Transcript – Dentology Podcast Recording with Victoria Sampson
Episode Release Date – Monday 6 November 2023
Andy & Chris:
So Squire, here we are again. We have another. Another, another one. And a beautiful day. Those people you can’t see in our studio. We are looking out on beautiful blue skies. But another fabulous podcast. Absolutely. We’re so looking forward to it. So looking forward to it. So ladies and gentlemen, today we are joined by Victoria Sampson. Victoria’s a dentist, co-principal of the Health Society in Mayfair. Very nice part of the world. Sounds very nice. Oral microbiome specialist and DJ. So we’ve got a lot of stuff to get through. Welcome Victoria, how are you?
Victoria Sampson:
I’m good. I’m good. Thank you for having me today.
Andy & Chris:
No, not
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
at
Victoria Sampson:
I’m excited.
Andy & Chris:
all. Our pleasure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we are as well. We are as well. There’s a lot going on in your world and given that you’ve fairly recently opened your practice, it’d be nice to find out how that’s going and all the turl and toil and all that went into getting that practice set up. The trepidation and excitement.
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah, it’s been a couple of months since we opened, so it’s completely opened my eyes and changed my life really. But yeah, it’s interesting.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, we last met at the Global Dental Collective,
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
the event that Mehdi and Joe put together, which was a great night. And yeah, you were on the decks, you were DJing later on in the evening, after being one of the guests talking about your dental experience on the night and sharing with the audience. But you were then on the decks. And you’ve said that if it wasn’t dentistry, you would have been a DJ. Is
Victoria Sampson:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
that serious? Is that a real passion and a love for you?
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah, it really is. I think if my life turned out a bit different, that would definitely be something I would want to do. And even now, even though I am a dentist and all of this, I’m always like, I could still elope
Andy & Chris:
Did
Victoria Sampson:
and live in Ibiza
Andy & Chris:
you?
Victoria Sampson:
and be
Andy & Chris:
Have
Victoria Sampson:
a DJ.
Andy & Chris:
you done? Have you done any club DJ? Like was it
Victoria Sampson:
I
Andy & Chris:
gin?
Victoria Sampson:
have.
Andy & Chris:
Cause gin was Ministry of Sound, wasn’t it?
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah, I mean, I haven’t done ministry, but I’ve done a few clubs. But I’m
Andy & Chris:
Ah,
Victoria Sampson:
fairly
Andy & Chris:
cool.
Victoria Sampson:
early on, like with DJing, I only learned a couple of years ago. I’ve always been
Andy & Chris:
Eh.
Victoria Sampson:
very musically kind of minded. You know, whenever I was going to a party or, you know, someone was having an event, they would always be like, oh, Victoria, can you make the playlist? Oh, Victoria, can you take over and play the music? And this is since I was, you know, 16 and 17. I was every
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Victoria Sampson:
single party. It was me playing the music. And then a couple of years ago, when my really good friends was getting married, and she was like, my wedding gift from you is for you to DJ at my wedding. And I was like, I’ve never DJed in my life. I don’t know how to do it. She was like, you’re made for DJing. Like, you have to do it. So I learned to DJ for her wedding. And my first ever event was a wedding in front of about 400 people where I DJed.
Andy & Chris:
How cool. Excellent.
Victoria Sampson:
And that kind of changed everything. And I started to actually. DJ and,
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Victoria Sampson:
you know, and here we are now.
Andy & Chris:
If she hadn’t forced your hand, for want of a better phrase, of words in saying, this is your gift to me, which kind of puts the pressure on you, that you kind of got to do it, do you think you’d have ever got to a stage where you would have done it? Or would you have always been somebody who in your kitchen or your bedroom would have been the person to DJ into yourself?
Victoria Sampson:
I think I probably would have stayed in my bedroom playing the music. Cause it does take,
Andy & Chris:
Oh good
Victoria Sampson:
it’s
Andy & Chris:
for your
Victoria Sampson:
not.
Andy & Chris:
friend then, she
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
really brought something out of you.
Victoria Sampson:
At the end, I was like, thank you for pushing me
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Victoria Sampson:
to do this because I love it. And, you know, I’m actually not that bad at it either because I love music so much.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Victoria Sampson:
And, um, you know,
Andy & Chris:
It is
Victoria Sampson:
it’s,
Andy & Chris:
a skill. Mmm. It is
Victoria Sampson:
it’s
Andy & Chris:
a
Victoria Sampson:
actually
Andy & Chris:
skill
Victoria Sampson:
really
Andy & Chris:
there,
Victoria Sampson:
difficult.
Andy & Chris:
you
Victoria Sampson:
And
Andy & Chris:
know, you can
Victoria Sampson:
I think
Andy & Chris:
go
Victoria Sampson:
I
Andy & Chris:
to
Victoria Sampson:
was.
Andy & Chris:
Not love into clubs, but you can go places can’t you where they sort of the music just totally misses it And then you know people were there and then they’re off. So I think it is a skill It’s sort of an underrated skill
Victoria Sampson:
massively like if I go to a club and the music’s bad or the DJ is terrible I’m out like I can’t I
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
can’t do it
Andy & Chris:
It was like an earworm just there and it annoys you. So, so, so Dendrocy was lucky because you, you nearly had a fork in the road and you decided to go down the dental route and not the DJ route and your, your sister who you’re in business with now. Can I just ask a quick question? Did you have like a DJ name all lined up?
Victoria Sampson:
I actually, I still don’t really have a DJ name. I’ve, lots of people have
Andy & Chris:
Vicky
Victoria Sampson:
made
Andy & Chris:
S. Ah,
Victoria Sampson:
names for me and
Andy & Chris:
okay.
Victoria Sampson:
some people are trying to make like a dental name. So, you know, I’ve had, you know, but I think Dr. Victoria was the one that kind of worked the best apparently. And I don’t like it. So I don’t really have a name. Cause I just, I don’t know yet.
Andy & Chris:
It’ll come. So I’ve a sense over time. That probably doesn’t
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
quite work. No,
Victoria Sampson:
Ha!
Andy & Chris:
that’s not really a good DJ. Sal Samson. Thank you. Anyway,
Victoria Sampson:
South
Andy & Chris:
sorry
Victoria Sampson:
Samsung.
Andy & Chris:
I interrupted. I was just intrigued. So dentistry, was that, because obviously your sister is, she’s slightly older than you, isn’t she, your sister. So did she kind of turn your head towards dentistry? Was it something that you were always destined to be a dentist? Is there family connections?
Victoria Sampson:
She would definitely like to say that she influenced me. We don’t actually have
Andy & Chris:
I
Victoria Sampson:
any
Andy & Chris:
heard
Victoria Sampson:
other
Andy & Chris:
the words
Victoria Sampson:
family.
Andy & Chris:
like to say. Yeah, she would. A bit of sibling
Victoria Sampson:
No.
Andy & Chris:
roar again on that.
Victoria Sampson:
So we don’t actually have any other family who are dentists. We have greater family, but my mom and dad were both in finance. Everyone else has kind of been maybe doctors or lawyers or finance or that type of thing. And then my sister became a dentist. And when I was choosing what to study, I actually wanted to go into law. Um, and then I was like, actually I’m, you know, my A levels and GCSEs. I was really good at science and, um, so I was like, okay, let me do something scientific, um, but I’m also really good with people. And I was like, I don’t really want to be in a lab behind a microscope and not interacting, um, and medicine I wasn’t too keen on just because of, I think. the lifestyle that doctors have. You have to be extremely passionate about medicine for it
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
to be your job. So I was like, not really sure. And I saw her going through and I was like, ah, it looks kind of cool. Like you get to meet people, you are very creative. There’s a lot of artistry involved and it’s also, there’s an element of business to it if you want it to be a business. And so for me,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Victoria Sampson:
I was like, okay, it kind of combines everything I like. And here I am now.
Andy & Chris:
What age were you, Victoria, when you were going through this sort of thought process? Was this kind of when you were choosing to do… did you do your education in England? I’d say because your accent is an interesting one.
Victoria Sampson:
Bye. Uh, yeah, no, I did. I only lived in America for about two years when I was about eight years old. Um, and then
Andy & Chris:
Okay,
Victoria Sampson:
my, uh,
Andy & Chris:
wow,
Victoria Sampson:
my
Andy & Chris:
you’ve
Victoria Sampson:
accent
Andy & Chris:
retained
Victoria Sampson:
just
Andy & Chris:
quite
Victoria Sampson:
stayed
Andy & Chris:
a strong
Victoria Sampson:
on like
Andy & Chris:
element
Victoria Sampson:
this.
Andy & Chris:
of their accent,
Victoria Sampson:
And,
Andy & Chris:
haven’t
Victoria Sampson:
um,
Andy & Chris:
you?
Victoria Sampson:
I’ve now got this weird amalgamation of American English.
Andy & Chris:
Go with charming over weird. I think charming is better than weird. Intriguing.
Victoria Sampson:
Yes.
Andy & Chris:
So you were around kind of A level age where you were having to go through this thought process and piece it together.
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah, exactly. So I literally only decided when I was 18, it wasn’t one of my passions. When
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
I was a child growing up to be a dentist or anything like that, it was kind of like, ah, it will work and worse comes to worse and I don’t like dentistry. Then I can go into business or
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
I can go into law. And my mother was a really big, um, kind of impact in my decision making. And she was like, you know, if you, um, you know, you, you can study dentistry and still do lots of other things afterwards, but you can’t study. business or you know English or anything
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
like that and then become a dentist. And so I was like okay let’s see how this works.
Andy & Chris:
It’s just, I find it intriguing that people, you know, in your case, you were kind of 17, 18 and going through this thought process and it seems to be a common thing with lots of dentists. They’re very clear about what they want to do from quite a young age. I think lots of people don’t kind of work it out. We have some people who qualify in dentistry slightly older, but… the majority tend to kind of do traditional schooling, A-levels and then go on to university. There might be a year or two in between, but that’s pretty much the path. I find it intriguing that dentists seem to be very clear from a young age, the direction that they want to go in and you talking about, you know, the artistry, the communication skills, I was good at science. You really piece together all those critical elements that makes a good dentist so young. There’s always a bit of creativity that seems to be in the dentists that we speak to, whatever it might be, music, models, whatever, there’s always. That sort of creative bit is quite interesting. With the DJ side, isn’t it? Yeah, sort of. That’s a real strong part of your skillset.
Victoria Sampson:
It’s a transferable skill. Ha ha ha. Ha ha.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah. So you were saying you spent a couple of years in the States. What was your upbringing like? How did your parents kind of, you know, mold you and your sister to be the people you are today?
Victoria Sampson:
Um, I think my, my parents were, they’re pretty, um, they, they made us work hard. You know, like we, I’m, I’m from a Middle Eastern background. My mother’s Iranian. Um, you know, it wasn’t enough to just get like a, a B in your exams.
Andy & Chris:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Victoria Sampson:
You know, she wanted A, A star and it was always like that. And, you know, maybe I complained when I was younger, but then, you know, at the end of the day, it meant that I did do pretty well in my exams and she definitely. made me a very hardworking person. So I think, yeah, I also was a bit of a, I had a lot way too much energy as a child. Like I think my parents didn’t know what to do with me half the time. So they just put me in like a thousand different classes and courses and you know, like I couldn’t sit still for an hour. So I was just always running around. I was in every sports team. I was, you know what I mean? I was like that annoying
Andy & Chris:
I
Victoria Sampson:
kid
Andy & Chris:
will.
Victoria Sampson:
who didn’t really have much of a social life because she was just like playing tennis or going to some sort of language class or this and that. And it was because I actually wanted to do it. My mom kind of, she was
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
like, let’s make you do everything and then you can decide what you like and drop down a
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
few classes and just focus on those. And I was like, no, I want to do ballet and football. I wanted to like.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
you know, I want to paint and I want to play Dennis. And so I think I was very lucky that I was able to do all of those things and kind of learn a lot from a young age.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm. It’s interesting. There’s also then a combination. Yet again, a lot of dentists, well, successful guys we speak to, there’s that sport thing, isn’t there? And it’s interesting in the fact of your sports by the sounds of things where individual, but also team. So you’ve sort of got your own resilience of being an individual, but also you need to know how to fit into a team, which is a dental practice.
Victoria Sampson:
I agree with you. I think that sports, from everyone I know who is successful, even not in dentistry,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Victoria Sampson:
kind of physical activity and sports is a very kind of strong thing that all of them have. And I think part
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
of it’s to do with the mental resilience and being able to actually push through. And for me, even now, okay, I’m not doing ballet and tennis classes and all these things, but… If I’m stressed out, my number one go-to is exercising and going for a run. So now I run all the time. Um, I do boxing, all of these types of things. And it’s, it’s not from a physical perspective. I’m not sitting here thinking, oh, I want to lose weight or I want a six pack or anything like that. It’s genuinely just because if I exercise, I have better clarity of mind.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
I relax, I de-stress. And I think that once you start to see exercise as kind of a tool for your mental health, things completely change. And so
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
yeah.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, no, I agree. I think exercise is wonderful and depending on what you’re doing, it requires your self-focus. Remember years ago, somebody said to me, skip. If you try skipping, you can think of nothing else other than just making sure you’re skipping. But it said from a clear in your mind, it’s fabulous because you do. You have to concentrate so hard to skip well, there isn’t space
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
for other thoughts to creep in. So they say it’s almost like a form of meditation because it excludes all other thoughts. If you get it wrong, you’re over. Yeah, exactly. While you’re doing it. We’ve kind of teed. You were teased around art and artistry for a while and clearly artistry is becoming a bigger part of dentistry than it ever has been with the aesthetics and the cosmetic side of things. So would you say that having that in your kit bag of some sort and having an interest in art aids you as a dentist? Does it mean that you have a better understanding of what those aesthetic outcomes could be?
Victoria Sampson:
I definitely think so. I think that, you know, there’s so many different dentists out there and you have some who are purely cosmetic or aesthetic dentists and they’re only doing, you know, small makeovers and
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
maybe they’re a little bit more aesthetically trained than others. But I think every dentist has to have some sort of, I think every dentist has a bit of ADHD or it’s not sorry, not ADHD, but more of like an obsessive.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Victoria Sampson:
They’re
Andy & Chris:
OCD.
Victoria Sampson:
perfectionists, yeah OCD, sorry OCD, wrong acronym. They’re obsessive and perfectionists about something.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Victoria Sampson:
And also they do have to have some elements of creativity and it doesn’t have to mean that they are amazing at painting a picture, but it’s about, you know, even doing the most standard filling
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Victoria Sampson:
on a molar that no one’s ever going to see, but understanding kind of the anatomy of the teeth of. You know,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
all of those types of things. And I think good dentists definitely are slightly creative as well.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah. It’s like Shiraz, isn’t it? What’s that course that he does? Oh sculpt is called his composite course I always think that’s fascinating in the fact of you know, there’s a non collision. Just think that’s a sort of like Composite in it really but he teaches people how to put their own not by personality as such But you know how to make it and that’s the artistry part isn’t it? Which is which is fascinating because I saw something else online. I think I was it manrina and she’d done She died. I don’t know if she’s about 13,000 veneers is individual, you know, and if they’re not individual, we as humans can go, ooh, that doesn’t look quite right because it’s almost too perfect. Yeah. It’s funny. Oh yeah, we create in human form, yeah. Fascinating.
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
it is and everything about our smiles are specific to us. And, you know, so, you know, some people have more rectangular teeth and that’s meant to be a little bit more masculine, curved edges are meant to be a bit more feminine, like all of these things. I think people sometimes forget about but they’re so important and you
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Victoria Sampson:
cannot just copy and paste the same smile for every single person and
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
even myself clinic clinically. I have definitely a way of doing things and my feelings when I see my feelings in someone’s mouth I know they’re mine because of the way that I’ve done them and I’m like, ah, that’s me.
Andy & Chris:
Oh really?
Victoria Sampson:
The other one, that’s not me Yeah, I can even or You know, you sometimes see another dentist work and you’re like, wow, this dentist is fantastic or the other ones like not so great But a lot of it’s to do with aesthetics again
Andy & Chris:
And do you, as your skill has developed, and I don’t know, I’m assuming there’s patients that you’ve seen, do you sometimes look back on the sort of like, you know, version one of Victoria filling and think, ooh, nowadays, I wouldn’t have been very happy with that because you’ve evolved as your skill and technique.
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah, definitely, 100%. And I think that one of the problems with social media is that people compare themselves to, you know, some of the best dentists out there, and they’re like, why is my, you know, composite bonding not exactly like X, Y, Z? Or, you know, and
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
we’re always evolving, we’re always improving and changing. And I think another kind of key characteristic of a good dentist is someone who is open to change and to
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Victoria Sampson:
evolving. So, you know, I’m constantly doing courses. I’m constantly trying out new products and seeing which one works best with my patient. Kind of doing my own little clinical trials on my patients to see what works best and what doesn’t because
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
what you learn at university is not always, it’s not going to be exactly the same
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
10 years later.
Andy & Chris:
I was going to ask you, sorry, I’m just going to say I’m fascinated. You know you mentioned that thing about masking in teeth are a bit square or something and feminine. Is that taught at dental school or is that something you learn post dental school because it’s not a functional thing?
Victoria Sampson:
So I learned that post, I learned that post. I think
Andy & Chris:
Right.
Victoria Sampson:
that dental school, I mean, trained me fantastically, you know, loved my university, but it trained me to be a good bread and butter dentist and
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Victoria Sampson:
to be able to drill and fill and do some crowns. But it definitely did not train me aesthetically to do composite bonding,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
to do smile designing, any of those types of things. And those are courses that I went on afterwards to learn those things.
Andy & Chris:
Which school did you go to?
Victoria Sampson:
I went to Barts, Bartsland.
Andy & Chris:
Excellent. And what was your dental sword experience like? Was it good?
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah, I mean, yes and no.
Andy & Chris:
Hahahaha
Victoria Sampson:
Maybe I shouldn’t have named my university. No, no,
Andy & Chris:
We might need
Victoria Sampson:
I
Andy & Chris:
to
Victoria Sampson:
loved
Andy & Chris:
unpack.
Victoria Sampson:
my university.
Andy & Chris:
Unpack the mmm.
Victoria Sampson:
No, I loved my university. I loved my professors and my teachers and it’s a very small university. So it’s a very small class. There’s about, I think there were about 60 to a hundred people in my, in my year. And the advantage of that is that it becomes a really tight-knit family and you know everyone very well. But I think the disadvantage is that sometimes if you, you know, it’s such a small group that, you know, if you don’t find exactly your friends from day one, it’s difficult to maybe find them later
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
on. And it’s not like some universities like King’s, for example, in this 300, 350
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
people per year. So, you know, okay, you don’t make friends first day around. You’re like, I’ll try again next week. I’ll try again the week after. And I loved everyone in my class, but we’re all a little bit different. And so I had a good and bad relationship with my university. I wasn’t very passionate about dentistry. I went through a few phases of wanting to leave.
Andy & Chris:
Oh, wow.
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah, in my third year, I was very close to leaving and I actually went and did work experience at a law firm during my summer, because I was like, I’m out, I’m gonna finish early. Um, and then just go
Andy & Chris:
flip.
Victoria Sampson:
and do a law conversion. Um,
Andy & Chris:
What
Victoria Sampson:
and
Andy & Chris:
dragged
Victoria Sampson:
thankfully
Andy & Chris:
you back?
Victoria Sampson:
I didn’t. Uh, my Erasmus actually. So I got into, um, an Erasmus in Stockholm. So I went
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
to Karolinska Institute for
Andy & Chris:
Ah, yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
a couple of months. And that’s where my idea of dentistry completely changed. And before that, you know, I was like, okay, fine, drill and fill. Like, okay, this is pretty boring. Like it is what it is. And then I went to Karolinska and they are very renowned in the world and it’s the best dental school in the world and they’re doing crazy research on diabetes and gum disease. They were doing cardiovascular disease and gum disease and they were the ones who really opened my eyes to the fact that the mouth is connected to the rest of the body and
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
that we
Andy & Chris:
Well.
Victoria Sampson:
can actually, when we’re doing a lot of our treatments, we’re actually helping a person’s general health as well.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
And that’s where I guess my journey into where I am now really started.
Andy & Chris:
Wow. It’s interesting because you suddenly, you obviously then almost like an epiphany went from, this is going to sound rude to anyone listening, but it’s not meant to be, from being a dentist appreciating that you were a healthcare profession for the whole of the body. And that was the, that was the changing moment for you. Fascinating really. Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah, and also realizing that, you know, every dentist has a different, different set of kind of skills,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
and not every dentist can be exactly the same. Like I always think like under dentists, it takes a special type of person to be doing root canals
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
all day, a special type of person to do, you know, gum treatment all day. So and every personality has a different maybe specialty that works for them. And, you know, for me, I realized that I’m not I’m not going to be very good at just doing. fillings all day, I would
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm.
Victoria Sampson:
get bored. And some people love that and they’re great at it. But for me, I was like, I want to do something where I’m working with other people, collaborating, understanding the connection between the mouth and the rest of the body and
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
doing research. And so, I think you can really make dentistry whatever you want it to be.
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Victoria Sampson:
And I think that there’s a really bad… kind of assumption that when you’re a dentist, everyone’s the same and we’re all doing the
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Victoria Sampson:
same thing
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Victoria Sampson:
because
Andy & Chris:
yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
we’re not.
Andy & Chris:
So based on what you described, you graduated in 2018, you then did your FD year, but you then quickly opted out from the NHS and went private. And was that kind of driven by your desire to be doing this sort of work that wouldn’t have been available to you if you were treating patients on the NHS? Was that kind of, is it? I want your interest because obviously, you know, there’s, at the moment, there’s quite a lot of chat about people leaving the NHS, not wanting to work on the NHS, but it sounds like your reason for it your desire to do slightly different clinical work.
Victoria Sampson:
I think that was one of the driving factors for sure. And then I also found myself after my FD, I was very lucky to be hired part-time at a private dental practice. And it opened my eyes to a whole other way of doing dentistry. And then I was working half NHS, half privately and the way that we were doing treatments and the way we were looking at patients, was very different and I found it really difficult to work NHS one day and then fully private the next
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
day. And in terms of time, in terms of the quality of the work, everything, both of them have big stresses and, you know, neither is, one is not easier than the other at all. But it’s more about, in my head I wasn’t able to just flip-flop and say, okay cool, I’m going to do a filling in 10 minutes on one day. and then filling under rubber dam and all of this for an hour
Andy & Chris:
Hm.
Victoria Sampson:
the next day.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
I couldn’t. And so what was happening was I was starting to feel that I was bringing my, my kind of NHS way of doing things
Andy & Chris:
Hmm
Victoria Sampson:
to the private world and my private expectations to the NHS world. And
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, that’s true.
Victoria Sampson:
I just couldn’t do it. So I had to choose one. And for those who can do it amazing go you, but I couldn’t. and
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Victoria Sampson:
it was impacting my mental health because I was not sleeping at night because I was like, my feelings aren’t good enough or
Andy & Chris:
No,
Victoria Sampson:
I’m not doing this well.
Andy & Chris:
I won’t. Oh really, what, it was creating personal stress for you?
Victoria Sampson:
massively because
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Victoria Sampson:
I wasn’t good enough for the private world,
Andy & Chris:
Hmm, well.
Victoria Sampson:
but I was also a bit too much of a diva, maybe from my NHS practices.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
I’ll be like, I need this burr, where’s my polishing stuff?
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
I wanna do this. And it was really difficult to
Andy & Chris:
But this
Victoria Sampson:
flip
Andy & Chris:
is all
Victoria Sampson:
between
Andy & Chris:
quite
Victoria Sampson:
the two.
Andy & Chris:
early on in your career as well, isn’t it? And the core of this is caring, isn’t it? The fact of you’re caring about what you’re delivering. Wanting to do the best job possible. How did you work through that? Was there help for you? Were you able to talk to people about it? Screamed a lot and played
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
music.
Victoria Sampson:
I did. So COVID also happened at the same time.
Andy & Chris:
Hey!
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah, so this was in what, 2020.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
And my mentor at my private practice was kind of pushing me to, you know, go on courses and to improve
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
my quality of work and all of that. And And then my NHS principal was telling me to, I wasn’t working fast enough and I needed to see 10 more patients extra a day. So 40 patients a day. And I was like, and then COVID happened and everything stopped. And I was able to just sit there and think a little bit and kind of understand my finances. And that’s
Andy & Chris:
It’s
Victoria Sampson:
where
Andy & Chris:
interesting.
Victoria Sampson:
I made the jump because
Andy & Chris:
Big reset
Victoria Sampson:
of really
Andy & Chris:
button.
Victoria Sampson:
COVID. Yeah, basically.
Andy & Chris:
Wow, wow. So in a really weird way, it came at a great time for you because you could have either imploded or gone one way or the other. Or become a lawyer. Yeah, or not necessarily be the path that you want. I mean, because you’re obviously well known and hugely into the oral microbiome and will come on to sort of salivary diagnostics, which is a phrase that you found out about three days ago.
Victoria Sampson:
I’m going to
Andy & Chris:
It’s
Victoria Sampson:
go
Andy & Chris:
not
Victoria Sampson:
to bed.
Andy & Chris:
one you’d ever thought you’d probably use. Which is fascinating. But did that… Was the trigger in your mind start to make you think that this might be an area of interest when you went to Stockholm? Was it triggered there or was it in a different time?
Victoria Sampson:
Different time actually. So when I was in Stockholm, it just made me realize that the mouth was not a separate entity
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Victoria Sampson:
and that there was a lot of research going on and there was a very different side of dentistry, but that was kind of it at that time. And then actually once again, COVID came to help me out. And when I wasn’t working, those three, four months where we weren’t working, I just got really bored because as I told you earlier, you can’t leave me alone for an hour without me
Andy & Chris:
Hahaha
Victoria Sampson:
doing something. And I decided to write a paper. And my paper was basically hypothesizing that having poor oral health would predispose you to worse COVID complications. And so I wrote a very big, long paper on it. whilst everyone else was making like banana bread. And
Andy & Chris:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Victoria Sampson:
I was like, yeah. And I was like, this is huge.
Andy & Chris:
Ha ha.
Victoria Sampson:
And my thing was kind of, I thought we, as dentists, we didn’t know how COVID was going to impact us and whether or not certain things were going to change. And so I wanted to
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Victoria Sampson:
write a paper on that and all the risk factors that were associated with COVID, with worse COVID complications, were also similar risk factors to periodontal disease. So
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Victoria Sampson:
I wrote that paper, got published by the BDJ, and it was the first in the world to
Andy & Chris:
about
Victoria Sampson:
connect
Andy & Chris:
24
Victoria Sampson:
the mouth to the…
Andy & Chris:
or something. He must have been quite young then, wasn’t he?
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah,
Andy & Chris:
You’re young
Victoria Sampson:
I was…
Andy & Chris:
now, but I mean that’s like a bit of a ballsy move isn’t it really so hey You know I haven’t done this much, but I’m gonna write a paper It’s the old adage
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
if you if you’re good enough you’re old enough. Yeah, that’s true isn’t it? I love the fact that we have a system that enables somebody your age to write a paper gets published in the BDJ It gets the deserve plaudits. It should you haven’t got to be a 50 year old professor before you’re down to joining That’s true that crew
Victoria Sampson:
It’s very true, yeah. I mean, there was definitely a really good kind of opportunity for me there.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
And the BDJ even, they were a bit like, should we publish this? Because this is the first paper of its kind in the world and are we right to be doing this? And they took a risk on me and they published it and it blew up. It did really, really well because everyone was like, ah, you know, it kind of gave dentists, I think a little bit more. justification for the treatments that they were doing on their patients. And it told patients that their gum health was very important.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Victoria Sampson:
And if they wanted to actually reduce their risk of COVID complications, they need to think about their mouth as well. And that’s where my cobiome testing started for me. So after that, I got approached by a couple of universities and they wanted to do research on my hypothesis and the only way that we could actually look at COVID patients. in ICU was through their saliva because we weren’t able to go into
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
the ICU to look in their mouths and do a checkup. So we collected their saliva and we did tests, you know, microbiome testing. We did a lot of different things to see whether or not their microbiome was imbalanced and if that was what was increasing their risk of COVID complications. And fast forward six months or so, I then was like, wait, why aren’t we doing microbiome testing on our own patients? Why are we, you know?
Andy & Chris:
Only doing
Victoria Sampson:
why
Andy & Chris:
the
Victoria Sampson:
is
Andy & Chris:
peeping
Victoria Sampson:
this
Andy & Chris:
and
Victoria Sampson:
only
Andy & Chris:
I see you.
Victoria Sampson:
exactly I was like this is awesome because for once we’re able to quantify disease and a lot of dentistry is very qualitative and we sit there and we kind of just say lots of names and words but we don’t often have numbers that we can give patients and say you have you know 25 percent of this or seven you know we don’t do that very much.
Andy & Chris:
Mm-hmm. Is this you have this phrase about putting the mouth back in the body We were we were fortunate to meet with Miguel Stanley early on this year And we talked to him about he was talking to us about inflammation and this kind of whole body philosophy It’s very similar to the things that you’re talking. Is this you know, the all microbiome and the diagnostics that you’re talking about Can you see a day when this is going to be mainstream in dentistry? Or is this always going to be a specialist area within dentistry?
Victoria Sampson:
I think that there will be a bit of entry level, kind of mainstream testing. And then it will be kind of similar to the rest of the specialties where general dentists can do a lot of the maybe more simple side of things. And then when things get a bit more complicated, they refer on. I think that quantitative dentistry or salivary diagnostics
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
and being able to look in the saliva for inflammatory markers for bacteria
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Victoria Sampson:
for all
Andy & Chris:
I say
Victoria Sampson:
of these things
Andy & Chris:
what
Victoria Sampson:
anyone
Andy & Chris:
can you identify?
Victoria Sampson:
can do.
Andy & Chris:
Okay, what can you sort of identify? What diseases could you diabetes or something like that? Is that something you can come just thinking from an NHS point of view if? They could identify that Before I mean that would be a great one. I mean, we know the NHS we won’t even go about there, but it’s a great Preventative tool can it be you know amazing?
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah, well, I think 100% because, you know, we, one of the problems with healthcare in the UK, in my opinion, is that we often treat diseases before, you know, when it’s way too late and this
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Victoria Sampson:
is medical and dental. And part of the reason for that is that we’re not a preventative society. People don’t go to the doctor for a checkup. You know, they go
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
when they’re in pain and when they have problems. And whereas dentistry, we’re lucky. kind of, that patients do come in regularly for checkups and they
Andy & Chris:
It’s
Victoria Sampson:
should,
Andy & Chris:
true, isn’t it?
Victoria Sampson:
they know that they should
Andy & Chris:
Everybody
Victoria Sampson:
come
Andy & Chris:
thought
Victoria Sampson:
in
Andy & Chris:
about
Victoria Sampson:
regularly.
Andy & Chris:
it, actually.
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah. And so if we can actually relieve the load from the medical side of things by doing screening in the dental chair, then we could actually make, you know, we could reduce the cost of a lot of things on the NHS. So if we could screen for diabetes, vitamin D,
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
Um, you know, a lot of these, even osteoporosis, you can, there’s some, um, companies that are coming up with,
Andy & Chris:
Really?
Victoria Sampson:
um, yeah, with screening of dental X-rays, which has been able to tell you your risk of osteoporosis elsewhere in your body and those types of things.
Andy & Chris:
Ha
Victoria Sampson:
If
Andy & Chris:
ha.
Victoria Sampson:
you could screen patients and say to them that they have early osteoporosis before they fracture their hip, then you’re saving, you know, half a million pounds on that patient
Andy & Chris:
Yeah
Victoria Sampson:
for the NHS.
Andy & Chris:
Do you know it’s only just hit me that actually i’m 16 years old and actually it’s the first time i’ve really thought You’re right. We go and see the dentist every six months But we don’t go we don’t have a health checkup unless someone says why don’t you go and have a health checkup? Oh, you’re in pain. It is sort of really Counterintuitive and you should sort of be going it’s almost like you only go to the doctors because you think there’s something wrong Whereas you don’t only go to the dentist. Just stay well, you’re I never really thought about it But also I wonder whether the things you’re talking about may well start to be Driven by patient demand as well. So I’m thinking of you Tim. So Tim Spector with the Zoe Platform about food and diet and nutrition Yeah, that’s that there’s a craving among the population to understand more about what we eat and how it affects us and where we get Our energy from and how we can perform better And I wonder whether the things you’re talking about, if as people, as population, we start to understand the importance of our microbiome and we understand these diagnostics that help us understand more about our health and how our mouth affects us completely. If patients start requesting it, that may be a way that it starts to filter out into dentistry at a more rapid rate.
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah. So my, the kind of work that I’ve been doing over the past few years, um, is mainly patient driven. It’s definitely
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
not driven by the dental,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
um, industry because, you know, some people are starting to get where I’m coming from now and they’re like, okay, or, you know, they want to start doing microbiome testing, dentist wise. But, you know, for a long time, I was the first and the only person out there doing it. People thought I was weird or,
Andy & Chris:
And a bit
Victoria Sampson:
you
Andy & Chris:
cranky
Victoria Sampson:
know, stupid
Andy & Chris:
I’d imagine.
Victoria Sampson:
or. Yeah, a little bit just like, what is she doing? You know, it’s
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
been working all this time, like gums, I mean, a periodontal specialist, I’ve always been like, well, it works for me, so why do I have to change it? I’m like, well, it’s not really working because
Andy & Chris:
But we’re
Victoria Sampson:
you’re,
Andy & Chris:
always crazy
Victoria Sampson:
you know,
Andy & Chris:
until
Victoria Sampson:
you.
Andy & Chris:
everybody else starts doing it aren’t we?
Victoria Sampson:
Exactly. And so what was happening was that, you know, I was doing all of this stuff and then patients were the ones who were finding me. And then their friends would find me and all of a sudden I went from being, you know, not that busy dentist to being fully booked and like weeks in advance and people traveling from around the world to have their microbiome checked by me and to check their saliva. And that’s what then drove me to open my clinic was because It was just getting so busy and I could see that there was such a demand from patients
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
that it would have been silly not to do this.
Andy & Chris:
So what is, so you mentioned you’ve literally just opened your clinic as well with your sister, haven’t you? The Health Society
Victoria Sampson:
Yep.
Andy & Chris:
in Mayfair. So what’s the mix of services that you offer to patients? Is there a core general dentist element and then some of these diagnostic services alongside?
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah, so we do all the traditional dental stuff as well. But then we have add-ons. So we do oral microbiome testing. We have something called the full MOT. And so this is the most kind of in-depth oral check on the market. And what we do is we check your vitamin D levels, your blood glucose levels. We do an oral microbiome test. And then we also check your saliva for certain enzymes and the pH of your saliva too.
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
And that gives us a full insight into not only your oral health, but also can give us a connection with the rest of your health and maybe flag up things that need to be looked at in Mordita.
Andy & Chris:
Wow. And on your new patients. How many, in percentage terms, if you know, how many would be people who just sort of came because they saw a dentist or your SEO was dentist? And how many come because of the microbiome stuff? Is it mainly those people and then they become patients or is it sort of like half and half? Or do you know what I mean? Is there some people who just go, oh,
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
I’m just coming to the dentist. Oh, I didn’t know you did that. Rather than other people who’ve searched for you on that bit to write, I’m gonna do the diagnostic and then I’ll be a patient.
Victoria Sampson:
I think probably five to 10% are people who are just walking on the street and they just want a dentist
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Victoria Sampson:
and they don’t even know what we do. And the other 95 or 90% are people who call in and they say, I want an oral microbiome test. I want to see Victoria
Andy & Chris:
late.
Victoria Sampson:
or I want guided biofilm therapy. And so again, this is where it’s so patient driven. And
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Victoria Sampson:
I think that our generation, this new generation of patients are a lot. more educated
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
than maybe previously and they are searching, they know what they want, they will travel far for what they want as well.
Andy & Chris:
Wow any dentist listening flip. Yeah, and you get you get a fair Degree of referral some doctors as well. Don’t you they send their patients to you as well So there it sounds like perhaps the doctor and the medical profession is on board with this more quickly than the dental profession Would that be fair to say?
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah, so we, I get most of my referrals from nutritionists, doctors, functional practitioners, and they’re often not the easiest cases. It’s often not a healthy patient who’s just interested in their
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
mouth. It’s more patients who are suffering from maybe other chronic inflammatory diseases, or, you know, they’re going through a lot of treatment like chemotherapy or whatnot, and they need a lot more support during that. Um, so yeah, the majority, you’re right. I think the medical side of the profession has kind of been like, oh, wait, this kind of makes sense. And I think
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
that with the diagnostics that we do, um, it’s stuff that doctors can understand, whereas
Andy & Chris:
I’m out.
Victoria Sampson:
previously, you know, if, if we were doing, um, you know, pocket charting or we were just
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
doing our own dental, we’ve got a little dental bubble and we use our own terminologies and it’s all
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Victoria Sampson:
very qualitative. And. you know, no one outside of the dental world really understands what we’re doing. And I think that’s where the lack of trust from patients comes from. And also the lack of appreciation from the medical world, because they just don’t get it. They’re like, okay, whatever. Like they’re, they’re like doing a skill and polish. Like
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
what it’s not that important. But then when you start saying, actually, this patient has high levels of, um, bad bacteria in their mouth. Their saliva is very acidic. Um, you know, they have high levels of inflammatory markers. then everyone is like, oh that makes sense, okay that’s not good,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
how do I change that?
Andy & Chris:
It’s visionary in a way, isn’t it? You know, it’s so unbelievable. You have that your title at the top, you know, DJ
Victoria Sampson:
Ha
Andy & Chris:
visionary.
Victoria Sampson:
ha. Visionary.
Andy & Chris:
I think for me, what’s I guess challenging as well is setting up a squat dental practice is not an easy thing to do, which is why most people buy an established dental practice, because they just take somebody else’s hard work and they build on that. But they don’t have to start with a blank piece of paper. You and your sister didn’t just have a blank piece of paper. You didn’t even have a piece of paper because you’ve created a practice that kind of didn’t really exist before. How challenging was that to establish a squat dental practice with a suite of services that you kind of couldn’t really Google because it’s such a new area. But to focus through that. I did have a paper of B in the BDJ. Yes. I could wave, yeah. How was that?
Victoria Sampson:
Um, it was, it’s probably been one of the most difficult years of my life. Um, but also one of the most rewarding, I think, um, you’re right, because we didn’t have even the CQC, for example, when they came to give it to, to inspect us, some of our services they’d never heard of before, and they didn’t even, they were like, we have an infrared sauna in our clinic, so we haven’t a full infrared sauna downstairs. We have a personal training suite, you know, all of this. And. the CQC was like, what the hell? Like, we don’t understand this. And
Andy & Chris:
Slay
Victoria Sampson:
so, you
Andy & Chris:
it.
Victoria Sampson:
know, and imagine them, they are the, our regulatory body and they don’t understand what we’re doing.
Andy & Chris:
Mmm.
Victoria Sampson:
But
Andy & Chris:
Did
Victoria Sampson:
yeah,
Andy & Chris:
you?
Victoria Sampson:
it was, oh yeah, sorry.
Andy & Chris:
I was going to say, did you have to approach a bank for finance?
Victoria Sampson:
Um, so no, we actually didn’t.
Andy & Chris:
Oh, okay.
Victoria Sampson:
We, we, um,
Andy & Chris:
I just imagine
Victoria Sampson:
well,
Andy & Chris:
the bank
Victoria Sampson:
we wanted
Andy & Chris:
manager trying
Victoria Sampson:
to.
Andy & Chris:
to work that one out.
Victoria Sampson:
We wanted to, but it was difficult because
Andy & Chris:
Yeah,
Victoria Sampson:
they didn’t understand what we
Andy & Chris:
yeah
Victoria Sampson:
were doing.
Andy & Chris:
I was gonna say I can’t, I would have thought they wouldn’t know what you’re on about.
Victoria Sampson:
No, and we had no business knowledge beforehand. We don’t have any other businesses. Um, so basically all of our savings have been put into this. So
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Victoria Sampson:
this is everything that we’ve worked for has just been put into this clinic. And we’ve had a lot of help from a lot of the dental, um, companies, um, that we work for. You know, I’m an ambassador and key opinion leader for a couple of companies and they’ve been awesome and like here, you know, we’ll give you this for. for free for six months and pay us back later, you know, things like that,
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Victoria Sampson:
which really helped us.
Andy & Chris:
But also not just financial help, it really validates the work you’re doing and the direction you’re going in. If people aren’t supporting you, you’re like, okay, are we doing the right thing here? Whereas I think sometimes support that’s non-financial is as important as financial. And I get you need an amount of money to set a practice up, but if people are backing you and rooting for you, on those days when you wake up and it’s raining and wet and cold and you have to drag your backside out of bed and you don’t really want to, it gives you that sense of purpose that there’s other people, for you.
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah, I think that also really gave us that validation that we needed because as you said, I mean, for seven or eight months, I was working full time in two dental practices from nine to seven or eight to six every day. And then going to a construction site before work during my lunch and after work every day, including Saturdays and Sundays. So I
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
was dead. And the only thing that was giving me a little bit of motivation was patients who kept on
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
emailing and asking when the next slot was available. And these companies, which were so supportive that they were willing to
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Victoria Sampson:
invest or to, to not be paid for months because they believed in our vision. And they were like, actually, you know what, like this girl is not, you know, she knows what she’s doing. She has a good idea. Let’s support that.
Andy & Chris:
There’s big trust in a young person. I don’t mean that rudely but do you know what
Victoria Sampson:
Hahaha!
Andy & Chris:
I mean? Yeah. Yeah, you are young isn’t it? You know, it’s probably hundreds of thousands of pounds invested in someone that think yeah She’s obviously got something about you that carries people. I think what’s fascinating as well as there’s two things that stood out your friend Um insisted as your wedding present that you were dj for her Which sparked your interest in being a dj and you’ve carried it through your life and as a result of covid you decided to write your Aura Microbiome paper to say, actually there’s issues here and people with COVID may suffer greater problems. And it’s funny how you really take those situations and turn them to your advantage. Because like you say, lots of people could have said no to the DJ set and they’d still be in their bedroom and you might have been amazing at making banana bread, but instead you submitted a paper to the BDJ. But the thing is that kind of sparked this interest in the area that has now led you to have your own practice. So it’s amazing that you know, you didn’t have to do those things but as a result of doing them You’re kind of your path is now significantly different to many other dentists. I’m just thinking what you can do for the next 30 years Big expectations. I hope we haven’t peaked too early Victoria for goodness sake You’re
Victoria Sampson:
Honestly, maybe I will. I’m going to pack up and go and in a couple of years time,
Andy & Chris:
gonna get
Victoria Sampson:
then
Andy & Chris:
to
Victoria Sampson:
I’m
Andy & Chris:
30
Victoria Sampson:
going to be a DJ.
Andy & Chris:
and say no I’ve had enough. Yeah, yeah, well maybe that’s
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
it. Yeah Yeah, I know it’s still fairly early days in the practice has not long since been open but what? What are the myths of only a dental practice? What are the things that people assume it is? And what’s the brutal reality of only a practice? And can we throw in highs and lows in there? Yeah. Yeah, highs and lows.
Victoria Sampson:
squat practice or just general opening your own clinic?
Andy & Chris:
Both, both or either.
Victoria Sampson:
So I think generally dentists are not trained at all to open their own practice. We have no financial, as in, you know, when we’re at university no one teaches us about finances, about applying for loans or any of this, but also the nursing side of things. I have the most phenomenal. head nurse and if it wasn’t for her, or maybe if she’s listening, shout out, especially if she’s probably in the room next door, but if it wasn’t for her and her knowledge and her help, this practice wouldn’t have been what it is now. And that’s because as a dentist, we learn, we are dentists. And we actually, sometimes I don’t think fully appreciate what our nurses do for us. Even, you know, I didn’t know. the difference between like autoclaves about like a vacuum and a non-vac autoclave. I didn’t know all of this. Like I sounded so stupid when I was ordering some of this stuff. And I remember calling Dee up and being like, do I do I need an ultrasonic bath? Like, what is it? And, you know, and it’s like now I laugh at it because I know everything about it. But I think that for anyone opening their dental practice, you either need to learn all of this yourself or you need to have
Andy & Chris:
That’s
Victoria Sampson:
an
Andy & Chris:
really
Victoria Sampson:
awesome
Andy & Chris:
interesting.
Victoria Sampson:
nurse on your side.
Andy & Chris:
And you’re not taught that at dental school.
Victoria Sampson:
No, no, I mean, we’re taught, you know, disinfection or like, no, not really. Like I would not have known how to work an autoclave and to, um, you know, clean my instruments in an ultrasonic. I would have absolutely no idea.
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Victoria Sampson:
Or, or how to clean the chair after a day has finished, you know, what, what liquids to use
Andy & Chris:
Myah.
Victoria Sampson:
or when to clean it and how to take the filters out. Like, no, cause dentists are known for, they stroll in. five minutes before their
Andy & Chris:
Ha
Victoria Sampson:
first patient,
Andy & Chris:
ha ha,
Victoria Sampson:
and
Andy & Chris:
go back
Victoria Sampson:
then they
Andy & Chris:
man.
Victoria Sampson:
leave two minutes before the patient’s left. You know, like that was me for the past four or five years. I had no idea what was going on behind the scenes.
Andy & Chris:
And that’s the thing as an associate with a good nurse, you can operate like that. You’re there to deliver clinical dentistry and your nurse is doing all these things in the background. But as a practice owner, you need to understand it because you need to all do the equipment, the materials, you need to understand the process. You’re gonna be the person who’s gonna be preparing the documentation to make sure you get through your CQC process. So I get you need to understand a lot more. How do you ever evolve and ever refine if you don’t actually know what you’re supposed to be doing? On the finance side of things, We’re starting to work with dental schools. We’re starting to try and do some work to educate people on the basics of, of business finance. Cause I think you’re right. I think that’s a massive gap. And you know, if, if dentists just say as an associate, just understanding the tax they have to pay and what the numbers look like, it’s, it’s really important because I think if you understand
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
the numbers, it makes you an incredibly valuable associate. If all you do is turn up and do your dentistry, don’t give me one from a patient care point of view, it’s an outstanding, but you’re not as valuable as a business person in a practice. to do some seminars about buying a dental practice. And I always remember we’d said to people, what normally happens is you come out of dental school, you do your FD, then you start earning money, and then you all go and buy a Porsche. And it was quite funny, we had a room about 30 people and about 12 people reached forward and took their keys off their desk and put them in their pocket, because they obviously all owned Porsches. It was
Victoria Sampson:
Ha ha.
Andy & Chris:
like, there we go, I think that’s the answer for that one. They’d all done that. Victoria, I’m conscious of time, and I know you have clinic this afternoon. And lunch. It’s been a fascinating conversation and honestly I’m so pleased for you and I’m so excited to see what this looks like over the next two, three, five, ten years and whether it becomes kind of the core to dentistry because it’s a really, as a non-clinician I find it a fascinating area. You haven’t done bad for a young one have you really? I mean in that first night, flipping it. Yeah, very impressive. Very, very impressive. But we can’t let you leave just yet because we have to ask you two questions before you can go and treat your patients. And the first question we’ve got for you is if you could be a fly on a wall in a situation, when would that be and where would you be if you were given the opportunity? And you can’t use the CQC wondering what a infrared bath thing was.
Victoria Sampson:
I actually, you know what, I knew that this question was coming and I was thinking about it for so long and I still didn’t come up with an answer because it’s like. This is impossible.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah
Victoria Sampson:
Fly on a wall in a situation. Okay. I’m taking it completely different. The Berlin Wall, when it was being broken down.
Andy & Chris:
Okay,
Victoria Sampson:
During,
Andy & Chris:
yeah, yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
yeah, totally different, but I think that would have been pretty wild when East and West Germany were reunited. So that’s
Andy & Chris:
Oh.
Victoria Sampson:
a wall that I would wanna be a fly on.
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, that would be very cool. I did a tour of Berlin couple years ago and the guy who took us on our walking tour He takes you in front of the is it Brandenburg Gate? And that’s where one of the wall was and he then shows a picture of himself on top of the Berlin wall On the night that it was gonna come down and I was thinking flip Can
Victoria Sampson:
Wow.
Andy & Chris:
you imagine if you’d have been there at that moment in time? What would that have felt like you know, and he then got a
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
bit of wall out of his pocket He said, you know, and then we break the wall down. That’s like
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
in. And our follow-up question is if you could meet somebody, if you were given the opportunity to meet somebody and sit down and have a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, who would you like to meet?
Victoria Sampson:
Alive or dead.
Andy & Chris:
either or fictional.
Victoria Sampson:
Um, someone I would like to have a coffee with would be, okay, right now, speaking of what we were talking about earlier, it’s Tim Spector. I
Andy & Chris:
Yes.
Victoria Sampson:
really want to meet him and I, if he’s listening out, then
Andy & Chris:
I’m gonna go to bed.
Victoria Sampson:
please come to my clinic, but, um, I just think that he has done a crazy
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Victoria Sampson:
thing for, for health and he’s making personalized,
Andy & Chris:
Shall I just
Victoria Sampson:
um,
Andy & Chris:
give him a call?
Victoria Sampson:
medicine. Please do personalize medicine. I think he’s making it accessible to
Andy & Chris:
Hmm.
Victoria Sampson:
everyone. And I think that the next step would be dentistry. I mean, I want to do something similar to that, or,
Andy & Chris:
Yeah.
Victoria Sampson:
you know, like that’s the future.
Andy & Chris:
Wow.
Victoria Sampson:
And I think that
Andy & Chris:
Mm.
Victoria Sampson:
he’s incredible as a result.
Andy & Chris:
I think what’s interesting is that in some ways there’s some parallels with his work and your work because he was behind
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
the COVID app, the COVID app that everybody was filling in every day saying whether they felt well and that’s how that data built. And I think that was kind of the thing that sparked off Zoe. So in many ways, how things have gone in the direction for him and how things have gone with you. At some point, it’d be quite nice if it did come together. Yeah, visionary.
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah.
Andy & Chris:
I’ll go back to visionary. I think you’re a bit of a visionary on what you want to achieve. It’s amazing. Victoria,
Victoria Sampson:
I’m
Andy & Chris:
thank
Victoria Sampson:
sorry.
Andy & Chris:
you for your time. It’s been wonderful. It’s been a great conversation. And I think if we come back and have this same conversation in two or three years time It is gonna look and sound completely different. So it’s gonna be fascinating
Victoria Sampson:
Yeah
Andy & Chris:
Yeah, we should probably book it in Exactly
Victoria Sampson:
Hehehehehehe
Andy & Chris:
exactly, but no, we really appreciate your time today. It’s great and Look forward to seeing you. I think we’re both going to the next dental collective in a month or so
Victoria Sampson:
Yes,
Andy & Chris:
So
Victoria Sampson:
yes,
Andy & Chris:
look forward
Victoria Sampson:
exactly.
Andy & Chris:
to seeing you then. Yeah, brilliant. Thank
Victoria Sampson:
Amazing,
Andy & Chris:
you. Thank you for your
Victoria Sampson:
all
Andy & Chris:
time.
Victoria Sampson:
right, well,
Andy & Chris:
Look
Victoria Sampson:
thanks
Andy & Chris:
after yourself.
Victoria Sampson:
for having me.
Andy & Chris:
Cheers Victoria
Victoria Sampson:
Bye.
