joined up and I was told to start sort of unjoining my writing and start writing. Just, yeah. So it kind of almost felt like a backwards step initially.
Andy & Chris:
That is, that’s really hard as well. I imagine that must be really hard to sort of undo something you’ve learnt. Yeah, but that’s the way school works school works on on on averages doesn’t it? And I think the kind of school and the curricular system’s brilliant if you’re johnny average or jennifer and average But if you if you’re
Saima Butt:
Hahaha.
Andy & Chris:
one way or the if you’re one way or the other it doesn’t work So for somebody like you it it sounds ridiculous that you’ve kind of got a wind back The stuff you’ve learned to fall in line
Saima Butt:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
with average and everybody else and
Saima Butt:
absolutely.
Andy & Chris:
what was it like that? What were the other the children like in the school were they sort of quite welcoming or they’re a bit weird?
Saima Butt:
you know what, I found I had to do obviously a lot of work and well out of my comfort zone, you know, so kids being kids would ask me a million questions, what’s it like there and you know, they had their own kind of notion about what Africa in itself was like and I was like,
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Saima Butt:
no, it’s nothing like that, you know. So I think intrigue would get people to speak to me a lot. yeah, like I said, a lot of that effort had to be made for me because they were very much kind of friends and everyone was kind of
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Saima Butt:
together. And I was, yeah, I guess I was the odd one at the time. So again, you know, you have to come home and say, Oh, you know, my mom would be obviously very concerned. You know, did you make any friends today? Kind of regular questions that you get asked. I
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
was like, yeah, no, it was good. It was good. And I was, I guess I was always a bit of an outgoing personality because
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Saima Butt:
yeah, you know, Andy, if you ever get to meet my mom, Chris, you know,
Andy & Chris:
Have
Saima Butt:
you’ll
Andy & Chris:
a curry.
Saima Butt:
Yeah, hell yeah, or two or three. But you know, I’m just like her. Honestly, everyone just says that you’re just a copy of her.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
So yeah, I guess it wasn’t really difficult for memory, to be honest. And I loved sports. I loved sports. Did every sport was, you know, went on even in high school to be sort of the captain of every team because I just
Andy & Chris:
Oh well.
Saima Butt:
really, really enjoyed sports. Did a lot of it back home in Kenya as well.
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
Saima Butt:
And yeah, so just came here and just carried that on. And that was, again, a massive thing for
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Saima Butt:
me. It was quite big here, you know, so you had your netball, you had your rounders, your hockey. So yeah, that was all good fun, really good fun.
Andy & Chris:
It’s quite nice to hear your experience has been good because we speak to lots of people who’ve joined us from overseas And yeah, they’re now core to the dental community and friends But you hear it’s quite heartbreaking to hear the stories of when they came to the UK and they might have suffered racism Or just felt
Saima Butt:
Definitely.
Andy & Chris:
lonely and stuff. So it’s quite nice to hear that, you know, you were welcomed
Saima Butt:
Yeah, no, definitely. And I think, I’ll be honest with you, I guess it’s where you are as well. I think Croydon
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
has always been very multicultural. So, you know, I wasn’t the only Brown kid in the school, as it were.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
So there was a lot of Asian children who, you know, at that point, you kind of look, you’re looking for relatability,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
Saima Butt:
right, because everyone looks different. So, yeah, so it wasn’t hard and teachers were great as well, you know. got on with everyone and they really supported me through which again, I know that’s not everyone’s experience but yeah, I can only talk positively of that.
Andy & Chris:
That’s great. And then it sounds like you perhaps lent on some of your your father’s experience and there’s all the tech side of things Because you did you did IT at university as a degree was that was that?
Saima Butt:
I did business and marketing.
Andy & Chris:
Right,
Saima Butt:
Yeah, my BA
Andy & Chris:
ah,
Saima Butt:
was,
Andy & Chris:
okay
Saima Butt:
I could have just done the usual business admin, but I chose to do business marketing because
Andy & Chris:
Right.
Saima Butt:
I always had a creative side to me as well. So
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
I thought, well, you know, now I’ll kind of do a combined degree and I’ll put marketing into that as well, because it always interested me, you know, the branding and
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
all that kind of thing. And even my dissertation was on Pepsi Cola actually, and when Pepsi went blue. from the white
Andy & Chris:
Right.
Saima Butt:
can,
Andy & Chris:
Oh
Saima Butt:
so
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Saima Butt:
it was based on branding, so was it successful, you know, the rebrand and so on. So yeah, always like that side of things.
Andy & Chris:
You sound quite front foot. Yes. Yeah. When going to school, doing the sports and you know, doing that stuff’s quite interesting because obviously that has helped. Yeah. Develop where you are. It’s, it’s quite fascinating. Yeah, no, absolutely.
Saima Butt:
Aww.
Andy & Chris:
Well, no, no. You and from my account of you, you’re, you’re, you’re very front foot. And then you went into the world. Then you went
Saima Butt:
No
Andy & Chris:
into the world. No, you are. You are. Did she stand on yours or something? So it sounds like she was
Saima Butt:
I’m
Andy & Chris:
like,
Saima Butt:
tiny
Andy & Chris:
Oh,
Saima Butt:
by
Andy & Chris:
front
Saima Butt:
the way.
Andy & Chris:
foot. Oh, there we go. There you go.
Saima Butt:
There’s
Andy & Chris:
It’s your
Saima Butt:
only
Andy & Chris:
toe.
Saima Butt:
one person that’d be standing on anyone. I’m tiny compared
Andy & Chris:
I
Saima Butt:
to… compared to
Andy & Chris:
was going
Saima Butt:
Andy.
Andy & Chris:
to say, I’m not tiring. So then you went into the world of telecoms. You took your degree and your learning, you went into that world. Was telecoms a passion or was it just a job?
Saima Butt:
No, it was just, it was, um, obviously you come out of university and you’re like, what do I do? And I applied to all the big companies. I applied to like Coca-Cola, BA. Um, nothing came from that. And then a friend of mine said, um, I’ve got a friend who has a telecoms company in Kingston, uh, who was at the time
Andy & Chris:
It’s the way
Saima Butt:
the
Andy & Chris:
she
Saima Butt:
biggest,
Andy & Chris:
said,
Saima Butt:
um,
Andy & Chris:
I’ve got a friend. It’s almost like I actually have got a friend.
Saima Butt:
I’ve got friends.
Andy & Chris:
It’s like, I’m trying to justify, I’ve got a friend. No, no, seriously,
Saima Butt:
So
Andy & Chris:
I have
Saima Butt:
yeah,
Andy & Chris:
got a friend. Sorry, I butted in there, just made
Saima Butt:
that’s
Andy & Chris:
me laugh.
Saima Butt:
okay. It’s all right. So yeah, so he had a telecoms company, which is probably the biggest accessories. Remember when non genuine accessories for mobile phones were like a massive thing. And every time
Andy & Chris:
Oh
Saima Butt:
you
Andy & Chris:
yeah,
Saima Butt:
bought
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Saima Butt:
a mobile phone, you’d get a hands free, a leather
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
case and
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
a car charger with it.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
So they did those kind of trio packs. I’m beginning to show my age rapidly here.
Andy & Chris:
I
Saima Butt:
So it was a company called the Accessory People, TAP. So that was my first job. And I applied as a marketing assistant under the marketing manager for that. And really, really enjoyed it. Did all their promotions, their email shots and things like that. Designed those on PowerPoint back then. And these email shots would go out once a week and then the phones would just go mental. So every mobile phone distributor in the country would basically phone every mobile phone shop and order just thousands of these kits to give away with their contract phones. And then I started giving the director advice on sales and things and he said, why did you apply for a marketing job? You should be in sales. And I said, no, no, no, no, I don’t want to be in sales. I like the creative aspect of it. I like designing these
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
things. But I think off the back of that, you could do this and you could… And I just… got funneled into a sales job and then I got headhunted from there to another company called Sprint that were based in Park Royal in North West London. So yeah, I just went from marketing to sales.
Andy & Chris:
Right, yeah. And they are very distinct. Yeah, I was gonna say, it’s funny,
Saima Butt:
Very.
Andy & Chris:
isn’t it, that people kind of… Bucket, they put them in the same bucket. Yeah. Sales and marketing director. Yeah, sales and marketing.
Saima Butt:
Nah.
Andy & Chris:
As a pair, they sit quite nicely, don’t they? But yeah, you’re right.
Saima Butt:
completely different.
Andy & Chris:
Marketing and sales, it’s like, you know, someone’s a good footballer, so you make them a football manager. You know,
Saima Butt:
No,
Andy & Chris:
they’re not
Saima Butt:
we
Andy & Chris:
the
Saima Butt:
know
Andy & Chris:
same
Saima Butt:
how that
Andy & Chris:
thing.
Saima Butt:
goes.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So- Let’s not talk about Frank Lampard. So did
Saima Butt:
Oh, Chris.
Andy & Chris:
you not enjoy the sales side as much as you enjoyed the marketing? Is that kind of where you’re sort of going with that?
Saima Butt:
Do you know what? Initially I didn’t. Because it was just so pressurized. These phones would just go off and you just speak to one person. Everyone was after a deal and it was just
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
like, oh gosh, how have I ended up here? You know, but one thing I always enjoyed was speaking to people. Relationships. And, you know, again, I’ll bring my mum back into this, but you know, she said, you know, working on relationships was like one of the most important things and it would take you. if you invested in your relationships, that that would really, really serve you well in life and seeing those relationships grow. And
Andy & Chris:
Good advice, really
Saima Butt:
yeah,
Andy & Chris:
good advice.
Saima Butt:
yeah, definitely. And yeah, so I loved speaking to people and I then became head of the biggest accounts for that company because those people wanted to deal with me. So it was lovely. Yeah, the aspect of talking to people and the account management side of thing was really good. I enjoyed that.
Andy & Chris:
Cool. And then… You say, we had a chat before we started,
Saima Butt:
Mm-hmm.
Andy & Chris:
and you said you wanted to work for yourself. I thought if you apply the same enthusiasm and energy, you give to your job, to my own business, it might just work. Which
Saima Butt:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
I think is great in that you’re saying there’s more than this. But Chris and I have this whole thing that that’s a long way from starting your own business. And in life, I’m a firm believer that you need a push and a pull. If there’s gonna be significant change, you need to be drawn towards something, which I guess ultimately has become on whole communications and we’ll
Saima Butt:
Hmm.
Andy & Chris:
have a chat about that. But what was it that kind of pushed and pulled you at that time? Because having an idea and going from an idea to actually setting up your own business. Taking a risk. I was going to say the world is full of one-openers. There’s so many one-openers. These are people that kind of listen to podcasts, they read books, they go on courses, but they don’t ever take action. So what was it in you that meant that you became an entrepreneur, you took that action?
Saima Butt:
You know, I think it’s weird. I think I always wanted to kind of make my parents proud. I guess that was my push. And I thought I think this would, especially my dad, you know, he always said, look, you don’t know what direction your life could take you in.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
And you know, the sort of backgrounds that we come from, it’s quite mapped out for us. You know, you get your education. and then you get married and etc etc etc. And
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Saima Butt:
it’s quite pain that way. One thing he said, he said, look, my dad wasn’t as traditional in that way. He was very much about his two daughters should be educated, should be able to kind of look after themselves and, you know, aspire to do well, whatever you do, put 100% into it. And
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Saima Butt:
kind of what better way to see that out, almost like a case study,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
you know, what better way to sort of have an idea. show him that I could implement that and make that a success. You know, and having mum on my side, like my biggest cheerleader, it was, again, it’s… I guess it’s just, that was my driver, really. The push was definitely, you know, wanting to do this and make my family proud and show
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
them that this is something that I’ve achieved for myself, you know, I did this. Hey, you know…
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
this is what it is. I think that’s the biggest thing it was for me.
Andy & Chris:
I think that’s really cool. Was your dad back in the UK now? Or was this kind of still
Saima Butt:
No,
Andy & Chris:
a
Saima Butt:
dad.
Andy & Chris:
remote relationship?
Saima Butt:
Very remote. Yeah, dad only came back into the UK about six years ago. So
Andy & Chris:
Oh well. Okay so…
Saima Butt:
35 years in the Middle East, my dad was. Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
Saima Butt:
Yeah, yeah, I think he, he liked the lifestyle there, but he liked the travel.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
Again, it’s probably where I’ve got the travel bug from as well. But he loved to travel. He loved to travel. He loved to see people, ironically, talk to people, build relationships. And it’s weird, I think you just kind of morph into these people without, without
Andy & Chris:
I
Saima Butt:
realizing
Andy & Chris:
was going to
Saima Butt:
it.
Andy & Chris:
say they’re all the things that you love about life as well. Yeah, you
Saima Butt:
Exactly.
Andy & Chris:
sort of slight osmosis creeps in. So when did you set up your business?
Saima Butt:
2002,
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Saima Butt:
on hold, yeah, yeah, 2002. The last job I had prior to setting it up was in an audio marketing company. And I just, you know, it was such a new market here. In the US,
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Saima Butt:
it was massive at the time, but in the UK, we hadn’t even scratched the surface for on-hold marketing, the potential that that could have. So I thought, well, this is new, this is a niche.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
The only thing that the UK knew about on hold was green sleeves.
Andy & Chris:
hahahaha
Saima Butt:
People would kind of listen endlessly to green sleeves while they were trying to get through.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
Frustrating, companies would lose business. So I thought, well, this is great. In a way, on hold marketing, it would bring in some of my marketing experience,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
because be verbal. and you know working with voice over artists and kind
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Saima Butt:
of devising these on hold marketing messages but also the marketing and the branding side of your own business you know
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
I thought these I could I could I could really showcase both these things together
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
and yeah and
Andy & Chris:
Did
Saima Butt:
so
Andy & Chris:
you just
Saima Butt:
so
Andy & Chris:
start…
Saima Butt:
came on hold cons
Andy & Chris:
was it just you on your own to start with or did you have a team
Saima Butt:
I,
Andy & Chris:
and…
Saima Butt:
yeah, it was me and one of my best friends at the time actually in the start, Nadia was also part of that. But yeah, our fan who’s very much, very much part of the company has been by my side from day one. You know, he was there with me and met him at college. And again, see, it’s relationships for me, you know,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
and we’ve been together 21 years now doing this and people know our fan probably as much
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
as if not more than me. because once the sales side is done, he deals with all the off to sale side of things.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
So yeah, yeah, it was the two of us. We’re still here. It’s still a very small team because it’s about giving people a personal experience for me.
Andy & Chris:
And what was it like in the early days, you know, quite often? You know, we see we see successful businesses like your own that seem to just kind of be in the fabric of dentistry But
Saima Butt:
Mm-hmm.
Andy & Chris:
what what was it like in the early days? How hard was it? What were the things that you you were surprised that you had to learn and the bits and kind of really stuck with you? What was the hardest because you were founder you’re a founder There are
Saima Butt:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
lots of people tricky lots of people will will buy a business But literally opening the door with a blank piece of paper and saying right how are we going to do this? How hard was it?
Saima Butt:
It was really difficult,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
really difficult. And you know, being a woman in telecoms wasn’t easy. Even talking
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
to your suppliers and so on, you know, you’d go and have supplier meetings and they’d look straight over me and onto our fan. It was like,
Andy & Chris:
Oh really?
Saima Butt:
hello,
Andy & Chris:
Wow. Ah yeah.
Saima Butt:
I’m gonna sign the checks, talk to me, I’m here, that kind
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Saima Butt:
of thing.
Andy & Chris:
I
Saima Butt:
No.
Andy & Chris:
see you’ve brought your secretary with you.
Saima Butt:
Well, literally, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, literally, even the early meetings I went into, people wouldn’t talk to me. I was kind of taking notes quietly in the corner observing, you know, quite happy to, I don’t have an issue with that. But it’s, yeah, it was difficult. And I think for us, and in particular getting into dentistry, one of the biggest challenges we faced was trying to convince dentists that we weren’t just selling them a glorified answering machine, you know. that they could pick up in Curry’s for £50. So you’d go in and you’d be
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
like, well, we don’t need that. We just need an answering machine. It was like, no, no, you really do. Because your phones are engaged the whole time.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm, yeah.
Saima Butt:
But I think because the patient journey wasn’t such a big thing then as it is
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
now, now we’re talking about patient journeys. You know,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
back then it was very much, you know, practices focused on their NHS base,
Andy & Chris:
I was
Saima Butt:
you
Andy & Chris:
going
Saima Butt:
know.
Andy & Chris:
to ask you that. Did you notice after the new contract and then sort of things that how your clientele has changed I’d imagine.
Saima Butt:
Massively, massively, you know, they now see the opportunity in it. Back then it was really hard, really hard to sell.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Saima Butt:
You were selling a concept that they just didn’t think they needed, simple
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
as that. But now, you know, today it’s viewed as a key opportunity to
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
retain business, to reduce caller abandonment and so on. But yeah, back then, their phones would ring nonstop.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
And I had dentists saying to me, it’s okay if it’s engaged, they’ll call back. It’s not a problem. Why am I going to pay this subscription
Andy & Chris:
And also,
Saima Butt:
a month?
Andy & Chris:
back then, they weren’t
Saima Butt:
Hmm…
Andy & Chris:
well. People
Saima Butt:
They burn.
Andy & Chris:
would. And I suppose where there was a more significant… of the population accessing NHS dentistry. That’s what they did. And also they were quite forgiving. Whereas now people will hop between dental practices much more readily. Just to kind of give us a bit of an anchor here. Can you just explain to us what it is that On-Hole Communications does? What did your company do for dental practices? Should we pause there?
Saima Butt:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Play some music.
Saima Butt:
So we provide complete telecom solutions, so the whole infrastructure, your phones, your internet, your Wi-Fi, call recording, call reporting, so the metrics on those, you know, on the calls that come in, how many calls they’re missing. So it’s very much become an integral part of the business and especially in private dentistry, you know, our strap that we use a lot is… what is the cost of a missed call?
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
And the minute you say that now to a dentist, it resonates straight away because I
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
say, well, look, Invisalign, you miss an Invisalign inquiry, what’s
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
that worth? Straight away, you’re talking four figures.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
So then X amount a month doesn’t sound like too much. And it’s a scalable solution now. So it’s a cloud-based solution. It’s subscription-based. So it’s very good. It can be a small, even for a small squat. you know, 30 pounds a month, for example, you know, and you’ve got everything that I’ve just spoken to you about within that. Whereas before you couldn’t do it when things were hardware based. So essentially just providing, just providing complete telecom solutions, bidding to end, you know, and then advising them on how they should be managing their calls and giving ongoing training based on that as well. Showing them how to use call recording to help train their staff, you know, on how things should be done, how things shouldn’t be done. It’s an incredible tool for insight.
Andy & Chris:
So it’s really moved on from the beginning which was
Saima Butt:
Exactly.
Andy & Chris:
literally basically on hold messaging or on hold music.
Saima Butt:
correct, yeah, because we’d go into sell on hold and we’d
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Saima Butt:
realize that majority of businesses in the UK, especially dental practices, didn’t even have a phone system, you know.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm. Just
Saima Butt:
And
Andy & Chris:
that
Saima Butt:
initially,
Andy & Chris:
one line, yeah.
Saima Butt:
exactly one line and that fax was on there and the PDQ machine
Andy & Chris:
I say
Saima Butt:
was
Andy & Chris:
do you
Saima Butt:
on
Andy & Chris:
remember
Saima Butt:
there.
Andy & Chris:
those days when you couldn’t
Saima Butt:
Everything
Andy & Chris:
you couldn’t
Saima Butt:
was on
Andy & Chris:
answer
Saima Butt:
there.
Andy & Chris:
the phone because she’s almost taking a payment on
Saima Butt:
That’s
Andy & Chris:
a PDQ I’d forget
Saima Butt:
it. It sounds
Andy & Chris:
I’d forgotten
Saima Butt:
ludicrous.
Andy & Chris:
about that. It’s
Saima Butt:
You know,
Andy & Chris:
mad
Saima Butt:
there’s still a few out there with that, believe me.
Andy & Chris:
It is bonkers when you think about it. Talk about
Saima Butt:
It’s
Andy & Chris:
business
Saima Butt:
crazy.
Andy & Chris:
obstruction tools. Unbelievable.
Saima Butt:
Exactly. And you just think, well, mis-calls actually means mis-revenue.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
But yeah, it’s just like you said at the time, it was a different, for different precedents, you know, oh, they’ll call back, it’s not a problem.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Saima Butt:
But now they realize how important and that patient journey begins
Andy & Chris:
Mmm. Mmm.
Saima Butt:
with that first call. Because 60% of first contact is still made on the phone. And that’s, you know,
Andy & Chris:
Wow, that’s a lot,
Saima Butt:
yeah.
Andy & Chris:
isn’t it?
Saima Butt:
Yeah, people, you know, people think people just do web inquiries
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
and so on. But yeah, still, still the majority percentage
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
of people still pick up the phone. Now that
Andy & Chris:
But
Saima Butt:
may
Andy & Chris:
also,
Saima Butt:
change.
Andy & Chris:
yeah,
Saima Butt:
That may change,
Andy & Chris:
but also
Saima Butt:
but
Andy & Chris:
I just
Saima Butt:
I think.
Andy & Chris:
think dentistry has just got way more competitive. You know, we speak to lots of dentists in the different
Saima Butt:
sure.
Andy & Chris:
things that we do. And, and, you know, it has, it’s got way more competitive and particularly when you’re talking about some of those premium services, you know, you mentioned Invisalign, you know, where there’s high margin treatments out there, you know, the competition
Saima Butt:
Mm-hmm.
Andy & Chris:
for those is enormous. So if somebody does make contact to your practice, you want to make sure that they’re, they’re harnessed and loved and dealt with in a professional way so that you can really maximise the conversion of those.
Saima Butt:
That’s it.
Andy & Chris:
How was it that you decided upon dentistry as your niche? Because that’s
Saima Butt:
Thank you. Bye.
Andy & Chris:
not an obvious one for what you do to where you are. How was it that you ended up supporting dentistry?
Saima Butt:
It was, funnily enough, it all started with a dental appointment, believe it or not.
Andy & Chris:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Saima Butt:
Sounds crazy, but I had the most wonderful dentist, Dr. Mani Vasant, I believe he’s now retired, but very, very well respected, very
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
well known back then.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
Just generally, he’s giving me my usual checkup and he said, what are you doing now, Simon? Your mum says that you started your own business. I said, yeah, yeah, I have actually. I said, got an audio marketing company and we do on hold messaging. He actually had a phone system. So he was well ahead. I get, you know, he was well ahead of his time even then,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
you know, and people used to benchmark themselves against him like all the
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Saima Butt:
time. Um, and he said, well, I’ve got a Panasonic phone system. Would that work on a Panasonic system? I said, oh yeah, brilliant. Yeah, of course it would. He goes, right. Okay. How much is it going to cost? Wrote me a checkout there and then I went back and I was like, oh, fan, I’ve got my first dental practice on board. He said,
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Saima Butt:
no, did you just go for an appointment? I said, yeah, I did. But
Andy & Chris:
hahahaha
Saima Butt:
look, Manny’s written me a checkout and we need to, and yeah, and that was it. And he was very close to, worked very closely with a Henry Shine rep back then,
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
Saima Butt:
Jackie Purvis, who sadly passed away and is no longer here. But he said, look, I’m going to introduce you to Jackie and she’s going to put you in touch because I think you’ve got a great product and I really want to support you. And Yeah, and I’m
Andy & Chris:
Smile.
Saima Butt:
going to put you in touch and got in touch with her. I had a coffee with her, I remember, when she came down to see Manny.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
And we just never looked back from there because he just introduced us to so many people as did she.
Andy & Chris:
Brilliant.
Saima Butt:
And it’s a small market, you know, everyone talks to everyone. And yeah, it was great. I think
Andy & Chris:
And
Saima Butt:
we
Andy & Chris:
your
Saima Butt:
did
Andy & Chris:
mum
Saima Butt:
it.
Andy & Chris:
and your mum started it all
Saima Butt:
Look at that.
Andy & Chris:
well and you know greatest supporters ever mothers Yeah,
Saima Butt:
Oh,
Andy & Chris:
but I
Saima Butt:
amazing.
Andy & Chris:
think you said about your mum and your dad, your mum being your greatest cheerleader, your dad kind of instilling in you the importance of relationships. And that then manifests itself with the relationship you have with Manny, your dentist, who then
Saima Butt:
Big.
Andy & Chris:
introduced you to someone from Henry Shine, and you build a relationship there. And 22 years later, you’ve got on-home communication. You can see the threads, can’t you, all there, that all wave together, huh?
Saima Butt:
It’s crazy, you know, Manny is funny because I’d always be scared of him because he’d tell me off. You know, see, it was like going to see your dad.
Andy & Chris:
Hahaha
Saima Butt:
You loved him, but really, I had just had so much respect for him, you
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
know, and how’s your exams going? You studying? I hope you’re not distracting yourself with anything. I was like, no, no, no, no,
Andy & Chris:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Saima Butt:
I’m studying hard. He goes, all right, I want to see good results. And you know, that’d be the kind of conversations we’d have. And it was great. It was great. So when this came up, exactly that, exactly that, you know. And yeah, he just said, look, put it in here first and
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
let’s see how we go. And, you know, his friends started calling up, listening to it, colleagues and so on. Mani, this is great. You know,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
so I must speak to Simon just to be getting lots of Mani’s dental colleagues on the mobile phone, you know, asking for the same. So it was great.
Andy & Chris:
There can’t be many people in dentistry that have owned and run a business for as long as you. You know, 21 years, that’s a real… You must have been quite young. Yeah.
Saima Butt:
Oh yeah, 12.
Andy & Chris:
I think you might be lying. But that’s… So you’ve kind of told us kind of how it’s gone, but… That’s the sale, isn’t it? Yeah.
Saima Butt:
Hahaha!
Andy & Chris:
But what’s the best thing that it’s done for you? What’s been the hardest thing? You know, what are the extremes of it? You know, how good has it gone? How bad has it got?
Saima Butt:
You know what, Andy, I’d be lying if I said that was bad. We’ve been through two, three recessions and, you know, touchwood, just always been really, really blessed now. You know, again, I don’t know whether that’s that formation of relationships,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
but even through COVID, okay? So COVID, okay, challenging. I guess COVID was our biggest challenge because obviously all dental practices kind of shut down.
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Saima Butt:
And for the first time in 19 years at the time, 20 years, it was just like, the phones weren’t ringing
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Saima Butt:
and
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Saima Butt:
it was just like, oh wow, what’s going to happen? I think it was for everyone really. It wasn’t
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Saima Butt:
just for us.
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Saima Butt:
But the
Andy & Chris:
Delivery.
Saima Butt:
amount, well apart from delivery, yeah. I mean the amount of phone calls that I got or WhatsApp messages to say, look, we’re still here, we’ll be back. Can we pause our direct debits for now? Do you mind? Because literally there is zero income. I was like, absolutely no problem. Pause them away. You know, no one’s working right now.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
It’s absolutely fine. And I think the way that we reacted to their kind of adversity at the time, having to shut down suddenly, call
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Saima Butt:
diverts,
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Saima Butt:
that first two or three days, we were receiving in the region of three to 400 calls. And we were working from seven in the morning to about eight, nine at night. And that’s just putting diverts on. for dental practices,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Saima Butt:
you know.
Andy & Chris:
I think I think there’s some of the actions that you take then with Because you could have probably said no, we’re not going to pause your direct debits under our agreement but I think things like that are what sets you apart and builds those relationships for sure
Saima Butt:
Chris,
Andy & Chris:
because
Saima Butt:
they go a long way.
Andy & Chris:
Because
Saima Butt:
They
Andy & Chris:
people
Saima Butt:
go a
Andy & Chris:
remember
Saima Butt:
really long
Andy & Chris:
they
Saima Butt:
way.
Andy & Chris:
got long memories and they remember when you stood by them When they because at those early months nobody really knew what was going to happen today. It was all a bit weird really
Saima Butt:
No one knew, no one knew. And these, and it’s for the first time, I think people were actually worried.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
When we open up, is it ever gonna be the same? You know, sadly, yeah, I know a couple of practice that never did reopen, you know,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
or then sold,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
you know, sold their clinics, because they just,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
the stress was just too much.
Andy & Chris:
Mm. Mm.
Saima Butt:
But I think it’s showing understanding at that point is just so important.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, it is definitely. And what
Saima Butt:
Because
Andy & Chris:
you say is right. We’ve been through, you know, we’ve been through a number of recessions, but there’s, there’s history books that tell us how long a recession lasts and what it looks like. Yeah, it might be a V, it might be a W recession, but we kind of come through a recession. So there’s, there’s an experience, but we’ve never been through a pandemic because,
Saima Butt:
never.
Andy & Chris:
you know, I guess the Spanish flu was probably the last one and people weren’t really around for that. So even
Saima Butt:
Hehehe
Andy & Chris:
me, it, it, even you.
Saima Butt:
I’m sorry.
Andy & Chris:
So there wasn’t really a rule book for how a modern economy would cope with that. But I think what you did and what lots of smart people did is they kind of went back to first principles and said, look, how do I want to be treated and how do I deliver good service except in the situations of it, you know, uneasy at the moment. I think the people that did that and the people that stepped forward and provided support and guidance, those are the people who actually have done well coming out of back of it and so they should do. Stand with you. Yeah, so they should do because
Saima Butt:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
we know there were industry who didn’t do that. They were like, no, no, pay your bills. I don’t care about what’s happening. You know, you need to just keep doing what you’re doing. Whereas most of the profession actually kind of ran it together and kind of everybody helped one another. And that’s great to see here that you did that and it’s served you well and so it should.
Saima Butt:
Thank you. Thank you, Andy. It’s just whatever we could do to help at the time. I think for us, if you just look at any of the reviews, we tend to be mentioned quite a bit on the Dentist for Dentists Facebook forum.
Andy & Chris:
But yeah.
Saima Butt:
When people ask for recommendations on telecoms providers. I think
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Saima Butt:
it’s just one thing that comes up time and time again is their service.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
It’s accessibility, you know, whenever
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
you need them, you can get hold of them. Which for a lot of people, it’s very nine to five and telecom, certainly, you know,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
you call BT past a certain time and you’ll go through to an overseas call center and you just won’t be able to get through to anyone.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah.
Saima Butt:
But, you know,
Andy & Chris:
And we all know what that feels like as well, which is pretty rubbish. Do you just exclusive to operate in dentistry? Or do you have some accounts outside of dentistry?
Saima Butt:
Do you know what we do, but very few now,
Andy & Chris:
Right, okay,
Saima Butt:
like I’d
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Saima Butt:
say, when
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Saima Butt:
I
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Saima Butt:
say 99.99%
Andy & Chris:
Right.
Saima Butt:
is dentistry, it’s just got our hands full with that. And it’s good to have one focus, I think, I do believe
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
that.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
But yeah, from the earlier days, yeah, we still, funny enough is people don’t tend to leave us. So from the earlier days, we’ve got a few travel companies, like big corporate travel companies
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
that still get their own hold marketing through us.
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
Saima Butt:
Not the phones, ironically, but the marketing is still done through us
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
Saima Butt:
on the audio side of things. But yeah, there’s a few businesses, a few property businesses that still use us. But yeah, it’s dentists. Dentists and that’s
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Saima Butt:
it, yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Cool. We’ve met a couple of times at some dental events recently and you were telling me about your mum’s curries and you were saying, you know, mum still brings curries around and you were saying how great they are. But I had got this real sense from you that it wasn’t just about the food, it was about like the family culture. And is that kind of, is it really important to you, that kind of food and family? Is that something that actually is, you know, quite deep in your family?
Saima Butt:
Oh God, it’s honestly, you will not believe it. You know, we’re a family that we wake up, well, actually we go to sleep talking about what we’re gonna have for breakfast the next morning. You
Andy & Chris:
Hahaha
Saima Butt:
know, at breakfast you’re talking about lunch and at lunch you’re discussing dinner and it’s literally your, you know, planning and,
Andy & Chris:
Just bouncing from food session to food session.
Saima Butt:
this is it, this is it. But you know, one thing mom said, she said, you know, that food is love. She said, you know, and sharing food is the easiest and most genuine way to spread love. And I
Andy & Chris:
I don’t
Saima Butt:
thought…
Andy & Chris:
know, some people have had my cooking. I’m not sure they felt love, I’ll tell you.
Saima Butt:
But you know, you know, you
Andy & Chris:
Well,
Saima Butt:
know, Andy…
Andy & Chris:
initially the sharing was a good idea. Maybe the
Saima Butt:
Sharing
Andy & Chris:
participation.
Saima Butt:
is caring.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
Yeah. I think, you know, I think a point was, look, someone, for someone to cook for you, they’ve taken their time out. And we, you know, South Asian cooking takes time. And you cook with a lot of love, a lot of passion, you know, when you’re doing that, you’re thinking about those people that are going to then come and eat it. And it’s funny because they’re going to restaurants and we have regular restaurants that we go to. I’ll literally say to the chefs, I said, look, make sure you cook it with love. It needs your love. And they’ll just laugh at me, but they know what, they know what I mean. You know,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
they know what I mean. So, you know, I think, I think that’s what it is again. You know, she, she loves to cook. She’s a massive feeder and, feeder, feeder,
Andy & Chris:
Ha ha
Saima Butt:
feeder,
Andy & Chris:
ha ha.
Saima Butt:
you know, and growing up, you know, to this day, her idea of fun is she wants to cook for you. You know,
Andy & Chris:
Right, yeah.
Saima Butt:
her chicken biryani is a massive hit. Her lamb biryanis are hit. But it’s a tonic for everything for mum.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Saima Butt:
And remember where she spent so much time alone,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Saima Butt:
this
Andy & Chris:
true.
Saima Butt:
was her outlet.
Andy & Chris:
Right, yeah.
Saima Butt:
Her outlet was, right, girls are going to come home from school. I want to give them something nice to eat. And whatever kind of day you’d have, if you were down about something, she’d say, right, what would my daughter like to eat today? So that was her tonic for bad. And if you’d had some good news or you celebrate an exam result or… or anything. She’s like, right, would you want me to cook? So it’s literally, it’s the same thing for everything, but it works. You know, it
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
just works because it means you’re sat around a table, sharing time and
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm
Saima Butt:
inevitably that’s all they want.
Andy & Chris:
So do
Saima Butt:
That’s
Andy & Chris:
you
Saima Butt:
all that
Andy & Chris:
cook
Saima Butt:
anyone wants. Right? Can I
Andy & Chris:
yeah
Saima Butt:
cook? I can. I can cook. Yeah. Not as well as my mum, although she says I’m getting close, but I’m
Andy & Chris:
Getting
Saima Butt:
not.
Andy & Chris:
close
Saima Butt:
Oh yeah, she’ll say, Oh, this tastes a bit like mine. I think she’s being polite. But yeah, no, I cook for them often. I cook for them often as well. But yeah, no, no, do love it. Do love food, love cooking. Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
And kind of related to it, you told us that in your handbag, you’ve always got a little packet of chili flakes. Is this to kind of just add your own little spice to life as you head around the place?
Saima Butt:
This is, you see, Beyonce said, I carry hot sauce in my bag, but I carried it long before she even sang
Andy & Chris:
Ha
Saima Butt:
about
Andy & Chris:
ha ha.
Saima Butt:
it. That’s honestly you get these little Tabasco bottles on like a key ring. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen them.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
Yeah, there you go. But the chili flakes thing is pretty good, you see, because you can just season it up a little bit.
Andy & Chris:
You sound like my daughter, my oldest daughter. She went traveling around Central America. And
Saima Butt:
Yeah
Andy & Chris:
after that, she was like, everything’s a bit bland. So she’s like chili flake girl.
Saima Butt:
Yeah, some things, you know, I think I’m getting a little bit better. We’re, I think, trying to appreciate sort of certain cuisines for what they’re supposed to be,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
but it’s just so, it’s just so bad, you know, when
Andy & Chris:
Can
Saima Butt:
you,
Andy & Chris:
you imagine
Saima Butt:
that.
Andy & Chris:
taking her out for dinner? That’d be quite entertaining, wouldn’t it? Where would you go? Like somewhere like Scott’s. Scott’s and Mayfair. Very
Saima Butt:
Please.
Andy & Chris:
nice restaurant and suddenly like your Dover soul appears and
Saima Butt:
you know
Andy & Chris:
you get your little chili flakes and whack it
Saima Butt:
what?
Andy & Chris:
over. Ha ha ha.
Saima Butt:
ohhhh i remember going to the oxo tower and they put this pea soup in front of me and honestly i did it for the life of me know what to do with myself i just kinda looked at it tried some and you know it was delicious as far as pea soup goes
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, but you felt it needed a kick.
Saima Butt:
my chilli flakes came out honestly
Andy & Chris:
Excellents
Saima Butt:
god i’m so terrible
Andy & Chris:
excuse me, madam. Can you put
Saima Butt:
yay
Andy & Chris:
your flakes away, please?
Saima Butt:
No one saw, no one saw. I’ve got it down to a fine art.
Andy & Chris:
Ha ha. Do you like get it out your sleeve or something like that? Like in that film, what was that film where they dug a tunnel? The Great Escape, where they got the earth
Saima Butt:
The
Andy & Chris:
out
Saima Butt:
greatest
Andy & Chris:
their trousers.
Saima Butt:
game, yeah?
Andy & Chris:
It’s a bit like that. Just shaking
Saima Butt:
Something
Andy & Chris:
my hand
Saima Butt:
like that.
Andy & Chris:
over the bowl. I think your story is brilliant. I think the way that the whole family has kind of influenced your career and how you made that bold step to You know form your business and how you’ve evolved it over the years. I think it is I think it’s your like I say, it’s a lovely story and then this is the beauty of doing the podcast Yeah, we get to hear the backstory because lots of people know about on-home communication because you know, you’re well known You attend the shows, you know people, you know use your services, but I think that that history is wonderful And I think the thing is the longer you’re established people don’t bother asking about that stuff. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Because no
Saima Butt:
You’re
Andy & Chris:
one
Saima Butt:
right.
Andy & Chris:
thinks about how you did it. They just see you and no one actually says, so how did it all start then? So I think it’s great to hear. It’s those foundations that kind of, and it sort of makes sense, you know. having got to know you and seeing about your services and how you go about it, that backstory now kind of joins it all together. It makes perfect sense why you are as you are because of your father and because of your mother and because of your upbringing and because you know you have to kind of make friends when you came over from Kenya. It all kind of pulls together so well.
Saima Butt:
Yeah, yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Brilliant.
Saima Butt:
Oh, it’s been great guys. Really, really good fun.
Andy & Chris:
But you don’t get away without answering our two questions.
Saima Butt:
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Andy & Chris:
That’s the way this works. This is the trade-off. Ready for the deep and meaningful answers. So the first question we have for you is if you could be the fly on the wall in a certain situation where would you be and who would be there? We’re interested.
Saima Butt:
You know what? Do you know for me it would probably be the dressing room at Manchester United. Not for the obvious reason which you guys are probably thinking. Obviously that would be a nice part of it too.
Andy & Chris:
Are you a Man U fan?
Saima Butt:
I am, yes sadly, I mean you’re talking about Frank Lampard but we won’t,
Andy & Chris:
No,
Saima Butt:
I won’t, yeah.
Andy & Chris:
no, it’s all about
Saima Butt:
But you
Andy & Chris:
10
Saima Butt:
know
Andy & Chris:
HAUG.
Saima Butt:
what? You know what? I absolutely love Alex Ferguson.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
Grew up with him. dominating and
Andy & Chris:
Yep.
Saima Butt:
I just love the guy. Absolutely love the guy. But I think fascinating for me and the reason for me to be that fly in the wall is one of his pre-match team talks. And again, just the relationships he had with
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Saima Butt:
those players and, and how he was able to motivate a group of 11 men, you know, to win countless matches, leagues, you know, trophies for three decades to just do that, you know, year in, year out. It was. It’s pretty fascinating. There’s some big egos in that dressing room, you know, over
Andy & Chris:
Oh,
Saima Butt:
the years.
Andy & Chris:
oh,
Saima Butt:
Um,
Andy & Chris:
massive, massive.
Saima Butt:
you know, you think about the whole David Beckham incident and so on. And,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
you know, he, he, he was out the door the next day, you know, Roy Keane. He just, I think he had that perfect balance of when knowing when to, and I think it’s, it’s, it’s the man management, knowing when to put your arm around someone
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
and knowing, you know, this guy’s time is up and he was just so good. He was just such a great leader for
Andy & Chris:
And I
Saima Butt:
me.
Andy & Chris:
think he also was able to do it on a, on an individual one-on-one basis. So he wouldn’t
Saima Butt:
Definitely.
Andy & Chris:
have, he wouldn’t have taught, you know, looked after Roy Keane in the same way as he would have at Cantina. Yeah. They would have been
Saima Butt:
No.
Andy & Chris:
dealt, dealt with in completely different. So to understand each of the individual people and have a strategy for how to get the best out of them. Um,
Saima Butt:
This is it.
Andy & Chris:
when you’ve got all that testosterone and egos and,
Saima Butt:
Oh yeah.
Andy & Chris:
and money and celebrity and all that floating around at the same time, yeah, no, he’s quite a remarkable
Saima Butt:
It’d
Andy & Chris:
guy.
Saima Butt:
be very, very, very fascinating to see. Yeah, you know,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
like even with Ronaldo, you know, it was a peak time in the season when
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Saima Butt:
his dad passed away.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
And Fergie just said, just go home. Right
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
now, you need to be with your family.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
You know, so go. And he said, I’ll never forget that
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Saima Butt:
because it was a key time for us, but he was happy to do it without me, you
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
know. And people, like you said, people do not forget that.
Andy & Chris:
No, they don’t.
Saima Butt:
And as a result, he probably gave the club an extra season because
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
of that.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
you know.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. No. Oh, that’s a good one. That’s very good. Very good. And your second
Saima Butt:
Hehehe
Andy & Chris:
question is if you could, if you could meet somebody, if you were given the opportunity to sit down and have a glass of wine or a cup of coffee with somebody, who would you, who would you like to meet?
Saima Butt:
She probably definitely wouldn’t indulge in a glass of wine, but I’d say Malala Yousafzai,
Andy & Chris:
Ah.
Saima Butt:
the female education activist
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Saima Butt:
from Pakistan.
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Saima Butt:
Yeah, just love to meet her. Love to meet her and find out kind of, yeah, her push and pulls, you know, for
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Saima Butt:
what she’s done and, you know, received a Nobel Prize
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, incredible
Saima Butt:
at the end of it.
Andy & Chris:
idea.
Saima Butt:
But
Andy & Chris:
Incredible idea.
Saima Butt:
incredible, you know, to be a school girl
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Saima Butt:
and have that level of conviction.
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Saima Butt:
you know,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, definitely.
Saima Butt:
yeah, quite a remarkable woman. I’d love to meet her.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, no, yeah, it would be amazing be amazing be different. Simon, it’s been it’s been truly, truly wonderful. Honestly,
Saima Butt:
Aww,
Andy & Chris:
it’s it’s it’s been
Saima Butt:
it has.
Andy & Chris:
a cracking story. Like I say, for me, these are the real hidden gems of dentistry. You know, we know lots of the businesses and there’s lots of characters out there. But these backstories just they never cease to amaze me how interesting they are. Yeah, always interesting.
Saima Butt:
Oh, glad, glad I could keep you entertained.
Andy & Chris:
You can relax now. You can like, whew. Yes,
Saima Butt:
and breathe.
Andy & Chris:
exactly. Exactly, exactly. First, that’s your first of many podcasts done now. Yes.
Saima Butt:
Oh,
Andy & Chris:
Chill
Saima Butt:
I’d
Andy & Chris:
out
Saima Butt:
love to
Andy & Chris:
now.
Saima Butt:
be a lot more comfortable, I think, the next time. But thank you so
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Saima Butt:
much. Whose egg timer just went off?
Andy & Chris:
but now. But now. Yeah. Yeah. But. That was me. I’ve got two boiled eggs coming out of the pan in 30 seconds. Yeah.
Saima Butt:
Literally.
Andy & Chris:
But now it has. It’s been really good. Like I say, we appreciate your time and hopefully we’ll be seeing you at a dental event at some time in the future.
Saima Butt:
Oh
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Saima Butt:
yes, definitely. I think October’s the next one. If
Andy & Chris:
I think
Saima Butt:
not
Andy & Chris:
it
Saima Butt:
for
Andy & Chris:
is.
Saima Butt:
a curry before that guys, let me know.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, now that would be good. Obviously
Saima Butt:
Let’s
Andy & Chris:
you’d need
Saima Butt:
let’s
Andy & Chris:
to, we’d have to take your recommendation of course. As to where?
Saima Butt:
Oh
Andy & Chris:
That
Saima Butt:
yeah,
Andy & Chris:
would
Saima Butt:
definitely.
Andy & Chris:
be your mum’s.
Saima Butt:
No,
Andy & Chris:
For your takeaway.
Saima Butt:
she’d be more god, she’d be more than happy if you could do with the running commentary in the background,
Andy & Chris:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Saima Butt:
but yeah, she’d love to. She’d love to, but no, no, no, yeah, definitely. We’ll get something in the diary.
Andy & Chris:
Lovely.
Saima Butt:
Thanks
Andy & Chris:
Brilliant.
Saima Butt:
guys.
Andy & Chris:
Thanks very much. Good to meet you. Thank you.
Saima Butt:
And
Andy & Chris:
Cheers.
Saima Butt:
you,
Andy & Chris:
Bye. Bye.
Saima Butt:
thanks so much, bye.
