Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Sorabh Patel
Episode Release Date – Monday 11 November 2024
Andy & Chris (00:01.09)
So we’re heading towards the end of 2024. Can you believe it? Scary, isn’t it? think as you get older, being a man of old age, you realise that life is just whizzing by. You know when you were four and it took a year, like so long, didn’t it? And now I’m 60, like, whoop, there we go, 24, 25, Christmas soon. Unbelievable. It is staggering. Unbelievable. But we’re here today recording because we’ve got a guest joining us.
Sorabh (00:19.073)
you
Andy & Chris (00:29.378)
Well, that’s a bonus. Otherwise it would be just you and me. We have done the occasional episode on our own. We have, have occasional. It’s much more fun with a guest. Of course it is. Yeah, I’ll sit next to you and talk to you all day long. So I don’t need to do it again. do it again. But listen, we’ve been recorded. So we have. Today we have Dr. Saurabh Patel joining us. And Saurabh is a dentist and also a partner, dental beauty partner. Welcome Saurabh, how are you doing? You’re looking well. Welcome.
Sorabh (00:52.866)
I’m doing very well. Thank you guys. Thank you for having me Andy and Chris and yeah, how are you guys doing this morning?
Andy & Chris (00:56.162)
We are good we are appearing from our podcast room you are appearing from your lounge or something
Sorabh (01:04.192)
I am sitting at our breakfast table just enjoying the play while I can.
Andy & Chris (01:08.178)
Excellent and I think pretending to have a day off. Is that what you were saying? You’re you’re allegedly attempting a day off
Sorabh (01:12.692)
Yeah, day offs don’t exactly exist, but you got to grab a couple of minutes when you can.
Andy & Chris (01:19.362)
Yeah, yeah, excellent. We will come on to that. was gonna say, yeah, we were talking about that before we started recording about how as a business owner, what a day off actually looks like. But yeah, we’ll come on to that as we have a conversation, because it’s not as straightforward and as easy as people think it is. People say, well, you just switch off. I thought it was easy. Yeah, just, well, perhaps it is for you. I’ve been carrying him for the last 25 years. Perhaps that’s back to the age thing. Perhaps the fact of I, yeah.
Sorabh (01:42.082)
That’s why it’s easy for Andy.
Andy & Chris (01:46.05)
Dementia, that’s what it is. I forget the short-term things, but a long time ago, 30 years ago, I can remember. So just to kick off, they say that the biggest impact on our lives is kind of postcode parents and education. Yeah, those are the things that kind of sort of set the early years in terms of our structure. So can we roll back to your childhood and give us a sense and a style of what that looked like for you when you were a kid?
Sorabh (02:00.501)
OK.
Sorabh (02:11.918)
how far back do we go? well, look, it’s the three. It’s a, I can switch up the accent very well. could switch quite a lot when you get through the communication side of things. look, it’s your sort of standard sort of immigrant story. Really. My parents came here sort of towards the end of the eighties. both left India, came here, built life for themselves. I was born in 92.
Andy & Chris (02:14.432)
Where were you born? How about that? I’m trying to detect an accent of any description.
Sorabh (02:41.442)
stayed here for about a year and a year or so. So once I was two years old, I think they couldn’t afford the rent. So my granddad came to London, picked me up, took me to India. So I was in India from the age of two till about five. It was my grandfather that raised me when I was in my early years. And no, no, no, no, no, cause they were, they were working, know, parents working two, three jobs each, you know, 16, 18 hour days to scratch together as much as they could to get a house and
Andy & Chris (02:54.943)
wow.
Did you see your parents during that period or not?
Andy & Chris (03:05.548)
Flip.
Andy & Chris (03:11.266)
Wow.
Sorabh (03:11.394)
When I was about three years old, think, you my dad said they’d found a place and they were just looking to get a mortgage. And then they finally got it. By the time they’d completed on the house, we came back. My grandfather and I came back when I was about four and a half. And then we’ve been in that house ever since, mom and dad are still in that house, which is great. So yeah, that’s where I think it was the hardest decision mom had to make, but she knew that.
Andy & Chris (03:33.878)
How remarkable.
Sorabh (03:40.258)
They just couldn’t afford to keep me here because the rent they were paying, they were charging me more and they technically counted me as a third person even though I was like six months old. they were like, yes, they were like, was probably the hardest decision mom and dad had to make early on into their marriage considering they’d been married a year. And back then it was all arranged. So they didn’t know each other for a long time, but they made the decision. I’m hoping it’s paid off. I think it has.
Andy & Chris (03:42.284)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (03:49.762)
Yeah, not taking up that much space.
Andy & Chris (03:59.266)
Mmm.
Andy & Chris (04:08.331)
Yeah.
Sorabh (04:09.334)
But yeah, I that’s how I came to be.
Andy & Chris (04:12.738)
But that’s, I mean, for lots of people, mean, we’ve heard similar stories before. I love the fact that you started off with, well, it’s just your normal sort of immigrant story that I came here and then I went back to India for three years. But that’s telling in itself, isn’t it? Yeah, it is amazing. Like, the way you describe it, it’s like, yeah, there’s lots of people who went through this. This is just kind of as it was.
Sorabh (04:23.35)
Yeah.
Sorabh (04:33.014)
I think it was like back in the 80s and, you know, the 70s and 80s when, you know, a huge amount of South Indian immigrants came to the country. That’s all our parents did. You know, the first generation, they didn’t know anything. All they had was the notion that they wanted a better life and they this, you know, incredible work ethic. And I’ve been around that all my younger life, you know, all my uncles, all my aunts, know, friends and family, you know, the community that we were in, because we, you know, I’m from South London.
Andy & Chris (04:48.032)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (04:56.994)
Mm-hmm.
Sorabh (05:02.434)
from a place called Thornton Heath, kind of near Croydon, that’s the easiest way to explain it to people. And it’s a huge Indian population there. And that’s what I grew up around. Everyone’s parents were hard grafting, trying to provide what they could for their children, really. I think seeing that work ethic in my younger years just reinforced that if you work hard, you can achieve the things you want to achieve. And that was it.
Andy & Chris (05:06.274)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (05:18.21)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (05:26.146)
But what a wrenching decision for your parents to decide as to whether they give up on their dream of staying in the UK and take their son back to India or the terrible decision of saying no our son will go back to India and we will continue to build a life and if it works he’ll come back and it doesn’t work we’ll join it later. Do you remember the time when you were in India?
Sorabh (05:31.745)
Yeah.
Sorabh (05:35.756)
you
Sorabh (05:50.112)
Yeah. Not at all. I was way too young. And, you know, I didn’t realize all this stuff until I was older. So then my mom told me that, you know, her biggest regret in life was sending me away because I was the first born as well. You know, my sister, when she came around 96, she had it easy, man. She just… She was killing. Even now. Yeah. I mean, yeah. So, yeah, she’s had it easy. I’ve paved the way, I’d like to think. But…
Andy & Chris (05:59.298)
Right.
Andy & Chris (06:03.81)
Mm.
Sure.
Andy & Chris (06:10.772)
Yeah, she just stayed here. What’s the matter?
Sorabh (06:19.788)
But yeah, I think it was a really difficult decision, especially for mom, it hit her quite hard. She said it hit her hard, but it was also the biggest driving force for her and my father to scrape together everything that they could save to get a family home. And I think that’s their pride and joy. That’s probably why they’ve never moved. They’ve redone the house like twice. It means everything to them. know, because I even said to them, look, we can move out, we can find another place. And they’re like,
Andy & Chris (06:23.394)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (06:33.974)
So as you could be together as a family again, yeah. Yeah. It means so much to them.
Sorabh (06:49.622)
this is all they’ve ever known in their life and they’re happy. So I said, if you’re happy, you’re happy, then keep it.
Andy & Chris (06:51.744)
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. But I think there’s a difference between a house and a home. I think a house is somewhere you live in. A home is where… There’s a song about that. Yeah. But isn’t that’s where all the experiences and the history and because of what they’ve gone through. Shared experiences. It is such an important place. When you came back, so you’re about four and a half, did you say? Four and a half. So did you then go to primary school, would it be?
Sorabh (07:14.828)
foreign hog.
Yeah, primary school, was just like, a little Indian kid. No, it took me about… It was very broken English. I mean, I still struggle to speak English now, to be fair. Yeah.
Andy & Chris (07:19.53)
And were you speaking English or I was going to say, cause that must be quite an interesting one. Right.
Andy & Chris (07:29.96)
you’re an outstanding communicator. Don’t give us that. What did he just say? Boom!
Sorabh (07:34.818)
I was just in the Indian cube with this like really broken Indian accent and I didn’t really I didn’t think anything of it I’m four and half five years old I remember much but you know I had friends you know I enjoyed football and cricket when I was younger I played around and know childhood was nice man it was it was really good happiest years of my life I guess
Andy & Chris (07:44.656)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (07:58.566)
So we roll forward a bit and I’m intrigued because you’re in quite a large group of dentists who got their first exposure to the profession through work experience. So what was it about when you did your work experience that turned your head towards dentistry and you thought this is a bit of me?
Sorabh (08:18.178)
So I think like most Indian parents, as soon as you get your national insurance number, you turn 16, the first thing they expect you to do is get a job. And I was just, and then, you know, we had the conversation of like, what do want to do? You know, I was very fortunate. My parents were very sort of progressive at the time. They said, look, whatever you decide to do, there are only two things we need. One, we want to make sure that
Andy & Chris (08:27.362)
You
Sorabh (08:43.991)
you have some sort of university education in whatever it is you want to pursue. So get a degree. And then the second is to make sure it’s something you enjoy. Don’t go into something if you don’t enjoy it. Try it out if you’re not sure. Take your time. So I was very fortunate to have that sort of mindset from my dad and from my grandfather when I was younger as well. Because my dad was very honest. He says, look, my dad wanted to become a doctor.
Andy & Chris (08:48.226)
Mm-hmm.
Sorabh (09:12.096)
He did biochem and biomed when he was in India and then he hated it. He didn’t enjoy it much. He switched to becoming an engineer, liked it for a while, had some health issues and then he decided it wasn’t for him. But he worked jobs to be able to provide for his family. He didn’t enjoy them. He hated doing what he did, but he loved the people around him. That’s what kept him in these of standard working jobs when he was young.
Andy & Chris (09:31.414)
Mm-hmm.
Sorabh (09:41.974)
So he didn’t want that for me or my sister. says, whatever you do, find something you enjoy. So I was very curious as a kid. was like, okay, well, what do I enjoy? Okay. I enjoy playing video games. enjoy watching like racing and I enjoy like fast cars. So I was like, okay, maybe I’ll be a games designer or, you you go through all these like little things, right? And then when it comes to the crux of it all, think deep down with what I wanted is I wanted to be in a position where I could help people.
Andy & Chris (09:51.934)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (10:02.839)
Yeah.
Sorabh (10:12.246)
And I narrowed it down to either going into medicine, going into dentistry or going into optometry. Cause those were, you know, friends of my parents that I was sort of like surrounded by. So it was kind of like the environment I was in. So I was like, okay, well, I don’t know anything about these roles, right? I didn’t look too deep into it. So was like, let me shadow these people around. So I did work experience in Mayday Hospital. You’ve got to be perseverant, right? You’ve got to email, you’ve got to send.
Andy & Chris (10:31.81)
Mmm.
Andy & Chris (10:37.442)
Yeah.
Sorabh (10:38.658)
You’ve got to go physically in, you’ve got to find someone that you can speak to in person and just track them down and like, look, can I just follow you around? I mean, guess it was very different back in the day, right? As we’re talking like, was this before like 2010, early 2000s, guess. hate to break it off. Yeah, yeah. It was like probably a few years for you guys because you’re so young.
Andy & Chris (10:44.13)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (10:51.746)
Hmm.
We’re all blokes. So when we hear stuff like that, makes me laugh. Cause I was like, yeah, it was a long time ago and I’m thinking I’ve got a pen older than that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I when you went back to India, I think that was the year I got married. So that puts it into context. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So don’t do the back in the day thing. Back in 2010.
Sorabh (11:08.565)
really? Wow.
Sorabh (11:13.164)
Define what my version of that is. But yeah, I get it. get it. But yeah, I hate work experience in the hospital and I just didn’t enjoy it. And then I did it in an optometrist. I found it incredibly boring. I found it really repetitive and boring. I a work experience. My mum, because my mum worked in Sainsbury’s, dad worked in Tesco. So mum would have all her regular shoppers coming in and one of them was a dentist and she was talking about it then he was like, don’t you…
when you come to practice for a week or so just so can see what it’s like. So it was a small two surgery clinic in Colshorten. So I take the bus there. And it was pretty cool. You know, I had direct access to, it was literally just the hygienist and the principal dentist at the time, who was like a family friend of mom and dad. So did it for a week or so, it was pretty cool. I think like a couple of days in, what really struck me was the patients.
There was one particular patient, and this was that sort of profound moment for me. It was a patient who was a victim of domestic violence, and she’d come in. And she was a new patient, and they did the console, and she was just, she just broke down telling her story, and she’s just in tears, right? There’s this, you know, me, this chubby looking 16 year old kid in the corner watching this grown woman tell a life story just break down in tears. And then just watching this dentist listen, and then, you know, the nurse went to get a tissue. I went to.
grab her cup of, like a glass of water and stuff. And then we took her outside because she was just, she was just in a state. So, you know, I mean, the dentist was like, it’s fine. I’m going to see the next patient. You know, there’s one more after her and then just wait in the waiting room. And when you, when you feel a bit more composed, come back in. So we took time out and then, you know, we spoke to her outside and, know, I think this is where like humanity just sort of kicks in. So you, you see this woman who’s just crying, telling her life story of what she’s been through.
Andy & Chris (12:47.65)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (13:09.92)
like they’re real people, real situations.
Sorabh (13:11.5)
Yeah, and I mean, I can’t relate to anything that this woman’s gone through. I’m a 16-year-old kid. I have no experience of life at that stage. All I can see is there’s someone who’s hurting and there’s someone who’s in pain and someone who is just a shell of a person. And I was just like, I don’t know what I can do to help, but like, here’s a tissue and here’s a glass of water and, you know, just a few deep breaths. I think…
Andy & Chris (13:18.764)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (13:27.266)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (13:36.115)
And sometimes that’s a start, sometimes that’s enough in that moment.
Sorabh (13:40.03)
Yeah, and was just instinctive. That’s, you know, I didn’t think, shit, what do do? She’s crying like, pat her on the back or something. No, just, you just instinctively do these things when someone’s crying, right? Anyway, after the dentist finished, we brought back in, she sort of explained what was going on. She had a couple of broken teeth. She had jaw surgery before and she had some cracked teeth and stuff. And she was just all on the result of what she’d been through. And like, she just kept apologizing. We like, look, you’ve…
Andy & Chris (13:49.238)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (14:01.44)
Was this order as result of the domestic abuse? Cheers.
Sorabh (14:09.206)
The dentist was like, you’ve got nothing to apologize for. You’ve been through a lot. Let’s see what we can do to help you get back to health. And that was it. And I was so encapsulated by that moment. You know, I asked him like, would you be okay if I can follow this case? Like how many appointments is she gonna need? And he was like, it’s gonna take a couple of months. There’s quite a lot to do. And you know, the way we were booking things in, I said, is it okay if I…
can shadow and then he says if it’s okay with the patient then yeah. So he asked the patient, the patient was happy for me to tag along so he sent me all the dates and I just took the time off and I went. There were days where I’d miss half of school, sixth form. I’d go off on my free periods and stuff. I mean told my sixth form tutors at the time, was like look this is what I’m doing. I can make it up, I can catch up, whatever. I’m going to this whether you give me permission or not.
Andy & Chris (15:02.981)
Hmm.
Sorabh (15:06.37)
in my head I was like, I want to see how this goes through. Because I was genuinely encapsulated by it all. And then it was a period of a couple of months and then afterwards this woman was completely different. Like she had her life together again. And I’m not saying that was just down to the dentist, but she could smile, she could just express who she was as a person. And I’m sure there were other things in the background that she was going through and managing, but to see that level of transformation in a
Andy & Chris (15:35.692)
Hmm it was definitely part of those rebuilding blocks wasn’t it?
Sorabh (15:36.066)
and to have some sort of part in it. Exactly. And I thought that’s what I want to do for the rest of my life. And then I learned what the NHS dentistry system was. Once I got into FD, that’s a little bit further on. But the core of it was I found something that I could use to, I found something that allows me to help people. And I was like, this is it.
Andy & Chris (15:51.265)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (16:00.93)
Hmm. I’m what I know what a very impactful experience for you skill, isn’t it? Really? Yeah, the only one I can think about is like someone like a Max fax or some, know plastic surgeons or something like that, but to replace someone’s smile. Hmm. Yeah, do you think sorry that There’s still the opportunity at the early stage like you had for people to get work experience in dentistry Yeah, it’s been talked about quite a lot recently generally
Sorabh (16:27.778)
I think so. think especially now with the rise of social media on dentistry, there’s so many dentists out there on like doing lots of educational content on Instagram, TikTok, social media. And they get tons and tons of followers. And if you’re, you know, in sixth form, and if you’re looking for work experience, you can reach out to some of these guys. And maybe they’ll invite you along, or you can come along to their practice, you can meet them at lunch or can shadow them. I see no issues with that. I mean, we hired a
Andy & Chris (16:37.826)
Mm. Yep.
Andy & Chris (16:52.876)
Hmm.
Sorabh (16:58.466)
one of our receptionists on a part-time basis, she wants to go into dentistry. So she’s in sixth form. I said, look, you can do some work experience, see what you think. And then, you know, she’s taking a gap year at the moment and she’s reapplying for dentistry next year. And we thought, well, look, if you want to stay on a reception, well, I can’t do anything clinically, but we can help you. We can put you in an admin role, do all the checks and everything. And then we could hire you, we can pay you, and then you can see how things are. So.
Andy & Chris (17:12.919)
Brilliant.
Andy & Chris (17:16.706)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (17:24.514)
Mm.
Sorabh (17:26.218)
I think there is scope for it. think you have to be persistent. I understand the legalities and the insurance and all the indemnity and the GDPR and all that stuff. if you get through that hurdle of admin and bureaucracy and paperwork, then there’s no reason why. I mean, if you really want to get into dentistry and you seriously want to do this for the rest of your life, I think it is possible to find the work experience.
Andy & Chris (17:40.13)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (17:48.194)
That’s really encouraging to hear because as a practice owner, think we get quite a lot of students and younger people listen to this. So I think they’ll be encouraged to hear that that outlook is still there. So for you, you graduated in 2018. What was your dental school experience like? The bit that you can remember?
Sorabh (18:01.506)
in 2018.
Sorabh (18:06.69)
Let’s just get through it, man. I gave up. It was… And I say, I see this because I see the same… So I went to King’s. My first degree was in dental materials, which was at Queen Mary. And the reason for that is I didn’t get into dentistry first time around at 18. So my first degree, dental materials for three years, bachelor of engineering in material science, focusing on dental materials at Queen Mary, which I hated at the time, but I’m incredibly thankful for what…
Andy & Chris (18:12.844)
Where did you, where did you, where did you go?
Andy & Chris (18:24.044)
Huh.
Sorabh (18:36.642)
that did for me in terms of networking, the friends I have, the people I met, and the fact that it’s nice when reps can’t bullshit you anymore because you know where all the things are. I know what they know or to a slightly more in-depth degree, right? So it’s quite nice to know the in-depth and all this stuff about biomimetics and stuff. I was learning this back in 2013, 2014 when we were
Andy & Chris (18:38.505)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (18:46.978)
Because you know, you know what they know. Even more I’d imagine, yeah.
Andy & Chris (19:03.362)
Mm.
Sorabh (19:06.37)
Queen Mary doing dental materials and now it’s a buzzword it’s all come around and I was like all this stuff that they’re teaching on Instagram and all these courses like I did this in my first degree like from 2010 to 2013 like this is
Andy & Chris (19:08.16)
Wow. Ten years old. Yeah. Who even knew there was a dental materials degree? I mean, flip, innit?
Sorabh (19:21.426)
No, well that’s the beauty of clearing through UCAS when you don’t get your grades you find all these amazing courses.
Andy & Chris (19:24.898)
He thought these random, random degrees. But what I love is that was still a segue towards dentistry. It was choice. You the work experience you didn’t get in first time. Dental materials is kind of, it’s still pointing you in the right direction. You didn’t do a degree on Elvis. Yeah.
Sorabh (19:36.523)
It works.
Exactly. And you didn’t want to give up. It was a heartbreaking moment when I didn’t get the grades and I was really broken down about it. then, you know, said to my dad, said, do you want to do this? And I was like, yes, I do. And he was like, don’t give up. That was literally it. was just those two sentences. I was like, all right, cool. That was literally it. That’s how Asian parents back then showed support. But knowing that my dad was happy to support me through it, he was like, look, if this is what you want to do, don’t compromise.
Andy & Chris (19:54.252)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (19:58.891)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (20:08.13)
Mm.
Sorabh (20:08.546)
It might take you another couple of years, might take you little bit longer, but if you get there in the end, you get there in the end. I was like, okay, well, let’s do it. Which worked out well.
Andy & Chris (20:17.398)
which is proven to be great, great advice. So you qualify and then you didn’t hang around, did you? Because by May, 2021, you were a practice owner coming into the sort of dental beauty partnership arrangement. I’m interested. you, one, you weren’t an associate for that long before getting into practice ownership, but also you chose to go down the partnership route as opposed to being a sole principal, just buying a practice on your own. What was the motivation for both really, wasn’t it?
Sorabh (20:27.723)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Sorabh (20:47.052)
So it’s, yeah, it was a pretty interesting one. I think I knew I wanted to go into owning a practice. That was one of the things I wanted to do when I was sort of in foundation year, FT year, and my first year. was like, I wanna own my own practice one day. I don’t know when, I don’t know how, but when it happens, it will happen. I anticipated like five, 10 years out from graduating, I’d buy my own practice. What happened was…
Andy & Chris (21:00.331)
But, mm.
Andy & Chris (21:04.62)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (21:10.774)
Mm.
Sorabh (21:15.834)
I started looking for private jobs, sort of with two years of experience, one year FD, one year as an associate with my portfolio of work. And I would apply to all these roles that had minimum five years, eight years, 10 years experience. And I thought, well, I’m just gonna disregard my like date of birth on there. I’m just gonna send them my work with my CV and my portfolio and all my photos and see what happens. And I got interviews, interviews were great. Once I got to the interview stage and they said, when…
When did you qualify? And I said 2018. So I didn’t lie. I told them straight up and they’re like, you know, this role is for eight years of experience. I was like, yes, but based on my work, you’ve given me this interview because from my work, it looks like I’ve got, you know, four or five years of experience. And that’s not because I’m being an asshole or being cocky about it. It’s just the way I learned during my FD year and the way I learned from sort of third, fourth and fifth year of university was real dentistry happens in the real world. It doesn’t happen at dental school. So at dental school, I would often…
Andy & Chris (21:57.12)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (22:12.479)
Yep.
Sorabh (22:15.414)
go and shadow dentists out in the real world. So one of the guys I shadowed was Payment Sabani. In Hollywood, I saw this case that he posted. It was incredible. I messaged him. I said, I’d love to understand how you plan stuff like this. I think it was with the near case. And back then, everyone was like, cosmetic dentistry, like you shouldn’t be cutting teeth down, et cetera. But then I was like, look, you’ve clearly done this, and you’ve done it incredibly well. Why did you?
Andy & Chris (22:20.822)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (22:28.055)
Hmm.
Sorabh (22:40.13)
Why did you plan it the way you did? How did you manage the occlusion? How did you manage the long-term maintenance? All this other stuff. And he was like, look, I just probably sound like a really annoying kid to him. And he was like, look, why don’t you come down to practice and shadow and see what you can see a case? So was like, yeah, I’d love that. So I went to shadow him. think I was in my third, coming into fourth year. So I went to shadow him. And then I shadowed a couple of other dentists out in the real world. And I learned that what we get taught in dental school is not what you actually do for the rest of your career.
Andy & Chris (22:50.956)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (23:07.244)
Hm. Hm.
Sorabh (23:09.41)
What you get taught in dental school is to follow instructions. You get told to jump and you say how high, that’s what you’re taught. And that didn’t sit right with me. And I was all right, screw this. I’m gonna pass my exams, get the degree, get the qualifications, do all the, you know, jumping through hoops or whatever, and then go and learn it properly. So during my FTE year, I learned from the mistakes that all these other guys did. Cause I always ask these people who were five, six years more qualified than me, what mistakes did you do when you were younger and how did you avoid them? Or how would you avoid them now?
Andy & Chris (23:24.202)
and then learn dentistry.
Andy & Chris (23:37.442)
Mmm. Mmm.
Sorabh (23:39.042)
with everything you know now, what would you do if you’re in my position? And I just did those things. And I started in FD, I started doing courses as a foundation dentist. They’re like, you shouldn’t be doing courses, it’s all in your FD year and your TPD will do it. I was like, my TPD is a dinosaur. He’s a nice guy, but what he’s trying to teach me is like 30, 40, 50 years behind. I was like, nothing’s changed. So I just went off and did it.
Andy & Chris (23:42.402)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (23:57.921)
See you.
Andy & Chris (24:01.696)
Yeah, yeah, it’s not up to date. Yeah
Sorabh (24:08.29)
I was like, screw it, let’s just do it. And learning from the mistakes of other people and then also learning and reflecting on my own work got me these interviews. Didn’t get any jobs. I had two offers. One was a salaried position. was like, I’m definitely being taken advantage of here. I’m not gonna take that on. And then the other one was like really unsociable hours. And I was like, all right, cool, I’m not gonna do this. So I was being to my principal at the time.
Andy & Chris (24:17.174)
Mm-hmm.
Sorabh (24:36.904)
at Denopi E. Croydon, name is Kunal Patel, the endodontist. Probably one of the biggest mentors I’ve had. And he was like, the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. You think a private practice, you’re to make more money. You’re not. It’s much harder to fill your diaries. There’s a lot more costs that goes on. You need to be able to convert and sell and do all these other things, which I was very naive to. He was like, people that make a decent income come from mixed practices. And I’m happy for you to go there.
I’m happy for you to go to these private practices. I’m happy for you to go off and search for a private job. I give you my blessing, but this is my thought. And I was like, it stuck with me. And then after a while he was like, why don’t you consider partnering? I was like, well, what do I need to partner? He told me what the requirements were. I didn’t think it was possible. And he said, look, the main thing is you need to have really good clinical understanding of how to do good treatment plans.
Andy & Chris (25:12.898)
Mm-hmm.
Sorabh (25:34.326)
like understanding full mouth treatment plans, understanding the nuances at all. You don’t have to be experienced enough to do the work because you can hire specialists and you can delegate out to people more advanced and more senior than you. But you need to understand how to plan full mouth treatment with respect to long-term maintenance, occlusion, and all these other things in the background. And if you can do that confidently and you can do it and you’re not going to mess things up, then that could be something that we could consider and then I could put you forward.
Andy & Chris (25:51.582)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Sorabh (26:03.062)
So for a good couple of months, he tested me. referred patients to me that he’s already seen for a consult. And he would go through with me, what’s your treatment plan? And there weren’t easy cases, man. He’d send me a tooth wear case. We’d send me someone who’s completely obliterated their teeth. And he would say, what’s your plan? sometimes he would just send me, he’d call me into a surgery, just show me an OPG and some pictures. He’d be like, plan this case. I was like, what do they want? He was like, just full mouth treatment. Just optimal health and aesthetics.
Andy & Chris (26:12.822)
That’s great. That’s great. That mentoring, isn’t it? It’s brilliant.
Sorabh (26:32.798)
a health first, function second, and aesthetics very last. So as long as I got the health and function right, and then eventually he was like, yeah, it seems like you know what you’re doing, but there’s still a couple of other things you haven’t I’d recommend go do this, this, and this. So he’d tell me what things I’d need to look into to doing in terms of increasing my knowledge skill, and then he’d send me off and do that. And then eventually an opportunity came to partner.
And there was an opportunity for these practices and it took me about six months to decide if I wanted to do it or not. So I sat on this decision for six months and I was like, I thought screw it, man. Like I’m two years out. Why not? I’m jumping into the deep end with two practices, which I’m one of them I’m going to refurb. I’m going to be managing five in each. So 10 surgeries in total. I’ve got 32 people under me as like, you know, support staff, dentists, hygienists, nurses, reception team, et cetera.
Andy & Chris (27:25.078)
Mm-hmm.
Sorabh (27:31.042)
And I was just like, shit, like, and then it’s sink or swim, right? If you jump into the deep end, you sink or swim. But the reason I wanted to go into partnership was I don’t know what I don’t know. And I’m very much aware of what I don’t know. And I know that, okay, I can be a good clinician and I can understand how to manage and plan clinical side of things. I have no idea how to run a business. have no idea what, I was no, I wasn’t really financially literate.
Andy & Chris (27:35.702)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (27:41.804)
Yep.
Sorabh (27:59.35)
I didn’t know how to read a P &L. I didn’t know how to set budgets. I didn’t know what half these financial terms were. And it’s not, right?
Andy & Chris (28:03.774)
And that’s not unusual. You go into learning a technical science-based skill. So you don’t really need to understand PNLs. And it’s a bit of a dirty word.
Sorabh (28:10.242)
Right. So they don’t teach you any of that. And then I thought, well, look, if there’s an opportunity where these guys, Dental Beauty and, you know, Dev and the team and the head office team can hold my hand through the business side of things, and then all I have to do is focus on the clinical side of things, but still having support with the other partners. So if there was a really difficult case and I was like, I don’t know what to do here.
Andy & Chris (28:23.543)
Yep.
Sorabh (28:37.31)
I’ve got specialists that I can rely on to help me plan things. So, well, I was like, look, I’ve got a really good support system here. Worst case, it all goes tits up. Like I learned from experience. I don’t lose anything. I’m still really early on into my career and I can learn from it. Thankfully, it’s been a very, very good process and the practice has been quite successful. They’ve been really good. You know, we’ve 4x’d the EBITDA in three and half years.
the combination of the way I want people to do dentistry, the vision that I have, the way we sort of empower and, you know, motivate our patients and also the support and the system that I’ve had from Dentapetit, which has been fantastic. Now, I just thought this was normal. Then I learned from Samir Patel, who’s been another big influence in my sort of career and my development. And I learned that shit when people go off and buy their first practice.
Andy & Chris (29:18.696)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Sorabh (29:36.266)
It takes like five to seven years for them to get a level of growth that, you know, other people can get in a couple of years. you know, he was telling me about his level of growth and what he’s done with his first practice. And now he’s bought several practices. He’s done amazingly well. And, know, the question I asked to me was a question I asked everyone when I was in my third year with everything, you know, now, what would you do in my position? So, you know, he says, look, the level of growth that I managed to achieve when I was your age.
Andy & Chris (30:00.204)
Hmm.
Sorabh (30:05.652)
in seven years with this practice, I know the systems and the things I need to do to achieve that in three or four years. Because I know what mistakes led to, you know, not being successful. I know what works, I know what doesn’t work, and I’ve gone through it with trial and error. You know, and yes, there are things that are outside of your control. COVID costs a living, the budget which is coming out today. But all of these things are cyclical in nature. Like all of this stuff happens. You know, he went through, you know, you got
Andy & Chris (30:18.784)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (30:24.13)
Hm.
Sorabh (30:35.148)
people that survived the financial crisis of 2008.
Andy & Chris (30:37.03)
yeah, and those external factors, you’re right. We just need to find a way of coping with those. Yeah.
Sorabh (30:40.338)
changing contract and like it. Yeah, you just ride the wave and see it through, right? So all of these factors, I thought, you know what, what’s the worst that can happen? I’ve got support around me. I’ve got people that I can rely on. And the other thing was there were more, much smarter people than me partnering with Denil Bui as well. And I was like, right, let’s do it. And now I’m like, shit.
I’m at these board meetings with the partners and I’m like, I’m on the same table as people that I used to shadow when I was in third year. And that is a very surreal moment. Imposter syndrome still exists for me on a daily basis. I’m sitting on a table with people like Nick Sethi, Payman Sabani, know, Adam Salan and I’m looking at all the incredible work they’ve done, all the teaching they do. And I’m like, shit, I’m on the same table as these guys. Like, you know, my opinion matters to the same as these guys. And I was like, great, this is…
Andy & Chris (31:29.154)
It’s cool.
Andy & Chris (31:34.746)
What does your day to day look like? And that might be hard. You might as well give us the edited down version of it.
Sorabh (31:40.002)
I’m very ad hoc. It’s very ad hoc. How many were? So I do about four clinical days because that’s what I love the most. That’s what I enjoy. But in between my clinic, like during my clinical days, there’s a lot of firefighting, right? Something random will happen and you’ve got to deal with it because you are the principal.
Andy & Chris (31:49.088)
How many clinical days do you do a week, out of interest? Clinical days do you do a week?
Okay. Still a lot. Yeah. Yeah.
Andy & Chris (32:08.662)
The buck stops with you.
Sorabh (32:10.474)
That’s it, right? So, you know, I’ll be going about my day, I like four or five exams in the morning, maybe an Invisalign, maybe a filling, maybe a crown prep. And then out of nowhere, I get a message saying, one of the practices, the compressor has gone down or hey, this needs to be serviced. The autoclave keeps pinging this weird error code. What do I do? And I’m like, I don’t know what to do. So I’m like, okay, well, send me a picture of the error code. Let me send it off to head off and be like, hey, can you ask, you’ve just got to delegate all this stuff and find the right people, right? But then there are times where you’ve got to step in.
Andy & Chris (32:28.78)
you
ask someone else. Yeah.
Sorabh (32:39.836)
So there are times where, you know, I’ve got to be there at like 6.30 in the morning because I’ve got UK power network coming into the surgery to change the fuse boards because the power consumption isn’t going to be right for the new compressor and it keeps shorting out. You know, these are the things that you’ve got to do, which no one talks to you about. It might be 12 o’clock at night and you’re just getting ready to go to bed and you’re going on holiday the next day. You get a text message saying one of your staff is going through something and
You know, there’s been a bereavement, there’s been an emergency, there’s been an alarm, the practice has been true. You’ve got to be able to adapt to these things. And you can’t do this on your own. This is why I think having a partnership is really key or having an incredible practice manager is quintessential in helping to run the practice. So my day today is the things I enjoy. And at any given moment, there might be some random surprise that will happen.
Andy & Chris (33:09.623)
White bean.
Andy & Chris (33:13.767)
So your alarm goes off.
Andy & Chris (33:28.566)
Hmm. Hmm.
Sorabh (33:38.966)
Might be a good one, might be a bad one. We just don’t know, right? You learn to adapt and you learn to take emotion out of it. Like I get very, when something happens, like there’s a half an hour period where I’m just like swearing, taking and just really angry or pissed off that this has happened, it’s ruined my day. Literally happens for about 20, 15 minutes. I’m human at the end of the day, but I’ve got enough self-awareness to know that look.
Andy & Chris (33:41.756)
Every day has a surprise. It’s just negative or positive.
Andy & Chris (33:50.774)
Cough
Andy & Chris (34:04.418)
Mm-hmm.
Sorabh (34:08.546)
It’s not in my control. What’s happened has happened. Let’s fix it. Or let me figure out how to fix it. And then we figure out how long it’s going to take me to fix it. And then I can communicate that to my team. And then the other thing I’ve realized is something that is completely irrelevant and non-essential to me might mean the world to my team.
Andy & Chris (34:10.561)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (34:18.754)
Mm-hmm.
Andy & Chris (34:27.535)
Yeah, really important to somebody else
Sorabh (34:30.132)
The best example is when they asked me, can we get coat hooks? And I was like, this is the most nonsense request I’ve ever heard. Like, what do mean coat hooks? This is like six months into owning the practice. like, yeah, we really want coat hooks. I was like, why? was like, when the patient comes in, they just dump their coats on our chairs. And it’s really awkward because then I don’t know where to put it. And then their coats and their bags were on the nurse’s chair. was like, okay, let me order some coat hooks of Amazon and just I’ll put them up. It took two days. They came the next day, I fitted them all in and then.
Andy & Chris (34:56.482)
Hmm.
Sorabh (34:59.308)
They were over the moon. and then I later learned from Samir’s course, these are what they call critical non-essentials. So they’re non-essential to the running of the business and to the profitability of the business, but they’re absolutely critical for practice culture. And if you get the practice culture right, everything else stems into, everything else works.
Andy & Chris (35:06.145)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (35:14.639)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (35:18.496)
Also, think it’s being listened to as well, isn’t it? The fact that it manifested itself in some coat hooks, but it was a request made that you…
Sorabh (35:23.34)
I think that’s it, yeah.
Andy & Chris (35:30.518)
listened to you took on board and you acted. even things like coffee isn’t it? remember we had a time at some, you know, we bought some coffee because it was cheap for a macro or something, you know, can buy it as bulk and we were like, yeah, right result. And then the team just didn’t like it. So they said, well, we don’t really like the coffee. So we then changed the coffee, but it’s those sorts of really silly, inconsequential
Sorabh (35:35.638)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (35:55.842)
not very expensive things, but they then, if you don’t do anything about them, the problem is they’re a bit like a festering spot. They just get worse. Yeah. And people watch you, watch you, going back to the thing you were saying about culture and leadership, they watch how you react to these requests, how you behave, whether you are listening. So the coat hooks was a massive tick in the box.
Sorabh (36:02.76)
Exactly. It’s going to blow up at some point.
Andy & Chris (36:20.16)
I can’t use some coat hooks, but it wasn’t that wasn’t what it was about. It was about sorry, but sort of guy that does listen to us and he does take action and he does make things happen. I think the beauty of.
Sorabh (36:26.742)
Yeah, now I don’t always get it right. Don’t get me wrong. If you ask my team, they’ll probably say, sorry, I didn’t do this. He didn’t do this. He didn’t do this. Or he didn’t do this quick enough,
Andy & Chris (36:34.463)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (36:38.166)
I think the beauty, Sarah, is as you get more, I mean, we’ve run a business now.
20 odd years or so and the things we did before the the lovely thing is that as you get older there’s still things that will happen that have never happened before and we’re like okay well that’s new but most of the things that happen are things that once you’ve done them happen once you’re like it’s a variation on a theme so i know what i did with that one and i think that’s the great thing of the the more you get on yeah so this so it’s like
Sorabh (37:02.658)
Absolutely.
Sorabh (37:07.522)
And that was another reason why it just made sense for me to partner with Dental PD because I went through problems in my practice and I was like, I don’t know how to manage this person’s current problem or I don’t know how to manage this thing that’s happening. And then, you know, the other partners are, I had this a couple of months ago, this is what I did. I was like, cool. I was like, I’ll just do what you did. And it worked. You’re learning from a collective experience, right? So.
Andy & Chris (37:13.57)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (37:20.77)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (37:26.658)
That in your support system. It’s brilliant. Yeah. You’ve moved quickly, you know, by average standards, you know, from qualification through to partnership. Has there been a cost to this success? Has something being left behind or missed? We talk a lot about success and this isn’t kind of a failure thing. It’s that we can only ever do so much. And has there for you, has there been a cost for this success?
Sorabh (37:45.474)
K
Yeah.
Mm.
Sorabh (37:56.534)
I think that’s a really important question that no one ever considers because they what you see in socials is the highlight reel, right? You post up all your failures and stuff.
Andy & Chris (38:03.806)
Everything’s great. Yeah. Yeah.
Sorabh (38:10.05)
I don’t have regrets because people often ask like, you know, there are good days and bad days and then there’s completely earth shattering crap days where you just want to do nothing and just get swallowed up whole by the earth, right? There are days where you’re on cloud nine and then there are days you’re in the pits of hell and you think you’re at rock bottom and then you realize there’s a whole other level underneath you. But not once.
since qualifying have I ever regretted any decision I’ve made? And that’s one thing that I’m very proud to say with the people I have around me and the team I have. The cost to this, I think there is a personal cost that you need to consider. But I’m very headstrong in what I want to achieve in the next, like I know what I want my life to look like. And I’m happy to pay these prices early on in my career so I don’t have to live.
Andy & Chris (39:07.874)
Mm-hmm.
Sorabh (39:08.918)
So the cost, you ask what is the cost? The cost is I wasn’t around a lot in my first two to three years after graduating when it came to family events. I wouldn’t go to them because I’d be on a course where I’d be shadowing someone or I’d be at work or I’d be learning something or I’d be doing something. You know, there were birthdays, there were events, there were weddings, there were things that were important to my parents that I couldn’t make.
Or if I did come, it’d be for a couple of hours and I’d have to go off again. So a lot of family time suffered. A lot of the relationship I had with my parents suffered. And I could never repay them for all the things they’ve done for me. I helped out where I could. know, the mortgage is now paid off, which is great. That was the first thing I promised myself I’d do. You know, once I started earning a decent amount, everything would go into sort of helping pay back my parents and whatever. So that’s one thing I was very happy that I managed to do.
Andy & Chris (39:41.194)
Yep.
Andy & Chris (39:51.382)
Hmm.
Sorabh (40:07.308)
But the cost is, it’s high because you’ll get into these arguments with your parents. You’ll get into these arguments with the people you love, your friends, your family. And it’s at the cost of, well, I know what my dream is. I know what I want to build. I know what I want to do. And at the end of the day, I alone am responsible for my happiness. And the one thing that drives me quite heavily is, you know, the cost of regret. I don’t want to do anything.
that I’m gonna regret. So if there is an opportunity for me to learn a particular protocol or go on a particular course and I’m like, you know what? I think that’ll be really useful for me. And then I’m like, crap, that means I can’t go to this person’s wedding or this person’s thing or this, this and this. I’m like, okay, what am I gonna regret more? You know, not going to the wedding, not going to this, not going to that. And then things change over time. Don’t get me wrong. The first two, three years, everything I made went into courses.
Andy & Chris (40:44.939)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (40:56.022)
Hmm. Hmm.
Sorabh (41:05.92)
went into self-development, went into paying my parents. I didn’t really save much, didn’t have a property to my name or anything like that. I was literally living paycheck to paycheck. And I wasn’t very financially literate either. So there was a huge, huge personal cost to the relationships I had around me at the time. Do I regret it? No, because at the end of the day, where I am in life now, this is the most success I’ve ever experienced in my life. And I don’t mean monetary.
Andy & Chris (41:06.082)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (41:21.666)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (41:33.421)
Yeah, success is lots of definitions, isn’t it?
Sorabh (41:35.584)
And I used to think success was winning all these awards, being recognized for all this and doing all these things. And I recently did this talk to these young dentists, like Future of Dentistry, Future of Dentistry Summit, or this thing that Joe Lovett had organized. And I was there and there was a slide with all the things I had achieved in the five years I had been qualified. And I looked at it and I looked at these people that I’m talking to and I was like, this stuff is great.
But none of this is success for me, man. The most successful thing was having a drink with my dad on my wedding reception, being able to dance with my mom at my wedding reception, being able to go on all these incredible adventures and trips with my wife, being able to have the time to spend with the people I love. And I didn’t have that in the first two to three years of my after-qualifier.
Andy & Chris (42:31.83)
Mm-hmm.
Sorabh (42:32.63)
And I did pay a price for that. It took me a while to rebuild that. And they didn’t always understand. And I got into so many arguments with my mom. And even now we still argue about some of this stuff. But I said to my mom, look, I don’t regret any of my decisions and I’m really sorry that I’ve put you in these positions. But those two to three years of sacrifice where I’ve had to cut back on all these other things, because she kept…
Andy & Chris (42:35.682)
Hmm.
Sorabh (42:55.894)
having a go at me saying, why are you not saving for a house? Why have you not got any savings? Why have you not got this? Why are you not doing this? Why aren’t you coming to this event, this event or this event? Now I can turn around and I say to my mum, look, I’m really sorry that all those things happened. I’m now in a position in my life where I’ve got all the things I’ve ever wanted in my career in the space of three years instead of 10. And now if anything needs doing, I’m all in. You know, the boiler went.
Andy & Chris (43:24.065)
your present.
Sorabh (43:26.082)
Last month, she messages me, was like, what do you need? She was like, we need a new boiler, this, this and this. was like, taken care of. You know, they wanted to put blinds up in the house. was like, cool, just send me some of the invoice. And that is the most powerful thing that I’ve been able to do. And that is success to me. Right. That was success to me. And then, you know, going on, going on holiday, I know it sounds really stupid, but
Andy & Chris (43:44.778)
Hmm. Hmm. Interesting.
Sorabh (43:56.406)
being able to go on the types of holidays with my friends, doing the things we love. Like we did a trip where we literally drove across the Himalayas in a rickshaw. And I never thought I’d be able to do that in my life. You I went swimming with turtles and sharks and stuff and I was like, I never thought I’d be able to do this in my life. And the reason I can do all those things now is because I put the hard graft in when I was younger. You know, there were times where I would leave the house before my parents did.
Andy & Chris (44:15.238)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (44:20.098)
Hmm.
Sorabh (44:23.958)
by the time I got home, my parents would be asleep. There was a two week period during my final year where I didn’t see my parents for two weeks and I lived at home because I’d be out before they were up and I’d be back home by the time they were asleep. And it wasn’t because I was out drinking or partying. I wish I was, but it’s getting in early, doing the work, going to revise, doing shadowing, doing whatever it is I needed to do, traveling back and forth, meeting all the people I needed to meet. And now it’s paying off and now I’m reaping the dividends of the sacrifices I made.
Andy & Chris (44:30.4)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (44:44.62)
Mm-hmm.
Andy & Chris (44:52.196)
And it’s great for people to hear that story as well because like you say, it’s very easy just to scroll down Instagram and it all looks so glossy and prissy. But I believe there is always a cost. There’s always a cost and people don’t often talk about that. And it would be lovely if the next time you present, you have two slides. You have a slide that shows your awards and the accolades and what you’ve achieved professionally. And then there’s the other side, which is the truth. And for lots of young people, it’s a choice.
Yeah, they can follow your path. Consequences. Yeah, and they will have amazing things happen. But equally, there’s another side to it, is that sometimes things do get kind of left behind or missed. And it is a choice, and there’s a life beyond the day we’re living today. It’s kind of where do you want to be in the future, against what you’re doing today.
Sorabh (45:31.488)
No, absolutely.
Sorabh (45:37.556)
Absolutely. And I think the one thing just to really touch upon this Andy and Chris, I think in my final year and in my FD year, those were the hardest years. That’s when there was a lot of sort of depression. There was a lot of burnout. And, you know, I said in the opening of this speech that I gave in front of these 300 students, you know,
I wasn’t meant to be here because I tried to take my own life back in May 2018 because of everything that was going on. And that was a cost. That was the highest cost. Thankfully I didn’t. I realized that I’m burning out. I’m depressed with what I’m doing. This isn’t healthy. And that was a real turning point.
Andy & Chris (46:12.876)
Bye.
Andy & Chris (46:17.282)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (46:29.974)
the
Sorabh (46:34.434)
And that was something that I’ve been very vocal about since, since after COVID, because I think a lot of people went through a lot of hardships over COVID. A lot of people lost a lot of things. They, paid a very heavy price. And then, you know, and I’m very thankful to, Joe, Joe Lovett, who helped me find my voice in telling my story. And, you know, since then I’ve helped a lot of people sort of realize that, shit, someone as successful as what Saurabh appears to be or.
Andy & Chris (46:37.922)
Hmm. Hmm.
Andy & Chris (46:43.659)
Definitely.
Andy & Chris (46:47.266)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (47:00.864)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Sorabh (47:03.823)
has gone through this and you I still get imposter syndrome, I still burn out, I still have anxiety about certain things but I’m more self-aware on how to manage and control.
Andy & Chris (47:12.907)
Did you do counselling for when you were at that stage? I think it’s so important that people realise that don’t try and just deal with it on your own. Talk to people.
Sorabh (47:15.702)
Yeah, yeah, Absolutely.
Sorabh (47:23.426)
It took a while for me to process it. So that was the hardest part. And he wasn’t like, you know, I was like, okay, cool. Well, you know, this is what I went through. And the next day I was like, I’m going to call up a counselor. It wasn’t like that. I wish I was that self aware. I had to process what I was planning on doing. And that took me a good while. And I realized this is not who I am. This is not my identity of who I
Andy & Chris (47:33.889)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (47:37.506)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (47:42.658)
Mm.
Andy & Chris (47:49.602)
Mm.
Sorabh (47:53.152)
identify myself as. This isn’t the values that I’ve been brought up with. Why did I go down this dark path? Why did I go down that route of, you know, you know, suicidal thoughts? Why did I plan to take my own life? Why were those thoughts in my head? And that took some time to process. And I couldn’t speak to anyone about it. Couldn’t speak to my friends, couldn’t speak to my family, couldn’t speak to anyone that I knew or loved. For the social stigma.
Andy & Chris (48:00.386)
Hmm.
Andy & Chris (48:06.391)
Yeah.
Sorabh (48:21.994)
the fear. So I thought I need to find someone who’s completely disassociated from my life, someone who I don’t know at all. And it took me a while to find the right sort of therapist and counsel. And when I did, it was probably one of the best things I did. Just unloading and finding out what led to that event. And now having the tools to prevent that from ever happening.
Andy & Chris (48:27.808)
Yeah, yeah.
Andy & Chris (48:45.73)
At that point,
Andy & Chris (48:51.571)
Good.
Sorabh (48:51.638)
than being able to share that story to prevent that from ever happening to anyone else.
Andy & Chris (48:56.436)
Which I think is really, think that’s part of it, isn’t it? Sharing it that people then are, it’s not just me or someone else who, as you say, appears to have it all, but inverted commas, whatever, has those same thoughts. think it’s that thing, isn’t it? It’s sharing the multi-dimensional.
Sorabh (49:09.29)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (49:14.654)
Aspects of life. It’s not just sharing. yeah, I qualified I bought a practice. I’ve got a big team. We’re making this right Everything’s great, know on to the next one. It’s it’s you know We all have different elements to our lives and I think it’s it’s really brave and honest of you to share it in this way because there’ll be a lot of other people that will be scratching the heads going I don’t feel great at the moment and Perhaps I need to have a chat to somebody now before I end up a bit further down that that path
Sorabh (49:35.446)
Yeah.
Sorabh (49:41.43)
Yeah, and I’ve had countless messages from students. And that’s the scary part, Chris and Andy, it’s students. And I was like, nothing’s changed in five, 10 years. Yeah, and they’re still going through the same stuff that I was going through five, six years ago, so nothing’s changed.
Andy & Chris (49:53.268)
But that was you, but that was you, wasn’t it? Yeah, that was you at the end of your degree. You were in that situation.
Yeah, yeah, and a lot of it’s self-imposed. It’s self-imposed pressure from what they are perceiving. They should maybe be like and they’re failing. It’s just like and it is even even the stage that you’re at and it’s interesting Listening to you talk about why you went into partnership Dentistry is is a surprisingly lonely profession. Mmm. Yeah, lots of people spend
Sorabh (50:06.08)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (50:23.65)
Hours locked away in a room with their nurse and and there will be professional communication But sometimes not much beyond the professional communication and patients are spinning in and out of the chair every 20 minutes It’s not a particularly healthy environment. They don’t see the profession outside of their surgery. Isn’t second highest suicide rate Yeah, think yeah always used to be farmers were first and then it was dentistry and it’s and it’s
In many ways it’s a shame you went through the experience you did. It’s also great that you’re talking about it because it doesn’t mean that other people, it gives them license to reach out to you or perhaps get some help from themselves or talk to other people because that’s kind of where it all sort of gets stopped in terms of people who end up further down that path. I remember someone telling me once about that, you know those little toys you get as a…
Sorabh (51:08.31)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (51:12.79)
It’s like in a tube. It’s like a glass and it’s got that funny snake in it. yeah. And when you take the lid off, goes, yeah. And there was quite often what you need people to do is just learn to take the lid off and it will come out. But that’s sometimes what you’ll need as a as a counselor is they’ll take the lid off so as you can let go of those things. Otherwise, it just slowly builds up. It’s mad. Just a twist things before we finish up. So can you remember the first patient?
Sorabh (51:20.066)
Thanks.
Andy & Chris (51:42.146)
you ever treated.
Sorabh (51:43.868)
No.
Andy & Chris (51:45.748)
Is that because it was so painful? For you, not the patient.
Sorabh (51:48.756)
I think it was, I think it’s because of like the intensity of like your first patient. was probably just a simple checkup to be fair, but you’re so panicked about, okay, I’ve got to check their ID. I’ve got to check their medical history. I’ve got to ask if they smoke. I’ve got to check that. You know, I’ve got to go through Socrates. I’ve got to go through this and then I’ve got to write this down in my notes. And then you’re just like, by the time you’re ended, you finished it. Well, you’re like, I completely forgot who they were or what they were. Well, the ones I do remember.
Andy & Chris (51:55.042)
Mmm.
Andy & Chris (51:58.666)
Yeah, yeah.
Andy & Chris (52:04.33)
Yeah
Andy & Chris (52:13.952)
You’re exhausted.
Sorabh (52:18.402)
This is a really weird one, but I always remember…
Andy & Chris (52:19.331)
That’s a shame because we had Mrs Johnson who was about to come in. It’s all right Mrs Johnson, he doesn’t remember you.
Sorabh (52:23.226)
Yeah. The weird thing is I always remember my first Invisalign patient for all the practices I’ve worked in. The first one in each practice I always remember because I’m like, I don’t know why. I think it’s because you spend, you see them every four to six weeks for reviews and checking and you kind of build that rapport, which I really enjoy. I think I really love the interpersonal side of it.
Andy & Chris (52:31.98)
Right.
Andy & Chris (52:38.786)
That’s interesting.
Andy & Chris (52:49.57)
That’s true, suppose, isn’t it?
Sorabh (52:51.488)
getting to know them, finding out the human side of it. That’s what I love the most. think. Yeah.
Andy & Chris (52:55.402)
Hmm It’s more than I’ve seen your brother But that but that goes right back to the very top of the top of the episode doesn’t it when you’re talking about you were that 16 year old kid sitting in the corner of the surgery You’ve got a broken patient. You know, she’s really upset and it’s that that human connection that person and it’s a very different situation, but you’re
Sorabh (53:07.959)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (53:19.074)
your view on building relationships and impacting lives hasn’t really changed much. Okay, in that case it was providing aligners and it’s going to improve their smile. At the very beginning it was seeing somebody who just needed a tissue or a glass of water. But it’s lovely to hear that that was spotted so early by you and it still carries on. It continues. Yeah.
Sorabh (53:32.63)
Yeah, yeah, that’s it.
Sorabh (53:37.984)
Yeah, and I think this is what I try and sort of help a lot of young dentists with is communication. Because you can be the best dentist in the world, you can have all the great technical skills, but it’s not gonna help you if you can’t connect with the person in front. And then the other thing is you can spend…
Andy & Chris (53:46.156)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (53:55.008)
can’t speak properly.
Sorabh (53:59.734)
thousands on courses to learn these technical skills. You go back in Monday morning, but if you can’t explain the value of what you do or what you provide or connect and build genuine connection and rapport and be authentic, that’s the key here to be your authentic self. What’s the point? You’re just throwing that money away. And then, yeah, I think communication is the most important thing in life, especially in our profession, being able to connect.
Andy & Chris (54:06.463)
Hmm
Andy & Chris (54:15.564)
Yep.
Yeah.
Sorabh (54:28.258)
and build trust with people, whether it’s your team, whether it’s your nurse, whether it’s your patient, is quintessential to having a successful career, but more importantly, a stress-free career. And if you’ve inspired trust around your team and the people around you, you can’t fail because if something goes wrong, it’s not just you on your own. You’ve got everyone there helping you. And it goes…
Andy & Chris (54:40.204)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Andy & Chris (54:54.273)
Mm.
Sorabh (54:55.634)
someone else if something goes wrong with my nurse or my associate or my receptionist I don’t isolate them I’ve got the entire practice rallying around them to help them get through whatever issue or problem they’re facing and I think that’s a really fantastic thing to build but you can’t do that unless you have the right communication
Andy & Chris (55:05.218)
Mm.
That’s a great culture.
Andy & Chris (55:15.598)
Absolutely, So we could talk all day, honestly, but we need to wrap up because it’s been a wonderful conversation. as ever, you don’t get out of the studio until we ask you two questions. So our first question for you is if you could be a fly on the wall in a situation, where would you be and who would be there?
Sorabh (55:19.842)
Yeah, I think, yeah. No, of course, of course. I’ve been blabbing on.
Sorabh (55:31.724)
Okay.
Sorabh (55:39.881)
So.
Sorabh (55:43.65)
Gosh, you know how to ask like really difficult questions, don’t
Andy & Chris (55:46.53)
It’s the fun part of what we do.
Sorabh (55:50.474)
I don’t know. I think the one thing that comes to my mind for me, does it have to be dental? gosh, that. Okay, fine.
Andy & Chris (55:56.502)
No, no, can be anything. Whatever you want.
Sorabh (56:01.41)
The industry is great, but it’s just teeth at the end of the day. No, you know what? It’s really weird. So I’m a massive F1 fan. I’d love to have been a fly on the wall when they made that decision for Max and Lewis at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. Yeah, I wanted to know what was going through Michael Mass’s head.
Andy & Chris (56:03.106)
It could be Nelson Mandela if you wanted it to be or.
Andy & Chris (56:15.404)
but in Abu Dhabi, Michael Massey, for people that don’t realize that there was a safety car situation.
Sorabh (56:23.742)
I’m just like, what was going on in that room? What conspiracy theories were flying around? What was happening? Why did he make that decision? Because that has completely echoed through the next couple of seasons. But yeah, that’s that’s I think that would be my answer. I just I just want to know.
Andy & Chris (56:27.296)
Yeah. I’ll say yeah. Well, he was being paid more money.
Andy & Chris (56:38.802)
yeah.
Andy & Chris (56:44.306)
I don’t think it was any more complicated than Michael Massey just wanted an absolute dream, dream ending to the season. And he didn’t want that race to finish under a safety car, which is what would have happened. And I think he wanted a dream ending and he didn’t accept or reflect on the fact that there are rules in place for what has to happen. He completely disregarded those and did his own thing. was like a rope.
Sorabh (56:49.376)
I think he just wanted tails. Yeah.
Sorabh (57:07.234)
I wanna know what, if other people in the room with him were like, what the hell are you doing? Or if he’s like, listen, I’m making this decision on my own.
Andy & Chris (57:11.234)
It’s probably no different than some of the VAR decisions on football. No. Good answer. What mean it wasn’t offside? And if you could meet somebody, sorry, who would you like the opportunity to sit down and have a coffee and And it doesn’t have to be dental again? No, it doesn’t have to be dental. Anyone you like. Living or dead? Fact or fiction?
Sorabh (57:16.736)
Yeah, absolutely, But that was, that was, yeah, that’s what I remember.
Sorabh (57:30.786)
this is tough.
Okay, there’s, I can’t narrow it down to one, there’s two. Can I have two? Well, technically, one’s a person and one’s like a group. Does that count? I think the first one, I think for me, I’d probably want to meet my grandfather again, who passed away when I was 11, and just have a conversation on like, just life. I think that’d be cool. That’s probably the deeper answer.
Andy & Chris (57:41.14)
Okay, we’ll let you have two then. can have two. Yeah, you can have two. Why not? Okay. Yeah, go on then. That’s more than two really, isn’t it?
Andy & Chris (57:58.818)
Right.
Andy & Chris (58:04.098)
Mm-hmm.
Sorabh (58:07.714)
The more fun answer, I would say I’d love to meet Jeremy Clarkson, James May and Richard Hammond and just have a pint with them and just hear all their stories and plan the next crazy road adventure with my mates. That’s probably what I’d want to do. Yeah, because we did that a couple of years ago. As I said, we drove across the Himalayas. Now we’re like planning the next one in like 2026, 2027. We’ll another big trip.
Andy & Chris (58:16.737)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (58:24.547)
That’d be a good conversation.
Andy & Chris (58:30.476)
Yeah.
Andy & Chris (58:34.444)
Sounds like the Namibian desert to me. Yeah.
Sorabh (58:37.346)
Yeah, you’ve got to live life, man. You can’t be surrounded by the same four walls Monday to Friday, nine to five. There’s whole world to see. So live life. That’s it.
Andy & Chris (58:42.146)
No. Long time dead. Yeah.
Brilliant. So thank you for your time. It’s been a joy. Yes, yes, great. We’ve moved very quickly through an awful lot and you’re still relatively early on in your career. So you’ll definitely be somebody that we’ll love to have back on. He’s a young man and we will Love to have you back on at some point.
Sorabh (58:51.682)
Thank you so much for having me on guys. It’s been a pleasure.
Sorabh (59:01.934)
Let’s hope so. That’s too kind of you guys. Thank you. Thank you very much guys. Take care.
Andy & Chris (59:06.058)
No, but yeah, look after yourself. Cheers, sir. Cheers,
