Transcript – Dentology Podcast with Tif Qureshi
Episode release date: Monday 18th September 2023
Andy & Chris:
How are you doing today? You all right? Very good. Looking forward to this one as well. Me too. Can I say an elder statesman in the dental profession? Well we’ll see in a minute whether he accepts that or rejects it. Yeah, I think so. I think we could go with that. He’s definitely been around for a while, I tell you. So today we are really fortunate we have Tiff Qureshi joining us and Tiff qualified from King’s College London back in 1992. Tiff Elder-Statesman. Elder-Statesman, recent ex-principal of Dental Agents in the CID Cup, having recently sold to Dentex, past president of the British Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry and clinical director of the IAS Academy. Welcome Tiff, how are you doing? Yeah, welcome.
tif:
I’m great. Thanks very much for having me today guys.
Andy & Chris:
No, not at all, not at all, we’re looking forward to it. We’ve got a lot to get through. You’ve got a lot going on. I’ll tell you what’s interesting, isn’t it, as we all get older, being the eldest person here. That 92 to me doesn’t actually seem that long ago, but that’s 30 plus years. It’s like, oh flip, that is quite a long time, isn’t it? Ha ha!
tif:
It’s true, it’s true. Well I think when you’re at this age, a lot of your mind and your emotions are still back in those days, aren’t they? You don’t really
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
feel like you’re 50 something, you still feel like
Andy & Chris:
No,
tif:
you’re 20.
Andy & Chris:
no. There’s a great book called Factfulness that taps into that and it says that effectively the world is getting better but we’ve never upgraded our thinking. So it asks you questions like how many girls in Africa complete education to the age of 16 and typically people go 30, 40% and it’s upwards of 80, 85% but
tif:
Very nice.
Andy & Chris:
Because we’ve always kind of learnt stuff back in the 70s or 80s. We’ve never upgraded our thinking. And the reason for the book is to say that most people in the world are connected through the internet. Most people are educated. Most people have access to water. But we don’t upgrade it. So I think you’re right. There’s a danger that you kind of get caught. with lots of these mindset things from decades
tif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
ago. Yeah, definitely. I always remember listening to Driving Somewhere and I think it was, I can tell you, it must have been 1989 when they said, Boomtown Rats, I think it was, that song is now 40 years old. And you’re like, oh my goodness. I don’t like
tif:
Robbie.
Andy & Chris:
Mondays. And it is, those dates thing, they just think about, you don’t think they’re that long ago, but then to other people, they’re like, that’s ancient.
tif:
Okay.
Andy & Chris:
Well, yeah, there’ll be there’ll be many people listening to this as younger dentists or students who are like the nineties. My granddad talks about that. Did they do dentistry in the nineties? Well, this is quite a nice segue to our to our opener, which is staying in the in the past. And what was your childhood like? Where did you grow up? You go your siblings, just you. What did that look like?
tif:
Yeah, I’ve got brother and sister. I’m sort of the middle of three. We basically grew up in Worcester, near somewhere in Malvern, somewhere like that, the Malvern Hills or somewhere. I can’t make this, something called Poick, I think we lived for a few years. My parents are both doctors and then they got a practice in Medway towns, not very glamorous area of Gillingham in Kent, which is, you know, it’s okay, but it hasn’t changed much over the last 50 years. And then, yeah, we kind of grew up there for a little while and then… ended up going to school in Rochester in Kent, which really probably had quite a big impact on, I don’t know whether, on my thinking and my life really. It was a King’s school, Rochester. It’s like a cathedral school. So it was quite a bit of a culture shock for me. And that sort of very odd place, real traditional public school, the kind of stuff that went on back in those days you probably can’t talk about anymore. But…
Andy & Chris:
Hahaha
tif:
I better not mention it. But yeah, very odd place, but then also very eccentric. The one thing I think it did is it kind of brought me out of my shell. It gave me confidence to speak to people. It doesn’t matter what
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
background you’re from. You know, it was really odd actually, but they really were hard and kind of enabling you to communicate well and to relate to people. So yeah, I went to school there. And then being from my background, Asian background. You basically don’t have, back in those days, you didn’t really have much option when you went to university. You were pretty much told you were either going to be a doctor, a dentist, a pharmacy or a lawyer. One of those. And you didn’t really
Andy & Chris:
Such
tif:
have the
Andy & Chris:
a
tif:
choice.
Andy & Chris:
common story.
tif:
It almost sounds abusive under today’s standards,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
but it wasn’t. Our parents were kind of doing that for us because they were sort of trying to protect us. Because they felt that those were the routes that you could go.
Andy & Chris:
And is there a general view for people of your age that you’re grateful to your parents for that very clear direction?
tif:
Yeah, I think so, definitely.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
I mean, I think it’s, particularly now, seeing my kids kind of do what they want, I almost feel like I’m sort of letting them down in a weird way, although I’m giving them more freedom.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
So yeah, I think the problem with that is it’s very easy to then have people who go into professions who are not really right for the profession.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
tif:
And I still think that exists, actually, and you kind of, and if you are, good at dentistry, well, to a certain degree, it’s kind of luck that you’re enjoying it. So yeah, that was the initial early route and applied to several universities. I think I only got one offer from King’s and I took the offer and I managed to get the grades. I managed to get it.
Andy & Chris:
So the choices you had, albeit a limited choice, why was it dentistry that stood out over the others? Because you’ve also got both your parents are doctors.
tif:
Well, I think my dad kept telling me don’t be a doctor. He kept telling me, but partly because he had
Andy & Chris:
So
tif:
got
Andy & Chris:
that’s just become a choice of three, hasn’t it? Even though you put.2 in the pot, it wasn’t really there.
tif:
it. Yeah, it was. I think he was quite soft, deprecating in many ways. He always sort of, doctors always had this sort of, you know, God attitude, you know? I mean, it’s a bit of a cliché, isn’t it, that they think they’re God’s type of thing because they
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
got medicine, but he always could see the faults in medicine. And he also has a slightly different… pathway and that he was actually also a police doctor. So I think he saw quite an interesting aspect of medicine, which was probably a bit unpleasant as well. Anyway, but who I have to thank for kind of giving me the bit of impetus was my cousin, who’s pretty well known in dentistry. His name is Mansur Qureshi. He works in Essex in Oxford. And I just spent a couple of afternoons with him, bit of work experience and just listening to him. and how relaxed you was about dentistry and how you’re kind of your own boss. It was music to my ears really. I didn’t want that kind of career where you spend half your life basically brown-nosing your way up a pathway where you’ve, you know, I wanted to get to where I wanted to get to reasonably quickly and be my own boss. And it’s a cliche, but dentistry really does give you that most of the time.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you say you applied to a few places, but you got into Kings are all places, which lots of people put as the best dental school in the country. And I’m sure there’ll be people that would argue for and against, but this was back in 92. And we were saying just before we started recording that for us 92, it doesn’t feel that long ago, but for many people, that’s kind of the dark ages. And
tif:
on.
Andy & Chris:
we recently spoke with Tane Kilkarny, Qualifying Kings passed out in the last couple of weeks. So to get his very current experience of dental school was fascinating. But what was yours like back in the early 90s going through dental school?
tif:
Well, I mean, I actually, bear in mind, I actually went to dance school in 88, so we’re talking
Andy & Chris:
Right,
tif:
even
Andy & Chris:
so
tif:
earlier.
Andy & Chris:
you
tif:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
graduated
tif:
so I was…
Andy & Chris:
in 92,
tif:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
tif:
nice to do. So I was the four years and one term at that point, that’s what it was. It was quite scary actually. And at the age of sort of 17, 18 or 18, you sort of get dropped into that environment. I think the first year is quite nice because you’re on the Strand campus feeling like a proper student. So you’re not really doing dentistry. It’s just medicine. It’s just basically medical education, biochemistry. But the three years after that, or three years in a term, they were quite frightening because you’re suddenly dropped into this situation where you are treating people clinically. And back in those days, now again, I can only go by what I’ve understood what happens over the last few years. But back in those days, we treated a lot of patients. We did a lot of actual work where we were
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
tif:
having to do stuff. And you were given kind of free rein to do pretty much a lot of stuff. You did a lot of dentistry. But. Back in those days also, you got shouted at on the clinics a lot and
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
students were, you know, people ended up in tears and people in, and it was, yeah, but that wasn’t a reflection of the Kings. That’s just the way times were back in those
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
tif:
days.
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
tif:
And it was, you know, quite easily, you could describe it as, you know, the school at Hard Knocks, so to speak. You learn the hard way, but
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
you did get a lot of experience. And despite there being some really interesting, quite strange people teaching there. I also think I was very lucky in that I had some of the best teachers, in my opinion, in the world there as well. Who, interestingly, are still involved and are still there. I’m going to name a couple of names, but the people that really influenced me a lot, who I really thank to this day are people like Martin Kelleher. So I was like one of, you know, Martin taught me for a good two or three straight years, you know, shouted at me quite a bit and a lot of this and that. But actually it was really good to learn from him. And also Brett Robinson. And also… Brian Miller, people like that.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
So I was really lucky. I feel really lucky to be to be taught by those people.
Andy & Chris:
Do you think the shift has gone too far the other way in that perhaps students today aren’t getting as much clinical hands-on experience as perhaps they need? I’d say the young ones probably wouldn’t cope with the shouting very well, would they? No.
tif:
Yeah, I mean, I don’t think that’s the fault of the uni alone or, you know, the teaching structure. Obviously, Covid’s been a massive problem.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah.
tif:
You know, that’s been thrown a span in the works for lots of reasons. But I think also there are, you know, just I think risk and law has made things more difficult as well. There’s other things that just don’t happen in dental school, you know, in 2023 should be happening every day. For example, they just don’t use cameras. They don’t even use interaural cameras. And if they need to use a camera, they have to sign it out, some document to sign it out. And I think what people need to understand is that dentistry, photography is dentistry. If you don’t do photography as you’re doing dentistry, you don’t really develop your dentistry. And so whether you’re using interaural camera, extaural cameras, that, you know, every single dentistry student, everything they do, they should be taking pictures of what they’re doing. and then reevaluating it later on. So there’s lots of little things that I think, with technology nowadays, it should be happening on the clinics, but for some odd reason, I don’t know what it is, but it isn’t happening. And anecdotally, it does seem like they do get less experience, but I can’t say
Andy & Chris:
It’s
tif:
that’s,
Andy & Chris:
interesting isn’t it? It’s almost
tif:
yeah.
Andy & Chris:
like you wonder whether they feel they’re selling out to the commercial world or you know what I mean? And that sort of thing, oh well cameras only relate to private dentists. I don’t know, but it’s an interesting one isn’t it? The fact
tif:
It is, but…
Andy & Chris:
that they won’t, that they haven’t evolved the syllabus or the education to bring that in.
tif:
I hear what you’re saying actually. I think that it may be that, but I think if you look at why, what the biggest problems are in dentistry, if you kind of poll the population, what is it about dentists? I think you’ll see the comments of lack of trust come up quite well at high. And I think people generally, and I don’t like to say this, but a lot of people have quite a dim view of dentistry that has been the same for years. It’s the same 30 years ago. I can tell you, and we might get to this a little bit later on, but I can tell you that what changed my career was an intraoral camera. It literally was. If every single dentist used an intraoral camera every single checkup, the trust issues would disappear virtually overnight.
Andy & Chris:
I tell you what, that’s a real interesting one. When you think that we went to that, I can’t remember, it’s called the Global Dental Collective in Ranch. And when Ranch was, that’s the Ranch of town, was talking about, you know, one of the biggest things you think is that people forget and they don’t realize that they need to learn how to communicate with people. And just listening to you, Tiff, in a way, using the camera is a great way of communicating to people. So why don’t people, why aren’t they trained to do that? Because they might not be the best verbal communicators, but they are communicating and building a relationship. And it makes you wonder whether that would result in less GDC issues or whatever. I don’t know, it’s fascinating to me. Never really thought about it.
tif:
I have no doubt it would and you know, we were, as part of my journey I think I mentioned to you previously that I had a bit of a downturn at point and it was actually that camera that switched that round for me. So I think it’s really, really important that everyone does, you know, at least intend to sort of pick up a camera at some point during the day. My, you know, as I said, I use an internal camera for every single checkup. So my dental chart is our camera shots. It’s not that stupid little three-year-old toddler drawing that everyone uses, which is utterly useless because you can’t really
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
tell if anything has changed. So the whole point of taking a single… short of a tooth is that you can go back five, ten, fifteen years and you can see
Andy & Chris:
But
tif:
what…
Andy & Chris:
it’s funny, isn’t it? Because in certain aspects of dentistry, tech is just coming in so quickly and so fast, with solutions like Pearl, which is kind of AI-led. So you’ve got these commercial propositions that are available in dentistry. Yet at dental school level, it still feels like it’s a very analogue learning process. So it does feel like the learning process needs upgrading, because for students to come out. Outdated almost. Yeah, and have never. used a camera or understand the power of a camera. Because like you say, from a recording point of view, they’re amazing. As a sales aide, they’re amazing. From building trust, they’re amazing. So you’ve got something that you’ve cited through your career, that this is the most important thing I have, in terms of technology. This is the thing. Yet it doesn’t feature at dental school at all. And you can’t believe it’s down to money, even though they’ll argue about it, because you could sort of say, in a way, if I was… I Turo or any scanner or anything you think well tell you what I’ll get those into the dental school Because
tif:
it.
Andy & Chris:
those are those are my clients the future is this interesting one. Yeah. Yeah, you just touched on it then tiff you were saying about you know your career and you you’ve referred to as being a bit of a roller coaster and Quite quite oddly as a segue you say you nearly left and did games testing what? What were the elements within the profession that were testing you? Why did you find it challenging? And why did we nearly lose you from the profession?
tif:
Because I think the first five years, so did VT, which actually I’ve quite enjoyed. And then I, the first practice I went to, which was actually dental elegance, the same price
Andy & Chris:
Yep.
tif:
now, it was at that stage, it was 100% NHS practice, so.
Andy & Chris:
Did you do your training at dense elegance? Is that what you did your training?
tif:
No, I did my VT
Andy & Chris:
Right.
tif:
in Rochester. I
Andy & Chris:
Ah,
tif:
did
Andy & Chris:
right,
tif:
my
Andy & Chris:
okay.
tif:
VT in Rochester. And then basically I got this job, because I kind of wanted to move a little nearer to London.
Andy & Chris:
Right sure.
tif:
And I basically then took a job in where I am now, in Blackfern in Sitka.
Andy & Chris:
Yep.
tif:
And that, as I said, was 100% NHS, 50% exempt practice, busy, really, really busy. I kind of sort of enjoyed it for the first few years, but I think, and then after a few years, you just start to get… I just started to feel a little bit aggravated by, in every single day, every couple of days or something, you’d tell the patients what they need, you’re looking, saying you need this, you need that, whatever, and then someone would look up at you and say, oh, is that so, am I paying for your portion? Are you going to Barbados this year? Or something
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
like that. And although, while it might sound a bit amusing, when it happens every single day to you and you’re trying to help people and then they don’t
Andy & Chris:
gets
tif:
believe
Andy & Chris:
tiring.
tif:
you. It gets tiring and then actually you see them, you’re taking their tooth out, which actually if you’ve just done something about it, you wouldn’t be taking their tooth
Andy & Chris:
Hmm,
tif:
out and
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
tif:
they’re kind of screwing you for it. I just found the whole thing, at that point I just thought, why am I doing this? I actually
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
wanted to help people, you felt like you couldn’t and there’s definitely, and I know it’s a bit of a maybe, it’s not a nice thing to say, but there is definitely an entitlement mentality within certain aspects of doing an NHS dentistry. I’m sorry but there is. Some people might not like
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. Hmm.
tif:
it. that but there is and people and you don’t have to just it’s not just medicine it’s not what dentistry it’s medicine look at the way look at the way the people treat the NHS let alone
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
the way treated by they abuse the system and
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
as a result they think they think that the you know the few pennies a week they paid in National Insurance is somehow going to kind of cover them hundreds of thousands of pounds of bloody treatment parma language
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
but it isn’t that’s the point they don’t they don’t do the sums
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
tif:
anyway
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
tif:
see I’m ranting here but at that point
Andy & Chris:
It’s all part of the therapy, Sif. It’s all part of the therapy.
tif:
But at that point I was also, I’ve always been into computer games, I still am now, I mean it’s a bit sad but I still quite enjoy PC stuff you know, but I was doing, I was playing a lot of games and I was kind of also doing a little bit of games testing and stuff and so quite literally I was about to sort of, I was literally semi-serious about sacking it all off and actually getting a job in testing and trying to learn how to do coding or something you know that sort
Andy & Chris:
I
tif:
of
Andy & Chris:
won.
tif:
thing. I was certainly not going to be a huge talent in that field, but
Andy & Chris:
FIFA 98.
tif:
I could still hold my own when it comes to games. I still can now. I occasionally play games and I’m the oldest person on a Call of Duty group and
Andy & Chris:
Have
tif:
I can
Andy & Chris:
fun!
tif:
still win every now and then, even at 53. But the
Andy & Chris:
I
tif:
point
Andy & Chris:
think
tif:
being,
Andy & Chris:
during
tif:
yeah.
Andy & Chris:
lockdown, I think there were some games, there were some games groups going on during lockdown with some guys, weren’t there? I wonder if that’s to do with the great dexterity of their fingers and, you
tif:
There
Andy & Chris:
know, because I’m rubbish. I’m so,
tif:
was
Andy & Chris:
I’m
tif:
a secret
Andy & Chris:
so slow.
tif:
group, there was quite a large semi-secret dental gaming group that we had developed, yeah there’s a few names I’m sure you’ve already interviewed them. But yeah so that was there and I was kind of quite close to sacking oil off from honest video, I wasn’t happy, I put it this way, I wasn’t happy and I was, you know people use the word depressed and that sort of stuff quite easily but I probably was actually, I wasn’t
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
happy. And so a couple of things stopped me. As I first thing really, my dad wasn’t very happy about me leaving dentistry. But the thing that really did help was that in 1997, my boss, who’s obviously now my partner, has been my partner up to now for a while, Dan Patel, he saw on this, in a dentistry magazine or something, that there was a demonstration of the first interaural camera in the UK. some Panasonic ZX Pro or something. So we went along, we looked at it and we just bought it. And very rudimentary, you know, camera on a stick, you could pause the image. And obviously
Andy & Chris:
The
tif:
we,
Andy & Chris:
box probably about this big. Yeah.
tif:
yeah, it was massive. It wasn’t especially cheap, wasn’t especially expensive either. But I can tell you something, from that day on, and then obviously with all the subsequent camera, intro camera technology we’ve had since, and actually we’ve… I’m actually only on my second or third Cambrian that whole time. But since that day, I can genuinely say, I don’t think I’ve ever had a day where I thought a patient has doubted a word I’ve said. I mean, how amazing is that?
Andy & Chris:
Wow, that’s all down to an interval camera.
tif:
Literally, and it’s just literally down to the relationships that you build with these people and you show, and what’s really crazy is I can get a new patient in, I had a new patient in the other day, in fact, yesterday. And she’s quite… been around with patients, obviously had a lot of dentistry over the years, and she sat down, I took some shots with this camera, and she said, I looked at the screen, she goes, oh wow, isn’t technology amazing? And I said, well, I’ve had one of these cameras since 1997, and you’re telling me you’ve never seen your teeth on the screen? No, no, never seen it. I’m thinking, what are people doing? You know,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
why it’s so useful is that the patient gets a completely different perspective of their dentist.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm, mm.
tif:
It’s all you talk about. you don’t waste time talking about anything else. You then don’t have to justify your fees so much.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, that’s true.
tif:
I found that the more I showed patients, the more I showed NHS patients what was wrong with their teeth, really wrong with their teeth, the less they asked about what it cost to fix it.
Andy & Chris:
Right.
tif:
That’s the truth of it. The more people understand what’s going on in the mouse, the more they actually value the cost to fix it.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
That’s the, and this is a real thing that, you know, all the representatives of dentistry and whatever, they don’t understand this. They don’t
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
understand it. You cannot explain, you can’t just tell people you need this, you need that. They have
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
tif:
to see it, and they also have to see it over the long term, meaning
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
tif:
my checkups, if you look on my computer, on this particular system, I’ve got like nearly 17 years worth of checkups,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
photographs of all those patients.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
And it’s mind blowing when you look at it, I mean, you think about
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
it, and the patients really start to understand how their teeth are changing.
Andy & Chris:
But
tif:
Or.
Andy & Chris:
also it’s a very different world where you’re able to show an image, particularly if you’ve got a patient base with a preconceived notion that perhaps they’re putting some new tires on a Porsche. Yeah, sure. It then takes it completely away from being you and money and them and their whole health. You can show change, can’t you? Yeah. Which is so powerful.
tif:
Exactly. You know what, it really shows that you kind of care. And you also the other thing you have to do occasionally, you have to show them something that you did three years ago, and it might look a bit naff. And that’s
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
happened to me. And I’ve looked at and I’ve put something on the screen and I can always see a feeling I’ve got done three years ago, and there’s a I know there’s a stain or a chip out of it or something. Then I’m looking at it thinking, that’s not great. Right. We better sort that out. And you know
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
tif:
what, that’s 300, 400 quid, or whatever that’s gonna cost me to do that, which happens very rarely, but that’s worth more than, you
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
tif:
know,
Andy & Chris:
definitely.
tif:
Google
Andy & Chris:
But
tif:
pay
Andy & Chris:
that’s
tif:
per
Andy & Chris:
true patient care, isn’t it?
tif:
month. Exactly, because the patients actually realize you really care, and you do, because it’s actually good to be ashamed of what you’ve done on the screen. You know what I
Andy & Chris:
But
tif:
mean? It’s
Andy & Chris:
also
tif:
like,
Andy & Chris:
they
tif:
they
Andy & Chris:
don’t know, do
tif:
know
Andy & Chris:
they? It’s that
tif:
that.
Andy & Chris:
classic thing of they don’t know that that’s not right. So for you to then say, oh, that’s not right, it’s
tif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
like, wow. Very powerful. What was the time like here? So you went to dental elegance as an associate. You got disenfranchised with the profession, you then got your intro camera. At what point did you re-engage with the profession to the extent where you then bought in at Dental Elegance? Did that put you on the track quite quickly?
tif:
I have to say the dental aliens buying happened kind of quite late. I was having a few great years so from about 97, 98, 99, started doing loads of postgraduate education, started to convert my list to going private gradually, gradually and they started to you know go private so to speak. And then 2000s, whatever was all the kind of veneer course years and cosmetic dentistry and the BACD, all that sort of started then. I actually didn’t buy into denture elegance, I don’t think till about 2009 or something like
Andy & Chris:
Oh
tif:
that.
Andy & Chris:
well,
tif:
2009
Andy & Chris:
it’s quite a period.
tif:
or 10. And the only reason I did was because my partner was, we were looking just to sort of do the whole place up and
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
change the image and the brand and all that. and it was a good opportunity to do it. In reality, it was probably the worst time to do it because I was also just starting to do all this teaching stuff as well. So that all happened around about, the buy-in was around about 2008, 2009, I can’t remember the exact date.
Andy & Chris:
And some people may not remember there was a recession that just hit late in 2008. We had a big recession as well.
tif:
Exactly, exactly. And we literally went completely private as soon as we saw the contract in 2005 or 2006, whenever it was, because we knew what that contract was going to be.
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
tif:
We just thought, well, that’s a load of rubbish. Goodbye. And, and, and basically, you know, partly because at that point, so many of our patients were opting to have private treatment. It wasn’t, it was not really, you know, this guy wasn’t going to fall in by telling them, put
Andy & Chris:
No.
tif:
it that
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
way, because
Andy & Chris:
No.
tif:
they’ve already had several years of having the value built for them. So
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
we gradually built the value of why it’s worth spending the money on their teeth.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, so during that intervening period, you also did lots of postgraduate work, which is purely clinically focused. You’re really honing your clinical skills. Were you excited by the prospect to become your business owner and having to develop business skills and own and run a business and manage a team? Was that something you leant into?
tif:
No. Ha ha ha. because as I said, that all came along at the time when I had this other business, which was IAS, which was starting.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
And because the kind of, I mean, obviously that, the IAS started probably around at about, well, the whole beginning of it all started around 2004, 2005. And that’s where, you know, I started playing around, about four, I started playing with kind of in-man aligners and started a bit of lecturing and all that sort of stuff. So I started doing quite a lot of lecturing from about 2005, six, seven, eight, that sort of time.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
tif:
I was getting quite busy with all of that. And so therefore actually buying the practice wasn’t really very appealing. But the only reason I went with it was because my partner, who’s just been such a great guy, he knew I was busy. And he was never gonna hassle me to come in and do my fair share of the business part. He did all of it. Basically, he did everything. All I did was pay the staff and do a few bits and pieces. And I was in practice three or four days a week. And then I got on a plane and flew somewhere and gave a lecture. That’s kind of how it works. So. it wouldn’t have worked if he hadn’t been so understanding. That’s the reality.
Andy & Chris:
Right.
tif:
And
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
so yeah, that wasn’t really my objective. And it was only, I have to say, I only really started to focus on the business properly, to want to make it work properly when COVID hit. That was a bit of a wake-up call.
Andy & Chris:
Bye bye.
tif:
So as soon as COVID hit, that gave us an opportunity to sort of look and rethink about how we do things from the ground up. And actually, you know, post-COVID, we had a few amazing years really, so yeah.
Andy & Chris:
And you’re obviously one of the pioneers of the Align Bleach Bond, which is now commonplace in dentistry, but you were right at the very beginning of that. When was that and how did it come about and why was that an important thing for you to develop? Because now when we talk about it, it’s quite a well-known approach in dentistry. What dentists want to do. Yeah, but how did you kick that off as a concept?
tif:
I think because… Back in 2000, when I started doing these veneers,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
so those veneer courses that were all really popular, I kind of enjoyed doing veneers, but there was always part of me thinking, you know what, it’d be so much better with a bit of ortho, it would be so much better with this, and on top of that, patients couldn’t afford it. So I was always looking at other ways of trying to get the teeth in the right position, do a bit of bonding. I mean, I was doing aligned beach and bonding style cases back in sort of 2000, 2001, some cases a little bit earlier.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
Probably it was 2003, 2004 when I kind of tripped up over the in-matter liner, which was like a little spring appliance. I kind of contacted the person that invented it, who was a technician in the States, and I worked with him, sent quite a lot of cases to him, and I did a lot more than he thought it could do, and I kind of systemised the approach to it. And what really kind of made it obviously a very strong… idea was that many, many patients, and we’re talking hundreds who were coming to see me wanting porcelain veneers, who refused ortho, comprehensive ortho, particularly they were not going to have brackets on their teeth, they didn’t want to have 18 months, two years of treatment. All those patients would accept six weeks, 12 weeks, you know, up to 16 weeks or so of minor treatment. And as soon as I straighten their teeth and kind of whiten their teeth at the same time, all those people who at one point wanted to smile design veneers, instantly said, I don’t want that anymore. I just want edge bonding. So all
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
tif:
the people and that’s why even to today, you know, smile design is an important idea. But I have a big problem with smile design in that many people use it as a kind of that’s what you do. But the point being is that when people straighten and whiten their teeth, they’re perceptions change very, very quickly. So a lot of people who even today have porcelain veneers, composite veneers on their teeth, I know very well, quite frankly, just a few weeks of ortho and a bit of bleaching, that patient’s psychology would completely change and they would not then want the veneers done. So that was happening back in 2004, 2004.
Andy & Chris:
And is that because it means that they still look like themselves?
tif:
Yeah, good
Andy & Chris:
Is that
tif:
one.
Andy & Chris:
because it still feels like it’s a more authentic version of them?
tif:
Absolutely. I think, you know, I had people who had a very rigid idea of what they wanted, you know, talking about the buckle corridor width like this, the gum needs to look like that and all this sort of stuff. And it’s easy to straighten one, they didn’t care about that anymore. So you kind of, so it was a bit weird because it was almost counterintuitive because as a cosmetic dentist, you were kind of told, or you meant to believe that things need to look a certain way. But actually, I realised that was total rubbish. It was total
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
rubbish. And really, if the patient decides to jump off the bus slightly earlier, even if you’re not totally happy with the endocytic result, it’s a choice, you know.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
And in reality, it wasn’t just that, okay, you can save money, do a lot less damage to the teeth, but actually I found that I was able to treat a much wider demographic of patients because
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
tif:
it doesn’t cost as much because
Andy & Chris:
It’s
tif:
the
Andy & Chris:
cheaper
tif:
lab bill
Andy & Chris:
isn’t it?
tif:
is a lot cheaper
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
and the lab bill’s a lot lower and it actually takes a lot less time. So it wasn’t just the not doing veneers, it’s actually the fact that we’re able to treat probably 20 times as many people as you would with the other, just going for
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
a big veneer basis. So
Andy & Chris:
You’re,
tif:
it…
Andy & Chris:
yeah. A theme of your career is minimally invasive dentistry. Less invasive as well. Well, yeah, this kind of lifetime dentistry we’re doing on a minimal basis is something that’s kind of followed you or you followed through your career. Are we in a phase where there’s a movement towards this more longer term planning or are we kind of shying away from that and looking for quick solutions? And that’s, I guess that’s a question for the dental profession. to patients as well.
tif:
I think I’d love to think that everyone’s moving towards a more lifetime approach and I’m certainly talking about it and other people have been talking about it and I hope more people do and I think I’m hoping that I’m certainly inspiring people to show their long-term follow-ups
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
because that’s much more impressive than a before and after. But the flip side of the coin is I’m seeing a lot of stuff out there that is just short-term and
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
and I’m seeing, and it worries me that I’m seeing people making the same mistakes that I made, and I luckily managed to get out of them by knowing the patient and dealing with problems, and behaving like a pseudo specialist cosmetic dentist who only sees a patient for a procedure, and then they say goodbye to them. That’s a huge mistake. Now, just let you, I want everyone to hear that. If you think you’re gonna just treat cosmetic patients for the rest of your life, and you’re only gonna see them for cosmetic dentistry, I guarantee you, you’ll end up with more problems. dentistry or aesthetics or anything, you need to then accept you’re going to be looking after that person.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
tif:
If you want to stay out of trouble, that’s how not to get a complaint. How not to
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
get a complaint is you keep a relationship with the patient so when something goes wrong you can fix it.
Andy & Chris:
Within your practice, Tiff, did you have specialists in your practice or would you refer out for particular needs? Would you try and contain it all within the same environment?
tif:
No, we did refer out. I mean, I for a long time I was obviously we’ve been referring out for all our specialist ortho Yeah, we don’t have a specialist ortho in our practice.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
tif:
I’ve
Andy & Chris:
yeah, yeah.
tif:
been referring to lots of different people over the years and working with some really great guys who give me some and gentlemen and ladies and gentlemen, sorry, who give me some really good results over the years But what I did find was a lot of people who and it goes back to that whole point about veneers a lot of people 20 years ago who wanted veneers back in those days, the specialists only really offered them comprehensive treatment. And that’s where I think by doing this sort of limited objective treatment, which is what we were doing, just treating the anteriors in a consented way, that changed the game. And that then meant that as long as the patient understands the difference between doing it completely correctly and just doing the front teeth and leaving everything else, then it’s okay. If they don’t understand the difference between the two, then you haven’t consented them properly. And unfortunately, that still goes on today. So that’s why I teach them and help them understand how to do those diagnosis.
Andy & Chris:
Right. Yeah. And you’ve mentioned it, but obviously a significant part of your career is the IAS Academy, which you’re the chairman of now. And I was saying to what we saw, I think it’s lovely that you still have a Duke, mainly, bless his soul, as one of the directors listed on your site, which is remarkable. He’s a great guy. I mean, I only met him a few times,
tif:
Thanks
Andy & Chris:
but
tif:
for watching!
Andy & Chris:
he lit up a room, didn’t he?
tif:
Yeah, he did. And, you know, honestly, it’s not a day goes by we don’t think about him really, because
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
he really had that much effect on everything that we did. And he still does. And what’s really great is that his wife, Neera, is actually really involved in the Academy. She may not be that visible, but she’s at all of our board meeting and she inputs a lot into everything we do. So, you know, the spirit is still there. And I’ll be honest with you, I don’t think anyone has even thought about taking him off. I don’t think we’ve even had the conversation to…
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
to even change the imagery, maybe one day. But yeah, I think it’s actually his birthday, it would have been his birthday today, so even more
Andy & Chris:
Wow,
tif:
point,
Andy & Chris:
very
tif:
I think
Andy & Chris:
timely,
tif:
it will.
Andy & Chris:
very timely. So tell us about IIS then, what does IIS offer by both courses and support, what does it look like at the moment, I know it’s moved on an awful lot because you opened a fairly new training suite didn’t you in the last couple of years?
tif:
Yeah, yeah, so we’re at our kind of headquarters in
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
Surrey, just off the M25. We’ve got our own training facility, which ultimately is what we want. When you’re doing courses at the hotels and all that, you can’t control
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
the food, you can’t control this. So that gives us parking space, everything we want. So it’s an amazing place. I love giving courses there. But the whole idea, we run a wide range of things. So the sort of start point for a lot of people will be something like Align, Bleach and Bond. And that’s our most popular course is a couple of days of doing that. with me or one of our groups of trainers who can do the course just as well. And then that goes all the way through sort of higher level clear aligners. We’ve got Josh Rowley runs that and then we’ve got… Professor Ross Hobson, who then runs and leads our advanced course. So our advanced course is kind of like the top end of the tree for IIS. There’s obviously a, there’s a clear aligner component if you want to do that. There’s also fixed and more comprehensive treatment if you want to do that as well. But the idea of that is to end up if people want, you know, with a kind of diploma in primary care or so, and that’s linked with the college’s general dentistry exam now. We’re quite pleased that we’ve got that affiliation. So it’s really a pathway, but ultimately it’s kind of the whole thing is it’s open source. So I think the whole idea of this is it doesn’t really matter what system you use. We will be able to help you use that system better. So we’ll help you
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
diagnose and plan properly and then actually use that system better so you can control because I think One problem with a lot of aligner companies that are there, out there, or some of them, is that there was a kind of tendency just to teach people how to take an impression or submit a scan, and
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
then how to push the button and say, for the aligners. And the problem with that is if you haven’t done a proper assessment and diagnosis and treatment plan, if your case never goes legal, you’ve already lost your case.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
You have to… put aside what aligner system you want to use, you’ve got to actually understand what you’re looking at and then do proper auto assessment diagnosis treatment plan, explain to the patient the difference between all the various options, then you go ahead. And then obviously the next thing is mentoring. So when we teach people, our goal then is to make sure that we are checking those plans for them, checking the assessments, checking the photographs, and then also helping them to treatment plan the patients and go through.
Andy & Chris:
I like the idea that it’s system independent in that you’re providing the approach and the infrastructure and then your delegates can use whichever system they’re comfortable with.
tif:
And we’ve sort of, as time’s gone on, we’ve now developed quite a few relationships with quite a few different Alina companies and
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
we will run specific. that aligner system only course
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
for those dentists. But in reality, we are teaching fundamentally the same thing. We have got
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
that we’ll have their software up on the screen, we’ll show how to use their software, I’ll show the cases I’ve done with their system and et cetera, et cetera. But ultimately the approach to all of those is the same. I mean,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
there are some differences with aligners and without getting into that too much, but a lot of people have a quite narrow idea of what aligners should be like,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
partly because of, how the global market works but
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
the Alina mechanics are really interesting and the Alina design can make a massive difference to outcome actually. People
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
don’t really realize that yet, they will do soon.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. Given the profound… Yeah. They’ll do the same thing. Given the profound effect that intro cameras had on your career, is there a photography camera element to IIS as well?
tif:
Yeah, yeah, we absolutely. I mean, you cannot use an internal camera for your orthophotos, put it that way. You need to be using a proper digital SLR. So, you know, I’ve got two or three digital SLRs in my room and I’ll be picking that up literally every single day. So yeah, so it’s really, really important. And I think… I have to say, you know, people come and take our ortho courses or the Alarm Beach Bond as a first course. Really, the first course that you should take is actually a photography course. And I…
Andy & Chris:
Right.
tif:
I always point them towards the online one that Shiraz did for us because it’s really
Andy & Chris:
Alright,
tif:
good,
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
tif:
really simple and it just shows everyone that needs to know really. I think it’s interesting actually because so many people turn up to these courses but they just don’t know how to use cameras properly. They don’t know
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
and they still pick up these things thinking that these are okay
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
to take dental images with
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
and you know they can produce a reasonable image but… they always look a bit perplexed when you say, well, legally you shouldn’t really be keeping patients’ images on these phones anyway. And
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
then everyone looks slightly worried, don’t they?
Andy & Chris:
Mmm. Yes. Yeah.
tif:
But yeah, so I think the click-click camera is something you can’t get past. That’s something, honestly, I think that it should be, this is why I say this should be taught at dental school.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
It should be a basic, one of the 101 things that you’re taught how to do dental photography.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
And it should
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
be no option, you’re gonna do it.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, very interesting. I know there’s, and you’ll be one of them, where you’ve got literally thousands of cataloged and tagged pictures where you’re able to chart teeth over the last number of years. And it made me laugh at the weekend. I know you went to the Bruce Springsteen concert at Hyde Park. And one of the pictures you posted on Facebook was a close-up of Bruce on the big screen. And you said that tooth is still moving. So
tif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
even when you’re at a gig, you can’t get away from it, can you?
tif:
You can’t, well the reason he’s there is because he’s actually in one of my main presentations in that I showed his teeth over quite a few years and was
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
actually dying to get that shot because I was really wanting to get that shot because the latest picture I have on my presentation is about 10 years old and what’s fascinating about him and why it’s really important is his teeth were reasonably straight in his 30s and then he had his veneers done in his 40s. Okay, now the question is why did he have the veneers done? well, to make his teeth look better. But the problem is a lot of people have veneers done instead of ortho because they think they don’t want to have ortho, okay? But what they don’t understand is that if you put veneers on patients who’ve got teeth that are a little bit crooked, their teeth keep moving. And
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
those, and actually I was incorrect in what I said, that tooth is still moving, that’s actually wrong, those veneers are still moving. That’s
Andy & Chris:
Bye.
tif:
actually the truth. So. The bottom line is a lot of people think, you know, oh, you only have to consent a patient by asking, do they want to see the orthodontist or not? That’s not true. The consent comes from asking them, will you wear a retainer for the rest of your life if I do these veneers for you? Most patients, when I ask them that question, they say, why do I need to wear a retainer if I have veneers? And I say, because your teeth are going to keep moving. You know what most people say at that point? Most people say, well, in that case, I might as well just have the braces done. OK?
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
There’s an enormous, I mean, this is like a ground shaking consent issue. It is, this could be, you know, that type of horrible lawyer, I didn’t want to mention that type of lawyer. It could be their dream come true because there
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
tif:
is a lack of consent on people that are doing cosmetic dentistry on people with crooked teeth that they are not sending
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
tif:
the patients to their teeth
Andy & Chris:
That’s
tif:
are potentially still going to move.
Andy & Chris:
like keep building your, it’s like, it is isn’t it, your foundation’s a dodger in your house and you just keep building extra bits on it and then wonder why it might fall down.
tif:
Exactly.
Andy & Chris:
But this loops back to the earlier conversation about lifetime dentistry doesn’t it?
tif:
Exactly.
Andy & Chris:
In a perfect world we’ll all have our teeth in our 70s or 80s. I guess that’s only achievable if you have treatment as required perhaps in your 30s or 40s. that’s actually
tif:
else
Andy & Chris:
for
tif:
when you can
Andy & Chris:
long
tif:
do
Andy & Chris:
range,
tif:
it later.
Andy & Chris:
long distance, the years,
tif:
definitely
Andy & Chris:
not just.
tif:
do it later. I think the key thing about having a lifetime approach is that you can then step in and maintain, you can look after. So you know one of the biggest problems in orthodontics is lack of retention. Now why is that? That’s not the fault of the orthodontist, that’s because it will be impractical for orthodontists to keep seeing patients every six months or a year, but dentists are going to. So if you can look after retainers and you can maintain things, I mean I know and I can show that if I do, and this is how I learned it, you know this is why This is where the whole lifetime thing comes from. I found that the patients, when I’d see that five, 10, 15 years later, the ones that I treated with a lime bleach and bond versus the ones that I didn’t, their teeth looked so much better than the ones that you didn’t because
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
of the natural change in occlusion. teeth crowding, bites deepening, tooth wear, all that sort of stuff. I mean, some people might call that aging, but ultimately that’s actually, it can create pathological problems, it can create functional problems. And all of that is really, really preventable just by straightening the teeth a little bit, putting a bit of bonding on and wearing some retainers. And
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
tif:
that is hugely important. And I hope, you know, 10. 20, 30 years down the line, once I’ve kicked the bucket, this will be the normal thing that everybody is actually doing. I mean, what I’m doing and what I’m teaching, you know, a lot of people know it, but it should be what everyone’s thinking. And ultimately, this is true preventative dentistry. It’s preventing people
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
from needing a full math readout, preventing people from losing their teeth, preventing people from needing a ton of implants. That’s actually what we should be doing.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah. And just stepping back from dentistry, but staying in healthcare, you always have an interest in metabolic health
tif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
as well. And you talk about that and the link to oral health. And I’ve recently read Tim Spector’s book, Food for Life. Honestly, when I put it down, I think I’m more confused after reading it than I was before. I thought I understood food, but now I’ve got no clue at all. What is the link between metabolic health and oral health? Kind of beyond the obvious of sugar. Are they so closely linked?
tif:
Absolutely. I mean… I hope part of the problem is a lot, the concept of diabetes is a bit ridiculous in that the way that diabetes is measured, the parameters are set so high that you have to be quite seriously ill to actually be a diabetic, okay? There is something called pre-diabetes, which actually probably, you know, conservative estimate, probably 25, 30% of the population may already have pre-diabetes. They don’t know
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
tif:
about it, and then another 11% have diabetes. is it’s ultimately a vascular disease isn’t it okay and so who is far more likely to get periodontal disease somebody who’s going to have a form of vascular disease I think we’re going to see over the next 10-15 years actually blood sugar profiling insulin resistance profiling for implant patients really important what are people’s implants drop out Why do they drop out? Why do people get perio? It’s not, you know, a lot of this stuff comes from this exact problem. Yes, there are other factors, and there undoubtedly will be other factors, and oral hygiene’s a factor as well. But I think that the whole concept of insulin resistance, and this is all led by what we eat, because the problem is a modern diet, and even what is considered a modern healthy diet of three meals a day with some snacks in between, is quite frankly pure crap. Pardon my language. garbage and what we’re told is healthy is absolute rubbish and the reality is we’ve just been lied to for years by food at the food industry and
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
we’ve been let down massively by the medical profession who knows so little about nutrition. I’ve almost been shocked to the point of being quite angry about it. I mean
Andy & Chris:
I think
tif:
I…
Andy & Chris:
part of the problem is a lot of the research by the medical industry is funded by the food industry.
tif:
Exactly.
Andy & Chris:
I think that’s
tif:
That’s
Andy & Chris:
part
tif:
it.
Andy & Chris:
of the problem.
tif:
Exactly. There’s like 66 papers trying to link the concept of diabetes and sugar, and
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
33 papers show it’s clearly linked. The other 33 papers say that it’s not linked, and those other 33 papers are all funded by Coca-Cola, etc. So, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
wasn’t red wine good for you funded by Bordeaux people I think.
tif:
But I do think that the whole concept of nutrition and health is important. And you know, when you get to this age, and people around you, you know, what happened to Anoop and all these other
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
people, and my cousin not long ago. And you start to see people falling ill and you start to sort of wonder why. And for a long time when you’re younger, you just think, oh, it’s just inevitable, it’s inevitable, it’s fate, it’s
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
my genes, it’s my genes. Actually, I had so little idea how much of it was down to food. And the evidence is so strong. It’s like, it couldn’t be stronger, quite frankly. There’s so much evidence of how what we eat causes this metabolic disease. and that is undoubtedly going to have an effect on our teeth, no doubt.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
You know, it’s, and the strength of our, you know, the soft tissues and the bones and our ability to actually heal as well. So I think this is a, going to be a big thing over the next five, 10, 15 years. And I think, I do think a lot of, quite a few dentists are starting to sort of become more aware of this whole kind of what to eat thing there. And they’re actually doing the kind of N equals what, N equals one test by actually doing it on themselves. And a lot of people.
Andy & Chris:
Right, yeah.
tif:
intermittent fasting and eating better all of a sudden because of exactly like people like Tim Spector and there’s all these other people who are talking you know and showing the science and when I think the advantage we’ve got as scientists is it we are able to actually understand it and a lot of people
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
may not understand it quite so well and it took a few it took me watching a few lectures I’m not necessarily podcast I mean I don’t mind your podcast but a few scientific lectures that were recorded where my jaw literally hit the floor. And I was actually quite emotional watching that, thinking,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
you know, what have I just been doing for the last 15, 10, 15 years? Now I know why these people have died.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
And you know, the crazy thing is the doctors didn’t.
Andy & Chris:
Damn.
tif:
The doctors didn’t. All they were doing was giving them drugs. You know, all they’ve been doing is prescribing. And that’s part of the problem with medicine. It’s a prescription industry rather than a
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
medicine industry. I think in dentistry, we’ve got the ability to do way more preventative. treatment because we’re not so dominated by pharma.
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
tif:
We’ve got the ability to communicate more with patients. We generally should have more time. And I think we’ve also got the ability to photograph more of what we do so we can see what we’re stopping in the future. With doctors, it’s much harder for them.
Andy & Chris:
And like you say, because it’s a science-based profession, you have the credibility and the authority to have those conversations and give advice.
tif:
Definitely. I’m having that conversation literally three times a day, four times a day with patients. It’s coming up. You know, what are you eating? What’s your diet like? Blah, blah, blah. And I know it might seem a bit intrusive, but that’s exactly what I’m going to say now. If I see
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
a patient and I kind of suspect that might be an issue, we’re talking about it. And actually, I think a lot of patients actually find it quite interesting. You know, they’re looking at me saying, oh, actually, you’ve lost weight. I can see you. And I tell
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
them what I’ve been doing over the last, you know, eight, seven or eight months. And…
Andy & Chris:
But also with just a bit of information and education, it’s something that’s actually very easy to apply to your daily life. Yeah, sure.
tif:
Yeah, definitely.
Andy & Chris:
Interesting.
tif:
I think the whole concept of diet and food is a very emotional issue and
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
it’s hard because people have tried all this and tried all that. I think you only really will get it when you see the science of it.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
And it’s not a fad. What I’m doing is not a diet, it’s a lifestyle change based on scientific decisions that I
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
know are going to benefit me. and reduce my risk of whatever. My only worry is that I’ve picked up this whole stuff 10-15
Andy & Chris:
too late.
tif:
years too late. Yeah, that’s my only worry. But we’ll
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
see.
Andy & Chris:
Fascinating topic, Tiff. Fascinating. We always finish up the same way and we ask our guests the same two questions. And the first one that we have for you is if you could be the fly on a wall in a certain situation with somebody, when would that be and who would be there?
tif:
Well, I’ve got kind of, I know there’s two answers to this, I know you asked me for one, but I’ve got an angry answer and a kind of happier answer, okay? Let’s
Andy & Chris:
Okay, but do both. Give us both, give us both.
tif:
give you, while I’m ranting, I’m sort of still in ranting mode, while I’m ranting,
Andy & Chris:
Hahahaha
tif:
my ranting mode, I’d say whoever was having the conversation about the contract decision process in 2006 for UDAs, I wouldn’t be a fly on the wall, I’d be a sniper on the wall. I’d be on the wall waiting to jump on them because I just think that’s just it was so scandalous. And I think
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
tif:
it was just so ridiculous. It’s amazing that happened in the way it did. And quite frankly, you know, I was already kind of on my way out of NHS dentistry. But in reality, people sometimes ask me if the system was fair, and actually funded the wrong word, because people always say underfunding, it’s not actually underfunding, it’s actually the way the treatment is. the way dentistry is, the perception is valued. We just need it. We quite simply just need a core service and we need people to actually explain the value of dentistry as it costs.
Andy & Chris:
Mm,
tif:
That’s
Andy & Chris:
that’s
tif:
what
Andy & Chris:
right.
tif:
you need. You don’t need to spend any more on it. But if it was the right system, I’d go back in a heartbeat. Because I actually
Andy & Chris:
Right,
tif:
believe
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
tif:
it. Yeah, so I don’t, you know, yes, I’m happy as a private dentist, but I just think that ultimately the system should be correct that people like me shouldn’t want to leave it. So that’s one scenario.
Andy & Chris:
So that’s angry tiff. Let’s have happy tiff.
tif:
That’s an angry Tiff. Yeah. So the situation where, flying the wall, where to watch something, do you know what? It’s going to come back to food. And because I love food so much now, and I love the taste of food, I always had this really stupid, my wife, she gets really annoyed. Because I always sort of say, wouldn’t it been amazing to be the first person to have ever eaten a steak cooked in butter? Do you know what I mean? So
Andy & Chris:
Oh.
tif:
I think the first person to have worked out how to cook a steak really well with butter on it and then try it and eat
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
it. For me, I know it sounds ridiculous because there’s nothing historical about that in any way or form, but for me I think actually those sorts of historical moments where man did something that made man’s life so much better,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
tif:
that’s what I would like to have been at that point.
Andy & Chris:
It’s interesting. I was listening to something this morning and a guy was saying, he was asking the person interviewing, he said, when did you last do something new? And the person stopped and thought, he said, I don’t know. He said, I genuinely cannot think of the last time I had a truly new experience or I tried something I’d never tried before. And here you say that about the steak. There was at some point somebody said, let’s try that and see how that works.
tif:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
And now we’ve got thousands of amazing steak restaurants all over the world turning out their variations, but somebody had to start with it.
tif:
Somebody had to start and it’s probably a lot longer than we perhaps we even imagined. But I think it I think those first moments where we where we’ve discovered stuff that changed everything for the better. I think that’s what human existence built reality. And
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
we should say they should celebrate those moments more because
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
tif:
that they make all the difference.
Andy & Chris:
And our follow-up question is if you could meet somebody who would you like to sit down and have a pint of beer with?
tif:
Oh, well, I think we might have already mentioned the name already, but it’s probably got to be Bruce Springsteen, hasn’t it now? I think I
Andy & Chris:
Uh…
tif:
know we talked a little bit earlier, but probably because I’ve always been a big fan. You
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
know what, politically we might not be that aligned.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
But I just, you know, it’s probably for the music. It’s kind of music, culture and history. Somebody like that. And there could be a whole variety of people
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
in that sort of. echelon of people that I’d probably like to meet. I think at the moment, because I saw him in concert last week, he’s
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
tif:
probably pretty high up the list, I would have thought.
Andy & Chris:
Wonderful. Interesting. Wonderful. I don’t think we’ve had Bruce before. No,
tif:
I’m going
Andy & Chris:
not
tif:
to go.
Andy & Chris:
at all. No, we’ve had a number of people, we’re not a Bruce. Not a Bruce, no. Tiff, that was wonderful. That was
tif:
Thank
Andy & Chris:
really,
tif:
you.
Andy & Chris:
really enjoyable. Thank you very much. Like I say, I think the… Good insight. Yeah, I think the approach you take, the fact you’ve really kind of dug into your core principles of just stuck with you through your career and you’re passionate about… teaching other people through the IAS and making sure that the younger generation understand like long-term dentistry. I think it’s a really important valuable part of the profession. So yeah, it’s a great story to tell. Really appreciate it. Yeah,
tif:
Thanks
Andy & Chris:
thank
tif:
very
Andy & Chris:
you.
tif:
much. Thank you.
Andy & Chris:
Not at all. Lovely. Look after yourself too if we speak soon. Cheers, thanks man.
tif:
Take care, stay strong, bye bye.
