Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Simran Bains
Episode Release Date: Monday 12 August 2024
Andy & Chris (00:00.619)
Beautiful summer’s day. It is podcast recording time. It is podcast in our air conditioned studio. Thank goodness. Otherwise we would be looking somewhat hot and sweaty. I think a few minutes ago. No, it wasn’t, but it’s very nice now. Very relaxed, very mellow. Which is good. And it’s good that we were actually mellow because we have
Energizing guests joining us today. It’s dr. Simran Baines who’s joining us, which is lovely so simran’s a dentist chair of the British Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry Young membership committee and Secretary of the College of Dentistry West Midlands division and an avid baker come to that later That’s a big business card. It is there’s all sorts on it. Welcome Simran. How you doing? Hello? Pleasure looking forward to it
Simran Bains (00:28.486)
Whoa.
Simran Bains (00:43.32)
Thank you for having me.
Andy & Chris (00:50.929)
should be a hoot just just to kick off quite often people say that the the things that have the biggest impact on our lives It’s our parents our postcode and our education We’ll come back to education in a minute because you you’re a lifelong learner If we just kind of go back to the parents bit, what was your upbringing like? Where did you get brought up? Have you got siblings? What did that that family setup look like when you were young? That’s okay
Simran Bains (01:14.352)
So I’m from Wolverhampton and then I have a younger brother. He won’t have the accent though.
Andy & Chris (01:22.24)
No, no, that’s true. Yeah, that’s okay. Yeah, get you that. Post school.
Simran Bains (01:28.152)
So I have a younger brother, he’s three years younger than me and he’s a dentist as well. So it’s just us two and then my little dog Milo. I was brought up in Wolverhampton, haven’t moved very far. I went away to Manchester for university and then I moved back because I did my DCT in…
Birmingham and then I ended up just staying in the Midlands, close to family.
Andy & Chris (01:55.191)
Cool. Mum and dad, did they do anything to do with business
Simran Bains (02:00.074)
No, so my mum’s from Singapore originally and then she came over here for university and then that’s where she met my dad. My dad’s not from anywhere exotic but more from Birmingham. And then, yeah, so my mum’s a lawyer and my dad’s in IT so nothing, no one’s done anything dental actually in my family.
Simran Bains (02:24.483)
Yes.
Simran Bains (02:28.684)
My dad always said, he was like, why don’t you just try dentistry? I was like, I kept saying no, like, I don’t want to be that was the one career actually that I kept saying, no, I don’t want to be a dentist. I want to be a lawyer, which if you know me, I would be probably the most rubbish lawyer ever, because in an argument, I probably just cry on you.
Simran Bains (03:09.055)
I think I wanted to do law because of my mum and then I used to follow her to go to different courts and you know and after that I thought maybe accountancy maybe medicine and everyone kept saying why don’t you just try dentistry and just see just give it a chance so I did and to be honest I really enjoyed it.
Simran Bains (03:39.254)
think after the first year of uni, until then I was doing like debating competitions, had mock trials at school so everything was very geared towards law and public speaking and stuff like that and then in the end I think mum was like, I think you’re better off doing something more with people than probably being a lawyer and giving gifts to my mum.
Simran Bains (04:19.174)
Probably around 16 after GCSEs, after trying different careers. I then thought, okay, medicine, dentistry. I liked the idea of being with patients and not every day is the same. So initially I did work experience at New Cross Hospital. So I did my work experience in the Maxx Fax department there.
Simran Bains (04:51.684)
Yeah, so I did work experience with the MaxX department and I painted on the first day. That was great.
Simran Bains (05:09.402)
Okay, it’s, I have a little button to say recording.
Simran Bains (05:25.594)
Okay. It has a little recording thing in the bit on the other side it says 99 % uploading.
Andy & Chris (05:53.298)
started recording now. Do you think it’ll have captured the stuff from before? Yeah. I think we’re gonna start again soon, is that okay? Is that all right? It means we won’t lose the introduction. So, okay, right, so we’ll take it right from the beginning. remember what said. But that’s part of fun of it, we can just do it again. It’s always different.
Simran Bains (06:04.801)
That’s fine. Yeah, Yeah, that’s fine.
Yeah.
Simran Bains (06:17.904)
Thank
Simran Bains (06:22.448)
you
Andy & Chris (06:23.668)
So here we are, it’s podcast recording day and we have another, another exciting guest. Exciting, exciting and on a sunny day. On a sunny day. With aircon. On a sunny day. lovely aircon. It’s brilliant. we’re looking forward to it. It’ll be a great one today actually. Looking at
Simran has achieved is like, whoa, there’s there’s lots going on. There’s lots to get through and it’s not just dentistry. So anyway, let’s introduce our guests. So today, ladies and gentlemen, we have Dr. Simran Baines joining us. Simran is a dentist. Most of our guests, but not all of our guests are, but Simran is a dentist. Chair of the British Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry Young Membership Committee. That was hard. was a mouthful. And also the secretary of the College of Dentistry at West Midlands Division.
and avid baker which we’re to come to at the end so welcome simran how you doing no not at all no thank you very much indeed no i’m excited to have the conversation yeah looking forward to this before we as always yeah before we get into things people often say it’s
Simran Bains (07:13.224)
Thanks for having me.
Andy & Chris (07:24.074)
Parents postcode and education are the three things that kind of set us up for future life We’ll come to the education bit in a minute because there’s obviously lots of dental education that’s gone in there But in terms of parents and postcode putting those together, what was life like for young Simran? Where did you get brought up? What did your parents do? you got any siblings? does that look like? You sound like some old duffer Young Simran? No, young Simran What was it like when you were young?
Simran Bains (07:49.441)
We’re back in 90 minutes.
Andy & Chris (07:53.432)
Anyone who says back in 90, you’ve already lost the argument. I’ve got a pair of shoes I think that are back in 90. I’ve got a car older than you. Yeah vintage, yeah thank you, thank you. That’s all I look at it. Anyway, sorry back to you.
Simran Bains (08:03.942)
Vintage.
Simran Bains (08:11.083)
So I was born in Wolverhampton and then I went away to university in Manchester so I have a younger brother he’s three years younger than me and he’s also a dentist. He went to Bristol so we were in the middle and then I have a little dog called Milo but yeah so I think my parents probably the ones that did encourage me to get into dentistry.
initially. Although initially I always said that was the one career that I would never say never because I always said I would never be a dentist and no one could be enough to be a dentist because I just thought the idea of looking into someone’s mouth I just thought no I can’t do that. Literally since then I’ve always said no I’m not saying never because that was one of my big nevers. Initially I wanted to be a lawyer I think that’s
Andy & Chris (08:50.335)
Right.
Andy & Chris (08:55.73)
Yeah, not pleasant for…
Andy & Chris (09:05.599)
But.
Simran Bains (09:06.822)
probably even more from my mum because my mum’s a lawyer. Yeah, she’s from Singapore and then originally so a lot of my family’s over there. She came here for university, but my dad, my dad’s from Birmingham, so not exactly exotic.
Andy & Chris (09:09.434)
Okay
Andy & Chris (09:16.106)
Right.
Andy & Chris (09:23.386)
And your dad’s nothing medical or anything like
Simran Bains (09:25.835)
No, he’s in IT. So, yeah, he’s good tech support.
Andy & Chris (09:28.329)
Right, okay.
I think it’s always interesting where on both strains, where you have kind of a long lineage of dentists through the generation. So we spoke to a dentist, a Spanish, he was in Spain, he was a Brazilian guy, Christian Coachman. But he’s got seven generations of dentists through his lineage, which is remarkable in itself. And in some ways that almost builds pressure.
Because you kind of have to keep it going. But I also find it intriguing where you have families where there’s no dentists and then suddenly there’s a there’s a there’s a switch and you and your brother become dentists and and that and that change as well. I tell you what just made me think about your dad really, you know, in reality there’s not been enough time for probably seven generations if two generations of IT. Yeah, it’s fascinating dentistry. But I .T. you know, he was probably at
Simran Bains (09:55.074)
Yeah.
Simran Bains (10:19.27)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (10:22.622)
cutting thrust of IT at the early doors of it, I’d imagine, by the sound. Which is bizarre, isn’t it? He’s your dad, he’s not that old, but he was probably right there at the beginning. It’s fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Simran Bains (10:32.584)
So much has changed since
Andy & Chris (10:37.12)
I think for young people it’s hard as well because now for young people who are looking to go from school straight to dental school you need to be making this decision around whether you want to be a dentist at kind of 15, 16 don’t you? If not earlier. You need to make sure you’re making the right GCSE choices to do the right A levels to get the UCAS points to get into dental school. So those decisions get made earlier. So if you’re not sure something like dentistry which is a five -year learning program that’s quite a big commitment.
Simran Bains (10:50.778)
Thank
Simran Bains (10:55.873)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (11:07.114)
of need to really know that it’s for you don’t you?
Simran Bains (11:09.208)
Yeah, I think you, well I just read actually something just now to say even with they’re scrapping the personal statement on the UCAS form, so now yeah, so that you’re not going to have to write a personal statement anymore, they’re splitting it up into three questions about why you want to study the course, what have you done, how your you know choices in terms of which subjects you take influence why you want to do the course and anything else.
Andy & Chris (11:17.31)
Right. interesting.
Simran Bains (11:37.934)
In a way it’s kind of like a personal statement, just a bit of an equation.
Andy & Chris (11:40.69)
Yeah, wonder if it makes it easier for them to read and review. Yeah. I’ll tell you what it would do because you have to answer that personally based on experience.
Simran Bains (11:45.582)
Yeah, it makes you more focused, isn’t it?
Andy & Chris (11:57.618)
it would probably be harder to use something like AI to produce what feels like the right answer. But people do, people are starting to use AI to write CVs and essays and personal statements. So by asking specific questions about you and your experience, I think it, because in those cases, I think people think there’s always a right and a wrong answer and there isn’t, they’re just trying to get an insight as to who you are, what you’ve done and what you’re about. And phrasing it in that way might mean that you actually have to think about it from your
Simran Bains (12:13.347)
it makes it more possible.
Simran Bains (12:18.883)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (12:27.474)
is actually create the answers as opposed to generate the answers, which are two different things.
Simran Bains (12:30.692)
Exactly, instead of the standard why do you want to do dentistry because I can do art and know, whoop person, it probably makes it more personable which is nicer and just your experience of just to see a bit more of an insight of you.
Andy & Chris (12:36.682)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (12:40.196)
Yes.
Andy & Chris (12:44.638)
Yeah. Yeah. So did you do a sort of bounce around looking at before you committed to dentistry, look at various things like, I know you said you thought about being a lawyer. So do you think, I’ll a lawyer and maybe an accountant and maybe whatever.
Simran Bains (12:58.908)
yes, I think I probably went through everything. Initially I wanted to be a lawyer and my mum was like, I think you’d probably be better off doing something more with people because if anyone that knows me, I’d probably cry on you during an argument. So I don’t think I’d be a very good lawyer. Probably for the best. And then I wouldn’t be very good at fighting your case.
Andy & Chris (13:03.466)
Ha ha.
Andy & Chris (13:16.17)
Yeah
Yeah. Divorce lawyer. Yeah. No. go on. Just have it.
Simran Bains (13:29.444)
Just do whatever you want. I thought about accountancy because I was definitely a maths person at school. I couldn’t wait to give up English. So yeah, I wouldn’t be a very good lawyer because I did not like English. And then I went through pharmacy and eventually it was medicine, dentistry. I think my dad always kept saying, why don’t you think about dentistry? It’s a good career, especially
for a woman it can be very flexible. So then that’s when probably after GCSEs, I just have GCSEs is when I was starting that whole journey. And then about year, year 11. I just thought, okay, between medicine and dentistry, and went on work experience at the hospital. So I thought that would be a nice mix because I went during the oral maxofacial.
Andy & Chris (14:00.073)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (14:22.232)
Yeah
Simran Bains (14:25.712)
so I thought it was a mix between medicine and dentistry. Passed out on the first day. So that was great.
Andy & Chris (14:31.034)
Excellent That’s a good start We had someone else who did max fax, you know They went and did it and then that made them really realize they didn’t want to do it But they they still read that they’ve been but they didn’t realize they wanted to be a dentist didn’t know it was quite interesting They they sort of went straight in for it. Like you did ready your work experiences are somewhat Interesting end of dentistry
Simran Bains (14:51.735)
Yeah.
It was, yeah, was so interesting because I saw one of, was an oral cancer case and they literally just took a piece of skin from the stomach to replace the tongue and I found that so fascinating. So I think that for me is what cemented it, that dentistry is probably the way I want to go down because with medicine I felt you see people when they’re ill, whereas dentistry you see people, you build that relationship with someone so you don’t just them when they’re ill, you see them at their happy times and you have that journey with them.
Andy & Chris (15:18.494)
Yep. Yep. Yep.
Simran Bains (15:24.048)
So eventually I gave him, I did work experience as a dentist and to be honest, I never looked back. absolutely love it.
Andy & Chris (15:31.946)
and then you packed yourself off to Manchester. And we talked to lots of people about their dental school experience, but I’ve got a very specific question for you. Did dental school prepare you well to be a dentist?
Simran Bains (15:48.106)
I think in terms of, so Manchester’s a little bit different, it’s problem -based learning compared to some of the other universities which is very lecture -based and you’re in all the time. Manchester’s very different in that we only had one two -hour lecture a week and the rest of it you were in in clinics so you were treating patients which I found
that really helpful. So rather than just learning the knowledge and learning the theory, had PVL, you have basically a case, which you sit in little study groups, and then you go away, you come up with questions, and then you go away and you find the answers for yourself. So you research it, which I found that really helpful, because then you could really research a topic, and you had more clinical time that you could input
Andy & Chris (16:19.146)
Mmm.
Andy & Chris (16:39.07)
Hmm. Hmm.
Simran Bains (16:42.978)
actually into practice rather than somebody just telling you what you should be doing. So I found that helpful. In terms of exams at the end, I think it was so hard because you didn’t know how much depth to go into or did I go into enough depth or am I reading into this way too much? I think PBL has its pros and cons. I love Manchester as a city. But I
Andy & Chris (17:03.198)
Mmm.
Simran Bains (17:12.388)
The school that I went to, so high school wise, was very much, this is the textbook, learn it, memorize it, and we’ll examine you on it. So I found that really tough going from a secondary school that was like that to somewhere that was PBL and you were kind of left by yourself.
Andy & Chris (17:21.518)
Hmm
Andy & Chris (17:33.056)
But problem -based learning is
a more real world way of learning. It’s practical isn’t it? Well the amount of people you talk to that understand the theory of things but they have no idea how to apply it or what it looks like in a real sense or people spend all their time working on phantom heads but phantom heads don’t have emotions and don’t have problems and families and everything else so when you put yourself into that context I can see how that’s a really valuable environment to learn in. I know how to rewire a house but I’ve never done it. yeah. And I wouldn’t
Simran Bains (17:52.281)
Exactly.
Simran Bains (18:03.254)
Thank you.
Andy & Chris (18:06.782)
No.
Simran Bains (18:07.97)
Yeah, I think PBL is good in that way. For example, my diploma is a similar kind of thing where you have an essay topic and you have to go away and research it yourself. I think it keeps you probably interested more in the topic. In terms of patience, maybe because I think at the moment it was very difficult to get root canal patients and you have to do certain totals in dental school.
Andy & Chris (18:23.646)
Hmm
Simran Bains (18:37.124)
which that I think is very difficult to get, purely that flow of patients and patients that are happy to see dental students. So that
Andy & Chris (18:47.173)
right, okay. So what people for Endo wouldn’t want to see a student. Is that how it sort of went?
Simran Bains (18:52.976)
Well you have to give them the option, so I think people were happy to. Which is nice because you always have that patient that’s like, well you have to start somewhere. Which I think that’s…
Andy & Chris (18:56.294)
okay.
Andy & Chris (19:03.424)
You have to start somewhere, just not on me. Just don’t hurt me.
Simran Bains (19:07.834)
Well, my birth root canal ended up being on my mum’s, so touch wood!
Andy & Chris (19:12.005)
excellent, excellent. Good, good, good. Look at that. Mums all do anything for their kids. She didn’t even need one
Simran Bains (19:20.398)
in the exam at the end they said you two look similar and I was like no!
Andy & Chris (19:24.0)
Just a coincidence. Brilliant. And that person’s now having a new crown. Some implants and a couple of veneers. And your very young mother has a lovely set of dentures.
Simran Bains (19:38.118)
The traffic centre wasn’t too far so that was the deal is that she’ll come see me and then afterwards we’ll go to the traffic centre.
Andy & Chris (19:48.102)
Excellent very good. Well all the money you were saving her exactly exactly all that money you were saving her you see So you look at that you’re so generous when you were at dental school Did you do any? Business learning at all which I know would have most likely been elective sessions But was it an opportunity to learn anything about the business side of dentistry?
Simran Bains (19:51.338)
I do? I know.
Simran Bains (20:08.354)
Not really to be honest, I don’t think even the business or the accounting side of dentistry I don’t think is focused on in general schools and that I probably learned mostly when I started my associate job so quite late on really. That was just by finding an accountant which I didn’t even know of what to start looking for when you go through recommendations and then just speaking to the accountant and even the business side of dentistry I don’t think anyone
really prepares you for that. So like going back to just dental school, you know, set you up for real life entry. I think in terms of interest, I’m sure, probably no.
Andy & Chris (20:46.184)
Yeah, it’s frightening really isn’t it because you earn a reasonable amount of money and you can earn Really good money, but no one’s actually taught you almost what to do with it how to keep hold of it how to spend it How to it taxing all that sort of stuff. Yes No
Simran Bains (21:00.134)
No one teaches you about tax or anything like that until you have probably your DFT study days and you have someone come in and it’s like don’t spend your first salary because you’re going to get a tax bill instead.
Andy & Chris (21:09.382)
Mmm. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and I get it from a from a patient point of view I want the dental students to come out as good clinicians I don’t really care whether they understand how to manage their own finances. I want them to be good clinicians, but as people within the profession It disappoints me that there isn’t a lot of that on an elective basis, you know be evenings or weekends or whatever There isn’t access to information that will help you and I’m not Necessarily talking about the business of dentistry in terms of you know business development sales
I’m just talking about how to manage yourself because as an associate dentist, you’re still self -employed So you are a business person in your own right? So you have to manage your financial affairs, you know, you do need to pay pay taxes So you and you’re working in most cases people are working in a small business. They’re working within somebody else’s and it’s profitable Yeah, that’s the thing is it’s so profitable that unless we when we used to do seminars didn’t we we’d say to Guys associates we’d say, you know, we know what happens you come out and you do your FD and
Simran Bains (21:43.183)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (22:11.942)
then you your first year and then you sort of have started to earn some money. So you go and buy a Porsche and then you realize you’ve got to pay tax. And quite often what happened is there’d be loads of people would suddenly take their keys off their desk because they wanted Porsche.
Simran Bains (22:28.614)
everyone does the same. So with BACG we have a Young Dentist Day that runs every September and that’s why we make a conscious effort to do a mixture of clinical and non -clinical talks. Yeah because we think it’s just as important and we’ve received, I mean we had a talk from Bilal from Heathrow Green and it
Andy & Chris (22:30.175)
Hahaha
Andy & Chris (22:42.846)
So you put business in there. That’s great.
Andy & Chris (22:51.348)
Right, yeah, yeah.
Simran Bains (22:52.646)
so well received because no one talks to you about the accounting side of dentistry and what you’re going to be hit with and just future planning as well, that’s so important. So if your goal is to own a practice or you do want to buy a Porsche or just how to plan in advance. So we always tend to do two clinical, two non -clinical talks.
Andy & Chris (23:07.464)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Andy & Chris (23:14.45)
That’s good. It’s really to hear because I think quite often CPD, it could be called clinical professional development, not continuing. And I think it’s because dentists have this leaning in to more clinical learning. And I guess when you spent five years minimum at dental school, I understand it. But like you say, if you can open people’s eyes to some of the non -clinical aspects, it will make them better. And also I think in life, stress and pressure comes from having to do things we don’t understand. So if you don’t understand your finances, you probably
your finances stressful because you don’t understand it but it’s actually broken down to bite -sized chunks it’s not that complicated but somebody does need to explain it to you.
Simran Bains (23:54.394)
Yeah, definitely.
Andy & Chris (23:55.488)
Just going back to the dentistry side, when you qualified, until last year you were working in four practices, two private and two high needs NHS practices, which I think is brilliant because quite often when people qualify, they kind of just hunker down in one practice.
Was that range of experience? about a pension. Yes. And by experience, I don’t just mean kind of the patient, but working with different teams, working in different environments and the differences in patients who are at the private end and the high needs NHS. Did that mean that you accelerated your learning and development as a result of that period? Can I just ask a question before you answer that? Was there lots of travelling involved? Was it like they were reasonably distant
Simran Bains (24:38.074)
Thank you.
Simran Bains (24:42.502)
I live in Wolverhampton so two of the practices were in Telford and two were in Wolverhampton. Probably could walk there but I didn’t. It definitely 100 % it was I did found it I found it really valuable working in NHS and then I
Andy & Chris (24:54.14)
Right, okay, right. Sorry, back to Andy’s question.
Simran Bains (25:09.168)
definitely like advice that I would give to younger dentists is you have so many that graduate dentistry and they just want to do Invisalign and composite bonding and that’s what you see on Instagram and that’s the goal which is great that’s the goal but I think it’s so important to get the foundations right and I learned so when I graduated did DCT
Andy & Chris (25:24.884)
Composite bonding, yeah.
Simran Bains (25:35.852)
in Oromaxfax at Telford Hospital and then I joined my first associate role which was High Needs NHS and Access Centre. I think that in itself taught me time management, how to think on my feet really quickly, come up with a treatment plan. So I learnt those skills definitely from NHS treatment.
Andy & Chris (25:48.446)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (25:57.096)
And communication skills, don’t you? We say to people, we say, we can’t quite understand. We worked with Samir, didn’t we? And we were saying, you we think, and he agrees, similar to you, that says, know, I think you guys, the young guys need to do the NHS bit because basically it teaches you so much. You can then move on if you want to, but the answer is it teaches you so
Simran Bains (26:20.323)
Yeah, so I’ve been in the NHS for about five years and then only recently in December, I mean I still, so at the moment my week is three days private in Wolverhampton and then two days NHS in Telford and I like that mix because I think over the five years it’s taught me so much and that I’ve refined my skills within the NHS and then you can move over to private, take more time with the patient.
And then there’s different treatments that you can do privately as well, which I think, and you know, the technology you can use, it definitely
Andy & Chris (26:52.699)
Mm. Mm. Mm.
Andy & Chris (26:59.326)
Yeah. So you’re doing three days private, two days NHS, and you’re also doing a postgraduate diploma in restorative anesthetic dentistry with the College of General Dentistry. There’s not much time for fun in there, is there? You’re pretty busy.
Simran Bains (27:08.334)
Yeah.
Simran Bains (27:12.17)
I still got no baking. It’s funny because one of my friends who’s also doing the PG edit with me, she goes, can tell when you’re procrastinating because I start seeing pictures of baking pop up on my…
Andy & Chris (27:24.192)
That’s an interesting one. That’s your secret code. If you’ve got big things you should be doing, you actually start baking. If in doubt, bake. So you’re doing your PG dip. Where do you see your career going in terms of the future? Are you going to specialize? Do you have ambitions on the business side of dentistry? Are you loving associate life? What does it look like?
Simran Bains (27:32.808)
There’s a big essay.
Simran Bains (27:49.22)
At moment I’m loving associate life so initially before I chose to do a PG dip I thought I want to just hone my skills just being an associate and just get my skills up to a certain level before I decide what I want to do and then I thought well I would definitely want to do a PG dip but what in? and I wasn’t ready to just narrow my field into one certain thing I still wanted to do something that encompasses a lot of areas so that’s why I chose the restorative diploma.
So it was, it is really intense because there’s a of essays, but I think from coming back from the PVL background with Manchester, it’s really helped me because we have a lot of essays that you have a topic and you research the topic around it. So it’s not the PG dip with CGDent isn’t just simply just do this case and just hand a mini case in. There’s lots of evidence based. So it helped me understand, okay, you’re taught to do something this way,
Andy & Chris (28:44.384)
All right.
Simran Bains (28:49.252)
why, why am I doing it? And I felt it was easier for me then to communicate with the patient and be like, well, you know, there’s this way of doing it, but I think maybe this way is better because of all this evidence, which has helped.
Andy & Chris (28:50.388)
Mm. Mm.
Andy & Chris (29:03.064)
Hmm It’s fascinating when you go back to the beginning of this podcast and you’re the girl who said I don’t really think I’d be very good with English I didn’t really like English and here you are Researching and writing essays. It’s like hello. Let me just wind back 20 or minutes How you’ve transitioned from that, but obviously this excites you and interest you so therefore it’s fascinating
Simran Bains (29:11.088)
Thank
Simran Bains (29:18.511)
I think I am.
Simran Bains (29:23.779)
yeah, was thinking this because I also write articles for Dentistry magazine and I think how did I get into this when I absolutely hated it.
Andy & Chris (29:32.872)
Yeah, so say when you listen to what you said right in the beginning and now look what you’re doing. you’re right. think it’s when you’re interested in things you yeah, you you you really want to kind of grab it and
Simran Bains (29:38.707)
Definitely.
Simran Bains (29:43.397)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (29:43.674)
of it and kind of explain what’s going on in your head. And I think if you’re just writing for the sake of writing, I think it’s like most things, isn’t it? If you’re not really that interested in it, you just go through the motions. It’s a chore, isn’t it? And you do your best, for sure. No. You were saying about the BACD and also, you’re the chair of the Young Membership Committee and you were saying about the Young Dentist Day. How did your relationship with the BACD start? Because I you don’t just turn up and say, I think I’ll be the chair of that committee. You also had a relationship with the BACD before. Was that quite
Simran Bains (29:52.848)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (30:13.578)
for you in the early days of your career. And young.
Simran Bains (30:15.324)
definitely. I started, I was a student rep, I was at Manchester so in third year I saw this advert and I was like, looking for a student rep, you know, apply. So I did and then I went along to the annual conference which, and that time was in London, so Anoop Mani actually was the president of year. Yeah, so, yeah, so.
Andy & Chris (30:37.543)
wow. Rest is so.
Simran Bains (30:43.086)
I then just started going to events and then when I graduated I joined the Young Membership Committee which I found really… because I’ve always wanted to help younger dentists as well and that is a massive part of why I do all these like different… gives me the motivation to all these different things all the time. Can you see the wrinkles?
Andy & Chris (31:01.854)
Hmm, get yourself out yourself.
Andy & Chris (31:08.36)
Is there a date? Is there like an age when you can’t be part of the young dentist anymore? I say because I’m fascinated, is it right? You’re too old now. You’re no longer a young dentist.
Simran Bains (31:12.836)
We had this conversation.
Simran Bains (31:18.662)
What counts as young dentist? Well it has to be above 30 because I’m 30.
Andy & Chris (31:23.732)
Ha ha ha!
Yeah, I it’s just something made me think I wonder when you stop being a young dentist Well, we’re gonna come on we’re gonna come on to the awards in a minute But I think you have young dentist of the year and I think that’s like 35 or something which sounds silly But actually when you kind of work backwards from when people are qualified and actually enter the profession Yeah with their GDC number and a career end Those people kind of lots of those people aren’t coming in until their mid 20s anyway So actually if you don’t run it out to mid 30s, there isn’t that bigger window and you keep working too
Simran Bains (31:34.647)
Yeah. Yeah.
Simran Bains (31:43.29)
is that it’s like, it’s complicated.
Simran Bains (31:55.642)
Yeah,
Andy & Chris (31:56.05)
60 we see 65 70 don’t we see a lot of older guys keep working. Maybe not as quick as they used to
But that was a nice segue to the awards because you’re on the judging panel or you were on the judging panel for the Dentistry Awards in 23. You’re on the judging panel again this year, which is amazing. You’re in the Dentistry Top 50 last year and again this year. from an awards point of view, it’s looking really good for Simran, which I’m delighted for you. However, dental awards kind of do divide opinion, don’t they? You have some people who think, you know, it’s a bit kind of back -slapping and a bit gratuitous and you have other people that really make the most of it from a
Simran Bains (32:25.284)
I’ll just put it there.
Andy & Chris (32:33.943)
What’s been your experience in perspective on the awards?
Simran Bains (32:34.374)
Yeah.
Simran Bains (32:37.882)
I think the dentistry wards especially, they do get a lot of negative press. You have people which really can go either way and I think you have to just take it with a bit of jest to be honest. I mean in terms of the dentistry wards, I have to be honest initially, I mean you heard people say it’s know fixed and it depends on how many cables you buy and how much money you throw.
And it’s really not like that. From judging the awards last year, you have no idea about, mean, the awards are judged so far before even the tickets are released that you have no idea whether somebody bought a ticket or not. simply just, there’s a really strict marking criteria. So it is really fair. So I think even top 50, because even I ask the questions, everyone asks like, oh, so what number did you come in in top 50? And
Andy & Chris (33:17.246)
Hmm.
Simran Bains (33:36.518)
I didn’t ask the question but I was speaking to somebody from F &C and they said, somebody with 20 -30 years of experience, can’t really put against somebody who’s had 5 -6 years of experience. They kind of look at your contribution to dentistry in the past year, it doesn’t even have to be clinical because you have so many people that are great, absolutely amazing clinicians.
Andy & Chris (34:00.029)
I’d say it’s different criteria, isn’t it?
Simran Bains (34:06.224)
that aren’t on the list, so it’s not totally clinical, but it’s probably just your contribution over the last year and
Andy & Chris (34:14.944)
Do people get snotty about it? Do people get a bit grumpy with you at times? know, like, oh, I’d be intrigued to see if you got into the top 50. Do people go, oh, and then like, not your friends, because your friends would be all right, but are there other people that sometimes get a bit weird about it or not really?
Simran Bains (34:20.646)
I’m gonna be coming.
Simran Bains (34:30.67)
But would I have it? I’d probably cry on them.
Andy & Chris (34:34.24)
That’s your defence mechanism, it? Don’t be nasty to me because I will cry. Or make you happy. Maybe that’s it. Maybe if you’re happy or sad you cry. So therefore it’s not a good one. Both bases covered. Sorted.
Simran Bains (34:48.806)
think the majority of the people probably take it in jest and the majority, I’ve always said this, dentistry the of the people I do feel are really encouraging and really helpful especially, it might just be like the BACD bubble but everyone, I say this to student reps when they apply, it’s not just cliche or really cheesy but everyone is so supportive and you can go to anyone and ask for help no matter what level
Andy & Chris (35:13.151)
Yeah.
Simran Bains (35:18.106)
There you are, the book covers how, which is really good.
Andy & Chris (35:19.136)
Which is great. Yeah. And I agree, I think on the whole, I think there’s
Elements that perhaps sit within perhaps Facebook groups those people can be a bit nasty But I think on the whole people are good and I think you should surround yourself with those people if you find those people who aren’t just leaving to themselves You know, they’ll they’ll eat themselves to death at some point and you don’t we don’t need those people around and I agree I think on the whole it’s a very it’s a very nice profession. It’s very very supportive Do you think that? Dentists on the whole make enough of the
Simran Bains (35:28.28)
Yen.
Simran Bains (35:39.334)
Thank you.
Simran Bains (35:49.594)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (35:54.85)
or being in the top 50, because I see it from a PR perspective. I see it as having a huge value in terms of elevating your practice or elevating yourself in your patient’s eyes. Do you think people make enough of that? Would you say that you’ve made enough of that?
Simran Bains (36:09.754)
Definitely put my certificate up and what with your media?
Andy & Chris (36:14.923)
But sometimes people feel awkward with it because it feels a little bit showy, doesn’t it? But actually there’s a good PR reason to let people know. badge. Yeah.
Simran Bains (36:24.835)
I think I definitely have felt at points in my career, imposter syndrome, thinking, I’m not good enough. Like, why didn’t they ask this person? Well, I’m not as good as this person on their business. So I definitely have felt like that in terms of that. Everyone has the practices that I’ve met are amazing, both of them, and they’ve been really encouraging and which is really nice.
Andy & Chris (36:49.918)
Yeah. Have you been able to push through that, that imposter syndrome? it, has it, has it held you back from perhaps profiling yourself to the extent you could or have the practice kind of helped you with that and kind of pushed, pushed it forward? Good question.
Simran Bains (37:03.398)
Yeah, I think the practices and my family, because initially I would, I remember, I think it was in 2017, so I was doing DCT and Seb messaged me from FMC and said, we want you to be on the cover of Young Dentist magazine. I remember thinking like, is this a joke? Like, why me? I’ve only been a year out, like surely they can pick anybody else.
Andy & Chris (37:07.572)
Right, good, good.
Simran Bains (37:30.41)
And someone said to me, even at different points in the career, if you don’t push yourself out of that comfort zone, you constantly think you’re not good enough, you’re never going to progress. So it is happening. They were like, just say yes to any opportunity and you don’t know which avenue that leads to and which doors that opens. So even though at some points I definitely feel like, know, major imposter syndrome and I can’t do this and like lecturing at Cardiff University recently.
Andy & Chris (37:36.308)
Hmm. Yeah. No, that’s all. You have to say yes.
Simran Bains (37:59.972)
that was really scary initially but I said yes and I thought we’ll think about it when the time comes but it does push you once you do it once you think well actually I can do this gives you the confidence to do it
Andy & Chris (38:13.214)
I think also, I think that the danger is if you say no, guaranteed there are zero opportunities coming from that by saying no. Whereas if you say yes, okay, it might feel uncomfortable, but you never know where it’s gonna lead. Never know. So that situation when Seb rang you and said, we’d to you on the cover of Young Day, you might have gone, God, no, I couldn’t possibly know that. it’d be dreadful, please don’t.
Simran Bains (38:20.336)
Yeah.
Simran Bains (38:26.32)
We got to do
Andy & Chris (38:34.324)
But you you never know as a result of that did then people see you and suddenly your profile got elevated So the guys at the BACD thought actually you’d be really useful person to run work with you You just don’t know where these things lead to and I think as a rule saying yes will bring way more dividend than saying no because I think the risk with saying no as well is that at some point people stop asking you and suddenly the opportunities just dry out because you’re not somebody who who kind of Yes, that’s all the people who will say yes. Yes
Simran Bains (38:57.114)
I need you.
Simran Bains (39:03.706)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (39:04.899)
Exactly right. We’ve sort of touched very closely to the eggs and the flour and the yeast, but we’ve not quite got to it as We’re rising to the occasion. Very nicely. you. Very good indeed. So away from dentistry, you love baking.
Before we started recording, we were talking about how interesting it is that many of the dentists that we’ve talked to over the years have a creative angle. So we have lots of people who are musicians. Shiraz Khan is a break dancer, which is a form of kind of creative representation. People do lots and lots of different things. Or falling over with style. And I mean, just to know that is there a link, you know, so for you, is there kind
Simran Bains (39:40.24)
Thank
Andy & Chris (39:50.832)
icing a cake and the perfect composite, is there a link between kind of that artistic crossover? a cake with the perfect composite. You do it if you wanted to. yeah, does that creativity flow both ways?
Simran Bains (39:56.569)
Thank you.
Simran Bains (40:04.698)
think it must do definitely. My mum would absolutely kill me if I don’t say she helps me with baking. If I don’t say that, hold on. We’re a team. We’re a team but I definitely decorate, bakes. Definitely, I just find it so relaxing and it’s like that.
Andy & Chris (40:11.168)
There we go, there we go. We’ll mention your mum in the guest notes at the bottom. The Simran’s mum baking.
Andy & Chris (40:27.618)
We’re a team but I take it. No, that’s fine.
Simran Bains (40:34.224)
When I do composite funding, I know it’s probably a great, I can probably spend ages making it perfect and we’re all probably typo personalities and you want it to be absolutely perfect. So I find baking, it’s funny because initially when you apply to university and you have to, you know, show a portfolio of your manual dexterity, mine was baking. then, yeah, so I mean, it was very small scale then it was probably, you know, cupcakes and, and then when COVID hit, and we were at home.
everyone kept saying well you keep talking to us and you’re distracting us working from home so can you find something else to do. And then I took up gardening and baking and then yes now I make you know cakes and I have my own little Instagram page which at one point probably had more posts than my dental ones so I’ve tried to swap that around.
Andy & Chris (41:25.204)
that you always became the baker that did a bit of dentistry as opposed to the dentist at Baked. I suppose it’s a bigger market isn’t it, cakes are when people are looking at teeth. And do you do it just purely for fun and socially or is it something that you have any ambition
Simran Bains (41:43.202)
I do enjoy it. Well my grandma used to bake a lot then my mom used to bake a lot so I think it’s always been like a family thing. So it’s just purely for a bit of fun and I’ll make cakes. The best is when you know I make it for family and friends and you don’t have to eat it which is good but you can decorate it otherwise you’ll have to wheel me everywhere probably.
Andy & Chris (41:50.784)
Three generations of bakers.
Andy & Chris (42:08.064)
In our in our office once a month we have a we have a bake -off it started several years ago So every month people have to kind of make something and honestly for just a regular bunch of people I’m always surprised at the quality of what you turn out someone made the graveyard for Halloween. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah Honestly, it’s like flipping it. It’s not bought. I made a biscuit
Simran Bains (42:17.988)
Cool.
Simran Bains (42:28.165)
Long enough.
I’ll let you know in the next stormy and I’ll come down.
Andy & Chris (42:34.334)
Yeah, yeah, I think it might I think it’s me I think I got nominated I did a drip cake a few years ago when drip cakes all the thing that was quite cool Are you next up? Yeah, think I am. When’s that first Wednesday? Yeah. Yeah, I think it’s when I come back from holidays. I think it’s the beginning of September. It’s a crispy cakes Yeah, similar. I’ll give you some hints. was gonna say I have to jump on your Instagram page and get some ideas and tips of what to do
Simran Bains (42:48.374)
Do you know what you’re going to bake?
Simran Bains (42:54.704)
I was going to say, do you know what you’re going to be?
Andy & Chris (42:56.882)
No, no, not yet. I have no idea at all. No idea at all. It is one of those things. It feels too far away at the moment. I’ll work it out in good time. but no, I think I’m to go to your Instagram page. I chocolate crispy cakes because people always bemoan them, but everyone always eats them. Yeah. Cause they never make them themselves. That’s right. Yeah. That’s what I would do. Yeah. Cause that’s lazy. Simran, we’ve got to the point where we need to ask you a couple of questions. And the first question we have for you is if you could be a fly on a wall
Simran Bains (43:03.546)
Yeah, all about it the week before.
Simran Bains (43:16.474)
Bye.
Andy & Chris (43:26.816)
situation not whilst you’re baking no no we don’t want to fly under cakes where where would you be and who would be there with you
Simran Bains (43:34.414)
is so hard. I think, I mean, I’ve always loved nature and animals. Yeah, so in my spare time, I love like going on walks. And I think if I wasn’t probably a dentist, I would love to have been a vet maybe. So I think, you one of those David Attenborough documentaries where I would love to, I suppose there’s not a wall there.
but just be a fly around him and yeah, fly on a leaf and just listen to how he, because I think he’s done so much for wildlife and I would just love to be there just watching him record one of those documentaries. I would find it so fascinating.
Andy & Chris (44:03.072)
A flana leaf.
Andy & Chris (44:20.8)
Yeah, he’s a national treasure isn’t it? Yeah, he’s 90 something. Is this same age as a queen? I was gonna say I think he’s been been working for the BBC on that that side of things for like 70 years Wow, I’ll tell you something’s quite entertaining and it’s not do David Attenborough, but it is nature. Have you seen? Benedict Cumberbatch talk about penguins. If you haven’t
Simran Bains (44:32.111)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (44:44.422)
on a YouTube clip, it is very, very funny because he gets Penguin wrong and then it just gets worse. So he goes like Penguin. It’s quite funny. It’s Sorry. it’s casual aside there. But as an entertaining naturalist, it’s quite funny. It’s quite an excellent re -watch. And our follow up question is, you can have the opportunity to sit down with somebody and meet anybody you’d like. Who would you take the opportunity to sit down and meet?
Simran Bains (45:02.064)
I don’t know how live without.
Simran Bains (45:15.14)
I think probably Steve Jobs because I find it so, how he’s just, sorry to all the Samsung users, but how Apple has just become such a massive part of everyone’s life and how initially he’s, how he’s just developed the whole, how the whole idea came to play in the first place and then developed it and how it’s become this huge, massive company and how he’s
Andy & Chris (45:18.976)
Okay.
Simran Bains (45:44.986)
continually push boundaries to over, I mean, the iPhone wasn’t a massive thing when I was younger and I always just pushed those boundaries and it’s literally blown up into this huge, massive world. It’s so disgusting.
Andy & Chris (45:58.654)
And he’s, think the thing that Steve Jobs, I don’t know as a, personality, he was a particularly friendly or warm person, in terms of what he did, he, he transformed the mobile phone market into smartphones. then took the world of music and digitized it and put it onto the iPod. He then had Pixar, which then animated, you know, films to another level. He, he, covered off so many different things and
Simran Bains (46:12.515)
Yeah.
Simran Bains (46:27.427)
I need to be happy.
Andy & Chris (46:28.53)
revolutionized those markets and we’re still living through that time and the benefits of the things that he kicked off 40 odd years ago.
Simran Bains (46:36.358)
Like you think how different the world is from even now compared to 10 years ago. I mean when I was at uni Instagram was right at the beginning. We didn’t have snapchat then Things like especially mum when she came over here for university from Singapore You didn’t have mobile phones. You were ringing from you know the phone but that was a long ago and now you have FaceTime and everybody’s so easily accessible so
Andy & Chris (46:48.842)
Yeah. Yeah.
Andy & Chris (46:59.613)
The telephone box,
Simran Bains (47:06.638)
It’s insane how that’s just grown.
Andy & Chris (47:07.014)
Yeah. Whether that’s a good thing, that’s another conversation. Yeah. think you’re right. think we’re way more available and more connected. I’m not sure that from a business point of view, things happen much quicker.
You know, Chris and I are from an era where, you know, you would send letters to people and that would be the primary way of communicating. You wait for a letter by return. And the facts first arrived. was like, yeah, that’s exciting. Whereas now, you know, in theory, you can get an email into somebody’s inbox within within under a minute. But I don’t think you get a response any quicker than if you sent a letter from 40 years ago. So I think the technology is there, but I don’t know whether the behaviors, the underlying behaviors of humans of
Simran Bains (47:41.349)
Yeah.
Simran Bains (47:45.666)
I’m
Andy & Chris (47:54.22)
Materially changed massively changed if anything is that there’s just more inputs Yes, but you can only work at a certain output speed. Yeah, I think that I think the big change is we’ve become the world’s got smaller we’ve become So, you know in touch and so much information has become available to us But when I was a kid, you know I kind of knew the people I went to school with The other kids I played football with and the people in my part of London. That was it was now you can see what’s happening different
Simran Bains (48:21.102)
and just that road’s blind.
Andy & Chris (48:24.082)
parts of the world and you can get insights and different cultures and you know trying to access different cuisines is easier than it was before so I think the world has got a lot smaller by way of kind of the communication being improved. Do remember that we went to some seminar and the bloke was saying I can’t remember the time frame but it might be around about now and he was saying there’ll be 20 billion internet connected devices because like you got connected TVs and fridges and all those sort of things it’s for that fun in such a short time.
Simran Bains (48:51.622)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (48:52.178)
Yeah, well cool that got us off on a wandering. I was gonna say we started with Steve Jobs. That was deep. was good. Quick, some lemony back into it for good. Talk about baking. What’s your biggest cake disaster?
Simran Bains (49:10.167)
you don’t want to know.
Andy & Chris (49:11.71)
no, I do now, now that you said it. don’t want to know.
Simran Bains (49:14.84)
made these brownies and it said on I may have put them in the oven and they just kept rising and rising and rising and everyone’s like are you sure you made these right and I was like yeah well how much of this did you put in and I told her how much baking powder did you put in and I put one tablespoon and she was like one tablespoon these brownies exploded in the oven it was everywhere and you can’t even I mean if you try and put a tablespoon into the baking powder container it doesn’t let you
So even in my head I thought, this is odd, and I tipped one table spoon out. My uncle goes, they even tried to make it idiot -proof, and you still got around that.
Andy & Chris (49:53.408)
I like your creativity, the ability to think outside the problem. I like that. It’s problem -based learning. See, there you go. I also like the idea that now you’ve been consigned to doing the icing and your mum does the baking. I think there’s clues. The world’s biggest brownie is not this high.
Simran Bains (49:58.47)
you
Simran Bains (50:08.624)
really wise.
Andy & Chris (50:13.524)
There’s a breadcrumbs trail going backwards as to where we are now. It’s a joy. Thank you very much. you so much. It’s been a hoot. Thank you very much. Look after yourself and no doubt we’ll see you at a dental event at some point soon anyway. Somewhere. Thank you very much.
Simran Bains (50:24.486)
Thanks for having me.
Simran Bains (50:28.897)
yeah, definitely see you soon. Bye.
